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View Full Version : Should LW pre-orders come with "goodies"?



wacom
08-09-2006, 11:46 PM
I'm sick of getting stuff that I don't want, just because I pre-order. I pre-order, not to save money, but to help give LW development a shot in the arm and have a say about what the next version looks like.

Wouldn't the money spent on giving us "free" copies of DF+, Vue, UV edit Pro etc. be better spent on R&D and marketing?

duke
08-10-2006, 01:36 AM
The DFX bundle was extremely appealing at the time, and it doesn't have anything to do with hindering Lightwave development or whatever. When they had supply issues with Vue, you got your Lightwave first and Vue when it was available so it wasn't like that bundle was busting your balls either. Anyway, I didn't vote either, kinda weird way to put things.

hrgiger
08-10-2006, 02:07 AM
In the case of both Vue, DFX, LWCAD....

All of them you could consider commercials. All of them were given to us free, but then there were always more versions to buy. More modules with DFX, other modules of Vue and now LWCAD 2. I'm sure it benefitted the authors of those packages to be bundled with Lightwave. Oh, and let's not forget Saslite.

It seems to me that Newtek probably did not spend a lot of money on bundling these things with Lightwave. And if that's the case, I would have to vote for Yes, keep bundling them.

archiea
08-10-2006, 02:17 AM
I think the bundles served their purpose in maintaining interest in LW while the development was in hiatus. the trade off was turblulent v8x releases. In the future, though, I would prefer NT just giving us a better version of LW THAT WORKS WITH PREVIOUS PLUGINS like Fprime.

Bog
08-10-2006, 02:48 AM
In the future, though, I would prefer NT just giving us a better version of LW THAT WORKS WITH PREVIOUS PLUGINS like Fprime.

*beats archiea senseless with a flaming, fertiliser-fortified cluestick*

FPRIME WORKS AS WELL IN 9 AS IT DID IN 8!

GAH!

I need coffee.

colkai
08-10-2006, 02:52 AM
I wan't my LW9 to work with plugins for LW5.6 hehe. :p

Actually, a T-Shirt would be cool. :) Though for me, getting LWCAD1.5 and Vue5I was probably the most gob-smacking freebie ever. Don't play much with Vue, but LWCAD rocks my ickle world.



..But did I mention a T-Shirt would be cool? ;)

Bog
08-10-2006, 03:03 AM
Especially if they bring back the "P*ss Off, I'm Coding" shirts.

Sorry NT - I'm only ever going to shut up about those shirts when I have a new one in my sweaty mitt. They were brilliant. Stylish. Classy. Able to answer 95% of questions in the workplace just by turning one's back.

Lightwolf
08-10-2006, 03:07 AM
Especially if they bring back the "P*ss Off, I'm Coding" shirts.

Sorry NT - I'm only ever going to shut up about those shirts when I have a new one in my sweaty mitt. They were brilliant. Stylish. Classy. Able to answer 95% of questions in the workplace just by turning one's back.
Not only that, but I have one from the GDC, which had a larger print on the back :D
My favourite T to wear when visiting customers ;)

Edit: the only other T as classy as that must be Eyeons DF4 T-shirts with the "We suck less!" print.

Cheers,
Mike

digital verve
08-10-2006, 04:29 AM
The free Digital Fusion bundle helped me upgrade to Fusion 5 at a much reduced cost. Vue is useful. Now I would happily settle for just a cool shirt and amazing LW updates.

Wonderpup
08-10-2006, 08:29 AM
I can't see myself pre ordering again- I just don't like my credit card company that much.

Thor Simpson
08-10-2006, 08:40 AM
As was mentioned, these particular extras probably didn't come at a huge cost to NewTek- they were sales tools as much as anything else. And they have all been awesome additions to my library. I would not have purchased v9 to date if it wasn't for these promotions. A far greater "cost" to NewTek was the amazing new pricing. But again, that's a sales strategy... and one that allowed me to get back into Lightwave where I would not have at the old price point.

You could just as easily argue that NewTek could better use their income on development rather than slashing prices. But you can see how that doesn't quite make sense.

More importantly, these additions did not take time away from the developers. If you think there would be one less bug in the release version that there is now if they decided to leave out Vue, you're drawing the wrong conclusions.

The only "goodies" that would directly cut into NewTek's profits on the sales of preorders would be the T-shirts etc that people seem to rave about, yet were not a preemptive incentive to buy. But judging by a few people's reactions here... perhaps that is a legitimate sales strategy (for customer retention and free adveterising) as well. I know some people don't care about shirts, Vue, lwcad and any number of other things. You paid for 9, you want 9. I do see where you're coming from. But don't get stuck in the feeling that because these things are offered, you are somehow getting less bang for your buck. All of these things work together for the marketing and progression of the software that we all love.

Martin Adams
08-10-2006, 10:17 AM
We'll never know the actual sales figures. But maybe bundling the upgrades with other applications allows NewTek to sell more upgrades. Even though their profit per unit is less, the increased sales could in turn mean more revenue in total, meaning they have more money for research and development.

Then the third party developers (DFX+, Vue, LWCAD) can increase their user base and make more money. Everyone wins!

I personally have purchased the upgrades in advance simply because of the bundled packages. Otherwise I would wait every two releases or so, or until I absolutely need the new features.

I was actually considering purchasing Vue Infinite 5 before the upgrade offer. That would have cost me something around 500 I think. Then the LW9 upgrade and Vue bundle came along for 250 - I just couldn't resist. For me to agree that LW shouldn't bundle with third party software would mean I'm prepared to pay 750 instead of 250; which I'm not.

Who knows, maybe having the bundle is more profitable for them than not to simply by increasing sales. Sure, the additional software might not be used by everyone, but its not like they were actively paying extra for it.

I hope that NewTek keep the tradition of having bundles. Its increasing my product portfolio and in turn, my skillset.

warrenwc
08-10-2006, 11:14 AM
I'm still using the DFX+ version I got free.
I'd have upgraded if I had the cash to spare, but to have a full featured compositor as a free bonus was a huge benefit to me.
So what if the extras are ads for upgrades. I've gotten a lot of mileage from a version of Stitcher that was distributed as a teaser for an upgrade.
IMHO these sort of promotions can give "starving artists" less reason to join the pirate crowd.:thumbsup:

Cageman
08-10-2006, 11:53 PM
In the future, though, I would prefer NT just giving us a better version of LW THAT WORKS WITH PREVIOUS PLUGINS like Fprime.

See.. that is the biggest problem which you seem very ignorant of. If NT forwards LW into a new codebase, it will certanly break alot plugins. FPrime is a good example of that. NT needs to put the right hooks into the SDK and Worley needs to re-write FPrime to take advantage of the new features. If NT would try to keep compatibility all the plugins written for pre LW9, they will not go forward in enhancing LW:s core and foundation.

EDIT: Ohh.. and I voted for a T-shirt... ;)

archiea
08-11-2006, 12:41 AM
*beats archiea senseless with a flaming, fertiliser-fortified cluestick*

FPRIME WORKS AS WELL IN 9 AS IT DID IN 8!

GAH!

I need coffee.

yeah, thats the problem, it works like 8.5. hence this:
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54370


Put together a scene with nodal shaders and render them in Fprime.

archiea
08-11-2006, 12:47 AM
See.. that is the biggest problem which you seem very ignorant of.


Ignorant of how Newtek's SDK works and how it relates to Fprime? Customers tend to want to know when something will work, not why it doesn't. Every person who posted asking about Fprime after worley posted his intial statement were more conerned with the "when". The why does nothing for me as I am not a developer. I appreciate the elaborated explaination, but it doesn't help the "when" part. This has nothing to do with ignorance.

hrgiger
08-11-2006, 01:45 AM
yeah, thats the problem, it works like 8.5. hence this:
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54370


Put together a scene with nodal shaders and render them in Fprime.

Gee, there have been just a couple of professional prjoects that LIghtwave has managed to be used on, all without support for Nodal shading...

http://www.newtek.com/lightwave/projects.php

Perhaps we can go a few more short months without it for a little bit more while they hash it out?

inquisitive
08-11-2006, 02:19 AM
I'm sick of getting stuff that I don't want, just because I pre-order. I pre-order, not to save money, but to help give LW development a shot in the arm and have a say about what the next version looks like.

Wouldn't the money spent on giving us "free" copies of DF+, Vue, UV edit Pro etc. be better spent on R&D and marketing?

I vote to have this post of yours ignored by Newtek.

I appreciate the programs provided and frankly after 1yr of waiting, i expect no less.. in some places they do not bill you until a product is shipped. Here we all paid in advance because the product was shipping soon and soon turned into 1yr.

If you dont want the freebies, donate them to someone that can really appreciate them.

:thumbsup: :)

colkai
08-11-2006, 02:51 AM
I'll take any freebies Newtek throw my way.

Though I'm still miffed they didn't get Claudia Schiffer round to wipe my brow as I installed LW9.

I mean, come on, what's a guy gotta do, it's a simple little request after all. ;) :p

Cageman
08-11-2006, 01:35 PM
This has nothing to do with ignorance.

1) You wrote that you want LightWave to function with all plugins.
2) I said that it isn't possible to keep compatibility with all old plugins and at the same time forward LW into a new code-base.

Is it NT or the plugin-developer that should change the code to make things work?

Someone thought that he could use the Advanced camera to bake Sasquatch Fur to a surface. If Sasquatch were developed by NT, that would been a fair thing to expect. But since SAS is a plugin, and furthermore, it isn't developed to take advantage of the _NEW_ features in LW, we start to see what will happen with alot of plugins during 9.x cycle. Only those plugin-developers that are alive and kickin' will probably update and make their plugins to see and take advantage of the new features. The rest, well... bye, bye...

I rather see a solid, flexible and thought-out foundation in LightWave where things Work, things See eachoter and the "bolt on with duct-tape" feeling will become a vague memory of the past. Even if a few or more plugins will break during this changeover, we will still have a good and solid main-application that, in the long run, will be a much healthier platform for 3:rd party AND for the artists, because things just work.

Bog
08-11-2006, 02:19 PM
Don't we have enough threads about integration and layers and teirs and onions and parfait and things already? This would make it Thread #6 or something, not counting CG Talk.

I like NT's goodies. They've all been useful: Fusion DFX, Vue, LWCAD - they all gateway into nice cheap upgrades for stuff that's genuinely, honestly useful to freelance/small business use as well as Big Rig work. If they just gave us a copy of Half-Life 2 or Maya PLE or something utterly inappropriate, I'd grumble but as it is they're doin' fine by us.

SP00
08-11-2006, 06:59 PM
I love the freebies. LWCAD1.5 was great and so is Vue5. Althought Vue 5 would be better with xstream, but with DF+, you can composition the scenes together. Not really a problem. Vue 5 is great, everyone should really try to build a forest, render it out, render some character walking in LW, render it out and then composite it together. Very fast results at a high quality. Xstream cuts out a lot of the compositing, but you can't have everything.

Bog
08-11-2006, 07:02 PM
Before you criticise a man, render yourself walking a mile in his shoes ;)

Chuck
08-12-2006, 12:14 PM
I'd vote 2, but I don't like your wording, so I don't. LWCAD for me is more than just a toy, it's a modeler expansion that puts LightWave ahead of the competition in a lot of areas. It also made me put down the petty cash to get LWCAD2, which is so awesome that modeler won't ever be the same without it. The snapping, the realtime booleans, the profiler... oooh la la this suite of tools is beyond good.

See if the new wording is more suitable. :)

T-Light
08-12-2006, 12:52 PM
Cheers Chuck.
I now voted for two :)
Loads of uses for LWCad (also upgraded to V2) and DFX is rarely out of use.

hrgiger
08-12-2006, 12:53 PM
I don't know that I can even consider LWCAD a plug-in at this point. I am pretty much considering it the improvement to Lightwave modeler I've wanted to see for a long time. So even if Newtek had to pay a lot of money to put it in there with Lightwave 9, so be it.

If you don't use modeler at all in your work, then maybe I can understand the argument. But for everyone else, if you think that LWCAD wasnt' a necessary add-on or bonus, then you just haven't seen what it can do.

I just ordered my upgrade to version 2 as of yesterday because I was so blown away at the power of this plug-in. I would never describe anything I do with the word "giggle" but when I watch this plug-in do real time interactive booleans, interactive vector cloning, interactive addition of detail to boolean cuts, snapping tools that for the first time make me want to use snapping, easy easy easy profiling and engraving, etc....Plus the wall tool? Forget about it...this tool makes me giggle.

Do other packages (CAD packages excluded) have these powerful modleing tools?

Bog
08-12-2006, 01:21 PM
this tool makes me giggle.

Yes. And titter. And dry-wash my hands to a peal of diabolical laughter.

I love things that make me do that.

wacom
08-13-2006, 09:24 PM
See if the new wording is more suitable. :)

That's fair. Now do you have the guts to tell us how much NewTek spent on each bonus piece of software? That really would be the deciding factor to many, but I'm sure there is no way you'll give us that info.

I love my DFX+, but I just have this feeling a budding 3D programer some where went hungry or had to end up doing cobal database work because I got it at a reduced rate- instead of helping NewTek...

inquisitive
08-13-2006, 10:22 PM
btw Thank you for DFX+ and Vue5 and LWCAD and that other plugin vu.. something

stib
08-14-2006, 01:00 AM
I'm not sure which side of the argument I'd weigh in on, but either way I'd _really_ like a tshirt. C'mon NT, if you can't be bothered organising it yourself, just do the CafePress.com thing. Crikey, if the church of the flying spaghetti monster can have tshirts, why not Lightwave?

colkai
08-14-2006, 02:37 AM
Yes. And titter. And dry-wash my hands to a peal of diabolical laughter.
It's not a half-bad little trinket of a tool is it? ;) :p

SP00
08-14-2006, 05:46 AM
That's fair. Now do you have the guts to tell us how much NewTek spent on each bonus piece of software? That really would be the deciding factor to many, but I'm sure there is no way you'll give us that info.

I love my DFX+, but I just have this feeling a budding 3D programer some where went hungry or had to end up doing cobal database work because I got it at a reduced rate- instead of helping NewTek...

Don't feel bad about it, they are not in business to lose money. Promotions happens all the time in businesses and they are design to make money, even if we don't realize it.

wacom
08-14-2006, 10:23 PM
Don't feel bad about it, they are not in business to lose money. Promotions happens all the time in businesses and they are design to make money, even if we don't realize it.

I understand, but some software developers just show a new tool or feature and it gets the same response.

SP00
08-15-2006, 12:15 PM
That is true, but in NT case, they need to build up to that point where they can show some feature and people will ooh and ahh at it. They are not there yet, but I'm somehow confident that they will get there. This is mainly because they have a great product, but people just don't realize it.