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Phil
08-24-2006, 12:33 PM
NT,

What is the situation regarding customers of Prem's who bought Rel 2.0, but have not upgraded their version of LW, or have upgraded, but are also retaining 8.x for various reasons?

The version of Rel 2 shipping with LW 9 is only usable under 9.0. Are we expecting to get a complete version of Rel. 2 with bug fixes for use with earlier versions of LW, or are we screwed?

As someone who has paid twice for Rel. 2 (as a customer of Prem and also for the LW 9 upgrade), I would seem to have two licenses and would like a 8.x compatible version, with bug fixes.

Additionally, what is the copyright situation and ownership status of the previous content that was made available by Prem for Rel. 2? It is a real treasure trove and unfortunately is not in the content released for LW 9. Can this be made available? If you don't know, could you please check with Prem?

Phil
08-26-2006, 11:00 AM
Has the entire staff of NewTek gone on holiday? I expected the possibility of a skeleton staff in the forums, but no staff is a little much :(

Chuck
08-26-2006, 03:20 PM
NT,

What is the situation regarding customers of Prem's who bought Rel 2.0, but have not upgraded their version of LW, or have upgraded, but are also retaining 8.x for various reasons?

The version of Rel 2 shipping with LW 9 is only usable under 9.0. Are we expecting to get a complete version of Rel. 2 with bug fixes for use with earlier versions of LW, or are we screwed?

As someone who has paid twice for Rel. 2 (as a customer of Prem and also for the LW 9 upgrade), I would seem to have two licenses and would like a 8.x compatible version, with bug fixes.

Additionally, what is the copyright situation and ownership status of the previous content that was made available by Prem for Rel. 2? It is a real treasure trove and unfortunately is not in the content released for LW 9. Can this be made available? If you don't know, could you please check with Prem?

Insofar as I understand it, subject to correction: NewTek purchased Relativity from PreDesign to integrate into LightWave beginning with v9. We did not purchase PremDesign, the company, and our plans do not currently include providing Relativity as a separate product. I'm not sure of the status of the content but if we purchased it we will make it available. I'll pass your inquiry along to management to see what additional information we may be able to provide.

Phil
08-26-2006, 04:20 PM
Prem seems to be under the impression that the deal included a statement that a 'final' version of Relativity 2 was to be made available to his existing customers, for use with LW 7.x and 8.x. I have this in a reply to a private email and will forward it, if needed.

At some point, although it is still incomplete in LW 9.0, Relativity 2 should be declared final. Prem's customers were subscribed to the beta program for this plugin and are being somewhat cheated - the product never left beta and, since it was acquired by NT, there has not been a subsequent build outside of LW 9. We never got final documentation or content, either.

I'd certainly appreciate a 8.x-compatible build in parallel with the 9.0 version, when it is finalised. I'm not being awkward for the sake of it, but just looking for the final version of the product I paid for over 4 years ago; I know it's not your fault that Rel 2 has taken so long.

KillMe
08-26-2006, 05:36 PM
hmmm preorder software then the authors sold it before ever releasing =/ yeah that doesn't seem quite right

Chuck
08-26-2006, 05:47 PM
As I said, my comments were subject to correction, and I've passed the inquiry along to the appropriate area managers for complete and accurate information. Thanks for bringing your concern and interests to our attention, and I'll work on getting the answers for you as soon as possible.

Chuck
08-26-2006, 05:49 PM
hmmm preorder software then the authors sold it before ever releasing =/ yeah that doesn't seem quite right

Phil's info indicates that Prem and NewTek took care to account for this in their agreement; so let's give things the benefit of the doubt for now and reserve any editorial comment.

Bog
08-26-2006, 06:44 PM
Oh, but Chuck! NewTek is always the evil empire! Everyone knows that you're some huge multinational always out to rip off the little guy!

Warning. This post contains in excess of 27,000 times the Recommended Daily Allowance of irony.

Phil
08-27-2006, 01:47 AM
As I said, my comments were subject to correction, and I've passed the inquiry along to the appropriate area managers for complete and accurate information. Thanks for bringing your concern and interests to our attention, and I'll work on getting the answers for you as soon as possible.

Thanks :)

WCameron
08-27-2006, 04:44 PM
any chance of releasing the early beta Rel 2 docs? i think those might help a lot of people (even if they're out of date). especially the example scenes
that were whipped up.....


- Will.

Phil
08-28-2006, 07:30 AM
They shouldn't be out of date, but they will only make sense if the Relativity 1.0 docs are released as well. The 2.0 docs were essentially an addendum to the 1.0 ones.

Phil
09-12-2006, 10:57 AM
Any news on this yet, Chuck?

Phil
09-14-2006, 05:43 AM
We're rapidly approaching 3 weeks with no comment on this. :(

Chuck
09-14-2006, 10:48 AM
Just to confirm, the matter of customers entitled to Relativity 2.0 upon it's release was indeed covered in the agreement, as both Prem and NewTek wanted to insure that the obligations to these purchasers of the product are properly met. The LightWave team is now working on the details of being able to provide these customers with the current version and reviewing what is needed to provide the complete version they are expecting. NewTek has the content as well, and is making arrangements for making it available.

Phil
09-14-2006, 11:20 AM
Hurray! My :( becomes :)

Thanks NewTek, Prem and Chuck!

Phil
09-27-2006, 11:46 AM
Just bumping to try and move the content along. It already exists, is packaged, so what's the delay for?

HarverdGrad
09-27-2006, 09:29 PM
Just to confirm, the matter of customers entitled to Relativity 2.0 upon it's release was indeed covered in the agreement, as both Prem and NewTek wanted to insure that the obligations to these purchasers of the product are properly met. The LightWave team is now working on the details of being able to provide these customers with the current version and reviewing what is needed to provide the complete version they are expecting. NewTek has the content as well, and is making arrangements for making it available.

Thanks for communciating this. Good to see it's not being abandoned. The great thing about Lightwave are the numerous plugins. The bad thing is that they are developed by 3rd parties, and the amount of support is always a "keep your fingers crossed". Would be nice if there was a "Lightwave Certified" program, for approved plugins.
Best Regards~

Phil
10-07-2006, 05:48 AM
*bump*

Phil
10-07-2006, 12:28 PM
I've uploaded various Relativity tips and tutorials to http://ldex.terica.net/personal/services/relativity2.html

Have fun.

Gus 512
10-07-2006, 08:49 PM
Thanks Phil, i can see, and feel,and apreciate, all the energy you invest,to make this lack of information, available. I was expecting Better and Faster reaction from Newtek. What is going on there.

JamesCurtis
10-07-2006, 09:55 PM
Tutorials links do not work.

Phil
10-08-2006, 02:24 AM
Fixed. You're welcome.

HarverdGrad
11-11-2006, 08:59 AM
kapow! ...Bump!

any news?

pdrake
11-13-2006, 12:09 PM
just a note to let myself know where this is. thanks.

HarverdGrad
01-21-2007, 04:22 PM
bumpity bump!
Any news?
Ferris..
Anyone?

Phil
03-24-2007, 12:08 PM
*bump* No news? Disappointing - it's been over 6 months.

HarverdGrad
05-20-2007, 03:01 PM
8 months later and still no word? :thumbsdow

RedBull
05-20-2007, 04:35 PM
Yes i too was wondering where the R2 content was on my LW9 CD's...
So any news on when the content and manuals will be downloadable. ?

Phil
05-20-2007, 05:34 PM
Content and manuals are on register.newtek.com :)

The 8.x compatible build for previous customers is, I think, still planned, but Rel 2 was shipping incomplete in both 9.0 and 9.2 (only slightly different from the last 8.x build I had of Rel 2). I'm not sure when we'll have the 'final' version of Rel 2, or who exactly is responsible for working on it these days.

HarverdGrad
01-12-2008, 10:31 AM
Just cause I've got nothing better to do..
Any news on the 2.0 Update? Is anyone here accountable.. or is it one of those "shhhhhh.. it'll go away" kind of things?

UnCommonGrafx
03-04-2008, 07:40 AM
It would seem to be a "shhhhhh.. it'll go away" situation.

Phil
03-04-2008, 10:20 AM
It's definitely really bad form on NewTek's part. I'm actually rather disappointed that they have also completely failed to post the HTML documentation for Relativity 1 and 2 that I sent them a year ago.

It's all rather unfortunate. If FFx is Fiber Factory 4, and NewTek plan to compensate existing FF4 owners, I hope they will actually deliver this time.

3D|Dave
03-04-2008, 10:22 AM
I beleive you should be entiltled to a complete refund from Prem since the product you purchased has not been delivered regardless of who now owns the source code.

UnCommonGrafx
03-04-2008, 10:42 AM
You know,
Relativity is an awfully powerful package. Without the documentation, most folks have NO IDEA WHAT KIND OF POWER IS IN RELATIVITY. Did I say that loud enough?

Today, I'm here at work trying to figure out how to do the rolling tire trick on a bball rolling on the floor. Can't download the link and can't go home to get the docs there.



The simplest question I have for NewTek is: why won't you post the Relativity docs and example scenes?


One of the biggest reasons to NEVER see a third-party plug devver get absorbed. They tend not to come back to the fold if they part ways with NT and usually do so with a vengeance.

Edit: I'm not finished!!!

Phil, I'm with you on this: not letting go until it gets resolved.
Prem, legally, may indeed owe us something if this doesn't get resolved quickly. Sad it's been almost two years without resolution.

UnCommonGrafx
03-04-2008, 10:46 AM
Phil,
Are you around the documentation that you could send it my way?

rwilson at isd dot k12 dot in dot us

Hugely appreciated!

adamredwoods
03-04-2008, 10:49 AM
Relativity is an awfully powerful package. Without the documentation, most folks have NO IDEA WHAT KIND OF POWER IS IN RELATIVITY. Did I say that loud enough?

Relativity may be powerful, but I feel the UI could use a great deal more work. THis is common for many apps where they have a good idea, but the human interface is lacking, so no one uses it.

On the other hand, if Relativity were to be node based or have an SDK-enabled environment, you'd see a great more many things.

wavemaster
03-04-2008, 10:57 AM
Relativity may be powerful, but I feel the UI could use a great deal more work. THis is common for many apps where they have a good idea, but the human interface is lacking, so no one uses it.

On the other hand, if Relativity were to be node based or have an SDK-enabled environment, you'd see a great more many things.
Agreed! Nodal should be implemented!
The interface sucks, and so does the documentation!

UnCommonGrafx
03-04-2008, 11:28 AM
The interface may not be the greatest but that isn't what this discussion is about.
Thanks for the thought, though.


(An aside on the above tangent: I don't believe they ever bought it for us to use -- I believe they bought it for the r&d of it. Prem had something that even the devs hadn't figured out. I think it's going to be the basis for motion nodality in LW.
All of that, though, doesn't absolve them from sharing the docs nor taking care of previous owners as called for in the contract.

And if you want to talk about bad docs and crappy interface, look at LWs own implementation. That's to be puked on in comparison to Relativity's relatively beautiful interface. )

Phil
03-04-2008, 12:19 PM
Relativity HTML docs attached. Content is in your regular LW downloads on the registration pages.

UnCommonGrafx
03-04-2008, 01:32 PM
Phil,
Extremely appreciated!

zapper1998
03-04-2008, 01:40 PM
Phil, Extremely appreciated!



:agree: :agree:

TK

Phil
03-04-2008, 02:10 PM
Note that the documentation is missing some info - it came from the last beta build back when Rel 2 was Prem's and he marginally cared about keeping users informed.

There's no point trying to contact Prem, though. He ignores all email as far as I can tell. He doesn't care about his customers either - ignoring the support group as well.

Chuck
03-10-2008, 10:53 AM
From my conversations with Prem, the feature updates to Relativity added in v9.3.1 completed the Relativity v2.0 spec. We still need to compile a version for use with pre v9.0 versions and we're working on that. We'll announce it when we have it ready.

The docs folks reviewed the HTML docs and rebranded them to NewTek, and my understanding was that the files had been provided to the IT staff with the request to make them available in the v9.x downloads. They were also reviewed against the PDF already available for download, and any material present in the HTML docs that was not present in the PDF was to be added. I'll see about the status of that.

Chuck
03-11-2008, 09:00 AM
Just a quick follow-up, I was able to confirm that the HTML docs were rebranded and passed to IT with the request to get them posted, quite some time ago. We're following up today with IT to refresh the request and see if we can get them to complete the task.

HarverdGrad
11-10-2008, 01:21 PM
How about free upgrades to version 9, for v. 8.5 users since it doesn't look like you're going to deliver the promised Relativity 2.0 free upgrade.
..i'm just sayin