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Lottmedia
08-23-2006, 08:42 PM
OK, so I'm probably ditzing here, but I can't seem to get glow to work. It doe work in 9 dosen't it? I did the glow option in the surface properies and activated it in the Processing tab (that's the one that used to get everyone) But it just dosen't seem to be working. I have it as a filiment (SP?) inside a glass lightbulb, would that do it? I'm at a loss. Thanks guys!!

Casey :cat:

Lottmedia
08-23-2006, 08:51 PM
So I think I seem to have it working, but I have two bulbs in the scene and only the first one is glowing. I even assigned a seperate surface to the second and copied over the setting of the first and still only the first is working. Anyone know why?

Casey :cat:
(hu?...who?...)

Silkrooster
08-23-2006, 08:51 PM
Hmmm. Just a guess, but perhaps because you are trying to get a glow inside a transparent object. I recall a thread about create a glow for a lightbulb before, but don't recall the outcome.
I don't know if 9 solved the glow issue or not. Could you render in 2 passes, in first the glass is unrenderable to allow the glow, then render the glass over your glow background. Or something on that idea.
Sorry if I wasn't more help, but I haven't even tryied doing glows in 9 yet.
Silk

connerh
08-23-2006, 10:39 PM
Why not try using HV Sprites for the glow? I almost never use LWs default glow option, as the HV method works much better and is much more configurable.

ShawnStovall
08-23-2006, 10:41 PM
to Lottmedia = Did you know about the spell check in the upper right-hand corner of the edit box when you post?

I can't even find the glow interface...

Silkrooster
08-23-2006, 11:28 PM
Well, I have been playing with the lightbulb for a little while in 9 using the old shaders(shame on me). Below is what I came up with. I found out that texture displacements and the luminosity channel do not work inside a transparent object either.
What I ended up using was a point light with a lens flare with most of the options turned off.
Silk

Wickster
08-23-2006, 11:59 PM
wait wha???

what kind f glow are you all trying to achieve? i thought it was just adjusting the "glow intensity" on the suface editor 'advanced tab' and make sure "enable glow" is on on the 'effect processing' window (CTRL+F8).

or are you talking about a glow that is way pass my head that i should probably know about?

Silkrooster
08-24-2006, 12:23 AM
To my knowledge for glow to work it has to have a lumious object. Inside a transparent object the luminosity channel does not work. Therefore glow will not work.
If the light filment was not inside a transparent object, then yes glow would work.
Silk

Wickster
08-24-2006, 12:41 AM
ah i see...trying to simulate the bulb filament. hmmm...way beyond my brain there. i have to sit down and think about that...thinking hurts me. heheh. :D

Phil
08-24-2006, 01:20 AM
Well....historically, I would have recommended SuperGlow 2 for this. It is, though, Win32 only and is completely broken with LW9. The plugin causes an instant crash and has done for all the OB releases. NewTek apparently don't care and the developer is....encountering problems making his plugin work without relying on the legacy plugins.

Given that LW also makes it so tremendously painful to get usable masks (per-surface, per-object) out, it's also bl**dy difficult to get a proper glow for complex scenes even in post, complete with reflections and refractions.

I'm hoping that there will be progress in this area, but with NT apparently having gone dark since SIGGRAPH, who knows? Call me frustrated, but LW's glow has been the same since 4.0 was released over 10 years ago. Some progress could have been expected by now. *sigh*

Ztreem
08-24-2006, 04:28 AM
Maybe hyperglow could be something to look up, it's not a free plug-in but looks cool. http://www.ficatech.com/

T-Light
08-24-2006, 06:57 AM
I'd render the filament out in a seperate pass and glow it in post.

It's a bit unfortunate isn't it.

Phil
08-24-2006, 07:26 AM
It's pathetic. Take a look at what can be done with a little planning and forethought : http://www.pontari.com

It really hurts that this plugin is so badly broken - it has saved my backside so many times that, despite all the goodness in LW 9, I still cannot commit to nodal properly because I have to use LW8.5 to get glows/masks/etc. out.

In fact...pathetic is not nearly strong enough. I've bitched and moaned about this repeatedly, with plenty of soothsaying from NewTek as a response. So far, no delivery and I'm finding it hard to maintain my initial confidence in 9.x with this extended dark period post-9.0 / SIGGRAPH. I'm fully expecting that the only real option will be to pick up the OpenEXR plugin from LightWolf in a later release *sighs deeply* *Ten years*. SuperGlow 2 dates from at least 1999. That's 7 years.

Lottmedia
08-24-2006, 08:35 AM
Not sure how to impliment the HV options with my current setup. For refrence I've attatched a pic of the rouch scene. You see I've been able to get the bulb on the left to glow using the triditional methods. The other eye is identical, but no glow. I even seperated out the filiment surfaces thinking it didn't like two surfaces glowing, but no. Maby the pic will help get an idea for everyone and keep Wickster from blowing a fuse :)

PS Shawn, I swear I can't find a spell check thingie. I feel a bit daft, really :(

Casey :cat:
(She who cannot spell....)

Phil
08-24-2006, 09:49 AM
Maybe hyperglow could be something to look up, it's not a free plug-in but looks cool. http://www.ficatech.com/

This seems very slow from what I can tell. A simple ball within the default scene, with 100% luminosity sees its render time jump from ~ 1 second to around 30-40 seconds with this plugin added and default settings. I haven't tried something more 'serious' yet, but if this scales with the number of glowing elements, it could hurt very quickly :(

Lottmedia
08-24-2006, 11:08 AM
Also, this is for ani so a few second per could make a big difference

Casey :cat:

Ztreem
08-24-2006, 12:07 PM
You can use the corona filter to make things glow. Some really nice effects can be achieved when two or more instances of the filter is applied.

shrox
08-24-2006, 12:49 PM
PS Shawn, I swear I can't find a spell check thingie. I feel a bit daft, really :(

Casey :cat:
(She who cannot spell....)

It is in the upper right corner of the "Go Advanced" post box.

Lottmedia
08-24-2006, 01:23 PM
It is in the upper right corner of the "Go Advanced" post box.

see other thread, it there if you have IE, not safari or Firefox

Casey :cat:

kilovideo
08-24-2006, 01:46 PM
I'm a bit stumbled here. Your putting the lightbulb inside the robot? I do not use LW glass objects, but rather edit them to give the one detail LW glass objects don't have. Depth, glass is not a doublesided polygon. I extrude 3-5 pixels or more. I would cut the back half of the bulb away. Render times increase of course, but I can live with that. For the eye that is not glowing, did you try to just copy the one that does?

GoodLuck

Anti-Distinctly
08-24-2006, 02:51 PM
I know that glow and post processes in general weren't working in earlier versions. I've just done a fresh install, knocked up a bulb and filament type thing (very very quickly :)) and it works fine here. Very odd.Or I should I say...Bizzarro!

connerh
08-24-2006, 02:59 PM
Here's a quick, 10 second example of what I'm talking about. All you have to do is copy the polys you want to apply the glow to into another layer, then subdivide the polys until you have the point density you need for the Sprite HVs, then kill the polys, and apply HVs to that layer, and you're done. Easy, configurable, and it renders quickly.

Lottmedia
08-24-2006, 04:25 PM
For the eye that is not glowing, did you try to just copy the one that does?


yep, copied and pasted exactly. They're the same. Did as two seperate surfaces or as one, second does not glow


Casey :cat:

T-Light
08-24-2006, 04:25 PM
You can get a glow behind glass so long as...

1) You render with the classic camera
&
2) Raytrace transparency is off
&
3) Raytrace refraction is off

Don't know if that'll help, but that's what I've come up with :)

Lottmedia
08-24-2006, 04:47 PM
But the one I posted used Perspective camera (no ray trace) and got half glow (only one eye) and any permutation of those settings (classic camera, raytrace, etc.) got the same results.

Casey :cat:

connerh
08-24-2006, 05:22 PM
Man... I sure wish there was some method of applying glow to a surface that actually worked with distance from camera, reflections, refractions, etc. I sure do. Oh... wait... mine does. :D

T-Light
08-24-2006, 06:23 PM
connerh, nice technique :)
Casey, that's just weird, can you post a scene with just the eyes?

Here's one that rendered a couple of minutes ago (well, that and 'Force Ten from Navarone' just finished (me and my 2nd World War movies:D ))

Multiple bulbs, multiple filaments, multiple layers of glass and depth of field :)

(rendered in 9)

[EDIT] conerh, reread your earlier posts, that's more than nice, that's excellent :thumbsup:

Lottmedia
08-24-2006, 06:29 PM
here, try this

Casey :cat:

Lottmedia
08-24-2006, 06:31 PM
Just got briliant all the sudden. deleated non-working bulb, mirrored over the working one. Works now, but no idea why it didn't work to begin with.

Casey :cat:

T-Light
08-24-2006, 06:38 PM
Hi Casey, guess what :D

Switched on raytrace shadows, raytrace reflection and classic camera.
Don't know which one made it work, but thought I'd post straight away then have another look.

[EDIT] - Aw, thought I was in there first.

T-Light
08-24-2006, 06:57 PM
Works fully with the classic camera, trace shadows & trace reflection seem irrelevant :)

Silkrooster
08-24-2006, 06:59 PM
Man, I feel like a dufus. I got glow and texture displacement to work inside a transparent object. The problem is 2 point polys don't render inside a transparent object.
So I did some tests, just to confirm what others said. Mostly for my curiousity.
Raytrace options in the render options panel have to be off and must use clasic camera.
Man I could slap myself silly about now. Best part is I learned something from it, the bad I feel like an idiot.
Silk

connerh
08-24-2006, 07:27 PM
T-Light: thanks for the compliment. It's always suprising how many people don't know this technique, even though it's more... correct, in a sense, than the default glow option. LWs default glow is simply a lum-based filter, whereas the HVs simulate the presence of an atmosphere around an object (which is what actually causes the glow).

geothefaust
08-25-2006, 12:29 AM
Connerh, thanks for the method. I was actually looking for something just like that. :)

thanks!

Phil
08-25-2006, 01:40 AM
The irritating bit is that this technique is problematic for texture-driven glows. If PFX supports particle emission based on an applied texture, I guess that might be a route because generating geometry to drive HVs in this case would be painful.

That said, it is an approach that hadn't really occurred to me before. I'll have to play around a bit. Sparkles should be doable with this as well, assuming you can filter the HVs via PFX in a similar way.

BloodQuest
08-25-2006, 02:36 AM
Did you know about the spell check ...


I get an error massage


so give me a brake


to finish thous exercises

I'm really sorry, but I couldn't resist!

Simon

Phil
08-25-2006, 02:41 AM
Ooooh. Harsh ;D

T-Light
08-25-2006, 06:43 AM
Phil -

The irritating bit is that this technique is problematic for texture-driven glows. If PFX supports particle emission based on an applied texture, I guess that might be a route
It does :thumbsup: you've awoken something in my addled brain. It's a good few years ago and it was an example given for showing a flaming logo. It's amazing and it had completely skipped my mind, The one I'm thinking of looks like a blue gas flame spreading through an animated greyscale sequence of the LW logo. (The Aura pen to flame technique may be similar - can't be sure)

I'll see if I can find them :)

T-Light
08-25-2006, 07:19 AM
No luck I'm afraid, the blue gas tutorial is hiding and the aura technique uses nulls (it was a 50/50)

Here's a tutorial using the same technique (greyscale image to particles), It's not as 'OH MY G*D' as the blue gas tut, but it's down to earth and straightforward.
http://www.auroragrafx.com/Tutorials/pFX_ImageBased/Tut_ImageBased_Pfx.shtml

Lottmedia
08-25-2006, 07:31 AM
I seem to remember that one. It used an animated image sequence from Auora to spread the flames? I tried it with AE at the time to some effect. Wasn't it in HDRI magazine?


Casey :cat:

Phil
08-25-2006, 08:57 AM
No luck I'm afraid, the blue gas tutorial is hiding and the aura technique uses nulls (it was a 50/50)

Here's a tutorial using the same technique (greyscale image to particles), It's not as 'OH MY G*D' as the blue gas tut, but it's down to earth and straightforward.
http://www.auroragrafx.com/Tutorials/pFX_ImageBased/Tut_ImageBased_Pfx.shtml

I need to give this technique a whirl. It might stop my moaning :D First up, I have to finish all the other niggling jobs for this project - the to-do list is growing rather than shrinking :eek:

parm
08-25-2006, 09:07 AM
Thanks to Lottmedia for asking about Glow.

And a massive thanks to connerh for sharing his brilliant solution. Perfect for neon tubes:thumbsup:

connerh
08-25-2006, 12:25 PM
*blush*

Ztreem
08-25-2006, 04:46 PM
You could also use this technique with luxigons and convert them to pointlights to really make things glow and light up the scene. I've used this technique for years and have started to make a tutorial for it, but never found the time to finish it.

Here's some examples.

Phil
08-26-2006, 03:15 AM
Wow. I could hug all of you :) I just wish I'd known about this before :D

T-Light
08-26-2006, 03:28 AM
This thread's really turned out to be a corker :)

Ztreem, could you elaborate? How do you get a glow around the lightsaber using only lights and no 'glow'?

Lottmedia -

Wasn't it in HDRI magazine?
I was sure I'd found it lurking on the net, but you may well be right :)

T-Light
08-26-2006, 04:10 AM
The Blue flame tutorial might have been at this link
http://users.otenet.gr/~nixx/flame_tutorial.htm

Unfortunately the links dead so I can't be sure. He/She has a new website at
http://www.animatethis.gr
but it's just a holding page at the minute.
(could be wrong of course, they may be two completely different people)
[EDIT] -
In fact I could be completely wrong, they might be two different people AND the tutorial might be the wrong one, there's got to be better ways than this to spend a Saturday morning :rolleyes:

Kuzey
08-26-2006, 07:52 AM
The Blue flame tutorial might have been at this link
http://users.otenet.gr/~nixx/flame_tutorial.htm

Unfortunately the links dead so I can't be sure.

Is this it....I got the tip from reading one of jeremyhardin's posts somewhere, but not all the files/movies are not archived.

http://web.archive.org/web/20040723124626/http://users.otenet.gr/~nixx/flame_tutorial.htm


Kuzey

Phil
08-26-2006, 10:48 AM
archive.org seems to be having troubles :(

T-Light
08-26-2006, 11:41 AM
Kuzey -

Is this it....
Indeed it is :)
Phil -

archive.org seems to be having troubles
Well, on the brighter side the vids might be viewable when they get the server sorted out.

Phil
08-26-2006, 12:39 PM
I think I saw this before, but the 5 GB of local 'techniques' stored up don't show it *sigh* Digging further back, I encounter bitrot on the old 7.x backups *sob* Nothing lost, but those disks were less than 5 years old and kept in a box.

ShawnStovall
08-26-2006, 12:58 PM
I'm really sorry, but I couldn't resist!

Simon


Hey, all I said was that I knew how to use spell check...not grammar.:twak:

BloodQuest
08-26-2006, 01:52 PM
It's the darkside...

ShawnStovall
08-26-2006, 02:05 PM
Here is a glow test I did with Perspective Camera, Interpolated Radiosity, 1 light(set to zero), and Ray tracing:

Ztreem
08-28-2006, 03:26 PM
Ztreem, could you elaborate? How do you get a glow around the lightsaber using only lights and no 'glow'?


In this case I used glow on the lightaber but pointlights to get the object to really glow and affect the environment with light without using radiosity. You could of course use volumetric lights to get the glow effect.

T-Light
08-28-2006, 05:56 PM
Cheers Ztreem, I'm with you.

avkills
08-28-2006, 07:25 PM
My biggest complaint with glows is the fact that the pixel radius is completely tied to a global parameter. This should be on a per object basis IMO.

The HyperVoxel solution is pretty cool. Although for what I am doing, I can't use it until I get Nodal shading of voxels. ** hint hint **

-mark

Phil
08-29-2006, 07:24 AM
I'd love a SuperGlow 2 styled system, but I've repeatedly asked over the years, without luck. Hopefully I will be able to press the HV approach into service when I get a spare moment.