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View Full Version : LW9 has ATi issues. But again, what software doesnt have ATi issues LAYOUT CRASHES



Scott C. Zupek
09-01-2006, 02:36 PM
:help: :devil:

I HATE ATi card. Everytime I had a problem with my Windows machine its been because of their horrible Driver developers. Anyways I am running a AMD 64 Athlon 3.2. LW9 has been fine so far, but now after updating the ATi Driver if fails when loading my scene file. It never actually displays the scene either. it fails @ 99%. I have tracked the problem down to driver "atioglxx.dll". I did a quick search and it turns out A LOT of OPEN GL software applications are failing. I tried getting the latest version of opengl32.dll however, it made no difference.

I hate ATi, but I dont have a choice. This is my work machine and even though I am the main admin, im not spending 200 bucks on a video card from work. Plus everything is PCI-E and i am still mad they got away from AGP!

Any help would be appreciated. here is my log below on the failure.



----------------------------------------------------------------------
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-16"?>
<DATABASE>
<EXE NAME="lightwav.exe" FILTER="GRABMI_FILTER_PRIVACY">
<MATCHING_FILE NAME="annex9.dll" SIZE="204800" CHECKSUM="0xDA2B29C9" MODULE_TYPE="WIN32" PE_CHECKSUM="0x0" LINKER_VERSION="0x0" LINK_DATE="07/11/2006 02:32:19" UPTO_LINK_DATE="07/11/2006 02:32:19" />
<MATCHING_FILE NAME="cliped9.dll" SIZE="135168" CHECKSUM="0x676EAB9" MODULE_TYPE="WIN32" PE_CHECKSUM="0x0" LINKER_VERSION="0x0" LINK_DATE="07/11/2006 02:39:46" UPTO_LINK_DATE="07/11/2006 02:39:46" />
<MATCHING_FILE NAME="crender9.dll" SIZE="380928" CHECKSUM="0x7D36E410" MODULE_TYPE="WIN32" PE_CHECKSUM="0x0" LINKER_VERSION="0x0" LINK_DATE="07/11/2006 02:47:47" UPTO_LINK_DATE="07/11/2006 02:47:47" />
<MATCHING_FILE NAME="enved9.dll" SIZE="663552" CHECKSUM="0x28F26CFC" MODULE_TYPE="WIN32" PE_CHECKSUM="0x0" LINKER_VERSION="0x0" LINK_DATE="07/11/2006 02:39:13" UPTO_LINK_DATE="07/11/2006 02:39:13" />
<MATCHING_FILE NAME="gcore9.dll" SIZE="1921024" CHECKSUM="0x46D79BB6" MODULE_TYPE="WIN32" PE_CHECKSUM="0x0" LINKER_VERSION="0x0" LINK_DATE="07/11/2006 02:32:02" UPTO_LINK_DATE="07/11/2006 02:32:02" />
<MATCHING_FILE NAME="hub.exe" SIZE="172032" CHECKSUM="0x77E4E5D5" MODULE_TYPE="WIN32" PE_CHECKSUM="0x0" LINKER_VERSION="0x0" LINK_DATE="07/11/2006 02:48:03" UPTO_LINK_DATE="07/11/2006 02:48:03" />
<MATCHING_FILE NAME="hwrender9.dll" SIZE="1028096" CHECKSUM="0x6B3C8A07" MODULE_TYPE="WIN32" PE_CHECKSUM="0x0" LINKER_VERSION="0x0" LINK_DATE="07/11/2006 03:01:30" UPTO_LINK_DATE="07/11/2006 03:01:30" />
<MATCHING_FILE NAME="iview9.dll" SIZE="200704" CHECKSUM="0xE95709D5" MODULE_TYPE="WIN32" PE_CHECKSUM="0x0" LINKER_VERSION="0x0" LINK_DATE="07/11/2006 02:39:24" UPTO_LINK_DATE="07/11/2006 02:39:24" />
<MATCHING_FILE NAME="lcore9.dll" SIZE="1818624" CHECKSUM="0xD590B363" MODULE_TYPE="WIN32" PE_CHECKSUM="0x0" LINKER_VERSION="0x0" LINK_DATE="07/11/2006 02:37:51" UPTO_LINK_DATE="07/11/2006 02:37:51" />
<MATCHING_FILE NAME="lightwav.exe" SIZE="2658304" CHECKSUM="0x89BCD673" MODULE_TYPE="WIN32" PE_CHECKSUM="0x0" LINKER_VERSION="0x0" LINK_DATE="07/11/2006 03:13:23" UPTO_LINK_DATE="07/11/2006 03:13:23" />
<MATCHING_FILE NAME="locus9.dll" SIZE="86016" CHECKSUM="0x24E95AAC" MODULE_TYPE="WIN32" PE_CHECKSUM="0x0" LINKER_VERSION="0x0" LINK_DATE="07/11/2006 02:26:09" UPTO_LINK_DATE="07/11/2006 02:26:09" />
<MATCHING_FILE NAME="lsed.exe" SIZE="442368" CHECKSUM="0x26228D6C" MODULE_TYPE="WIN32" PE_CHECKSUM="0x0" LINKER_VERSION="0x0" LINK_DATE="07/11/2006 03:14:48" UPTO_LINK_DATE="07/11/2006 03:14:48" />
<MATCHING_FILE NAME="lsid.exe" SIZE="323584" CHECKSUM="0x384F0F0F" MODULE_TYPE="WIN32" PE_CHECKSUM="0x0" LINKER_VERSION="0x0" LINK_DATE="07/11/2006 03:15:38" UPTO_LINK_DATE="07/11/2006 03:15:38" />
<MATCHING_FILE NAME="lwaudio9.dll" SIZE="110592" CHECKSUM="0xF24CBDD0" MODULE_TYPE="WIN32" PE_CHECKSUM="0x0" LINKER_VERSION="0x0" LINK_DATE="07/11/2006 02:28:33" UPTO_LINK_DATE="07/11/2006 02:28:33" />
<MATCHING_FILE NAME="lwsn.exe" SIZE="753664" CHECKSUM="0xF510B783" MODULE_TYPE="WIN32" PE_CHECKSUM="0x0" LINKER_VERSION="0x0" LINK_DATE="07/11/2006 03:20:43" UPTO_LINK_DATE="07/11/2006 03:20:43" />
<MATCHING_FILE NAME="lwtools9.dll" SIZE="2437120" CHECKSUM="0x7E8B8A55" MODULE_TYPE="WIN32" PE_CHECKSUM="0x0" LINKER_VERSION="0x0" LINK_DATE="07/11/2006 02:28:25" UPTO_LINK_DATE="07/11/2006 02:28:25" />
<MATCHING_FILE NAME="meshedit9.dll" SIZE="778240" CHECKSUM="0x6CE614B3" MODULE_TYPE="WIN32" PE_CHECKSUM="0x0" LINKER_VERSION="0x0" LINK_DATE="07/11/2006 03:04:58" UPTO_LINK_DATE="07/11/2006 03:04:58" />
<MATCHING_FILE NAME="modeler.exe" SIZE="1351680" CHECKSUM="0xABE2CB5" MODULE_TYPE="WIN32" PE_CHECKSUM="0x0" LINKER_VERSION="0x0" LINK_DATE="07/11/2006 03:19:45" UPTO_LINK_DATE="07/11/2006 03:19:45" />
<MATCHING_FILE NAME="panels9.dll" SIZE="618496" CHECKSUM="0x6FA08540" MODULE_TYPE="WIN32" PE_CHECKSUM="0x0" LINKER_VERSION="0x0" LINK_DATE="07/11/2006 03:01:39" UPTO_LINK_DATE="07/11/2006 03:01:39" />
<MATCHING_FILE NAME="preview9.dll" SIZE="249856" CHECKSUM="0xE789D4E4" MODULE_TYPE="WIN32" PE_CHECKSUM="0x0" LINKER_VERSION="0x0" LINK_DATE="07/11/2006 02:42:12" UPTO_LINK_DATE="07/11/2006 02:42:12" />
<MATCHING_FILE NAME="RegisterLightwave.exe" SIZE="450560" CHECKSUM="0x7AA73D8D" MODULE_TYPE="WIN32" PE_CHECKSUM="0x75DA1" LINKER_VERSION="0x0" LINK_DATE="07/12/2006 10:23:08" UPTO_LINK_DATE="07/12/2006 10:23:08" />
<MATCHING_FILE NAME="surfed9.dll" SIZE="413696" CHECKSUM="0x956CBB42" MODULE_TYPE="WIN32" PE_CHECKSUM="0x0" LINKER_VERSION="0x0" LINK_DATE="07/11/2006 02:44:17" UPTO_LINK_DATE="07/11/2006 02:44:17" />
<MATCHING_FILE NAME="vfrb9.dll" SIZE="364544" CHECKSUM="0x20AD63AF" MODULE_TYPE="WIN32" PE_CHECKSUM="0x0" LINKER_VERSION="0x0" LINK_DATE="07/11/2006 02:39:55" UPTO_LINK_DATE="07/11/2006 02:39:55" />
<MATCHING_FILE NAME="volume9.dll" SIZE="397312" CHECKSUM="0xA9FC9F67" MODULE_TYPE="WIN32" PE_CHECKSUM="0x0" LINKER_VERSION="0x0" LINK_DATE="07/11/2006 02:46:01" UPTO_LINK_DATE="07/11/2006 02:46:01" />
<MATCHING_FILE NAME="windowsmedialib.dll" SIZE="262216" CHECKSUM="0xFAA50E4E" MODULE_TYPE="WIN32" PE_CHECKSUM="0x0" LINKER_VERSION="0x0" LINK_DATE="06/21/2002 22:07:54" UPTO_LINK_DATE="06/21/2002 22:07:54" />
</EXE>
<EXE NAME="atioglxx.dll" FILTER="GRABMI_FILTER_THISFILEONLY">
<MATCHING_FILE NAME="atioglxx.dll" SIZE="5136384" CHECKSUM="0xED74B19F" BIN_FILE_VERSION="6.14.10.6012" BIN_PRODUCT_VERSION="6.14.10.6012" PRODUCT_VERSION="6.14.10.6012" FILE_DESCRIPTION="ATI OpenGL driver" COMPANY_NAME="ATI Technologies Inc." PRODUCT_NAME="ATI OpenGL driver" FILE_VERSION="6.14.10.6012" ORIGINAL_FILENAME="atioglxx.dll" INTERNAL_NAME="atioglxx.dll" LEGAL_COPYRIGHT="Copyright (C) 1998-2002 ATI Technologies Inc." VERFILEDATEHI="0x0" VERFILEDATELO="0x0" VERFILEOS="0x40004" VERFILETYPE="0x2" MODULE_TYPE="WIN32" PE_CHECKSUM="0x0" LINKER_VERSION="0x0" UPTO_BIN_FILE_VERSION="6.14.10.6012" UPTO_BIN_PRODUCT_VERSION="6.14.10.6012" LINK_DATE="08 /02/2006 21:45:18" UPTO_LINK_DATE="08/02/2006 21:45:18" VER_LANGUAGE="English (United States) [0x409]" />
</EXE>
<EXE NAME="kernel32.dll" FILTER="GRABMI_FILTER_THISFILEONLY">
<MATCHING_FILE NAME="kernel32.dll" SIZE="984064" CHECKSUM="0xF12E1D4A" BIN_FILE_VERSION="5.1.2600.2945" BIN_PRODUCT_VERSION="5.1.2600.2945" PRODUCT_VERSION="5.1.2600.2945" FILE_DESCRIPTION="Windows NT BASE API Client DLL" COMPANY_NAME="Microsoft Corporation" PRODUCT_NAME="Microsoft® Windows® Operating System" FILE_VERSION="5.1.2600.2945 (xpsp_sp2_gdr.060704-2349)" ORIGINAL_FILENAME="kernel32" INTERNAL_NAME="kernel32" LEGAL_COPYRIGHT="© Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved." VERFILEDATEHI="0x0" VERFILEDATELO="0x0" VERFILEOS="0x40004" VERFILETYPE="0x2" MODULE_TYPE="WIN32" PE_CHECKSUM="0xF724D" LINKER_VERSION="0x50001" UPTO_BIN_FILE_VERSION="5.1.2600.2945" UPTO_BIN_PRODUCT_VERSION="5.1.2600.2945" LINK_DATE="07/05/2006 10:55:00" UPTO_LINK_DATE="07/05/2006 10:55:00" VER_LANGUAGE="English (United States) [0x409]" />
</EXE>
</DATABASE>
------------------------------------------------

dballesg
09-01-2006, 02:55 PM
Hi,

I have an old ATI card on my Laptop, aside Fujitsu doesn't have new drivers for it. ATI doesn't support it either.

But I use the OmegaDrivers, and they work fine on my laptop with the old ATI 9700SE.

http://www.omegadrivers.net/

Give them a try.

Best regards,
David

Scott C. Zupek
09-01-2006, 03:19 PM
Much appreciated. I thought the Omega drivers from the ATI team so i figured they would be just as crappy. Im back @ home for the holiday which lead me back to my old dual core 1.0ghz G4(yes a mac). but at least i dont have these problems. I'll give it a shot on wednesday on the x86 machine. thanks


Hi,

I have an old ATI card on my Laptop, aside Fujitsu doesn't have new drivers for it. ATI doesn't support it either.

But I use the OmegaDrivers, and they work fine on my laptop with the old ATI 9700SE.

http://www.omegadrivers.net/

Give them a try.

Best regards,
David

RudySchneider
09-01-2006, 04:12 PM
With all the gab about ATI "problems," I can't help but wonder what's to become of the AMD-ATI merger?

esper8
09-01-2006, 04:21 PM
I have an ATI X1900 on a Windows 64 bit, AMD dual core system and have had no problems with it at all.

Scott C. Zupek
09-01-2006, 04:25 PM
i've been doing the hardware thing since ummm 88 or so...but we'll say 90. i had the first 3d accelerator and remember when direct x was first being used for games(nightmare). Honestly, ATi has a lot of problems. They dont really innovate either. They just take what NVIDIA has done and put more pipelines, shaders, memory, mhz, etc into it. I wish they would spend more time on development. I also wish newtek would get a deal with NVIDIA for proprietary realtime rendering using the GPU... but life isnt perfect!

Im not saying all Ati's are bad, im saying if you have a os problem, its most liekly because of the ATI video card

lilrayray77
09-01-2006, 09:00 PM
I ont think ATI is the whole problem. I have an ATI card and runs just great, although not terribly fast, but that is expected from a slightly older card. The thing about PCs is that there are so many hardware combos. If an ATI works well with one machine, it may not with another. NVIDIA certainly isnt perfect either.

sami
09-03-2006, 11:16 PM
Hi,

Can someone (preferably from Newtek) please tell me what the definitive answer is regarding LW9 OpenGL problems and ATI cards?:grumpy:

I have a 256Mb ATI Radeon 9800 in a Dell laptop which worked absolutely fine (regardless of what other people say) with LW 8.5. Performance was great, and no driver bugs what so ever. :D So an answer saying ATI sucks get a new card is not a valid answer to me since 8.5 worked so well!

However LW9 regardless of the ATI drivers I find to try with LW9 -- I've used the latest Catalyst and the laptop modded drivers and now I'm trying the Omega drivers and LW9 is just impossible to work with! -- particularly Modeler... The display doesn't refresh properly and windows and geometry disappear and tear all over the place!!

Please someone tell me that this is either:

* a known bug and LW9 does not work with an ATI Radeon 9800 at all

or

* exactly what ATI drivers and where to get them (and what settings to set in them) to get LW9 to work.


LW8.5 is still on the same machine and works fine. So what is the deal? I apologize for any impatient tone in this post, but I NEED LW9 to work asap and searches of the forums and web show similar issues but no definitive answer from Newtek.

I need to hear something official so I can stop wasting time.

thanks very much for any help! :)

Sami

Silkrooster
09-04-2006, 01:14 AM
If you want an official response asap, you are better calling the company's tech support. They may answer you here, but they do get busy and could be awhile.
In the mean time try disabling some of the opengl features in lw and see if that helps. Also try changing the video card's acceleration features Should be under troubleshoot tab for your video card properties.
The above may or may not help, but hopefully it will.
Silk

sami
09-04-2006, 03:06 AM
thanks, I will try that. I was unaware that they actually have a phone support number as I thought this was the channel for support.

Unfortunately with the Omega drivers mentioned here, I can't even get to the options panel in LW to disable anything these new drivers are so bad that Modeler hangs on startup.

which is weird to me because 8.5 on this same machine still works beautifully...?

DragonFist
09-04-2006, 03:36 AM
I am using an ATI x850 here on an AMD x2 4400 with LW9 and am not experiencing any problems other than a very rare hang up starting lightwave (especially modeler) or when loading a scene. Latest drivers. This problem seems to have more to do with the hub the way it handles the tcp/ip stack and isn't video card related.

While I can understand the frustration at not having your hardware set up work, I have seen nearly as many problems from Nvidia in recent years and don't think one can fairly call ATI's driver development crappy. Not everyone that owns an ATI card is having troubles. I'd doubt it is even a majority.

But I know how it feels when you are one of the ones with the trouble and can't easily fix it.

sami
09-04-2006, 03:39 AM
I am using an ATI x850 here on an AMD x2 4400 with LW9 and am not experiencing any problems other than a very rare hang up starting lightwave (especially modeler) or when loading a scene. Latest drivers. This problem seems to have more to do with the hub the way it handles the tcp/ip stack and isn't video card related.

While I can understand the frustration at not having your hardware set up work, I have seen nearly as many problems from Nvidia in recent years and don't think one can fairly call ATI's driver development crappy. Not everyone that owns an ATI card is having troubles. I'd doubt it is even a majority.

But I know how it feels when you are one of the ones with the trouble and can't easily fix it.


I appreciate your feedback. Can you tell me exactly what version of drivers you are using and if you are using Catalyst as well?

thanks :)

DragonFist
09-04-2006, 04:02 AM
I am using catylist 6.8. I also have ATI Tray Tools for those rare times I need to tweak something (the messiah demo wouldn't work without forcing 16bit z-buffer which is a messiah issue and has similar issues on Nvidia cards).

A suggestion that I might make is going to www.driverheaven.net and downloading the driver cleaner they have. Uninstall your drivers, run the drivercleaner choosing the ATI options and then reinstall the drivers from vga mode. Sometimes installing over an old install can cause problems.

Also, check your motherboard chipset drivers and make sure they are up to date. I used to have an annoying crash that windows kept saying was video card related but what handled it was an update to my Nvidia motherboard drivers.

KScott
09-04-2006, 07:31 PM
I reinstalled the sentinal drivers, on a dell xp pro with a ATI 9800 pro and it fixed some of my problem, i can in fact now open modeler, and layout. There is still a comunication problem with the hub. i get a crash when i make changes in modeler and update layout. I can work now.
Any info on fixing this problem would be nice. IM out for a week so ill check back when i get in. I hope there is a update that will fix this problem quick LW has never had this type of issue with me, since 5.0

Kevin:D

www.Familiar3d.com

Scott C. Zupek
09-05-2006, 12:00 AM
One thing I have noticed is that its best to load Modeler and Layout from the HUB. So have a shortcut to the hub and launch the processes directly from there. Otherwise sometimes HUB doesnt pick up on the changes. That might help a little.

THREEL
09-05-2006, 01:29 AM
I ont think ATI is the whole problem. I have an ATI card and runs just great, although not terribly fast, but that is expected from a slightly older card. The thing about PCs is that there are so many hardware combos. If an ATI works well with one machine, it may not with another. NVIDIA certainly isnt perfect either.

I have an ATI 9000 All-In-Wonder on my machine (P-4, 2.8 Gig Motherboard, 1.5 Gig RAM). I have LW v8.5, and it does crash every once in a while, but my big crashing issues come with a video editing software called Pinnacle Studio. This crashes all the time.

My question is, is this a software issue, a hardware issue, or a mixture of the two? It, also, sounds like it could be driver related and/or an issue with how "clean" your system is. Lots of things you download off the net seem to have "extra" files that find their way to your OS and tend to slow your system down. Now, I love working with LW and doing video editing, but I'm no computer guru, so a lot of this is "Greek-to-me". Finally, like many of you out there, I'm a "Starving Artist", so spending loads of bucks on expensive video cards and other "necessities" is totally out of the question. That's why we come to forums like this one. Just remember, bigger isn't always necessarily better.

THREEL (AL)

warrenwc
09-06-2006, 12:13 AM
Pinnacle is pretty crash prone.
As for lightwave, 9 was crashing a lot until I upgraded my 9700 Pro 128Mb to an
X1300. I think ATI just can't push the older cards to the newer OpenGL standards.
Just my Opinion.:)

sami
09-06-2006, 01:59 AM
though I appreciate the feedback here, I should clarify - LW9 is not crashing with ATI (though one set of drivers did hang on Modeler start - though some say that is a hub thing?) All LW9 does is have massive OpenGL refresh issues and slowdowns, with windows disappearing and partially being visible on mouse-over and selection sets taking forever to highlight and resizing window panes/viewports being sluggish - making it unusable.

I repeat. This however is not solely an ATI issue as whatever OpenGL/user Interface changes were made to LW9 have resulted in this "incompatibility" (if it is that) with ATI. Remember 8.5 works absolutely flawlessly (and quite speedy and STABLE) with these same ATI drivers and card.

I am emphasizing this as no one from Newtek has yet addressed (at least to me) the changes that caused this. I don't think it is much to ask to retain at least 8.5's level of performance with the same hardware. Doesn't that make sense?

Again any help with this or light shed on this subject would be much appreciated.

thanks :)