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Edu
08-21-2006, 02:12 PM
Just upgraded to 2.0... ˇˇˇWOW!!! :rock:

StereoMike
08-21-2006, 02:50 PM
received my serial today aswell.

Really cool tools, I love the cool boolean features and the floorplan drawing capabilities!

Mike

T-Light
08-21-2006, 07:50 PM
Yup, the new wall tools are amazing, been getting a lot of work done around the house and I've been LW'in it to give us an impression of which way we go. Wish I had those suckers six months ago.
Still, 1.5 got the job done, 2 is soooo much easier.

T-Light
08-21-2006, 07:53 PM
Woah there, StereoMike? What happened, that's a whole new avatar thing goin'

You can't just spring a new image on us without some warning :D

hrgiger
08-21-2006, 08:09 PM
2 is great. No comparison.

gjjackson
08-21-2006, 10:40 PM
I especially like the DCircle etc.

StereoMike
08-21-2006, 11:23 PM
Hey Brent, I wanted to show a little bit of myself- errr: everything that's not green or bathtube in that picture...
I have some more funny ones to come, this one will stay a couple of weeks, then the next will follow... mwhuarhuarhuar...

Mike

oDDity
08-22-2006, 01:19 AM
So, one step closer to one click archviz?
Which verison of LWCAD will just take the plans and instantly build the model for you complete with luxigons, and you just one click it in layout for perfect, realistic radiosity?
What I'm getting at, is that the easier this stuff becomes, the less your services will be worth, since any bozo will be able to do the same job in the same time.

*Pete*
08-22-2006, 01:57 AM
you shouldnt worry oDDity, modelling for Arch viz has been and always will be, very very easy.

better and faster modelling tools only get us to the point where the real art begins much faster, the art of lights, textures and design.

adrian
08-22-2006, 02:04 AM
Glad to hear all the positive vibes about LWCAD2.0 - I got my serial number through yesterday. Still haven't had time to install and play yet, but I will tomorrow or Thursday :)

As for "any bozo will be able to do the same job in the same time." I don't think this will ever happen coz as Pete said, whilst the modelling may be easier (and faster), texturing is an art-form/skill all of it's own. Not to mention lighting.

Then of course you need the skill to press the F9 button :thumbsup:

colkai
08-22-2006, 02:35 AM
Hehe, yup, I mean, gawd forbit you get any tools to make your life easier doing your job.
Get back to pencil and drawing board the lot of ya! ;) :p

Seriously though, LWCAD2 is a breath of fresh air, it's going to make a lot of what I have to do a heck of a lot smoother and painless. :D

hrgiger
08-22-2006, 02:44 AM
So, one step closer to one click archviz?
Which verison of LWCAD will just take the plans and instantly build the model for you complete with luxigons, and you just one click it in layout for perfect, realistic radiosity?
What I'm getting at, is that the easier this stuff becomes, the less your services will be worth, since any bozo will be able to do the same job in the same time.

Have you even used LWCAD 2 yet? Or are you just talking out of your a$s again?
There is nothing "one click" about LWCAD 2. It just takes a lot of drudergy out of certain modeling operations. The wall tool lets you lay down a double spline for extrusion, as opposed to making two splines individually or copying one and offsetting. The real time booleans let you see your operations in real time before you commit to the cut. Tools like profiler and engraver add detail and let you see all your options in real time, again before you commit. Precise snapping and measuring tools allow you unparalleled accuracy. There is so much more in LWCAD 2 and yet nothing about it is one click to make a model. There is no "instant floor plan" button or "instant architecture".
Despite your Huxleyish Brave new world fears, no bozo is going to pick up LWCAD 2 and do the same job that someone who knows anything about Arch viz is able to do. So please, get a clue.

oDDity
08-22-2006, 05:35 AM
If you had learned to read at shcool, you would have noticed that I said 'which future verison' will be able to do those things. It's a certainty that a near future app will be able to build a complete 3d building from plans, future verisons of lightwave will surely have more advanced luxigons that can be set up in modeler from markings on the pans to give precise results in layout for accurate lighting, furniture packs that are auto postioned according to makrking on plans etc. Radiosity solutions are becoming more accurate and faster, and processors are getting faster also, so there will no longer be any skill in achieving realistic lighting at short render times...none of these things are very far away either.

What are you left with? Slapping a brick texture on the walls and hitting F9?
We all know archviz isn't art, it's a technical exercise, it's precise in nature, mathematical almost, realism is the key, and that's the sort of task that can be automated quite easily.

Edu
08-22-2006, 05:51 AM
don't panic, with today's technology it's still hard to create some algorithm to recreate creativity or good taste... as for MS Word, you have a bunch of good grammar and spelling correction tools or style advisors, but tere's no guarantee you'll write the next best seller...

By the way, soft is only a tool, and it still depends on ourselves to create something that could stand from the mediocrity...

oDDity
08-22-2006, 06:13 AM
That's just my point though, archviz doens't really require creativity.
Most of the time you have plans with exact numbers which produce geometric shapes.
Coming up with a realistic lighting model is not creative, it's trying to replicate physics.
Furniture/plants/cars/people etc can come from packs you can buy dirt cheap these days.
The most creative part is the texturing, and that's hardly a difficult or skilled job when it comes to archviz.
All I'm sying is, that perhaps you shouldn't be so enthusiastic every time a new app or plugin comes along and makes things quicker and easier, because soon it's going to be so quick easy you won't be in the equation. Add that to the incresing populartiy of CG in general among young people.

colkai
08-22-2006, 06:19 AM
We all know archviz isn't art, it's a technical exercise, it's precise in nature, mathematical almost

Modelling a human, you have to follow the rules laid down by anatomy, bone structure, muscle grouping and so forth. You can 'express your artistic side' to a degree in how the persons face may look, but then, if you are going for realism, you are restricted to obeying rules there too.
There is a technical apsect to both, take a look at some of the outlandish buildings in the world today, those are not just borne of a purely technical mind.

That's just my point though, archviz doens't really require creativity.
Sorry, that smacks of 'purism', it can't be art because it's a building.

In any discipline, you follow rules, if you want something to look real, be it human, imagined creature or building. However, the true final step is what you then do with those rules, that, I truly think, cannot be automated.
Poser .. uughh (rinses mouth), they are going for automated people, slap on a preset UV texture and off you go. It may suck now, but in future versions, who's to say they won't get everything anatomically perfect, then there is no room for character artists. Just grab a preset person, slap on a preset texture, slap on some mocap and hit F9.

Art has rules, composition, light, etc..etc... so you could agrue that sooner or later, a computer could take all these rules and produce art all by itself.
To be honest, since I started using computers back in the dim and distant past, this argument has been going. I really don't see it happening in any time frame I will be worrying about. We are just wired in such a way that I cannot see any peice of software being able to come close to mimicking what we do in that respect within our short lifespans.

Will we get better tools to help us do our work, absolutely, anything from "Massive" to creature creation software, from LWCAD to Poser to Vue-Infinite and beyond.
If we choose not to use the tools, does that make us a better 'artist' or just less productive?

As long as LWCAd keeps refining things to speed my workflow up, I'll be a happy camper. After all, isn't that one reason folks are whining about LW9 not being enough? Because they want better, more productive, easier to use tools? NOT because it may make their work redundant, but to speed up their work and make them MORE productive.

lilrayray77
08-22-2006, 06:20 AM
But what if you dont have plans? What if you are creating from your imagination? Could this not be art? Or does architecture not classify as art? You had better stay ou of the cities, they are full with artisit who create buildings.

umstitch
08-22-2006, 06:34 AM
..The most creative part is the texturing, and that's hardly a difficult or skilled job when it comes to archviz.

..and when the "build me a copy of a copy of a picture that someone else did"
application comes out, does that mean you re out of a hobby?

..its hilarious to watch you peddle misery and decrepitude, but its of no conseqeunce to professional artists/technicians, who continue to learn new ways of expressing their ideas...

...others, like yourself follow along a little later.
..(everyone knows pressing f9 is the most creative thing you actually do, at the end of the day, and i presume we all do it..)

umstitch
08-22-2006, 06:43 AM
..You had better stay ou of the cities, they are full with artisit who create buildings.

..thats right, in fact the world is full of every kind of artist, which niggles some people^

umstitch
08-22-2006, 06:47 AM
..nope just checked odds site, he has a coupla archvis pics, but they look like they were done by a computer to me, not a criticism:agree:

Wonderpup
08-22-2006, 07:37 AM
All I'm sying is, that perhaps you shouldn't be so enthusiastic every time a new app or plugin comes along and makes things quicker and easier, because soon it's going to be so quick easy you won't be in the equation.


I think this is a misunderstanding. The time when technology is enough on it's own to allow even unskilled people to impress with it is when it's a novelty. As the market matures and the novelty factor wears off, people become more aware of the differences between those who 'have the eye' and those who simply push buttons. The fact that you may have hordes of 'kids' churning out mediocre Arch Viz will simply serve to make more clear the difference between the skilled and the unskilled.

colkai
08-22-2006, 08:22 AM
Yup, there are those already who are qucik to jump on work they feel is below them or 'mediocre at best', ain't no reason to assume that will change regardless of technology. There were those that said photography was a passing phase and would never catch on. There are those who think no good art came from the last few decades. Heck, I can even recall myself saying the PC was a passing fad and no "serious computer professional" would consider using one, a view shared by many of my collegues.
There are artists who feel anyone using a computer to generate "art" are not really creating "true" art.
None of the above had any impact on art produced apart from, if anything, exploring new avenues.
Yet here we are, still plodding along. :p

adrian
08-22-2006, 08:26 AM
You could use another example, re: more technology making it "easier" to create good stuff: synthesisers. Look at the complex and awesome synths out today.... you still need to have that artistic talent to get the most of of them though.

Ok, not graphics related but the same kind of argument.

For me personally I'm hoping LWCAD will make it "easier" (less time consuming) for me to create entire cities/communities of buildings. I look forward to finding out :rolleyes:

colkai
08-22-2006, 08:43 AM
It's bound to.
I have Floorplan3D, which I had hoped had the abilities of LWCAD with 'auto-room' create. Great for knocking up fast houses, but it fell flat on the quality of the models it produced and as for roof-levels...Arrghhh.

When LWCAD came out, it was a kick to be able to do that sort of stuff in LW directly, now, with LWCAD2, it just raises the bar. I'd still like it to go even further, with any luck, it will do. :)

Anything that cuts down the monotony of building walls and rooms and ceilings, cutting out windows, making coving etc... :p

ericsmith
08-22-2006, 09:52 AM
Oddity,

It's fairly clear from reviewing your work that you really don't yet have an understanding of lighting from an artistic point of view.

All a professional photographer has to do is point the camera and push a button, right? So why are there professional photographers?

They make a good living because they have studied and understand the artistic priciples of composition and lighting design (among other things).

No matter how sophisticated 3d software gets, it will never choose the right camera composition, or design the lighting in a way that is not only realistic, but also athstetic. It is often true that an archvis 3d artist doen't design the archetecture, but there is still plenty of room for the 3d artist to convey the subject that an architech designed in an artistic way.

Eric

SP00
08-22-2006, 10:04 AM
I think everything will get easier, but that doesn't mean that demand will decrease, it just means demand will shift to other areas. Kinda like how PC made our lives easier, but gave us more work at the same time. The key is to keep up or get left behind.

But there is also the custom/detail aspect that a one button program can never fulfill. Take Vue 5, I can create a beautiful scenery in about 1 minute, but when I tried to create anything specific, it still took a few days.

My instructor told me to look at the camcorder. Everyone now has one, but not everyone can make a good movie. I think the same applies to 3D.

Pavlov
08-22-2006, 10:11 AM
Oddity,
i quite agree easy tools will make our service less worth, but services will become more evolute then. there's always a direct application of tools - like you can do now by modeling and throwing the obj into Maxwell, but there's also a great margin for personal talent and creativity, even in arcviz.
By now, the true fron-end of archviz is animation of complex projects. This is not easy, and if you take 100 guys, you'll get 100 different works - exactly like other fields like charanim.
Lighting, camera works, color usage (a brick is always a brick, true ? wrong...), image composition, control of atmosphere and much more make arch viz a quite difficult thing, if you want to get an art-result.
Paradoxally, when tools will be so powerful as you say, it will be the moment where only personal talent will count ;)
Again, in that moment you will have full character creation tools and auto-riggers (it's already happening) or preanimated sequences to drag and drop on your character. Same for all 3D worlds..

Paolo

hrgiger
08-22-2006, 10:46 AM
If you had learned to read at shcool, you would have noticed that I said 'which future verison' will be able to do those things.


Well actually you said:


Which verison of LWCAD...

Which would lead most of us who have learned to read in school that you were referring to one of the few versions of LWCAD available and not some mystic 'future' version which you conveniently referred to after the fact.

BTW, I actually learned to read before I was in school.

tonybliss
08-22-2006, 11:11 AM
My dear oDDity you certainly live up to your name.
For whatever reason people bash you for your opinions.
Best advice in related cases ...

.... stay silent ....stay sane

bryphi7
08-22-2006, 11:22 AM
I am pretty sure oddity's sanity is not riding on this thread...
Who is the bigger "A" hole... The guy with an opinion that didn't single anyone out personally, or the rest of you that went out of your way to bash odditys point of view and try to make him feel stupid!

T-Light
08-22-2006, 11:38 AM
Oddity's talking about software taking a prebuilt design and creating a renderable 3D model from it. I think He's right, that kind of ability within software isn't far away at all.

BUT...
LWCad isn't (just) about reproducing someone else's work. It's about giving LW users the ability to create their own technical designs with professional cad tools. Anyone who's tried to be build a property with intricate features will know how long that takes with LW's toolset.

LWCad simply lets your creative juices flow faster.

hrgiger
08-22-2006, 12:04 PM
I am pretty sure oddity's sanity is not riding on this thread...
Who is the bigger "A" hole... The guy with an opinion that didn't single anyone out personally, or the rest of you that went out of your way to bash odditys point of view and try to make him feel stupid!

How about the guy that brings the term "A" hole into this discussion?

tonybliss
08-22-2006, 12:18 PM
I am pretty sure oddity's sanity is not riding on this thread...
Who is the bigger "A" hole... The guy with an opinion that didn't single anyone out personally, or the rest of you that went out of your way to bash odditys point of view and try to make him feel stupid!

Please note bryphi69 no rein kuso that I was not bashing Odd man here, but simply observing how usually his opinions (which DO have value like everyone else's) usually cause disputes and derails a thread last time was cg models, et al). No fault of his.
LISTEN I am a very frank person who speaks his mind, yet it is important for me to keep 'some' of my opinions to myself to avoid CONFLICT.
...but this time I will say that when next you BRYPHI69 NO KUSO decide to vent your pent up angers against the (m)asses, THINK, PUCKER UP and use your HANDS instead.

CHEERS!! and have a 4king cherry day ... the lot of ya!!!

adrian
08-22-2006, 03:50 PM
Ughhhh!!!!! Well, I hope this thing is easier to use than it is to install it!!!

Got to the entering LWCAD1.5 serial number bit and.... invalid serial number :thumbsdow

Oh well.... mailed Wtools... hopefully they'll get back to me soon...

<<<<---- FRUSTRATED! ---->>>>

tonybliss
08-22-2006, 08:37 PM
They are usually very quick with custumer support. Good luck Adrian!!
... and yes it is easier to use :)

PS You can do a search for LWCAD install and see if there was a related post if all else fails.

Cheers!

dgon64
08-22-2006, 10:31 PM
adrian,maybe I misunderstood your post but if you have LWCAD2.0 you get a new serial number for that so using your 1.5 serial number won't work-as far as I remember.

Edu
08-23-2006, 01:40 AM
he, he... yes, LWCAD has demonstrated his power inspiring this exciting thread that I've read meticulously.

Well, now seriously... when I wrote my "deep" thought in the shape of a "wow", I was only describing my feelings from a part-time artist... I have (by now...) neither knowledges nor any interest about CAD or architecture building (professionaly speaking), so for me, when I tested first the LWCAD 2 tools, it was as Colkai described... "breath of fresh air" and a powerful set of tools to help myself to materialize my ideas and inspitrations...

Piet Mondrian made his ecognized work with simple basic coloured boxes on a canvas... I should easily duplicate his style because it's based on simple forms than everyone can use... but the matter, it's not how easy you can "construct" shapes on a surface to get a masterpieces, but what you're trying to tell or express with that... (and of course, if you're successful enough to get this comunnication with the viewer, or at least, bring out some kind of feeling - good or bad feelings, don't mind - )

For this reason, as LW has become since the earlys 5.5's, in one of my beloved tools to experiment with new digital art experiences and lucky enough to be able to finance it with monthly small remunerated projects, I'm easily excitable with every little improvement (and LWCAD 2 is a big one) that LW could give me.

Well... I think that's enough for today...

oDDity
08-23-2006, 01:56 AM
Hehe, ok, I admit it, I get kicks out of this. You guys are so easy to hook, it's hard to resist, especially now that you're looking for any excuse to throw a punch in my direction. I know exactly how to push your buttons, especially hrgigers, who's buttons are big and red with pictures instead of words.

StereoMike
08-23-2006, 02:37 AM
If I wanted to go offtopic I would say "if that is what drives you, you don't have many friends, or you call vegetables and bricks your friends." but gladly I was able to stop myself before saying such things.

I'd rather stay ontopic and say:
"Does anybody now, what the wtools guys are working on now? Updates? What could be updated? Seems perfect to me."

Mike

Phil
08-23-2006, 02:42 AM
Hehe, ok, I admit it, I get kicks out of this. You guys are so easy to hook, it's hard to resist, especially now that you're looking for any excuse to throw a punch in my direction. I know exactly how to push your buttons, especially hrgigers, who's buttons are big and red with pictures instead of words.

Why do you persist in inviting such punches to be thrown your way? What value does it bring to you or anyone else? *sigh* Almost every post you make seems intended to irritate, offend and generally cause trouble.

You getting 'kicks' out of it hardly seems a rational explanation, at least to me.

hrgiger
08-23-2006, 02:51 AM
Hehe, ok, I admit it, I get kicks out of this. You guys are so easy to hook, it's hard to resist, especially now that you're looking for any excuse to throw a punch in my direction. I know exactly how to push your buttons, especially hrgigers, who's buttons are big and red with pictures instead of words.

Well, you certainly have me pegged. The sheer genius at work here is staggering. :rolleyes:

I don't care what you post oDDity. I don't need to point out how socially retarded you are. I just find it interesting how quick you are to comment so much on something you know so little about.

ColinSmith
08-23-2006, 02:51 AM
Oddity's talking about software taking a prebuilt design and creating a renderable 3D model from it. I think He's right, that kind of ability within software isn't far away at all.


It seems pretty hard to get an architect that can draw building plans that have external elevations that are consistant with each other, never mind stairways and that kind of detail - I wonder what the software will make of that? :)

Darth Mole
08-23-2006, 02:55 AM
Jeez, oDDity, why don't you get a proper hobby instead of baiting LW users? Or are you trying to get your *** kicked off the forum - becasue this kind of stuff is neither helful nor constructive.

Your comment is essentially true, but you can't stop progress. What if someone creates a stock fantasy figure creator - then you're out of a job too. And when MIT produces an imagination solidifier which makes your thoughts into solid materials then we can all give up and slob out watching daytime TV all the time.

I bought the upgrade to LWCAD2 - that don't make me an arch viz artist by a loooong stretch...

parm
08-23-2006, 03:16 AM
"Does anybody now, what the wtools guys are working on now? Updates? What could be updated? Seems perfect to me."
Mike


Increasing the point limit on the 'Curve Tool' would be a big improvement. Currently limited to 8 points.

tyrot
08-23-2006, 03:18 AM
dear oddi

archviz can be an artform. If you create a building from a scratch and make it 3d and render it. that is art. Process can be slightly different than Aalto 's or wright's workflow process but result can be pretty artistic.

If we make a 3d model from already done sketch or cad file and add lights and add textures etc etc..IT can be also an art. If interior architect doesnt give you all details...

Arch viz at the end (in my case) doesnt have to be an art form...I get architect's cad files..i analyzed that ...try to find most easy to render light setup and go to F9. But sometimes they leave whole interior to me and i come up with some ideas can be artistic in its minor perspective. But i still wouldnt call i make an artistic stuff.

In arch viz currently only section i call it artistic that modelling part..I never use any library...Because i see the same sofa, same table, same cabinet but only different lighting.. If architect gives me freedom, i remodel everything. So if modelling a chair or sofa is an art (you should call it art...otherwise you simply deny whole interior art movements..from gothic to minimalistic).

In LWCAD series..i have only one reply...You dont know what you are talking about. I have no idea about anatomy i dont talk overthere..you should do the same thing on LWCAD..and other arch related plugins...

Because the theory you are driving your thoughts in, totally one sided. If you think like that about LWCAD you can think like that on FPRIME too..or even Lightwave. How about starting to write your own code and making your own 3d programme..I mean full hardcore..

For what? we are all trying to make money from clients. Their construction style has changed over the years..they are using constantly different construction metarials..to BUILD their houses, apartments much easy..But it DOESNT reduce the actual cost of the apartment for a buyer..does it? SO our fast workflow is an interior process it doesnt change the price of our daily work.

There is Poser for years. But you know how industry reacts that type of programmes...the AUTOMATED arch viz solutions will be doomed. No matter what clients want to and pay to individual solutions...Because no matter what they try to make individual buildings. If they dont, they will lose their clients as well.. so worry not... you have more things to worry about in terms of art..

DO BETTER

colkai
08-23-2006, 03:26 AM
I know exactly how to push your buttons, especially hrgigers, who's buttons are big and red with pictures instead of words.
I think nothing more need be said here then, thanks for confirming my opinion of your behaviour.

Pavlov
08-23-2006, 03:27 AM
I hope w-tools is working on:
- DWG I/O
- new, interactive patching tools
- other Osnapped tools like knifing tools, extruding tools, beveling tools, other detailing tools. Unless NT is working at Masterclass plugins in Modeler so he could program a full-osnap engine at the roots of modeling. Or unless NT complete merging of module soon so we'll have Osnap in layout.

Paolo

T-Light
08-23-2006, 03:28 AM
ColinSmith -

It seems pretty hard to get an architect that can draw building plans that have external elevations that are consistant with each other, never mind stairways and that kind of detail - I wonder what the software will make of that?
:D :D :D
I agree, if it's really top notch software, then it ought to come up with exactly the same rubbish as an architect. Seriously though, I was on about full on 3D cad plans, rather than the 2D stuff :)

Darth Mole -

imagination solidifier which makes your thoughts into solid materials then we can all give up and slob out watching daytime TV
Jees that's some side effect, How many waver's are gonna use an 'imagination solidifier' if the result is an IQ you can count on your fingers (or not, as the case may be). :D

adrian
08-23-2006, 04:09 AM
To bring a little light relief into this rapidly descending thread of all-out warfare, I got a quick response from Wtools3D, and I have now successfully installed/upgraded my version of LWCAD2.0 :ohmy::ohmy: :D :D

The problem was Newtek-Europe hadn't sent (or activated) my 1.5 number to Wtools, so it wasn't me going mad :)

Thanks NE & Wtools3D for getting on the case so efficiently - great customer service as always :thumbsup:

tonybliss
08-23-2006, 04:11 AM
Odd man you sappy cheeky c4nt :P

Relating to the topic ... LWCAD from my experience is one of the fastest developing plugins around apart from True Arts plugins.
Viktor knows his stuff, I do intend to do other tutorials other than arch vis stuff using LWCAD ... you know like Mechanical Drawings ... et al.
Take this thread for example, this illustrates how much they listen and even how quicker they respond
http://www.spinquad.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13322
Post 5 and 6

Skonk
08-23-2006, 04:13 AM
Got my upgrade to 2 on monday and i love it, hard was hard to imagine how 2.0 could have been that much of an improvement over the already fantastic 1.5 but man was i wrong, version 2 is soooooo much better :)

colkai
08-23-2006, 04:45 AM
I did like the 'knife' in 1.5 though, it made postitioning door points etc a lot easier, it's just a little more hassle now having to switch to a different boolean mode to create door/windows. Plus, the knife, dragging the middle 'anchor' allowed one to slide the cut point along the curves. I'm hoping these things will find their way back into LWCAD2.

oDDity
08-23-2006, 04:54 AM
It seems pretty hard to get an architect that can draw building plans that have external elevations that are consistant with each other, never mind stairways and that kind of detail - I wonder what the software will make of that? :)

Well, obviously better cad software will go hand in hand with everything else. Nothing stays still for long in CG. If you can get you architect to draw a more detailed plan using his better software, good enough for a second app to build it, furnish it from packs, and light it with luxigon type objects that the render can use for a physically correct lighting simulation, all in a few minutes, then that's what you'd do. You wouldn't pay some third party guys to spend a week making it.
I know the same will eventually be true of characters and everything else as well, that's why I'm not happy with every new advance in technology and computing power.
Niothing can be done about progress of course, but you don't have to like it.
You can stick your head in the sand and say 'it doesn't affect me, it's all in the future', but it's not that far away, not even 10 years away.

Bytehawk
08-23-2006, 05:12 AM
but all that programming aint gonna be free....

tyrot
08-23-2006, 05:25 AM
You can stick your head in the sand and say 'it doesn't affect me, it's all in the future', but it's not that far away, not even 10 years away.

dear oddi

so what s your suggestion about present days..which is giving us cash? What would you recommend us to do?

New CG technology means New areas to earn money. To earn money you have to shift your business for normal changes.. that s what i m gonna do..and many others here will do...

But if you have another plan except warning us from unavoidable changes just write it..

DO BETTER

Verlon
08-23-2006, 06:02 AM
This is simple. As tools make it easier to do arch-viz, the real arch-viz pros will simply raise the standards of the work they do. Has YOUR work become more realistic with the addition of better lighting, raytracing, texture maps, and UV maps? (assuming you have been around long enough to see these happen)

Saying someone isn't an artist because they do arch-vis is like saying a classical pianist isn't a musician because they play Beethoven.

If I put the sheet music in front of you, can you play Chopin? Or does that take some skill? Even if you have the skill, do you play it EXACTLY like it says down to the picosecond, or is there something of you in what you play?

People who have devted there lives to music for longer than you and I have been alive (combined) seem to think the artist DOES matter in just that circumstance.

I am certain this will be true in Lightwave.

Photography didn't put the painters out of business.

CGI didn't end practical FX.

LWCAD wn't end arch-viz.

ColinSmith
08-23-2006, 06:15 AM
Well, obviously better cad software will go hand in hand with everything else. Nothing stays still for long in CG. If you can get you architect to draw a more detailed plan using his better software,

My point was really that CAD software is good enough to be able to make an accurate model/drawing at the moment, it is just not being used to it's full advantage.

New and improved CAD/modleing/rendering software and inter software workflows will be great for speeding things up, but the general client / architect will not use those either.

I see a lot of simple building design faults that would have been obvious if the project had been built in 3d in a CAD system, but that is not what they do. It is already very easy to do with exisiting software, it's hard to see how much easier it needs to be before they take it up.

ericsmith
08-23-2006, 09:37 AM
In the late 80's - early 90's, a lot of graphic designers thought that Pagemaker and desktop Macs would be the end of their careers. And for a short time, there were tons of wanabees who bought a Mac and Pagemaker, and the market was saturated with a lot of really inexpensive, bad designers. It didn't last long.

The advent of digital cameras and photoshop had a lot of pro photographers worried a few years later. But there are still plenty of photographers making a good living today.

What it comes down to is that any tool is worthless without the knowlege of how to use it. And anyone who creates images for a living, and has been trained in the concepts of design, will do well, no matter what tools come along.

Eric

hrgiger
08-23-2006, 11:19 AM
I know the same will eventually be true of characters and everything else as well, that's why I'm not happy with every new advance in technology and computing power.
Niothing can be done about progress of course, but you don't have to like it.
You can stick your head in the sand and say 'it doesn't affect me, it's all in the future', but it's not that far away, not even 10 years away.

Technology just goes this way. Years ago, you really had to know something about computers to work with them. You actually had to understand how a computer worked and how to make the most of the limited processing and memory resources you had. These days, Feebleminded friendly OSs' like Windows and MacOS make it pretty much available to most people who can read at the 3rd grade level.
Those people who aren't experienced graphics professionals might be able to do something impressive by todays standards using the technology of tomorrow. But the actual experienced users will be most likely doing something even more amazing that we can't even imagine now. I don't think in 10 years, computing will put everyone on an equal playing field. The computer will never be able to add the human experience, at least, probably not in any of our lifetimes.
I'm not sure why you would be against such advances. It's up to you to keep pace.

bryphi7
08-23-2006, 11:54 AM
Please note bryphi69 no rein kuso that I was not bashing Odd man here, but simply observing how usually his opinions (which DO have value like everyone else's) usually cause disputes and derails a thread last time was cg models, et al). No fault of his.
LISTEN I am a very frank person who speaks his mind, yet it is important for me to keep 'some' of my opinions to myself to avoid CONFLICT.
...but this time I will say that when next you BRYPHI69 NO KUSO decide to vent your pent up angers against the (m)asses, THINK, PUCKER UP and use your HANDS instead.

CHEERS!! and have a 4king cherry day ... the lot of ya!!!

By all the homo erotic overtones in your post... I would have to call you gay.
cghomo please don't take your anger out on me. It is not my fault that LW and NT fell about a 1000 miles short of being a competitive app...

hrgiger
08-23-2006, 12:25 PM
By all the homo erotic overtones in your post... I would have to call you gay.


Wow, not only referring to some as "A" holes, but now you're being homophobic as well?

You're a real class act bryphi7. 5 stars.

tonybliss
08-23-2006, 12:36 PM
Yes Bryphi69, I am gay

..... you can just ask my two sons and wife they will confirm it for you ....
Well the rest was said by HR.

Betcha you probably amost killed yourself thinking up of that pedantic comeback!!
Next time think harder and finish the job :)

Cheers !!

bryphi7
08-23-2006, 12:40 PM
You're a real class act bryphi7. 5 stars.

Thank you... Thank you....:agree:

Did I say I was afraid of gay people...NO!
I said... by the sound of cghomo's post, I would have to say he was gay.
I think you guys need to relax a tad bit, this is a forum for everyone to voice their opinion, and not have to worry about it getting attacked by the fanboy possey...Got it :thumbsup:

Signal to Noise
08-23-2006, 12:45 PM
There's a difference in voicing an opinion and name calling which is what you're doing.

Phil
08-23-2006, 12:59 PM
Thank you... Thank you....:agree:

Did I say I was afraid of gay people...NO!
I said... by the sound of cghomo's post, I would have to say he was gay.
I think you guys need to relax a tad bit, this is a forum for everyone to voice their opinion, and not have to worry about it getting attacked by the fanboy possey...Got it :thumbsup:

Does that mean I can call you a complete and total idiot & that you won't be offended? After all....I am simply stating an opinion, although it would probably be bordering on fact based on your behaviour.

What is it with people in this thread? Between you and oddity, it's a complete disaster *sigh*

bryphi7
08-23-2006, 01:12 PM
There's a difference in voicing an opinion and name calling which is what you're doing.


I think you better reread the thread...

krimpr
08-23-2006, 01:16 PM
Does that mean I can call you a complete and total idiot & that you won't be offended? After all....I am simply stating an opinion, although it would probably be bordering on fact based on your behaviour.

What is it with people in this thread? Between you and oddity, it's a complete disaster *sigh*

Sorry I can't agree with you there Phil. It isn't limited to this thread. If it was, it would be only too easy to skip over it.

bryphi7
08-23-2006, 01:17 PM
Does that mean I can call you a complete and total idiot & that you won't be offended? After all....I am simply stating an opinion, although it would probably be bordering on fact based on your behaviour.

What is it with people in this thread? Between you and oddity, it's a complete disaster *sigh*

call me what you like...I can take it!

Just for the record... I love LWCAD2.

hrgiger
08-23-2006, 01:17 PM
Did I say I was afraid of gay people...NO!
I said... by the sound of cghomo's post, I would have to say he was gay.


And even if he was gay, why in the h#ll would that matter in this discussion? Why woud you even mention it unless you were saying it in an attempt to insult him?

By the way, look up homophobia sometime. It doesn't have anything to do with being afraid of gays, it has to do with bigotry. Which you've showcased here spectacularly.

bryphi7
08-23-2006, 01:19 PM
Please note bryphi69 no rein kuso that I was not bashing Odd man here, but simply observing how usually his opinions (which DO have value like everyone else's) usually cause disputes and derails a thread last time was cg models, et al). No fault of his.
LISTEN I am a very frank person who speaks his mind, yet it is important for me to keep 'some' of my opinions to myself to avoid CONFLICT.
...but this time I will say that when next you BRYPHI69 NO KUSO decide to vent your pent up angers against the (m)asses, THINK, PUCKER UP and use your HANDS instead.

CHEERS!! and have a 4king cherry day ... the lot of ya!!!

What is this??? kind words...

tonybliss
08-23-2006, 01:44 PM
....mostly yes :P

tonybliss
08-23-2006, 01:49 PM
Bryphi7, i DO apologise for my arrogance towards you. It makes no sense to GO on. 4CK the bitter words. I am quite sure you may agree YOURSELF!!!

truce my good man and read between the lines at all times in life.
Cheers and good luck :)

Darth Mole
08-23-2006, 03:46 PM
What the **** happened to this thread? First we get a plague of oDDness, and now its all gone rude and shouty.

I dunno, I leave you alone for ONE day...

tonybliss
08-23-2006, 04:34 PM
Sorry mom...or dad :(
but I did try to PATCH open ends


Bryphi7, i DO apologise for my arrogance towards you. It makes no sense to GO on. 4CK the bitter words. I am quite sure you may agree YOURSELF!!!

truce my good man and read between the lines at all times in life.
Cheers and good luck

Bytehawk
08-23-2006, 06:08 PM
poor keyboards. I can imagine them typing these while bashing every single letter asif they're on an old fashioned typewriter.

tonybliss
08-23-2006, 06:38 PM
I am on my third keyboard since this bleedy thread ....