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DiedonD
07-29-2006, 07:34 AM
Hi, we come here, put our threads, both problem related and just to comune.
And when sometimes theres a hot topic, you have to await a response after post, which kinda slows down the issue.

Wouldnt it be great to have a LW Chatroom for issues which are not picture related? What do you think?

nerdyguy227
07-29-2006, 07:39 AM
All for it :agree:

iconoclasty
07-29-2006, 07:39 AM
Are chatrooms even out there any more? I don't think I've been in a chatroom since the 80s.

nerdyguy227
07-29-2006, 07:42 AM
Yea all over but I wouldnt want to ask much of newtek on the side of comunity features, I'd rather see money and time spent on software development

But, if they can do it without much trouble or cost then I think its a great idea.

Red_Oddity
07-29-2006, 07:55 AM
there's always the lw3d IRC chatroom on irc.enterthegame.com


or atleast, there was....

Kuzey
07-29-2006, 08:07 AM
I liked the bryce approach, they had their own little chat app before it went down hill and taken out.

But I could never type fast anyway and was always 5 to 10 lines behind everbody :D

Kuzey

hrgiger
07-29-2006, 08:11 AM
Are chatrooms even out there any more? I don't think I've been in a chatroom since the 80s.


There was chat in the 80's?

iconoclasty
07-29-2006, 10:09 AM
I guess maybe I was thinking early 90s. But yeah, how else were preteens supposed to hook up?

prospector
07-31-2006, 01:48 AM
There was chat in the 80's?


yep, BBSs

Write a sentence and 2 weeks later see the reply

We had to make sure we had the money for long distance charges...at 300 baud you could be uploading the word hello for a few min. :D

DiedonD
07-31-2006, 02:08 AM
Ok....I think more or less everyone is up for it. Assuming that Newtek officials always have a look at our threads, then could we have one of them tell us weather something like this will happen?

Reasons why they should are: Simply put any communication upgrade is good when your among coleagues, Probably less work for Tech and Customer support, Overall greater and warmer image of the community which is in Newtek, and it can just start as an alternative to threads.

Thats all I could think of right now, maybe some could add more reasons, appart that the majority of customers WANT it.

zapper1998
07-31-2006, 06:08 AM
I mentioned it a long time ago...or asked about it a long time ago...

Twisted_Pixel
07-31-2006, 06:16 AM
It general it would be nice to chat freely with people as you have suggested. Though if it happened, the little snippits of useful info that pop up in popular threads, would be missed by those not there at the time.

Just a thought to throw in to the mix.

lilrayray77
07-31-2006, 07:28 AM
They could probably just keep a record of the chat each hour/day, and make it available for people to view. That way nothing would be missed.

T-Light
07-31-2006, 07:51 AM
Unfortuantely, a chat room would draw focus away from the Forums and dedicated forum nutters like me would never be out of them. Even if you could search them it would still be difficult to bring an old topic back to peoples attention without everyone else doing a search to find out what someone's on about.

The other problem is moderation, most threads on the forum are as safe as houses, others practically end in bloodshed. Newtek just couldn't give the man hours to moderate several chatroom 24/7.

My 2c anyway.

DiedonD
07-31-2006, 08:31 AM
Because threads are easier to keep track of, and they are more more lasting in nature, Newtek should make a chatroom AS AN ALTERNATIVE.

Im not saying we should remove the whole thread system away! They could be either seperate issues (chatrooms and threads), visited paralely, or even the could corelate like for instance if youve put a picture of your latest work on the other forum, you need a thread, now you go to a chatroom and tell everybody that its there, for instance.
Or, make a huge text with an opinion, and just throw the threads title and whats it about in short on the chatroom, so as whoever is more interested to read about the whole thing can go and check the thread where that issue is mentioned more broadly.

Also another thing came to my mind why it could be beneficial to Newtek. They could put small ads on the side of the chatroom. Some ads either related to their own product, or something completely different, but hopefully only within the realm of 3D, or computer related at least.
Just dont put robots on the chatroom. I tell ya, If I had the skills of a hacker I would rage war against the DARN robots that are in Yahoo chatrooms, and would eliminate them all!!!

DiedonD
07-31-2006, 08:39 AM
Come to think of it, Brian Arndt is the Newtek Webmaster. Brian, if your reading this, do make a response please on the below issues:

1) Is it hard to make a chatroom?

2) What would it take to do it?

3) Whats your own opinion about Newtek chatrooms?

4) Whats been holding Newtek to do it till now, since it did got mentioned before and all?

lots
07-31-2006, 10:58 AM
Well I could answer 1 and 2.

1) its easy to setup a chatroom
2) It would take an opensource IRC server + a java based client

Having done both in the past.. pretty easy stuff..

lilrayray77
07-31-2006, 03:01 PM
if we cant get one here, someone could always put one up on another site and see how it works out. It doesnt have to be solely for help. I think it would be great to alk CG and leaarn about other people in the community. Ooh, and there could even be online seminars for the public to toon in to. I think it is a great idea.

Riplakish
07-31-2006, 06:45 PM
yep, BBSs

Write a sentence and 2 weeks later see the reply

We had to make sure we had the money for long distance charges...at 300 baud you could be uploading the word hello for a few min. :D

Now, now. During a good chunk of the 80s it was 2400 baud. How good the Online chats were depended on how big the system was you were dialing in to. Several systems I routinely used at the time had 40-50 lines on it. The end of the 80s brought 9600 baud, and the end of being able to read as fast as the data came in.

lede
07-31-2006, 07:09 PM
Well chat rooms would be interesting but the overhead is a little much for a company to try and undertake.

Most of these ideas have been tried and failed due to timezone problems and being able to attend on a regular basis. Just ask Tesselator about it. Timezones wreck havioc on sceduling anything on a regular basis and even the ones I have visited have had very few participants in them. Try the irc channel its been around for a few years and has some really good artists that stop in to chat every once in a great while.

So far the forums have had great success because you can post your queries and wait a few hours for some answers.

Just a few observations I've seen over the past few years.

-Lee

aurora
07-31-2006, 07:20 PM
Sadly Lede is correct on this. Tess has tried setting one up several times and while Tess never sleeps the rest of us do. At most we never had more then a hadnful of people on them even though they were publically announced. And they were always the same people.
However is someone wanted to start another up I'll be there! :)

DiedonD
08-01-2006, 02:36 AM
Well chat rooms would be interesting but the overhead is a little much for a company to try and undertake.

Most of these ideas have been tried and failed due to timezone problems and being able to attend on a regular basis. Just ask Tesselator about it. Timezones wreck havioc on sceduling anything on a regular basis and even the ones I have visited have had very few participants in them. Try the irc channel its been around for a few years and has some really good artists that stop in to chat every once in a great while.

So far the forums have had great success because you can post your queries and wait a few hours for some answers.

Just a few observations I've seen over the past few years.

-Lee

Does Tessalator works for Newtek? Has this idea for Newtek to make a chatroom that is easy to do as Lots put it has already been tried out by Newtek and failed?!

Its different for someone else to do it, and its different for Newtek to do it. Cause if its the latter, your not branching out off the comunity thats in Newtek to join in some chat that its elsewhere.

And as I mentioned before, threads remain, just a chatrom is added, like an alternative.

I wish some Newtek official would have a say on this, cause I still assume that they watch all threads including this one. The idea is still Ok for most people that have responded on this thread. I'll give it a bit more time, and if theres no response by then by them, Ill contact them instead, directly, and will post you the response later on.

wavk
08-01-2006, 03:45 AM
there's an irc channel up at :

irc.Freenode.com:6667
#LW3D


mlon

Kuzey
08-01-2006, 03:52 AM
It would be great for live tutorials, that was one of the biggest attractions to bryce talk and chats could be archived as well.


Kuzey

DiedonD
08-01-2006, 04:00 AM
Right. Ive send Customer Care an e-mail. Lets see where do we go from here...

zapper1998
08-01-2006, 05:13 AM
:question:

I was always curious if there would be a way to get a weekly Digest from the Newtek Discussion Forum, Is that Possible???

:question:

Michael

DiedonD
08-01-2006, 08:07 AM
:question:

I was always curious if there would be a way to get a weekly Digest from the Newtek Discussion Forum, Is that Possible???

:question:

Michael

What is all that Zapper, what does weekly Digest means. Is it like a magazine of some sort, that could be mailed or e-mailed to you?

Signal to Noise
08-01-2006, 08:27 AM
I use to frequent chat rooms alot in the past. But my lawyer and probation officer say I'm not allowed anymore. If you know what I mean. ;)

2BitSculptor
08-01-2006, 07:16 PM
I was pretty active on the IRC chats 7-8 yrs ago. now it seems people who were just learning LW then are teaching it now... or just tooo darn busy with their studio work. I see mostly bots in the rooms now, and the occassional "hello? anybody here?"

Chuck

Riplakish
08-01-2006, 09:26 PM
It would be great for live tutorials, that was one of the biggest attractions to bryce talk and chats could be archived as well.


Kuzey

Its almost tempting to look at it as a virtual users group, but then, you'd basically just end up with the same effects as most of the community web sites.

DiedonD
08-02-2006, 12:41 AM
I told the Newtek Customer care that this is a very hot topic. And that they can respond either to me in e-mail or directly in here. So far I dont have any e-mails....

DiedonD
08-03-2006, 01:28 AM
.... still waiting.....

Slowly the term negligence is building in me. Its not yet 100% though, but its building!....

jameswillmott
08-03-2006, 07:28 AM
Siggraph + shipping 9... I think NT might be a bit busy at the moment. Give them time.

lede
08-03-2006, 09:33 AM
Yeah their at the Sigraph show right now so it might be a week or two before they get back. I think Tess did do some work for them but I'm not sure in what capacity. Please don't get me wrong on this idea. I think it would be great to have a chat room since there very easy to setup. subdivisionmodeling.com has one on their forums that they integrated with the same bullitian board software as we're using here.

-Lee

DiedonD
08-04-2006, 01:05 AM
Two weeks it is then. Its a fine lovely Friday morning here in Prizren, on 04.08.2006 (Thats days months then year of course), still rendering and working, and awaiting the Newtek team for a response 14 days from now on 18.08.2006.

Just trying to pass the time till then, then... :hat:

DiedonD
08-05-2006, 01:14 AM
Nothing still... But its raining havily today. Quite a contrast huh. I have 2 more days to wait for a response from the bussy Newtek team. After that Im going to Venezzia for a 2 week holiday.

Any volenteers that could keep this thread up until a response, while Im not here?
I would hate to come back from a vacation and see that they STILL didnt came back to me. That then, and I think you would agree aswell, that would solid proof of neglect. :grumpy:

Silkrooster
08-05-2006, 02:18 AM
I don't know if you guys know it or not, but there is a chat room on my website. Just ignore the few errors, I need to update it. Apparently it is not quite compatible with php 5.
But it is a web based chat room, loads in its own window(assuming you access through my website), so you can keep it open while doing whatever.
Just keep in mind any and all data will be temporary as I don't know how the update works yet.
Anyways, it should give you guys something to play with until you get an answer.
Silk

DiedonD
08-07-2006, 02:45 AM
Any volenteers that could keep this thread up until a response, while Im not here?
I would hate to come back from a vacation and see that they STILL didnt came back to me. That then, and I think you would agree aswell, that would be solid proof of neglect. :grumpy:

Dont everyone stand up as voulenteers at once :D
Just kidding. Well, off I go to Venice. Hope you all dont get bored too much while Im not around :) .
All the best
Diedon

DiedonD
08-25-2006, 01:11 AM
Well, Im back, more energetic, colored, and still mentioning out laud that Newtek still didnt got back to me on this topic, and a.... Kinda wish they do already, since its not that hard and all.

Though while I was in that hotel, certain things came to my attention.
Now the days that everything had to be perfect in 3d are gone. We try to make it as imperfect and ugly as well as beutiful at the same time. But in an attempt to get closer and produce whats real, the reality illusions would work against us wouldnt it?

Look at what I mean. For instance. While I was standing on a pool, there was a recycling channel, you know the ones that clean the pool constantly. And because it was underneath the watter, the watter was breaking the light from the sun, making it seem unrealistically more forward and upper than it usually is. Its an illusion. Cause everyone knows its below there, and if you would go stand above it, and look from above, it would seem in its proper place, but once your back there the illusion makes its place move and kinda rotate unrealistically.

For that matter, having a very realistic Magician perform various illusions, could also slam away our attempts at making it real.

Another thing was that, there was an old building blocking the view of a huge discotheque behind it, that was throwing strong lasers away. Now, if we were to make that, as real as possibly could, the lasers that are indeed coming from the discotheque would be seen as our artificial way to try and make the old building seem more beutiful, thus becoming a dead give away that it was 3d realted programme. Giving away our hard attemot to mek the animation or image seem way too real.

So the point it. Since reality has its illusions, and we want to produce reality, and the illusion part of reality works against us, giving away the secret that was 3d realted production.... What do we do? You have to make it as it is, but the way it is, wouldnt seem real cause it has its illusions.

What do you think? If its too complicated let me know. Any comments?

nerdyguy227
08-25-2006, 08:22 AM
diedond, thats not too complicated, you just used many words to discribe it. I think we all come across that problem.


About the chatroom, I thiink it would be very convieniant for many people who need urgent information (particularly beginners who have taken on large projects...like I used to do) or have to know how to do something simple but do not want to wait an hour or two, or a day, for someone to respond to a message board thread. In this way it would act kinda like 24 hour tech support. Also, its a low cost way to expand the lightwave community.

Bog
08-25-2006, 09:25 AM
There's a couple of IRC channels, those seem to cover the realtime blither stuff quite well.

JML
08-25-2006, 11:11 AM
a chatroom would be a cool idea.

when I bought the website where I host my website, it came with tons of
features pre-scripted, forums,chatrooms,etc...

I would like to create a chatroom but then after, I guess I would be responsible for what people are saying on it and would have to sensure some words and other stuff like that.. (for pervs doesn't use it for example..)

I guess that's why 3d companies doesn't have chatroom because they would have to watch what's going on there,
and the newtek forums is probably already a lot of work to monitor..

lots
08-25-2006, 01:41 PM
It is easier to administer a forum than a chatroom. I also find forums easier to use in some ways.

For instance, during a heated discussion in a forum, there are very clear and defined posts, and it is very well organized. Posts do not seem to mix together, and you are able to tell who is saying what.

In a chatroom, if a heated discussion arises, it then becomes rather difficult to tell what is giong on, as the lines of text flash by in real time.

They are also harder to monitor, etc. Its much easier for NT to trash threads that are irrelivant or inappropriate.

Bog
08-25-2006, 03:00 PM
The advantage of IRC, however, is that instead of saying "My workstation blew up yesterday. I had to buy a new one. There goes my 10th anniversary money. Darn"

I could say...

"My ****ing god-****ned **** ****** ******* **?!*** BLEEEEP workstation threw a ****ing *****omised ****fit and the ****ing tracking peeled right off the **** ***** [email protected]@$!!! socket. Piece of ****!

Now I've had to spend the ******* savings for my TENTH ******** **** ***** **** *****ding anniversary on a new ****$&(&"^(&"

I could go on. You get the idea. Sometimes catharsis is good.

;)

lilrayray77
08-25-2006, 08:32 PM
How about, just to see if chat works, we define a sepcific place in IRC. for instance, we could all meet on something like: dalnet - #LW3D. Anyone else want to try this?

DiedonD
08-26-2006, 01:40 AM
So far I couldnt use any IRC channel. I just cant get in. And though the idea to try out a chatroom on another net just to see how it works, seems practical, the moment you say "Lets go to somewhere else, other than this one to chat" seems kinda... too much. Cause, it is way too more convinient to have it somewhere around here, someplace. "Newtek chattroom" that sounds better, dont you think.

Heated arguments can, and probably will come up. But they do so in threads too, as you know. And the moment they do come accross, they could be automatically blocked from being seen, like in BOG's example, and everything gets recorded doesnt it. You can go and see who said what, up there inthe list.

But look at what we could get from this. We could set up like an international pub, where all LW 3D artists meet for all sorts of issues, in various expertise.
I dont know about you but, that fact just strikes me deep.
Cause... this is where I belong, and probably you may feel the same too. And this chattroom, just takes you a step closer to home, with all the good fellow LW users that Ive come to communicate during almost a year now, going there and communing.

I guess during my abscence Ive missed this place too much, so you can just ignore the drama if you like, but you get the idea.

riki
08-26-2006, 02:59 AM
I hate chat and instant messaging. Just send me an email already :)

lilrayray77
08-26-2006, 07:13 AM
Why not make it a communtiy moderated chat, that way, a couple trusted members would be able to delete/edit the messeges.

DiedonD
08-28-2006, 01:01 AM
RIGHT!!! :mad: Im thed up with this deaf earing!! I cant believe there still isnt a reply on this heated issue, that the majority of replies where positivistic, and IM sure that even the ones that arent so sure about it, would enter the chattroom once its there.

Im gonna have to make an international call to Newtek US Customer Support, and demand a response from them there. I cant believe we've been neglected so far, and what its been for 1 month or more by now!

I'll keep you posted about what happened....!

Bog
08-28-2006, 04:51 AM
*blink*

Cool the jets, diedond, 48 replies over a 1 month period ain't exactly "heated". No need to get worked up.

JML
08-28-2006, 06:52 AM
in a way it could be cool, not just to chat , but let's say that there are
a general chat room but also some rooms reserved for training.

"Thursday 20, room 4 , we will talk about antialiasing levels,etc.."

after thinking about it, I guess a forum is better in a way because it keep the information, for those that were unable to meet at that time.
and even after a month, you can do a search and find the info.

Brian Arndt
08-28-2006, 03:59 PM
Is there a certain chatroom script you have seen or recommend?

Sorry for no replies, ive just been so busy lately, i havent had time to read all of the forum through :(

DiedonD
08-29-2006, 04:39 AM
Well, an ordinary Yahoo like chatroom will do just fine. I dont like the Hammers that enable members to kick other members out, cause that may bring wars. A simple ignore option, that everyone can see who gets ignored is bad enough for the like of us, if it may come to it.

If theres more you can do? Then all the emoticons in here, should be in the chatroom aswell. You know anything ordinary, and not all that flawless graphic heavy in memory stuff. Just so we can commune would be awsome.
If everything happens the way I think it will, then the dynamics between all of us would make an ordinary chatroom may appear wonderfully simple and beutiful.

Of course Im being modest. If you can reach for more, having some funky chatroom stile would be better, but I think that may take a longer time to build and enter aswell. Not to say least, that we can get pretty critical for the flavour of a decided design in the chatroom, so at least for now as simple as possible would be best, just to have a room for us to meet.

Now I dont know weather only members or potential members would be able to enter there, cause they are potentialy able to be members just like us. And we were all like them, only potentials, at one time.
But, there should be some sort of filtering, so as we dont let any cursing low life in, and ruin our fun in it. So maybe here the hammers could play in. Like members can have hammers, and can kick other nonmembers out like in MSN Chatrooms, except that this option is available only for nonmembers, meaning members can only hammer nonmembers, or potential members out, if they see that they are misbehaving in some way.
And a simple ignore is definitely not enough for troublemakers, cause they just stick out, and still ruin it. So unless theres no in between solution, the hammer should do.
As for ads, you can add anything interesting to us if you would like to capture our attention, if not just put whoever pays best an all, outside the room itself I mean, and I cant stress this enough that having Robots as they are called, or programs that "speak" nonsense and just adv anything from porn to cars is completely unaccepted in rooms for 3D artists such as us. So keep all ads outside.

And thats it, really. Maybe you can make a simple version for now, and later on, I dont know, maybe music, some sort of display image on the side that we can put our work to show, or our pictures, can be added later.

Again I keep stressing this out, the chatroom is only an alternate to threads, cause we can still have threads for issues that can wait, and should be thinked better before replied and all, like artwork for instance.
But there are other issues that just cant wait, weather its a simple "Hi I just got my very first 3D job :) " to various LW or related problems.

Basic or non basic, how long, and what will it take for this to happen do you think?

Thanks for finally giving us a reply, hope the next reply doesnt lasts like your first one

Brian Arndt
08-29-2006, 12:36 PM
While we appreciate that our users have such a desire to communicate that they want more than the forums and mailing lists currently available in the LightWave community, upon review it is not practical for NewTek to offer a chat room service in addition to these forums at this time. While there is obviously a certain amount of interest in this method of communication, maintaining the forums and the mailing lists we host already consumes a great deal of our resources, more than would allow us to maintain another separate venue.

We have no problem with the community starting one of their own though. If someone does start one, please let us know. We always like to know about new developments in the LightWave community.

lilrayray77
08-29-2006, 03:58 PM
From what I have seen, there are plenty of good developers in this community. Why not mke this a community driven chat?

DiedonD
08-30-2006, 01:37 AM
While we appreciate that our users have such a desire to communicate that they want more than the forums and mailing lists currently available in the LightWave community, upon review it is not practical for NewTek to offer a chat room service in addition to these forums at this time. While there is obviously a certain amount of interest in this method of communication, maintaining the forums and the mailing lists we host already consumes a great deal of our resources, more than would allow us to maintain another separate venue.

We have no problem with the community starting one of their own though. If someone does start one, please let us know. We always like to know about new developments in the LightWave community.

Thats strange! Yesterday you were asking "What kind of a chatroom do you want?" And now you dont have resources to maintain it! Why ask then?!

Just how could some programer just enter a NewTek site and establish a chatroom here Im curious? How would you two communicate? He cant just walk in here and do it can he?
I have a programmer, I'll talk talk to him about this. That is of course unless someone from us wants to go ahead and do it.

Do we have a volunteer :)

Chuck
08-30-2006, 08:55 AM
Thats strange! Yesterday you were asking "What kind of a chatroom do you want?" And now you dont have resources to maintain it! Why ask then?!

The reason is very obvious - "upon review" means that Brian brought the matter to the attention of the appropriate managers, it was reviewed, and the conclusion was as stated - NewTek does not have the resources at this time to host an additional venue.


Just how could some programer just enter a NewTek site and establish a chatroom here Im curious? How would you two communicate? He cant just walk in here and do it can he?
I have a programmer, I'll talk talk to him about this. That is of course unless someone from us wants to go ahead and do it.

Do we have a volunteer :)

Brian's message says very clearly that NewTek will not be able to host a chatroom among our online resources, and this would include doing so with any outside assistance. As a policy we only use staff to maintain and administer our online venues.

As Brian mentioned, if users wish to create a chatroom at a site they host on other online resources, please let us know, and we will participate to whatever extent we are able.

DiedonD
08-30-2006, 10:14 AM
You know I couldve said alot here right now about this so called "No money for an easy chatroom" technique that you just so politely stated.

Which , for me, is just another way, a more polite way of saying "Take your bloody chatroom, and get the heck outside this forum, and do whatever the heck you want with it there!". Cause the first polite one, for someone like Newtek, is just not belieavable.

And I can go on and on about this. But I kinda feel like Im the only one left that is fighting for this, probably the one that most needs it, so.... just an ordinary frustration response, for your decision, like:

D-*-M-N Y-O-U, you m[BEEEP]ers, and take your decision and f[BEEEEP]g go to [BEEEP] where it belongs!!!!!!

And, off I go. Wont be hearing replies from me on this topic anymore, unless provocked or asked from other members in the forum.

aurora
08-30-2006, 10:28 AM
Dude, you are in serious need of some Valium, Lithium or something. Instead of raging against the machine why don't you take the initiative and start one on your own? It can be done and has been done. One of two things will happen!
1) Hopefully you would succeed and there will be alot of happy LWer's including me.
2) Sadly, you'd find why previous attempts made an early exit and you'd understand NT's position better.

It's not that NT said no to the concept itself, just that its not in the best interest of NT to use what little resources they have to devote people to a huge affair such as a chat-room setting. Face it if they had more people they would be commited to the development team where both NT and us want them. Or they would be commited to other avenues of advertizing which NT could also use. What Chuck said is that if you build it they will come. And true to their word they will. They always have in the past. I see them all the time on other forums, and we'd see them on a chat-room too.

Chuck
08-30-2006, 10:32 AM
We had intended to leave the thread open for folks to discuss the details of setting up an independent chatroom if they still felt strongly that they wanted to create such a resource, but given that the tenor of the response has been to turn to flaming rather than understanding that we would not have reached such a decision for capricious reasons, the thread has run it's course and will be closed.