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View Full Version : Viewing/Editing Bone Up Tags In Modeler?



Giacomo99
09-20-2006, 11:24 AM
Hello-

I'm trying to create a proper rig using Skelegons in Modeler (following Larry Shultz's "Bone Tools" DVD).

It seems having the Bone-Up Tags oriented properly is very important. However: 1) I can't even make the tags visible again once I've drawn the chain and deselected it and 2) I'm not at all sure what the general method is for drawing bones so the tags are properly located.

(This has caused enormous problems so far in my attempts to rig a fully-articulated human--when Skelegons are converted to bones, they create such enormous gimbal-lock problems that I basically can't do anything with the model.)

Please advise.

GM

Edit: Never mind. It's under "Edit Skelegons."

SplineGod
09-20-2006, 09:31 PM
I would use the bone tools in layout. I would also just rig in layout as well :)

Giacomo99
09-22-2006, 02:03 PM
Larrr-rrrry!!! ARGH! ;) Why are you telling me this NOW? I've spent a LOT of time trying to absorb the first two videos on your "Bone Tools" DVD, and you dare to basically tell me, "oh, never mind?" ;)

Learning to rig in LW has been MUCH harder than I feel it should be, due in no small part to the available tutorials, which are incomplete and confusing. (I have Dan Ablan's LW 6, 7, and 8 books (which include some of his 3DGarage videos), Timothy Albee's "Lightwave 8 Character Animation," and your own "Bone Tools" DVD. The simple fact is that NONE of these sources cover, start-to-finish, the construction of a simple FK rig for a human figure.)

I imagine the reason for this omission is that building such a rig is presumed to be so easy that it's below discussion, but that's simply not the case. For example, there are ENORMOUS differences between building a rig using skelegons and building a rig in Layout--(like the "bone-up tags" issue and the far greater ease of setting up skelegons) and it would've been really nice if I could've avoided learning it the hard way, especially since I paid money for instructional materials written by purported experts.

Hopefully I'll have time to write my own tutorial in the near future and spare others what I've been through myself.

SplineGod
09-22-2006, 05:03 PM
The bone tools DVD isnt intended as a tutorial on rigging. Its to demonstrate how the bone tools work. Also a 3 hour video is not nearly enough time to really teach rigging . I do have very thorough rigging tutorials that cover the topic in depth and includes support. The rigging section of my Professional character series is about 21 hours long. Ive updated some of the rigging material to reflect the new tools in LW9 and that alone is 10 hrs long. These videos DO cover rigging a human character from start to finish in great detail.

What I do first is show what I call the 12 principles of rigging - what a rig must be able to do to be a good rig. Those principles are the same in any 3d application. I then go thru a finished rig and show how each of those principles are implemented. After that I start at the ground and work my way to the head showing multiple ways in LW to make the rig conform to those 12 principles. Ive yet to see other rigging material cover the topic in that way or in the same depth.

Much of the confusion youre experiencing comes from people showing different ways of rigging. Some of those sources you mentioned are from experienced riggers/animators and some arent. A real simple way to determine who is experienced with rigging or not is to see what character work theyve done in the past. I know Timothy is a pretty experienced character guy and Ive also done it for years.

The differences between rigging in layout and modeler are significant but not enormous. I feel that its generally easier to rig in layout for a number or reasons. One reason I do cover skelegons is because they are part of LW and deserve discussion and some people simply use them as a matter of personal preference.

If you see a rig or a demonstration of a rig where the joints pop, flip or exhibits other instabilities thats a bad rig plain and simple. A good rig will exhibit none of those.

Heres a demo of a couple of rigs that I cover in two tutorials:
The first is from my fundamentals of rigging (10 hrs)
http://www.3dtrainingonline.com/examples/char_rig_demo.zip
and this second one is from my Rigging a Quadruped DVD.
http://www.3dtrainingonline.com/rig_demo.mov

My Professional Character Series is over 80 hrs of material and is being updated. The first update is the fundamentals of rigging.
http://www.3dtrainingonline.com/professionalcharacterseries.htm

Fundamentals of Rigging (LW9) is here:
http://www.3dtrainingonline.com/fundamentals_of_rigging_vol1.html
(This is on special at the moment)

Rigging a Quadruped is here:
http://www.3dtrainingonline.com/rigging_a_quadruped.html
http://www.3dtrainingonline.com/rigging_a_quadruped.htm

stib
09-25-2006, 07:47 AM
In the setup tab in modeller under the skelegons menu (I'm not sure your menus will look like this - I've got a modified version of the Studio setup going here) there should be a command called rotate skelegons. that's the fella you're after. Click and drag on the blue circle at the base of the skelegon, or use the numeric panel. The bone up tag is aligned with the Pitch axis (? maybe ? - correct me if I'm wrong somebody).