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edmellnik
07-31-2006, 06:21 PM
I was wondering if there is any trick to getting
some broadcast quality scrolling out of the CG.
Overlay scroll over video just looks terrible.
Even on Black it is not smooth.

ANd their is also jumping lines on the bottom of
the letters when it scrolls up. This you dont notice as much on black but when keyed over video is very noticeable.

I have saved as RTV and turned overlay on. Maybe there is a way to save as a CG and play from that???
Would the purity of the white letters be any better?

Unless I am missing something I will probably have to
do it in Vegas or Final Cut.

Even Still CG pages look pretty poor on black until you enable the overlay. But this is another issue.

Pete Draves
07-31-2006, 07:38 PM
In the saved images files for the cg there should be a png image for the roll.
Set size to 100%, key frame move this with 2 keys.
Stretch to the required length.
Make sure overlay is on and set to high quality.
This is how I do rolls here.
Pete

Ivan
07-31-2006, 08:49 PM
Be sure you are turning on overlay, ISS and High Quality. It should look good.

Ivan

edmellnik
08-01-2006, 11:29 AM
What is ISS?

Ed

billmi
08-01-2006, 11:53 AM
Image Super Sampling. It is especially important for moving or rotating graphics (or video clips.) It is normally off by default to conserve CPU cycles, since most video clips don't need it. ISS considers multiple pixels of the source image and how they relate to the pixel being generated on-screen. In a very simple explanation, it can make the difference between turning off one pixel as the pixel above it turns on, to fading off one pixel as the pixel above it fades on, so that the perceived movement is smoother. It also helps fight moire style interference patterns between horizontal or vertical lines in the source image file, and the rows and clumns of pixels that make up the output image.

edmellnik
08-01-2006, 12:05 PM
Great so where do I find ISS to turn it on.
I have never seen it.
Thanks
ed

Jim_C
08-01-2006, 12:20 PM
Page 8.50.

edmellnik
08-01-2006, 02:12 PM
I guess your book is different than mine.
Nothing like that on my page 8.5

Rich Deustachio
08-01-2006, 02:24 PM
If you go into the contol tree for the CG at the top you will see "Layer Settings" click on the + sign to open it up and there you will see Quality. Set it to "High" Right under that you will see Image Super Sampling, turn it on by clicking next to enable.

Pete Draves
08-01-2006, 02:58 PM
ISS is located in Edit properties under layer settings and is a vt4 thing.
Pete

edmellnik
08-01-2006, 04:08 PM
Thanks Guys.
The quality is better but still nothing to write home about.
I see that the speed you run the scroll at seems to be
really important. At some speeds the letters seem to bounce around as they move up the screen.
Ed

Pete Draves
08-01-2006, 04:41 PM
are you running vt4 software
if you are I can e mail you a sample project to test
Pete

Ivan
08-01-2006, 04:42 PM
Remember that you are going against the scan lines. This will caus flicker if not timed right. Watch TV, you see it all the time. Good results for me come from saving an RTV of the Scroll at the default speed and speeding it up 200% in Edit Properties. If you do it in Control Tree the clip stays the same length. In Edit Properties it is reduced to half the length. Don't forget High Qulity and ISS. You can even stretch it a bit and tip it back to add some Star Wars style.

Ivan

edmellnik
08-01-2006, 04:51 PM
are you running vt4 software
if you are I can e mail you a sample project to test
Pete

Yes running VT 4.6
Would be happy to see a sample.
ed

ScorpioProd
08-01-2006, 07:49 PM
The only scroll speed I recommend is "2". Luckily, that's the speed I normally need. That speed is synced properly to fielded NTSC refresh. Anyway, I save that out as RTV and that's all I use.

For playing the scroll, there's really no need for High Quality or ISS, it won't make a difference in this case, since the clip is just an RTV+alpha, you are not manipulating it beyond that.

Thing is, I still have fond memories of how clean the scrolls in the Classic Toaster were, but they were more limited as well.

And in looking at other software-only CG programs, this is a universal problem. Such as with the Inscriber TitleMotion Pro that comes with EDIUS.

If there's something special that you need higher quality for, you might want to try creating it in Mirage. Mirage can blow away the quality VT-Edit can do in terms of smoothness of moves and interpolation of speed changes. Honestly, VT-Edit's slow-motion quality is totally below what I can accept. I always do any slow-motion in Mirage.

Of course, Mirage isn't real-time, but that's the price needed for that kind of quality.

Pete Draves
08-01-2006, 10:07 PM
will post late tomorrow a zipped 4.6 project using only vt to make a perfect credit roll using 1 png image.
Pete

Pete Draves
08-02-2006, 09:20 AM
Here is the project.
An imported text file to a roll and save as a project in cg designer.
Use the cg image generated. You can check the project to see how it was done.
I can supply a complete tutorial for the whole roll project but I have a client on the way here. Let me know.
Pete

edmellnik
08-02-2006, 11:29 AM
ANd Mirage has great looking Type over video?
Ed

ScorpioProd
08-02-2006, 12:51 PM
ANd Mirage has great looking Type over video?
Ed
Sure, put it over anything you want and use whatever fonts you want.

Of course, as always with an interlaced system, some fonts will look better than others. I mean if you have a font with single horizontal line serif parts, no system could make that look right in interlace.

But for something special, I would recommend creating it in Mirage. You wouldn't want to use it as your bread and butter CG, but for special stuff where you can afford the time for the quality, go for it.

Remember, for any kinds of moves or speed changes or anything, Mirage is always interpolating everything. The same can't be said for VT-Edit in speed changes, for instance. That's a night and day quality difference.

SBowie
08-03-2006, 10:04 AM
In case you're interested, I'm moving this week, and have a 'moving sale' on Mirage (to generate some extra $$.) E-mail me offlist if you want Mirage for a fraction of the regular price (too low to publicize).

*Sale ends when I move ... Saturday - or when I'm out of copies (just sold 4 to a single studio, almost out.)

ScorpioProd
08-04-2006, 10:15 AM
See, the other thing is, though speed 2 is the best quality, it's still not perfect what happens... It doesn't flicker at all, but it's like the antialiasing doesn't show up, either. So there's no flicker, but there are stationary jaggies.

edmellnik
08-04-2006, 05:30 PM
Pete thanks for the project. I loaded it and see how you did that. You should not have to do all that to
get a decent CG Roll.

I have ordered Mirage and hopefully can do it with that.

Ed

Pete Draves
08-04-2006, 05:49 PM
since the image used is generated by the cg
and put on time line there is no photoshop, mirage or anything else used.
VT can be a time saver. mirage and others all take more time and have to render. Corrections also take more time. and I hate to type.
I only do 80 words per minute. and can make baddd typos.
They don't really look that much better for all the time.
I do not type all that into the cg. I comes from the client already checked.
I also have mirage and aura. the only things that I use mirage for is to match image movement in rotoscope animation for making talking dogs and such. aura I occasionally use the stroke recorder.
The fastest scroll is th method I use with the cg.
I have also scanned programs and pasted the pages together in Photodhop to use the graphics from the program. Then move the image just like the one from the cg.
Remember the image is generated by the cg automatically when saving as a project.
Pete

edmellnik
08-14-2006, 05:16 PM
OK I have mirage. WHats the key to getting the
output to the switcher like you can with AUra.
The manual says you can but does not say how.
ed

Pete Draves
08-14-2006, 05:49 PM
Roll on columbia rill on!
I havew mirage aura title gecko title motion boris red with its' cg.

Now you know why I did what I did in the sample project.

simple integrated with what is allready there. No extra cost.
FAST, FAST to use. and quality is good.
Interesting, I havent got mirage to work right since vt4 came out.

I like good and fast, with quality.
Compare the steps and you will find out using the image generated by the cg is very useful.

edmellnik
08-14-2006, 07:26 PM
Thanks, I did use your technique.
When Mirage did not get here by TUesday I was forced to.
It worked fine.

ed

Pete Draves
08-14-2006, 08:21 PM
good
I wish you luck..
Pete