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ShawnStovall
08-24-2006, 04:28 PM
Well, LightWave v9 has been out for a good amount of time and I was wondering what people thing about the rest of the 9 cycle. Do you think it has potential down the road or do you think it will crash and burn? What is your opinion?

theo
08-25-2006, 04:29 PM
Neither.

The potential of LW was realized many years ago and the crash-and-burn scenario is much too absurd to comment on.

ShawnStovall
08-25-2006, 04:38 PM
It was just a metaphor representing the two extremes - successful or not.

lardbros
08-25-2006, 04:58 PM
Well i think it is a decent question...

I believe that Newtek are on the right track at the moment with what they are doing with LW9. (As a side note, i think that their 3dArsenal package, which is a slightly modified LW7, is a bit of a joke.)

Anyway, if Newtek carry on with a speedy updating schedule, as i think they are right now, they will be on the road to recovery. At this moment there are clearly bugs in LW9 that need addressing, but no software goes without its bugs. I was using 3dMAX at work today and attempting to use the fur plugin... for want of a better word, it's crap... utterly useless, and the results aren't even decent either. It crashed on me 5 times in 10 minutes, so i resorted to using the good ol' cardboard cutout technique. So everyone moaning that LW9 is buggy as **** should try out some of the competitors. They truly are not all their cracked up to be. I was screaming out to use LW today, it was driving me nuts. (I can only speak of 3dsmax, so clearly other software may be bugless)

One thing i wish the LW developers would do is keep consistency within the program. I know these things are only tiny, but overall they add a completeness that designers/animators/creatives want. One example is the scrolling/panning within the viewports and then the Nodal editor. Fine when using ALT and the mouse it works great, and both the same. But clicking the pan button to move the nodal view around is the opposite to the viewport. There are a list of these little things that bug the **** out of me, but if they were altered (surely would only take minutes) would add to the overall experience.

The bottom line is that LW9 will be successful if the transition of modeller tools to layout works well, if all Modeller tools can be made interactive, and many of the ways in which Modeller and Layout addresses workflow. At the moment many things need to be changed, and they need some clever bods to give them input on how they should be changed. Hopefully Newtek won't just ask the people who work at Newtek what they need to do with the tools, but ask people who work in big studios with LW on a daily basis.

Atleast Newtek are on the right tracks eh? Maybe by LW10 the transition will be complete, and the ranting will cease? (Ha, yeah right)

Bog
08-25-2006, 05:17 PM
We've had a tough couple of years. A lot of the core engineers and serious minds went away to do something else. It was a blow - but in a way, it's been good for us - the artists. It means that we've got fresh brains focussed on the problem, and release 9 starts to really show what's going to happen with the future. This is a whole new animal. It's a turning point.

It's a fresh start. Anyone with a grasp of the underlying principles of 3D will realise the huge, sweeping changes to to LightWave. The interface looks the same, and admittedly with OpenGL performance that's in the same ballpark. But what's under the hood is *not* the same. It's new, and it's broader, faster and better.

I felt really bad about 8.5 in a lot of ways, I really did. But, I paid attention to what was being said, and I had faith in what 9 would be. Not the be-all and end-all, but a fundamental change in the way things were being done. Sticking through the 8 cycle was ... rough.

But now I've got something that's lively under my hand, that reacts with the immediacy I've been looking for, but's got the same down-to-the-wire immersion of 5.6. It's really **** nice. I've got a lot of learning that I need to tuck away, but I've been using it in Mission Mode for months, and it's better than it's ever been.

And, we've been told time and again - by people whose word I've learned to take - that this is just the start.

How do I feel? I feel optimistic. And happy. And like I've made a good investment in my own future.

ShawnStovall
08-25-2006, 05:28 PM
[This was intended for lardbros]
With as big of an update as 9 was I can't wait for ten to be released(many months to come).

What I think happened is that with all their focus on all the new features they forgot(or just didn't have the time) to put more attention on the little things like that. They started from the core up so I would say it would be very resource and time consuming to just do that alone. I'm happy with NewTek for making all the changes they are to catch up with the game. If they keep on working like this we might just see realistic fur and accurate water techniques.

As for Modeler I think that it is state-of-the-art. Not including OpenGL I think Modeler has the most expansive tool set for modeling and texturing I have ever seen in a program. It would be nice for Layout to have some of Modeler's tools but I think if they import too many it could get messy.

I'm looking forward to what LightWave has in store.

SP00
08-25-2006, 07:18 PM
Autodesk is going to slow down a bit, since Maya and Max is also due for a core rewrite. Plus the merger will slow down initial development. They also need to figure out the restructuring plans and new branding of similiar yet different products. I think this is the right time for LW development to catch up.

ShawnStovall
08-25-2006, 07:24 PM
Autodesk is going to slow down a bit, since Maya and Max is also due for a core rewrite. Plus the merger will slow down initial development. They also need to figure out the restructuring plans and new branding of similiar yet different products. I think this is the right time for LW development to catch up.

Yep, with them and all their branches(i.e. Merged business) they have a lot to do, and it is going to take a lot of time. That is why I'm glad NewTek hasn't decided to merge with anyone.

lardbros
08-26-2006, 01:26 AM
[This was intended for lardbros]

What I think happened is that with all their focus on all the new features they forgot(or just didn't have the time) to put more attention on the little things like that.

Yeah, you're most probably right. For me it's a very exciting time... as we go through the LW9 cycle more of the SDK will be opened up as well as completely new features being added with each release. It's certainly a tough task, but so far they have done a stirling job.

I agree, modeller is a great piece of software, don't get me wrong, it's just workflows that need sorting out. At the moment we need to click a specialist move tool just to move a polygon along its normal. It needs to be quicker than that that's all.

As i said earlier, i use 3dsMAX at work all day everyday, everyday goes past and i think "If only i could use LW for this, it would be a sinche". (Its usually when it comes to texturing and rendering. Texturing in LW is SO easy yet unbelievably powerful. MAX's texture editor is shoddy, VERY outdated and quite limited to be honest.)

Cageman
08-26-2006, 02:51 AM
(As a side note, i think that their 3dArsenal package, which is a slightly modified LW7, is a bit of a joke.)


Hmm... I don't think 3D-arsenal is a bad thing for videoproducers who needs some graphics fast without learning all about 3D. However, I don't think it was a good idea to show it at SIGGRAPH. If someone who walked by and didn't know it was a 3D-arsenal demo...well, lets just say they wouldn't want to check out LightWave.



(I can only speak of 3dsmax, so clearly other software may be bugless)

All apps seems to have some areas that are either hard to work with or suffer from alot of bugs. LightWave isn't any different in that regard, but it is the app that brings me most fun. :)



One thing i wish the LW developers would do is keep consistency within the program.

Agreed. Object properties is a good example of when some things can be done on multiple object at the same time, others have do be done on one object at a time.



The bottom line is that LW9 will be successful if the transition of modeller tools to layout works well, if all Modeller tools can be made interactive, and many of the ways in which Modeller and Layout addresses workflow. At the moment many things need to be changed, and they need some clever bods to give them input on how they should be changed. Hopefully Newtek won't just ask the people who work at Newtek what they need to do with the tools, but ask people who work in big studios with LW on a daily basis.


Again, agreed! :)



Atleast Newtek are on the right tracks eh? Maybe by LW10 the transition will be complete, and the ranting will cease? (Ha, yeah right)

Yeah... right! ;)

Seriosly though, as you say, it feels like NT are on the right track and, imho, they have so far adressed stuff in the right order, at least when it comes to Layout. But some radical reworking needs to be done to make the workflow better, and also allow for more ways to approach a problem. Sometimes you are more or less forced to do things one way and this "one way" solution may break something further on.