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moc
09-18-2006, 01:53 PM
yup,,
when?
Can we see Alpha map,multi-layer map,layer blending,real transparency....etc?

digital verve
09-18-2006, 02:32 PM
Yes. I am looking forward to no longer waiting a few seconds for Modeler viewports to update on each rotate attempt of my hi-poly object.:)

Before Christmas would be nice :santa:

KillMe
09-18-2006, 02:41 PM
suppost to be the next release i believe - though i cant recall where i heard that - anyway jsut wish they would hurry up and give it to me

Matt
09-18-2006, 02:59 PM
The idea is to bring Modeler OGL inline with Layout OGL, currently they work in different ways.

As far as I'm aware that's what they (NT) are doing, and they're working on now.

ANS
09-18-2006, 03:57 PM
yup,,
when?
Can we see Alpha map,multi-layer map,layer blending,real transparency....etc?

this will happen one day after release Duke Nukem Forever. :devil: :ohmy:

Cheers!

Bliz
09-19-2006, 01:15 AM
According to this month's 3DWorld magazine;

"...Newtek have unveiled details of it's next free update codenamed 'Ithaca' & not assigned a specific point number yet, features are expected to include...[snip]...improved OPenGL capability in Modeler...[snip]...The update is expected to ship imminently"

Phil
09-19-2006, 02:55 AM
Ah. So that has been the main cause of the delay - choosing the cool codename ;D

*ducks and runs*

parazis
09-19-2006, 03:14 AM
You've got it, thats a point :)

evenflcw
09-19-2006, 04:23 AM
Great name, only took Odysseus 10 years to get there. I guess we are the monsters he met along the way. Looking forward to it. Thanks for the update.

Phil
09-19-2006, 04:32 AM
Not sure what use the codenames are. It would mean something if Alt+About would show a different codename-themed splash screen, I guess (like Adobe's products - sometimes this is the most innovative element in their 'upgrades')

parazis
09-19-2006, 04:50 AM
It's all about marketing stuff I believe. There's no that kind of codenames if you take a look at some free software for example. So, marketing rules ;)

evenflcw
09-19-2006, 04:52 AM
Well, I don't think the codenames are for us in the first place. It's for internal use. Using codenames they don't have to decide the version number yet; codenames are probably nicer to talk about than keeping track of version numbers (was it 9.01, 9.0b or 9.1?); and it's probably more inspirational aswell. I sometimes come up with funny names for my own scripts just to lighten the load abit.

parazis
09-19-2006, 05:50 AM
Well, I don't think the codenames are for us in the first place. It's for internal use. Using codenames they don't have to decide the version number yet; codenames are probably nicer to talk about than keeping track of version numbers (was it 9.01, 9.0b or 9.1?); and it's probably more inspirational aswell. I sometimes come up with funny names for my own scripts just to lighten the load abit.

It may be a case. But if I read in a magazine someone tells stories about coming version called codename blah blah blah, I think it is the marketing stuff.

aurora
09-19-2006, 10:02 AM
next free update codenamed 'Ithaca'

Thats kinda scarey for me. The name of the No-Ship from 'Hunters of Dune' is named the Ithaca and its always running and hiding! Heck it even left the known universe for a few years. I sure hope the naming of this deve cycle is not related to Dune's Ithaca.

shrox
09-19-2006, 10:19 AM
Great name, only took Odysseus 10 years to get there. I guess we are the monsters he met along the way. Looking forward to it. Thanks for the update.

People must have lived longer back then...Penelope was still a hottie when he got back.

iainbyoung
09-19-2006, 10:23 AM
Code names usually mean nothing. They are just plucked out of the air by someone so they can easily identify the project being worked on. We use them all the time for our software projects.

Bog
09-19-2006, 11:22 AM
Ah. So that has been the main cause of the delay - choosing the cool codename

Delay? What in the name of Murgatroyd's pimply aunt are you talking about? 9 only shipped a couple of months ago!

Ithaca's also one of the oldest designs of pump-action shotgun still in production (he says, having a chance to get a bit of Battlefield 1942 in for the first time in weeks)

iconoclasty
09-19-2006, 11:47 AM
this will happen one day after release Duke Nukem Forever. :devil: :ohmy:

Cheers!

LOL that game's been in development for like 8 years.

Phil
09-19-2006, 12:50 PM
Delay? What in the name of Murgatroyd's pimply aunt are you talking about? 9 only shipped a couple of months ago!

Ithaca's also one of the oldest designs of pump-action shotgun still in production (he says, having a chance to get a bit of Battlefield 1942 in for the first time in weeks)

Errrr. That's long enough to at least get a hot fix or two out for the issues like 'object is read only' and Nodal dropping connections in complex networks, or at least it should be. I'm not after the new features so much, but there are glaring breakages, including in LScript that are very overdue for fixes. Modeler also is very fond of crashing after adding plugins - something that boggles the mind after it survives large objects being thrown around. What's more, after it crashes, the hub insists that the process is still running so it cannot itself be quit, meaning a trip to the task manager.

This is why I'd like to see the fixes provided unbundled from feature additions. I really want bug fixes right now, nothing else. 9.0.1 with the fixes above and any others they have around would make me much happier than any number of new features at the moment.

There are also numerous infrastructure issues with the OpenBeta that need to be fixed, but there's no sign of movement there, either. *grumble*

RedBull
09-19-2006, 01:23 PM
Modeler also is very fond of crashing after adding plugins - something that boggles the mind after it survives large objects being thrown around. What's more, after it crashes, the hub insists that the process is still running so it cannot itself be quit, meaning a trip to the task manager.

There are also numerous infrastructure issues with the OpenBeta that need to be fixed, but there's no sign of movement there, either. *grumble*

The Modeler crashing after adding plugins is quite fixable, it's just a config issue. I was having that trouble until i removed all configs from my directory,
now it installs and has no problems or crashes....

Phil
09-19-2006, 02:19 PM
That isn't what I'd call a fix in any real sense. I haven't edited these configs in notepad, or pulled them from Open Beta. These are all configs generated from 9.0, based on the Production setup - with custom tabs to handle addons and frequently used commands.

Nothing but Modeler's own systems have touched these config files and yet somehow, if your suggestion is true, it manages to stuff them up so badly that the 'fix' is do blow them away and reinvest substantial time in adding plugins and rebuilding the custom tabs.

This isn't a fix. This is a workaround. A fix would mean Modeler would not break its own config files on a whim.

I'm fairly irritated that we have to resort to accepting workarounds for fundamental software flaws. I just don't think that's acceptable in software that is touting reliability as one of the key features in its new incarnation. It even breaks if you add NewTek's own plugins - it's not even something that they can blame on 3rd party hacks.

Bog
09-19-2006, 02:27 PM
Cursed if you do, cursed if you don't. Get a 9.0a out that *just* fixes a few bugs, and people will be shouting "OOHHhhhh, well WHERE'S THE REST? You promised $feature, $feature and $feature! I'm buying XSI instead! Nyeah!"

Wait a while and drop a 9.ithaca and people will be shouting "Is this all we get for three months wait? Tsch! I'm buying 3DStudio because I love the feeling of shoving both hands into a bucket of rusty razorblades"

I do empathise. Sadly, I empathise with both us the users, and with NewTek.

I'm boned....!

Bog
09-19-2006, 03:27 PM
What state or situation is one in, when one is "boned"?

Not as desirable as the state of unbonedness, I'm afraid.

Thing is, I see NewTek as a group of colleagues. These are the people who have helped me craft my livelihood. These guys - and their efforts since I was, frankly, in short pants, have given me the vehicle upon which to build a comfortable, happy, creative life. I see how they work with me - and every other LightWaver. I see the efforts they put in, the lengths they go to.

I cannot not empathise with them. ****, some of the buggers there I count as close, personal friends.

And at the same time, I'm a hard end user. Deep in the groove, working like a sod against imperfect toolsets. I feel it every time I open the Surface Editor and have to scroll down to get back to the surface name I'd just created.

So yeah. Boned. :)

kmaas
09-19-2006, 06:05 PM
...You promised $feature, $feature and $feature!

PHP programmer?

RedBull
09-19-2006, 10:36 PM
Nothing but Modeler's own systems have touched these config files and yet somehow, if your suggestion is true, it manages to stuff them up so badly that the 'fix' is do blow them away and reinvest substantial time in adding plugins and rebuilding the custom tabs.

You can save the menus and keyboard configs so i don't see that as a problem, maintainence is somewhat a standard thing to do and i have all my plugins in a directory so i can scan 1 directory, and load 1000 plugins all at once. So it's a fairly quick process (less than 30 seconds to restore everything as it was, and now i'm crash freee, so i ain't complaining.


This isn't a fix. This is a workaround. A fix would mean Modeler would not break its own config files on a whim.

I'm fairly irritated that we have to resort to accepting workarounds for fundamental software flaws. I just don't think that's acceptable in software that is touting reliability as one of the key features in its new incarnation. It even breaks if you add NewTek's own plugins - it's not even something that they can blame on 3rd party hacks.

Well for myself it doesn't break if i add plugins, that's why i mentioned it.

Not saying that LW and Modeler don't have issues, but for myself,
this is an extremely fixable and minor issue that i fixed once, and don't have it as an issue any longer. I could name dozens of other issues i'd like to see fixed though...

UnCommonGrafx
09-19-2006, 10:45 PM
Calmly going to bed now... with a bit of agreement...

Been adding plugins all day with the expected crash following. It's obviously disconcerting; however, the ONE good thing in this add&crash scenario is that it at least remembers that and what you've added so that you don't have to go through again like an insane person hoping it sticks. {think smile or frowney here}

Yes, other issues are more important... This one is just an annoyance. Hmm, it's also what 'should/would' happen in a perfect world: modeler would ask to be shut down to "...Save the config as you've added plugins?" Hmm, maybe it's a feature in hiding.

Oh boy, I know I need to go to bed. Nitey nite.

RedBull
09-19-2006, 11:17 PM
Calmly going to bed now... with a bit of agreement...

Been adding plugins all day with the expected crash following. It's obviously disconcerting; however, the ONE good thing in this add&crash scenario is that it at least remembers that and what you've added so that you don't have to go through again like an insane person hoping it sticks. {think smile or frowney here}

Yes, other issues are more important... This one is just an annoyance. Hmm, it's also what 'should/would' happen in a perfect world: modeler would ask to be shut down to "...Save the config as you've added plugins?" Hmm, maybe it's a feature in hiding.

Oh boy, I know I need to go to bed. Nitey nite.

Seems stupid to put up with it crashing all day when the problem can be solved and fixed permanently within seconds.... But maybe it's just me?

I believe as you mention LW has been updated in LW9, i no longer lose KB/menu assignments or new plugin additions when i crash. I no longer have to close LW down to ensure it saves to the configs. So this is helpful to myself. So it shouldn't require the confirmation, any more.

But still clearing those configs a few weeks back has seen the Modeler crash disappear. So i'll shutup and let others complain about it... :)

Phil
09-19-2006, 11:42 PM
These configs were freshly generated when 9.0 final/rc23 shipped. That's 'only' 8 weeks or so ago. Yet you had to regenerate them 2-3 weeks ago. That's not exactly a good thing, is it? If they break again in 4 weeks, will you still be happy?

Again, the only cause of the files being potentially wrong is due to Modeler doing something wrong. I'm not keen on spending hours rejigging everything to find that either it doesn't improve the situation or that, a week or so down the road, I have to rejig them again. This doesn't count as a fix. I'm certainly not expecting your 'fix' to be permanent in any respect as Modeler will very likely still mung your config files in the next few weeks.

My 'fix' has been to add plugins via Layout, which hasn't had a single problem dealing with this. I don't really count this as a fix, either, mind you. It's a workaround or hack.

If exporting and reimporting the menus work fine, then I'm stumped as to how the files are mangled in the first place, mind you. I'd expect either or both to fail.

For me, autoscan is not an option. I have a large 3rdparty folder with subfolders and versioned plugins (to work around bugs in newer older versions). Autoscan doesn't/cannot see plugin version information (should it exist), so I'm never sure what the end result will be. Readding plugins from this structure is a nightmare, but maintenance at the filesystem level is much, much easier.

*shrug*

Besides, we're still well overdue for a fix to the the 'read only object' problem as well - something that is immensely irritating to many. It's not just about Modeler's config files.

UnCommonGrafx
09-20-2006, 06:16 AM
Hmm, are you saying that it's stupid to be using LW? Or, stupid that I have to put up with rebuilding configs every few weeks or so?

These configs are about 2 or 3 weeks old. It's not something I'm doing to make modeler crash. I'm just a 'stupid' user, afterall.
Mayhaps it is stupid, no, insane to continue to do something and yet still expect better...

I have a "settings" directory where I keep current, ongoing kb/menu setups. That isn't an issue. What is an issue is when a cool new plugin is obtained and I do the insane by using something that has been rock solid for 8 years or more and expect it to work like that, rock solidly, still. Even with new configs.

C'est la guerre.


Seems stupid to put up with it crashing all day when the problem can be solved and fixed permanently within seconds.... But maybe it's just me?

I believe as you mention LW has been updated in LW9, i no longer lose KB/menu assignments or new plugin additions when i crash. I no longer have to close LW down to ensure it saves to the configs. So this is helpful to myself. So it shouldn't require the confirmation, any more.

But still clearing those configs a few weeks back has seen the Modeler crash disappear. So i'll shutup and let others complain about it... :)

RedBull
09-20-2006, 02:39 PM
These configs were freshly generated when 9.0 final/rc23 shipped. That's 'only' 8 weeks or so ago. Yet you had to regenerate them 2-3 weeks ago. That's not exactly a good thing, is it? If they break again in 4 weeks, will you still be happy?

They won't... Look dude i was trying to give you a head up on a solution to your problem you keep complaining about it fixes it so it doesn't crash anymore.. Apart from that go complain to someone else... I don't care....

You should rebuild or start with clean configs after a new build is installed.If the configs were made by a Beta version, but now working with a production version, than are you really surprised of crashes?
Do you use LW9 Beta plugins in your production LW9 production version?
This is why the crash occurs because it's a Beta config....

My 'fix' has been to add plugins via Layout, which hasn't had a single problem dealing with this. I don't really count this as a fix, either, mind you. It's a workaround or hack.

Hehehehe, yeah cleaning the configs is such a chore in comparison.... LOL.....


For me, autoscan is not an option. I have a large 3rdparty folder with subfolders and versioned plugins (to work around bugs in newer older versions). Autoscan doesn't/cannot see plugin version information (should it exist), so I'm never sure what the end result will be. Readding plugins from this structure is a nightmare, but maintenance at the filesystem level is much, much easier.

I also use a 3rd party folder for plugins, and have no problems...
But hey have fun with your crashing and complaining on forums then..


Besides, we're still well overdue for a fix to the the 'read only object' problem as well

Dunno what the readobject problem is, but it has not affected me personally...
You never know maybe fixing the configs, will fix the problem.... ;)

My apoligies, i'll just continue without Modeler crashing, and laugh at the others complaining rather than looking for solutions.....