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View Full Version : Windows Vista: I gave it a shot.



Verlon
08-11-2006, 01:19 PM
Well, I downloaded the public beta of Vista and installed it. Overall, I think it might be ready in 2008.

It will be uninstalled shortly. If you are in any way considering giving this a shot, wait until there is some MAJOR update.

It ships with a lot of drivers, but it still acts flakey (can't run the CDROMs right now, for example, and they worked before the last restart).

Slower than .....well its pretty slow.

And the new security seems to be built on the concept of 'ask permission for everything.' It takes3-4 dilog boxes to delete a file, and heaven help you if you want to INSTALL something. You can disable some of that in a control panel, but then I wonder how safe it is compared to XP 64?

I thought it was funny that the phishing filter issued a warning on the microsoft website.

Sound appears to be optional in quickitime (as in sometimes it works, other not and I can't seem to find a reason. Ijust keep restarting until it decides to play).


Yeah....I know....its beta, but it is worse than Windows betas past.

I also know everything the Mac users are going to say, so save the electrons. I already fought the urge to by Microsoft back in the Amiga days and it didn't work out so well for me.

Bog
08-11-2006, 01:55 PM
Yeah....I know....its beta, but it is worse than Windows betas past.

I dunno, man. I was on the Win95 beta for my (very sinful) sins back when the Amy still had a pulse (got in a bit of Trouble for using DPaint IV for the icons on an MSN service I was working on. Hur hur hur).

I mean, 95 was harsh. 43 installed CD-ROM drives on a laptop, anyone? And then there was MSN itself.

Well! That's my therapy set back 18 months. Time to go curl up foetally in a corner and sing "He's Got The Whole World In His Hand" to myself 'til morning.

Sarford
08-11-2006, 04:50 PM
Well, with all the 'security' stuff microsoft is building in (for THEIR security, search for trusted computing on google), XP was the last thing of microsoft I ever bought.

I'll just buy a Xbox 360 or PSP3 for games (control pads, yeiks) and work happely on the mac :)

Lord Snarebotto
08-13-2006, 07:49 AM
If they keep up their crappy authorization BS, I might be moving to a MAC sometime in the future as well.

Matt
08-13-2006, 11:40 AM
I agree, it's bloated, has a dated looking interface and offers nothing really genuinely new. Yep Microsoft have missed the target AGAIN!

Let me know who you intend to un-install it, because mine won't let me!!!

Think I'm gonna have to re-format the second HD I put it on.

Bog
08-13-2006, 11:51 AM
offers nothing really genuinely new.

Gnf. I have to put you straight there, chap. The inherent ease of making 3D content is a Big Thing in Vista - it's just nobody's actually got content that they can show yet. (In both senses of the word "can").

The framework is there in the existing beta, but as there's no content it's kind of unexciting - like a shiny new XBox 360 would be if you didn't have anything but old X-Box games to play on it.

Verlon
08-13-2006, 01:32 PM
Well no one is going to make 3D content for an OS that can't move data fast enough :/ GRRRR.

To uninstall, it was difficult. Luckily, it was a new hard drive so formatting was an option. In fact, it was the only option. I had to do a low level format, highlevel format, and a FIXMBR to get the thing to work as a boot drive after uninstalling that.

And yeah, if this is the future of Windows, there is a Mac in my future as well.

lots
08-15-2006, 02:16 PM
I also know everything the Mac users are going to say, so save the electrons. I already fought the urge to by Microsoft back in the Amiga days and it didn't work out so well for me.
Since you didnt include Linux users :) you should check out some videos of XGL in action on youtube ;) thats what a true 3D accellerated GUI should be like.. Even Apple's GUI isnt quite as fun looking :P

But it definately makes me wonder what on earth MS is thinking, when a free solution can easily out class it before vista has even been released.

lilrayray77
08-15-2006, 02:23 PM
Microsoft focuses less on the package itself and more on the advertising and promotion, or at least thisis how I see it.

lots
08-15-2006, 02:27 PM
Gnf. I have to put you straight there, chap. The inherent ease of making 3D content is a Big Thing in Vista - it's just nobody's actually got content that they can show yet. (In both senses of the word "can").

The framework is there in the existing beta, but as there's no content it's kind of unexciting - like a shiny new XBox 360 would be if you didn't have anything but old X-Box games to play on it.
Actually I wouldnt say that. I would hesitate to consider 3D apps on Vista, since the whole graphics model seems to be DirectX based. No native OpenGL abilities at all. From what I know, vista handles OpenGL through translation calls in DirectX, which could cause problems imo... Which is a terrible thing for 3D apps since most every single one I know of heavily relies on OGL rather than Direct3D.

Then again this is all hear say, and should be taken with an absoluely huge grain of salt :)

shrox
08-15-2006, 02:46 PM
I just looked at some video of XGL (not sure if it was Vista) in action, I did not at all care for the way the window being dragged about flopped around. I need a GUI to be funtional, not entertaining! Being able to rotate the desktop as if it were one side of a cube was kind of cool, but not really an attractive feature to me. I shut off all the "special" effects in XP, just give an instantly appearing window, not a fade in or rollout.

Bog
08-15-2006, 03:53 PM
Lots,

I said "3D content", not "OpenGL" content - oranges are not the only fruit! ;) Windows inherently used a tweaked XML format (XAML) to handle 3D geometry which is then, yes, rasterised in Directx9 or 10 depending on the app. It's quite pretty, understands what (eg) bitmap driven specularity is about. Of course, it's a proprietary format, but that's MS for ya.

shrox: "GUI functional not entertaining" - guess you don't use a Mac, then! ;) (Sorry, couldn't resisit!)

Matt
08-15-2006, 04:46 PM
Bog: So, Vista will allow me to create 3D content easier than I can in XP now - how exactly? Don't quite understand what you mean, unless you mean the Windows "experience" will be full of 3D dialogs boxes and menus etc. in which case, erm, no thanks!

In terms of an OS, working with files and programs etc. nothing new from what I've seen, just same old Windows, with ANOTHER heavy interface slapped on top, oh, and a lot slower than XP.

Oh and Lots - Vista WILL support OGL natively apparently, there's a thread about it there.

Bog
08-15-2006, 05:05 PM
Oh god yeah, Matt - the default twinkly interface is a resource hog. Everything's gettin' switched off! ;) But yeah, there's a content-creation app called EID that's basically Flash 3D For Vista which lets you bung 3D models into everything from web applications to powerpoint presentations. Vista's natively both touchscreen-aware and 3D content ready, so there'll be a lot of interesting stuff happenning. There's going to be a lot of opportunities for people who know their way around a polygon, for that matter, so more dosh to the LW community if I have anything to do with it!

I'm kinda taking it's corner 'cause I've been helping to develop some fairly cool stuff for it - one part of which is a direct pipeline from LightWave into that 3D language. We've done some fairly credible stuff with it, so I know it's not just going to be Powerpoint and the like. However, the object converter is available free now, at www.shaxam.com. If you google for Expression Interactive Designer, you can go and stick the content-creation gubbins on any XP machine for no money and have a play with it.

Verlon
08-15-2006, 10:15 PM
There are things that look intersting, but I simply had zero luck with that beta. I am guessing the 3D content thing is similar to Anark, which would be way cool.

I REALLY hope they get it straightened out, but at least I know why its been delayed.

shrox
08-16-2006, 10:35 AM
shrox: "GUI functional not entertaining" - guess you don't use a Mac, then! ;) (Sorry, couldn't resisit!)

Actually, I use both. I just like the window, icon, menu or whatever to be there now rather than wait for it. I just work fast, and with that stuff on I sometimes click and move on before it has even opened.

Bog
08-16-2006, 10:38 AM
Actually, I use both. I just like the window, icon, menu or whatever to be there now rather than wait for it. I just work fast, and with that stuff on I sometimes click and move on before it has even opened.

You and me both, mate - the button needs to have drawn by the time the pointer's over the space where it should be.

Matt
08-16-2006, 12:13 PM
The think M$ have missed is that they are trying to do a whizz bang interface like OSX, but if you look at the apps Apple are creating they move away from that initial bubblegum appearance they did.

With the exception of Time Machine.

What they should have done is have a really simple, but attractive, speedy interface, and then sort out the workflow of Windows. Personally I think Windows tries to hard to allow you to change stuff everywhere in the interface, and you get confused as to where that option was, the other thing is the constant hand-holding it insists on doing.

I'm a big believer in the fact that you can make an application / OS APPEAR faster by having a really snappy, responsive interface, LW suffers from this too.

lots
08-17-2006, 09:39 PM
Lots,

I said "3D content", not "OpenGL" content - oranges are not the only fruit! ;) Windows inherently used a tweaked XML format (XAML) to handle 3D geometry which is then, yes, rasterised in Directx9 or 10 depending on the app. It's quite pretty, understands what (eg) bitmap driven specularity is about. Of course, it's a proprietary format, but that's MS for ya.

shrox: "GUI functional not entertaining" - guess you don't use a Mac, then! ;) (Sorry, couldn't resisit!)
Good point Bog :) I'd forgotten about all the fancy new (and easily codable) bits in vista. It should make for some interesting software.

Matt- Like I said, big grain of salt :) Its good to know vista wont drop OGL completly, that would be no fun at all..

shrox - I use linux almost exclusivly at work. I normally run a black box session. Which basically equates to a blank screen with a right mouse button "start menu" and thats it. Fairly minimalistic. If I need anything, I open up a command line, or a short cut on my right click menu. Simple as that. XGL just happens to be something for me to enjoy :)

As for the rotating cube thing, well if you've never used multiple workspaces before, I guess you dont really see the point. But since I use them all the time, its kinda cool to see this take on it, seeing as most of the time there is no visible queue given to the user that the workspace has changed, other than the windows disappearing. Especially if you tie your workspaces to your mouse's scroll wheel like I do :) XGL accellerates the desktop via 3D hardware, so its more than just pretty effects.

XGL is a linux thing, and as with all linux things, open source and bound to be modified (or loads of configuraiton options). So I'm sure everything is able to turn off. What I found impressive about XGL was the ability to open several movies, let them play, and fiddle with thier transparancies on the fly without any dropped frames. Granted Im not really sure what funcitonal purpose that could give most people :) But really out side of a window and a mouse pointer, I dont think there's much need for any fancy graphics. Its just interesting to see how linux is adapting to all these other 3D accelerated desktops (Vista, etc).

XGL's "fun factor" will wear off after some use, naturally.