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gatz
08-30-2006, 01:03 PM
I've been interested in using a technique I've seen in Maya animations and I'm hoping folks familiar with Maya and LW can tell me if we have similar tools available.

The quality of the outlines and the mottled painted surfaces seem beyond my skills in LW. I've tried the sketch options in 9, G2s artmode and the cel shaders. Sketch generates results similar to a trip through photoshop with edge filters. And I've never be been happy with the lines generated with the edge rendering options (tracing edges that shouldn't be visible, for one).

Do we have anything approaching this in LW?

http://flbl.net/akajou/index.php?movies

Titus
08-30-2006, 01:52 PM
The unreal shader does a similar work.

paulhart
08-30-2006, 04:45 PM
Thanks for the heads-up. I watched the film and wandered around the site. Fun stuff, well done. I love the renders, and have wanted to do something like this myself. I have participated in multiple threads on this site, started several of them, complained about this, etc. Not much response officially. I had hoped that after hiring in the developer of "Sketch" they might have made some improvement, but no, not yet. I use Unreal (check out the threads about versions) sometimes and have also been playing around this nodal solutions, but have not found anything close enough to this look. I want a controlled soft watercolor like aspect with more hand drawn modulated lines. I know that the arch viz crew would love to see this developed and the anime and animation fans are all ready, but nothing like "Sketch & Toon" is even close. There are a couple of old threads about some developers who won't release their efforts 'cause they aren't good enough' and they may never get out. I have written several emails to plugin developers to direct them along the way.... I am ranting again.... sorry....
Check out some of my posts to see my puny efforts with nodes so far. Since it is my development time, it is on-again-off-again, as real work gets in the way.
I am most influenced by Chomet (Les Triplets de Belleville) and Miyazaki (Spirited Away)
Lately I have been going back to DFX+4 node based post production on the Lightwave output. Some promise but I wish it was more native to the 3D side of the equation.
Good luck on the quest... post any findings...
Paul


http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50652&highlight=sketch
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54947&highlight=sketch
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52210&highlight=sketch
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54875&highlight=sketch
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?p=418716#post418716
http://www.celshader.com/

gatz
08-30-2006, 09:44 PM
Using a Mac and not being able to read Japanese puts me at a disadvantage with Unreal. The Mac version is several interations being the PC and I've never gotten any results from it. It's broken or I'm dumb, maybe both.

Paulhart-

Have you seen Wacom's technique?

http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33682

It's a labor intensive but the still results are nice. Animations is problematic and a lot of work.

rg

paulhart
08-21-2007, 12:21 PM
Yes, I have seen Wacom's approach. I just posted a reply to another thread and thought to put the link here also, hoping to stir up as much interest and possible application as possible. Trying to wrap my mind around the process to see if any aspect could be approximated in Lightwave..
http://graphics.pixar.com/ToonRendering/paper.pdf

Red_Oddity
08-23-2007, 04:49 AM
It can be done using LW like they did with Fairy Berry : http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=87&t=450682&highlight=fairy+berry
Comments from the guy himself.

The only trouble will be trying to match Maya excellent outline features (but it can be done using a smooth scaled and normals flipped model withj a dark shader to create the outline)

-FP-
08-23-2007, 05:26 PM
I posted this in the other thread:

You can get very similar effects with the free JOT (http://jot.cs.princeton.edu/), which can be used with Lightwave. It's very powerful. It allows for the thickness and irregularity of a model's outline to appropriately change with rotation and distance. The user has complete control over the characteristics of the line.

DEMO VIDEO 1 (http://www.cs.princeton.edu/gfx/pubs/Kalnins_2002_WND/wnpr_aud_uncmp3.avi)

DEMO VIDEO 2 (http://www.cs.princeton.edu/gfx/pubs/Kalnins_2003_CSS/kalnins2003css-divx.avi)

A Mejias
08-23-2007, 10:56 PM
Wow! Jot should be implemented in LW!!!

paulhart
08-23-2007, 11:17 PM
Yes?!!! Red_Oddity, thanks for the re-connect to that thread, still need to get my head around how this might look in "node land," seems like there should be enough of the component pieces, now how do I put them together.
-FP- I had researched JOT some time ago and re-seeing the videos was energizing. I spoke to a colleague in Germany about this and he expressed some of the frustration I had in how it is currently implemented, but the results are way cool...
and... A Mejias, I agree. I researched some of the authors current email addresses on the JOT project since it is vintage 2003 and sent off a note asking for some information. Could the code be ported or "redirected" into Lightwave nodes or a plugin??? I would like to think that some brighter mind than mine could make the leap, particularly if the source code was released. I hope I get a response.
There is some discussion of node development for Blender to port the Freestyle code into that app.... but I want my Lightwave plugin...
If you did not know, the NPAR had it's co-conference with SIGGRAPH this year here in San Diego and the preliminary info is linked to here
NPAR Non-Photorealistic Animation and Rendering 2007 (http://portal.acm.org/toc.cfm?id=1274871&idx=SERIES963&type=proceeding&coll=&dl=ACM&part=series&WantType=Proceedings&title=NPAR&CFID=32704712&CFTOKEN=82749686)