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View Full Version : LW9 and Norton Internet Security 2k6 locks



Bog
09-03-2006, 05:20 PM
Is it just me, or are almost all modeler lock-ups NIS2k6's fault? I put LW9 on my shiny new box, and acknowledged all the "This software is trying to run! Shall I lock the machine solid for you?" warnings.

Then the machine kept locking solid.

NIS2k6. Doesn't like LightWave on my machine one bit. AVG and Windows Firewall seem fine with it. Is anyone else having unannounced, pointless lock-up issues?

palpal
09-03-2006, 05:52 PM
I have made an interface for the new norman anti virus software, do not know if it is out with my new interface, but I have run norman for years now without any problems at all. It is really good, even that I have made the interface, but again if it suck interface vise my new interface is not out yet! I never got any wrongs with it, even with my 27 node network!

yours PAL :beerchug:

habaņero
09-04-2006, 12:18 AM
I was on a ship this summer and everyone had laptops that they complained about "was slow". Like this one machine with a P4 3 ghz, I cpu benchmarked it and it measured in as a p III 700 mhz. "Something must be wrong" I said to myself, "lets try and uninstall norton AV". Thusly done, it measured in as a normal P4 again. Then I did so for the other laptops and installed AVG instead, and they became fast as well, The end.

Wonderpup
09-04-2006, 02:33 AM
I've had the same experience- Norton just killed my machine. I've switched to Avast and it runs normaly now. It's ironic but Norton was causing me more problems than the viruses I bought it to get rid of.

iainbyoung
09-04-2006, 03:17 AM
Part of the reason that AVG is quick, is that it's actually pretty rubbish as an antivirus, (I've seen loads of virus riddled machines that avg hasn't picked up). Norton does a decent job, but it's very resource hungry and is a little buggy. I've heard very good things about Kapersky and Avast...

Nicolas Jordan
09-05-2006, 10:51 PM
I had plenty of problems with Norton Anti Virus too. So I finally just got rid of it and I opted to back up regularly and scan with HouseCall once every month or so.

mav3rick
09-06-2006, 01:01 AM
try to specify in norton to execlude lw from blocklist... for exampkle NOD 32 has that option.. i had isssues with race simulator RFACTOR and i found out it was NOD32 makin me problems... than i execluded rfactor dir from list of nod 32 and all was OK later

iainbyoung
09-06-2006, 12:56 PM
I'm not using Norton any more, but I did have it running in conjunction with lw8.5 without any problems. All I did was add the hub, modeler, and layout executables to the allowed (i.e. not blocked) list and the firewall just ignores it.

Bog
09-06-2006, 04:33 PM
try to specify in norton to execlude lw from blocklist... f

Yeah, did that. Modeler, Hub and Layout all in the Clear List - sadly, I just couldn't be bothered to track down every last darn .DLL which was being called. F'rexample, LWCAD2 seems to address various chunks of code from different places, which sets Norton into "Learning Mode"

That'd be called "Locking solid and taking the whole OS file management system with it". Windows Firewall and Avast it is, then.

iainbyoung
09-06-2006, 04:45 PM
Windows Firewall and Avast it is, then.

Ooo nasty. I hope you're not expecting it to block intrusions etc, (windows firewall really isn't very good)...

Bog
09-06-2006, 05:19 PM
Well, I'm NATted behind a Cisco firewalled hub as well, which is behind a whitelisted cable modem. There's only so much you can do.

The old saws have never been truer:

1) A lock will keep an honest man honest, but won't deter a determined theif.

2) The only truly secure computer is the one with the network cable unplugged.

Dodgy
09-07-2006, 02:27 AM
I've found by removing NAV and installing AVG I got LW 9 to stop locking up in modeler. Is avast so much better than AVG?

I also use Sygate's free firewall which works fine. I used to use Zonealarm, but again, it locked modeler.

iainbyoung
09-07-2006, 03:16 AM
In a recent independent survey comparing the different virus packages,(I'll try and dig out the link if you like), AVG came out dead last. It failed to detect several well known viruses, failed to clean others that it knew about, and didn't spot any suspect activity for unknown threats, (it doesn't have the predictive algorithms that other checkers have). So, yes. Avast is much better than AVG, (as is pretty much everything else - even Norton).

As for firewalls, being behind a hardware firewall only stops incoming naughtyness. If something has been installed (either by yourself or by a virus for example) on your machine, a hardware firewall (or even windows firewall)won't stop it transmitting all your personal information over the internet. A decent software firewall will prevent this.

Don't think that using firefox instead of ie will protect you from this either. There have been some fairly nasty (and large) security holes discovered in it recently.

Personally, firewall / antivirus software use so little resources that it's worth it for peace of mind. Trouble with me is that I'm a computer programmer, and as such, know how comparatively easy it is to access an unprotected system. Whether you want to run the risk is up to you, but I know that I never would :)

Iain

habaņero
09-08-2006, 04:40 AM
I would like to see your link on that AVG survey. What you state there doesn't at all rhyme with my experience, and to say that it is behind Norton is very strange and makes me suspect if the survey is honest. If it compared paid programs with free ones and found the free ones to be unsatisfactory, I would like to check it because the result really doesn't check in with my experience and particularly with Norton.

Predictive algorithms can be a mixed blessing, as with the Norton case mentioned here, it opens for conflicts. For an AV to not take all viruses is also a result I think you could likely be able to reproduce with a lot of AV software. I had a virus (and I only had a bad one once !) that I checked with six different ones and it was only Kaspersky that was able to both detect it and do something about it. AVG would give the correct name and thats actually rather impressive because it was flush new and it thusly beat both Norton, McAfee and another one that I don't remember exactly.

AVG is one of very few softwares including most of the paid ones, even kaspersky, that will read ssl encrypted mail. Which aint that uncommon really. Standard AV behaviour when reading google mail for example is to tell the user that it is scanning the email while in reality it doesn't understand anything ... !

It also is one of very few AV programs that you can install on a mom and pop computer and then forget about, it'll get updates and scan automatically, and the setup is very straightforward as well. Though not if you need the ssl feature that needs like 2 minutes extra setup that unfortunately aint very logic, but trivial with the help of Google.

Further it doesn't bog down the computer a lot, while as an example Avast will give you a noticable render hit. It looks clunky, but for a basic protection without user friendlyness issues the price is right. The main security threat for a mom and pop computer aint hacking or sophisticated attacks, its the big worms that you will get protected against and then it is their own idiocy, dutyfully sending their passwords when asked or installing fake AV or antispyware software etc.

I usually do the Sygate PF, Avast and spybot S&D on a general computer that doesn't contain valuable data or is mission critical. All these softwares are potty trained, while several of the paid ones aint.

Avast have as far as I remember really strange UI, require user interaction when it shouldn't, and takes a rather heavy toll on the system resources. It also doesn't understand tsl/ssl. For the price it aint bad and its very possible it offers better protection than AVG, but if I first would like that I would then go all the way up to either kaspersky or one of the other paid ones aside from norton or mcafee. Avast was very early with 64bit support and is a good alternative for that.

What AVG can do is to fill the harddisk uneccesarily, for which the cure is a program called CCcleaner that is a potty trained computer cleaner. It isn't though a case of more than a few Gb over time and particularly on a mom an pop rig it'll seldom be a real issue.

I have several times used it on norton protected computers where AVG would find and remove dozens of viruses. There is also a lot of Norton computers around with the updates off due to the users not being willing to or understand the need to pay money after the free 90 days. In my opinion Norton should present the user with a choice of self-uninstall or payment, they shouldn't offer a half- of half protected computer that lots of people evidently believe still is protected as an option since it is irresponsible, worse than nothing when it comes to security, and destroys peoples joy with computing since it kills them slooowly ...

iainbyoung
09-08-2006, 05:03 AM
Well, here's one recent link...

http://www.av-comparatives.org/

Select "Comparatives" from the left menu, then click the August 2006 online results link.

AVG professional definitely is shown to be quite some way behind the others, (it only caught 84% of windows viruses in this independent test). This ties in with what I've seen in the "real world". Over the last few years I've had to try and recover numerous virus riddled machines which had AVG installed.

Note that AVG does have an inclination towards false positives as well, (i.e. identifying viruses that aren't really viruses). This could be one explanation why it was reporting viruses on a Norton machine. Of course, Norton may have missed them if the virus definitions weren't up to date. Any checker is only as good as the last update...

I don't know about Avast and rendering (I don't use it myself). I've got McAfee installed at the moment and it doesn't seem to impact render times at all, and the firewall doesn't get in the way of modeler, layout, or lwcad.

zapper1998
09-08-2006, 05:23 AM
My machine, that I use Lightwave on, Has just the programs I need,
And is not connected to the WWW at all.
I have a seperate computer, I use for the internet and email.
I use a Router with a Firewall and Antivirus, and a High Speed Switch box to connect to the Router, then to the Computers and render nodes.
My email machine has had no viruses in years, It is scanned once a month for viruses..
I had Nortons along time ago, sense I uninstalled it from my machines, and I have reformatted and reloaded sense, I have had no problems.
Norton was a resource hog....
Michael

habaņero
09-08-2006, 06:49 AM
That sounds as good news about Avast. I tested it about a year ago, on win64 and had the issues I mentioned.

PcWorld has a test done by a viruslab at a german university, that places AVG at bottom but still with a good rating.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,124475-page,1/article.html

The test you linked have norton reported at 99% of viruses detected. The Administrator also takes Norton up in defence in the forums, and say people criticize it because they "don't think it can change". Its possible that it has in fact changed, but his position makes no sense to me since there is no reason to have any confidence in a security company that can't write a proper uninstaller over the course of several years. Its just a month ago as well that someone found a hole in norton itself that would allow taking over any machine it was installed on ... ! This is the kind of things I would expect to see at least mentioned on a security site, not a defence for a product with such obvious problems. "He has stopped beating his wife" aint the same as "he is a good husband", so to say.

The test also doesn't include nod32, which is strange.

http://www.av-comparatives.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=367&sid=d616107a84cd03543fd7ee0fdd7bf607

http://www.av-comparatives.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=219&sid=d616107a84cd03543fd7ee0fdd7bf607

I am not able to make a solid judgement on his tests either way, but I am not ready to accept them on face value. He is a single person, his results are impossible to re-test, its unclear what relevance they have to what normal people are likely to encounter, etc etc. There is also no mention about ssl, which for real is important these days and should be in a thorough test.

AVG is by the way not listed with a lot of fake positives in his result, and a percentage point behind McAfee ( 92,40%) with a total of 91,69 of viruses detected. Those numbers might be fine, but what I have problems with is his Norton number since I know for a fact that Norton is a POS. The computers I mentioned were noticeably sick, they were not full of false positives and I did not scan Nortons Vault or anything. It was just what is a completely normal thing on a computer today, people thinking they are protected against viruses by Norton when they infact aren't at all. And their machine made into the equivalents of one half the price ...!

I aint sure if we disagree as much since I don't say that AVG is the best, I think it offers good protection and straigthforwardness for non crucial equipment for which I would recommend it. I'll check avast again though !

For further reading on Norton, there's always the user reviews at CNET:

http://www.download.com/Norton-AntiVirus/3640-2239_4-10321099.html

And the wikipedia article, with discussion to follow:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norton_AntiVirus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Norton_AntiVirus

iainbyoung
09-08-2006, 07:42 AM
We use Norton as the corporate standard where I work, (a multi-national software development company), and in the 10+ years I've been there, I don't recall anyone ever contracting a virus. I know I certainly haven't.

At home, I use Panda on one machine and McAfee on my laptop. Neither seems to use much in resources (although McAfee uses more than Panda), and again, they do a good job with the nasties.

I'm not saying Norton doesn't use more resources than the others (it does), but it also seems to do a pretty good job at keeping the critters at bay :)

That link was just one I found quickly. I've seen very similar results in several places, (although I've not got time to go digging for them at the moment). At the end of the day it's personal choice. If you are happy with AVG then fine. I just know that the number of problems I've seen caused by that particular av program would stop me from recommending it to anyone...

palpal
09-11-2006, 10:19 AM
I just wanted to post again as it seem to me that noone of you have tried NORMAN software(not norton but Norman). That antivirus software works very good with my adobe, mail, indesign, etc etc, and LW and on all my nodes here at the office!

Yours PAL

creativecontrol
09-11-2006, 10:58 AM
Has anyone tried Comodo?

http://www.comodogroup.com/products/free_products.html

Looks interesting.

Dodgy
09-11-2006, 11:18 AM
The comodo firewall seems to get the thumbs up from pc magazine:

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1969225,00.asp

But the anti virus gets thumbs down from users...

http://www.download.com/Comodo-AntiVirus/3640-2239_4-10538178.html

So it looks like avast is the most recommended from the LW users :)