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View Full Version : Sasquatch not working with 9?????!!!!!



spec24
08-18-2006, 08:30 PM
I have now loaded two scenes utilizing Sasquatch with this "new and improved" version of LW and it crashes every single time Sasquatch starts to render. Version 8 does not crash. Turning off Sasquacth and the scene renders fine. Has anyone else experienced this?

g4dual
08-19-2006, 02:22 AM
On my PC, sasquatch work fine with LW 9 :thumbsup:

pixelinfected
08-19-2006, 03:25 AM
actually seems that sas have problems on new camera, be cause it build with own render the fur then apply it with postpro plugin, i send sample image to worley, but i think they must update sas to build with different camera, in the last update probably they not thought about this possibility and fur gone from surface
anyway sas and sas lite work fine with perspective and classic camera, here a combo render of that.

spec24
08-19-2006, 06:46 AM
hmm. Thanks for the replies. Any one have any ideas why this would happen? I have loaded two different scenes both use Sas and work fine on 8. But now bot hscenes crash :(

pixelinfected
08-19-2006, 06:52 AM
if you could post scene, is better.
try to open scene, open sas panels, change a minor thing, re save scene, reload and try to render.
lw write on scene parameters of disp plugins, and if you change some thing, it write over settings, i can think that there are some problems on some parameters.

try to open standard scene of sas and test the render on it, to find if there are problem on sas, or your actual lw config.

i have a very complex lw configuration with a bunch of free and custom plugins, and all work fine.
try with a lw with standard plugin and sas only.

UnCommonGrafx
08-19-2006, 08:43 AM
Yeah,
Spec24, the fix, at least for me, has been to delete the pixelfilter and then add it back. Instant end of crash.

Let us know if that helps.

spec24
08-19-2006, 09:42 AM
no such luck with any of the ideas. Thanks guys. However, I loaded up a ball and applied sasquatch and it worked. So there must be something else. I'm using tifs for my hair maps. Maybe that's it. Who knows. Honestly - I'm getting mighty tired of these kinds of things :(

hmm - tried a few different scenes from before. They seem to work fine. But I have a wolf and a coyote and a Bear that just will not render. Guess I'll have to delve deeper. Thanks to everyone for your suggestions.

pixelinfected
08-19-2006, 11:08 AM
uhm, did you have last version of sas?
i try to load scene that i did with lw5.6 and work fine. but i not use maps .

spec24
08-19-2006, 02:55 PM
Well, Worley had the answer. Seems there's a bug in 9 that the display and the render subdivision settings have to be exactly the same. I set them both equal and sure enough no more crashes. Thank you Steve!

zapper1998
10-23-2006, 04:25 AM
Well, Worley had the answer. Seems there's a bug in 9 that the display and the render subdivision settings have to be exactly the same. I set them both equal and sure enough no more crashes. Thank you Steve!
cool will try that, have the same problem...:lwicon:

Dodgy
10-23-2006, 05:17 AM
Yeah, don't use the global camera settings (sas can't see them at the moment) and keep your sub-d levels the same and you shouldn't have any problems.

zapper1998
10-23-2006, 05:40 AM
Ya so far so good, except for the fact the sub-d level, good thing LW 9 can handle the large sub-d level, 20+ on the character head, 1 million, should lower it a little....I am buying FF IV, thats it, Sas made my mind up...
Thank you
Michael

Sensei
10-23-2006, 06:35 AM
FF4 needs frozen mesh according Proton posts and video on SpinQuad, so there is no Sub-D at all if you want hair guides ;)

sammael
10-23-2006, 10:29 AM
I have this same problem... its giving me the sh*ts. Im using aps on the mesh so I would say thats not helping, the strange thing is that sometimes it works but then ill add an object or modify an existing object and its buggered again. Then I spend the next day or 2 tweaking settings and mirraculously it will work again, theres no rhyme or reason to it, each time I fix it its a different setting or combination of setting that I tweaked to get it working. Its sending me to the depths of despair :cry:

Sensei
10-23-2006, 01:02 PM
LW9's APS can't be used by ANY 3rd party plug-in due it was designed... It's completely dynamically generated during rendering..

sammael
10-24-2006, 07:21 AM
LW9's APS can't be used by ANY 3rd party plug-in due it was designed... It's completely dynamically generated during rendering..
Do you think its using the per polly subd info then? because it does work... sometimes.

Sensei
10-24-2006, 07:36 AM
Do you think its using the per polly subd info then? because it does work... sometimes.

It uses what LW v8.5 and older versions used.. In other words default settings when you load object without touching APS - Per Object Level.. And make sure Sub-D level is the same for display and render.. Anything else is pure luck or lack of luck..

tibes
10-24-2006, 07:57 AM
FF4 needs frozen mesh according Proton posts and video on SpinQuad, so there is no Sub-D at all if you want hair guides ;)

Not strictly true, FF4 doesn't work on APS meshes, but works okay on regular sub-d meshes. I think what Proton was referring to is to actually "see" the sub-divided shape in the hair modeller you need to freeze the mesh otherwise it displays at sub-d level 0 (base mesh) - but this is isolated to the modeller plugin only. The fur/hair renders fine once you've made the guides - no biggy.

sammael
10-24-2006, 08:26 AM
Do you think its using the per polly subd info then? because it does work... sometimes.
Are you telling me that it does not work at all on an aps object? or just that you need to have your subpatch settings the same in viewport and render in the object properties as well as turining on aps?

Sensei
10-24-2006, 08:33 AM
Yes, SasQuatch doesn't work on APS objects, and what you observe is just pure luck.. SasQuatch is 5 year older than APS, and there is no single sign of APS in LW SDK v9, so even in SasQuatch v1.8 there was no chance to support them.. I was discussing this issue with Steve more than half year ago..

Sensei
10-24-2006, 08:40 AM
Not strictly true, FF4 doesn't work on APS meshes, but works okay on regular sub-d meshes. I think what Proton was referring to is to actually "see" the sub-divided shape in the hair modeller you need to freeze the mesh otherwise it displays at sub-d level 0 (base mesh) - but this is isolated to the modeller plugin only. The fur/hair renders fine once you've made the guides - no biggy.

I must appologize, my fault.. Obviously I was refering to hair modeler (LW SDK doesn't have freezing polygon functions that work in Modeler, just in Layout; for the same reason Virtual Mirror has no support for Sub-D)

Do you have FF4? Can you tell me what kind of hair guides FF needs? I need this info for making TrueHair generating hair guides for FF4 too, currently it works fine with SasQuatch hair guides (2 point polygons for hair and 1 point polygon with different surface at root)..

tibes
10-24-2006, 08:45 AM
Not strictly true, FF4 doesn't work on APS meshes

Actually - just realised this is my bad - it does work on APS meshes, so long as subdivision order is set to "first" anything else causes Lightwave to crash. The fact it works at all with APS is fantastic though, as it means you basically get LOD senstive hair coverage!

There are other issues with setting sub-d order to "last" with FF4 in relation to displacements which I've emailed Jon about, hopefully a fix is in the works.

sammael
10-24-2006, 08:46 AM
Strange because the character in my avatar uses a displacement map with aps and sas worked fine, absolutely no dramas at all. It is only now that I cave come into problems using grass on an aps landscape with 1mil+ polys. Its running out of ram more than anything else but there is some oddball **** going on as well.

tibes
10-24-2006, 08:51 AM
Can you tell me what kind of hair guides FF needs?

Sample guides from FF4 attached - HTH

Sensei
10-24-2006, 09:10 AM
Sample guides from FF4 attached - HTH

That's exactly the same what SasQuatch/SasLite uses..
And how do you try to not render such hair guides? Setting Transparency to 100%? Object properties Render tab Unseen by options? (but that would exclude the whole object and need skin/head in another layer)... Not using Classic camera?

Dodgy
10-24-2006, 09:12 AM
Usually using unseen by camera or transparency to 100%. Doesn't really matter...

Sensei
10-24-2006, 09:20 AM
I noticed in LW9 that setting surface transparency to 100% and using SasLite gives me black (?!) lines instead of completely transparent hair guides.. Haven't tried v8.x.. For testing TrueHair Styler I am using Perspective Camera, which doesn't render anything less than 3 vertices polygons..

UnCommonGrafx
10-24-2006, 10:19 AM
Make polys = 0 in size setting of object>edges (sorry) properties.

Sensei
10-24-2006, 03:20 PM
Make polys = 0 in size setting of object>edges (sorry) properties.

Nice, I didn't know about this trick :)
But it affects the whole layer, I presume..

Robert.. Can you check this scene on full version of SasQuatch? What to **** is going on?

It's all going crazy even when there is just a few hair guides (I even deleted everything what was generated in the middle leaving just 4 connected with skin polygon), and it looks like total number of points per hair guide is making it so bad looking, still searching why it's happening..

http://www2.trueart.pl/Products/Plug-Ins/TrueHair/Graphics/TrueHair_7.png

http://www2.trueart.pl/Tests/SasTest.rar

UnCommonGrafx
10-24-2006, 03:31 PM
I'm moving this week so am short on real internet time. ;)

turn down your clump size, lock width or lock thickness to straighten out that mess.

Downloading now...

Sensei
10-24-2006, 03:57 PM
Thanks Robert :)
The more hair guides the less clump size must be used..
In this screen-shot 15% is giving acceptable result:
http://www2.trueart.pl/Products/Plug-Ins/TrueHair/Graphics/TrueHair_8.png

But with this it was still toooo much, and had to change to 0.1%...
http://www2.trueart.pl/Products/Plug-Ins/TrueHair/Graphics/TrueHair_9.png

BTW, there was just 4 hair guides on both screen-shots that was interpolated by TrueHair Styler Freeze Hair and gave so much more, and then used by SasLite..