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View Full Version : WorkFlow Killers; gimme yer WorkFlow Killers!



Exception
07-21-2006, 04:15 AM
In the hopes of getting all this sorted, and changed for 9.X... puhlease...
My top ones:


- Surface editor not remembering which surface was edited last

- F12 does not always bring modeler/layout in focus

- No 'load image' in Lightprobe

- No proper undo in Layout

Dodgy
07-21-2006, 04:25 AM
UV's jumping when I perform most actions, like knife, bevel, disappearing altogether with rounder, the whole UV situation needs looking at!

Wonderpup
07-21-2006, 04:49 AM
The fact that layout can't detect when I add a layer to a model and save it in modeler, without making me reload the scene.

Exception
07-21-2006, 05:37 AM
The fact that layout can't detect when I add a layer to a model and save it in modeler, without making me reload the scene.

Is yer hub working, because it should do this... it does with me...

Anti-Distinctly
07-21-2006, 05:40 AM
The fact that layout can't detect when I add a layer to a model and save it in modeler, without making me reload the scene.

Even if I reload the scene it is still missing the additional layer. I either have to add another instance of the object and then remove one version of it, or go to the 'add layer from object' dialog and get it in that way.

As crap as this sounds, at the moment my biggest workflow killer is waiting for a GI render to finish.

Edit: yes, the hub is working.

Bliz
07-21-2006, 07:10 AM
In modeler, accidently hitting the tab key on a huge polygonal selection locks modeler up until it's finished changing SubDiv status.

Ideally you should be able to hit the 'esc' key to stop it.

I know it happens rarely but when it does happen.....

evenflcw
07-21-2006, 07:41 AM
Great topic!!!

The biggest one of all is imho
-Not being able to select items of different types in Layout.
If we could do this we could transform and alter any common setting for many different items simultaniously. We could finally make good use of scripts that rely upon selection order (like mayas parent and group commands) that further speed up workflow etc... Imho the selection modes should act as filters instead of exclusive toggles.

-Not having multitemrenaming capabilities via the property tab in Layout. Have a look at the old spreadsheet - That's what we want and need!!! The fact that there is no native solution for multirenaming in a software that has to organize hundreds sometimes thousands of items is imho quite silly.

-Not being able to alter selection in Modeler when a tool is active.

I'll come up with more later for sure.

stevecullum
07-21-2006, 07:55 AM
I find it really annoying that when I hit 'P' I get my properties open, I hit 'M' properties close and motions appear, hit 'P' motions close, properties appear... arrghh!

Why can't I have them both open?

MooseDog
07-21-2006, 08:07 AM
I find it really annoying that when I hit 'P' I get my properties open, I hit 'M' properties close and motions appear, hit 'P' motions close, properties appear... arrghh!

Why can't I have them both open?

:agree:

stevecullum
07-21-2006, 08:22 AM
Another one just popped up! I got 1001 objects that need the same APS gradient appying to them. If I could multi-select and then add once and have the gradient applied to all, great, 10 mins work. But now I'm faced with several hours work unless I find another way... :rolleyes:

Matt
07-21-2006, 08:29 AM
In Modeler the X,Y,Z plane letters are always visible which makes editing easy, in Layout they are not. When you have the camera zoomed in and rotated in serveral planes, but you want to move something on the X axis, it would be great if:

A) the grid had the plane letters on the edge of the screen (like Modeler)

B) The X,Y,Z colouring on the coordingate gadgets were visible when they are ACTIVE, not when they are not!

Matt
07-21-2006, 08:32 AM
BTW: This is a great thread to crush all those little niggles that constantly get ignored.

I can guarantee that LW will be a nicer place to work if ALL of these bugettes were fixed.

Remember, it's the small, attention to detail that counts!

stevecullum
07-21-2006, 09:33 AM
:agree:

As long as it doesn't turn into a 'This is why Lightwave sucks' thread. As long as its constructive and genuine workflow problems, I think Newtek will take notice.

Wonderpup
07-21-2006, 09:40 AM
Is yer hub working, because it should do this... it does with me...

Hi Exception,

The Hub seems ok- I can get other changes to show up ok- but not adding a layer.

Load object layer does work, but then you run into the 'pick a layer number' scenario because the load object layer plugin doesn't work with layer names only numbers, so I have to go back to modeler, check which number my new layer is on and then load it manualy- all a bit of a farce really.

SCS5
07-21-2006, 10:34 AM
The fact that layout can't detect when I add a layer to a model and save it in modeler, without making me reload the scene.

This is a BIG ONE! It drives me crazy. I've posted this ages ago, but, unfortunately It's never been fixed:thumbsdow

Lightwolf
07-21-2006, 10:38 AM
Hm, a small one... the new scene editor can only be resized on the lower right corner... drives me nuts and is a workflow killer... ;)

Cheers,
Mike

Cageman
07-21-2006, 10:44 AM
A global surface option. What I mean is, if this option is turned on, all surface-settings are stored with the scene-file instead of objectfile. Whatever the objects surfaces are, this option overrides it.

Would save A TON of work for setting up multipass-rendering or different surface-settings for the same object. No more need to create 10 different copys of the same object.

GregMalick
07-21-2006, 11:44 AM
A teeny tiny one first:

Having to to be in Translate or Rotate mode to position objects. Please change the viewport widget to allow both. Yes I know the middle scroll wheel changes the mode - but this should be easy to implement and be greatly appreciated.

Now some biggie wf-killers:
1. The inability to select polys in Layout and make or re-assign surfaces.
2. The inability to select points in Layout and make Point-Sets (for softFX).
3. The inability to create & adjust weight maps in Layout.

WilliamVaughan
07-21-2006, 11:48 AM
when saving a test render it should auto put teh extension on the images. I get burned by that one from time to time.

Same With MDD, BDD, etc.

eben
07-21-2006, 11:52 AM
one hotkey to open/close scene editor ( ie like graph editor etc.)

hrgiger
07-21-2006, 01:14 PM
Sometimes while animating and if I'm entering text into a dialog somewhere within the interface, my cursor always ends up in the X,Y,Z text fields and I end up accidentally editing one or more of my axis positions. It's really annoying. I don't even want the cursor to jump to the next text field after I press enter in the previous one.

Phil
07-21-2006, 03:33 PM
1) Click to select misfires constantly over here - it only seems to work well in bounding box, and even then is prone to stubbornly refusing to change the selection at all. 8.x did this a lot better.

2) Miss a submenu with the mouse and the whole menu structure closes down. Really, really irritating.

3) No tear off menus

4) Alphabetical ordering in menus is largely broken

5) No scroll bar on scrolling menus.

6) Relativity 2 is incomplete

7) No ability to display numeric data over links in Nodal (e.g. R: 255 G: 0 B: 128 for colour links)

8) No ease way to scrub the timeline without either putting substantial mileage on the mouse wheel (plus cramp in fingers) or moving the mouse and centre of interest down to the timeline to drag the handle.

9) No render pass support without extensive and irritating effort

10) No automated sequence baking of texures/radiosity/etc. Change anything and you cannot bake and have to endure lengthy renders. It should not be impossible for LW to bake out image sequences when lighting is changing in a scene, or objects move, or textures change.

11) No onion skinning.

12) No ability to select more than two lights for HyperVoxels (still)

13) No sane implementation of distributed rendering - screamernet is a bear to set up and this really should be addressed before everyone goes bald with frustration.

14) SuperGlow 2 got broken, remains broken and LW's glow support is pathetically inadequate (no refraction/reflection support - and the system doesn't seem to have changed since it was first implemented in 4.0 or earlier). Combined with zero render pass support, this is more than a little irritating.

Matt
07-21-2006, 09:45 PM
Let's keep it to things that need fixing and not feature requests!

KSTAR
07-21-2006, 10:13 PM
The infamous hitting the tab key and going into sub patch mode being removed from the undo stack. It was working feature demoed at Siggraph for LW 8 and never showed up in the release?

That would enhance workflow. It drives me nutz :screwy:

Hey didn't you do the demo and a video of the feature Proton :question:

Ratboy
07-21-2006, 10:21 PM
Loading a multi-layer object with its own parent-child heirarchy into layout autoselects the last object layer loaded. I'd vastly prefer that it select the top of the object's heirarchy, or failing that, the first layer in the object.

RedBull
07-22-2006, 12:25 AM
- Surface editor not remembering which surface was edited last
- No 'load image' in Lightprobe


my cursor always ends up in the X,Y,Z text fields and I end up accidentally editing one or more of my axis positions. It's really annoying.

Definately agree on all of those ones! I have some of them for many years.., And the surface editor one is a real pain.

Also i wish those XYZ fields still had scrollbar widgets, to move them
with the mouse instead of using the numeric keyboard only.

Not being able to hit F9 from any panel to invoke a render, I must first let the main Layout window have focus before hitting F9.

Image/ImageFP always asking to press escape or continue after a test render.

Multiple Selection/Editing of all LW objects/camera/lights/surfaces and attributes. As it costs way to much time to do this currently singuarley.

Viper needs to have an auto update, or be able to at least hotkey Viper Render to a shortcut key. This would reduce the endless mouse movement and keyboard clicks it takes currently when using Viper.

Replace Object only replaces the object Layers.... So if i replace a 2 layered object with a new object with 100 layers, only 2 layers are replaced. leaving me 98 bottles of beer short.....

Clip Maps are still object based and not surface based.

Modeler doesn't keep "stick" planar maps to objects when moving or sizing, like Layout (or other applications can)

And plenty more little workflow enhancers that don't come to mind right now. :)
These all cost me time quite often....

faulknermano
07-22-2006, 06:54 AM
1. "accidently" selecting many objects in layout (e.g. 1000+ objects) - takes forever to refresh and there's no way of getting out of it.

2. no way to resize classic scene editor left side panel.
2a. no way to resize new scene editor other than lower right hand side.

3. cant select different item types together, like cameras and meshes at the same time.

4. no viewport-relative translation in layout, unlike in modeler where you can move or rotate and object based on the angle of the view you have on your object.

5. inaccesible lw plugin parameters.

6. inaccessible render options commands.

7. everything is in dropdown menus instead of listboxes. makes it harder to select stuff within long lists. always needs to scroll down with mouse just to find anything.

8. no way to easily edit scene editor sets or grapheditor sets (e.g. remove, add items).



Image/ImageFP always asking to press escape or continue after a test render.

ooo, you should try the new QV4 by Ernie Wright... exits the render status panels automatically. :)

duke
07-22-2006, 07:14 AM
-I never use edge bevel or rounder because they can really stagger the vertexes, instead i save out the layer as a tmp lwo and do it in i modo.

-The surface editor reverting to the first surface rather than last-selected like already mentioned.

Cageman
07-22-2006, 07:31 AM
Copying one surface to all other surfaces copies all attributes, except the shader-tab...

evenflcw
07-22-2006, 08:59 AM
When you drag the timeslider with the mouse, the cursor doesn't follow along with the slider. It stays at the spot where you first clicked the time slider. So if you want to drag the time slider a second time immediatly you'll first have to move the cursor ontop of the slider again.

The same thing is true when you manipulate items in the viewport or even move geometry in Modeler. Imho the cursor should follow along (in the 2d viewplane) with the object/handle so it's pointing at the same spot when you release the mouse button.

evenflcw
07-22-2006, 09:02 AM
There is no longer a button to open the preset shelf from the Surface Editor panel. You have to remember the hotkey or open it from the standard menus. Imho any panel that cover an area that utilize the presets should have a button for the Preset Shelf. How else are (new) users suppose to know they have presets available for that area?

Cageman
07-22-2006, 03:40 PM
Copying one surface to all other surfaces copies all attributes, except the shader-tab...

Ehh... just tried it again and it works... straaaange...

evenflcw
07-22-2006, 06:28 PM
That you have to activate a tool, or rather leave the tool you're currently working with, just to drag a slider is a definate workflow killer. Sliders and other such widgets should be clickable nomatter what tool is active. In other words they shouldn't be implemented as a "Tool" at all! (Imho we need a new plugin class for viewport widgets!) I really can't understand why people bother with them. Nulls are imho still the better option.

RedBull
07-23-2006, 01:06 AM
ooo, you should try the new QV4 by Ernie Wright... exits the render status panels automatically. :)

Thanks, Yeah QV4 replaced and solved this problem for myself, however i still sometimes go back to Image/FP because i like how Image/FP allows me to compare multiple frames renders to each other.

These sorts of things sound trivial but every day for 10 years, having to press the ESC key after every single test render can earn people a highly sort after signed and framed insanity plaque :)

faulknermano
07-23-2006, 03:24 AM
8) No ease way to scrub the timeline without either putting substantial mileage on the mouse wheel (plus cramp in fingers) or moving the mouse and centre of interest down to the timeline to drag the handle.



yeah, i'll vote for this one myself. a timeline dragger, or some sort of mechanism that transfers mouse movement immediately to timeline scrubber (like in *cough*Maya*cough*). :D

evenflcw
07-23-2006, 05:34 AM
That Symmetry mode in Modeler only works properly on one side of the X axis.


That some commands in Layout don't work on with multiple items selected. For example Item Active On/Off, Item Visibility, Item Color, Item Lock... You're pretty much forced to work with the Scene Editor if you want to set any of those attributes. If these commands DID work on multiple items they would be workflow enhancers rather than killers.


That you can't assign any item as an IK goal, but is restricted to objects/nulls. So if you want to use a bone, camera or light as a goal you have to add an extra null and use expressions or a motion modifier to make it follow what you really want to use as goal and then assign that null as the goal.

evenflcw
07-23-2006, 08:41 AM
If you have a bone selected and would like to select more bones you hold down Shift and LMB-click. However for the most part bones are inside a mesh and LW is very likely to select the mesh instead of additional bones. Quite annoying! NT should make it so only items belonging to the active selection mode can be selected while Shift is pressed. For some reason bounding box selection doesn't seem to have this problem.

Matt
07-23-2006, 09:50 AM
8) No ease way to scrub the timeline without either putting substantial mileage on the mouse wheel (plus cramp in fingers) or moving the mouse and centre of interest down to the timeline to drag the handle.

I've found this is the case with all of the slider gadgets, when adjusting values you have to move the mouse a lot before anything happens, then suddenly you're at 100%!

*Pete*
07-23-2006, 12:35 PM
workflow killer??



my wife.

faulknermano
07-23-2006, 08:50 PM
If you have a bone selected and would like to select more bones you hold down Shift and LMB-click. However for the most part bones are inside a mesh and LW is very likely to select the mesh instead of additional bones. Quite annoying! NT should make it so only items belonging to the active selection mode can be selected while Shift is pressed. For some reason bounding box selection doesn't seem to have this problem.

oh this is a good one: marqee selection is not very good. items placed close to each other pose a problem; you dont always select what you want. it would be more intuitive if selecting a "component" (dragging a box around a vertex of a mesh) will select the object, but i think Layout uses the pivot point for reference - dont really know.

at any rate, i end up selecting items in the scene editor because marquee selection isnt predictable.

DragonFist
07-24-2006, 12:19 AM
My personal "favorite" workflow killer is the inconsistent handling of multiple selected items. You can select multiple surfaces and apply the same settings and they all get those settings. Try the same thing for rest positions on bones and it works, but not for rest rotation. Certain light settings will apply to multple lights at a time but you can't set the subpatch level to multple objects or set the same displacement to multple objects. So if you have 100 objects that you want all to have the same gradient for subpatch level, you have to go through each one individually and set it. Fingers ache just thinking about it.

There is no way of knowing whether something can be handled this way or not so you have to try and see. And I personally do not always remember, can I do this or do I have to handle each one. It is my biggest pet peeve with Lightwave.

Exception
07-24-2006, 01:41 AM
Clip Maps are still object based and not surface based.



MMMMWHOEHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAA!
That's the devil's work, that is. Yes indeed.


There is no longer a button to open the preset shelf from the Surface Editor panel. You have to remember the hotkey or open it from the standard menus. Imho any panel that cover an area that utilize the presets should have a button for the Preset Shelf. How else are (new) users suppose to know they have presets available for that area?

Well it took me 3 years working in LW to realise it was there...
I suppose I wholeheartedly agree with this one!
(I'm not much for manuals)

mkiii
07-24-2006, 05:53 AM
Still on the Edge Bevel tool...

The fact that unlike most other modeler tools, it doesn't remember it's last entered setting, but uses some seemingly random number every time, forcing you to enter a number in the numeric panel each time, or just eyeball it each time. If I wanted to make messy geometry, I would be using 3dsMax.

How long must we suffer this?

Does anyone have any idea how it guesses what distance to bevel to BTW? I can't figure it out. Sometimes when bevelling a < 1m box, the bevel might be 50cm, and sometimes it might be 5mm.

stib
07-25-2006, 09:24 AM
The biggest thing I see newbies struggle with (I teach lightwave at university some times) is that focus in Lightwave doesn't behave like it does in a normal application. I'm talking focus in the computer interface sense: what control is active and accepting mouse and keyboard events.

Most computer users are used to being able to enter some nuumbers in a numeric field, click somewhere else and have the focus shift with the mouse, leaving the numbers that they just entered stay where they should be. In lightwave and modeler you have to enter the number, press return or enter, make sure that when you pressed enter it didn't move the keyboard focus on to the next field, make sure that you didn't press return when the numeric field wasn't active, because that might bring up the new keyframe dialog, and then and only then you can click somewhere else or use the keyboard.

Time and again I see newbs type in a number, click somewhere else and wonder why it didn't do anything - worse still the number might still be displayed as entered, it just hasn't had the magic enter key pressed to make it stick. Either that, or they enter a number, click somewhere else, and press a keyboard shrtcut, which then gets entered in the number field. Then they sit there wondering why changing the value hasn't had any effect. If you're learning this is incredibly disruptive.

Why can't Lightwave behave like a normal app? Controls have focus until you click somewhere else, numbers that you enter stay entered, and don't sneakily revert because you forgot to hit enter.

stib
07-25-2006, 09:45 AM
Oh yeah: There is a warning when you want to save something, but no warning when you go to open a new scene without saving, or when you revert the scene. What's with that? Even the warning that you get when you quit appears whether or not there are unsaved items, meaning you can never really be sure.. did I or didn't I.. As far as cr4p UI design goes, that one's a doozy.

Falloff for modeller tools should be accessible via right click. So you right click to choose your falloff type, then say shift right drag to set the range. Annoying as h3ll to have to go over to the numeric panel set the falloff, then drag to set the range.

Oh and add a me too for mutually exclusive item properties, render options, and motion options panels. What makes NT think that we don't need more than one of these open at a time?

Matt
07-25-2006, 12:53 PM
Not being able to save gradients as presets for calling up at a later time, see this thread ...

http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54526

RedBull
07-25-2006, 02:34 PM
Also on the presets issues.....
The lack of, Clip Map, Displacement, or Lighting Presets......

I was hoping that Displacements would be moved to the new Nodal Editor,
along with Clip Maps.... This way i could of actually saved Clip Maps as surface presets, as well as Displacement maps as surface presets too.

At the moment, i can't save any displacements as presets, which is as good as useless... Nodal was the perfect chance to change this, but didn't..

I actually have to switch back to the surface editor, load a surface preset,
copy ,close it, open displacement editor paste to the displacement/clipmap editor. (yes i know you can save .nodes) but i'm sure from a technical POV, it's very easy to add preset shelf to Displacements and Clips....
Lights would be good too, i believe LW9 now has camera presets, which is good.

Sarford
07-26-2006, 01:45 PM
The fact that when clicked in a panel, alway the top most entry box is set active.
For instance, in modeler I wanna adjust the inset distance of the rounder tool and the numeric panel is open but out of focus. I click in the inset entry box and type a new value, but the value isn't entered in the offset box but in the 'rounding polygons' box. It does this with all the panels in modeler

Matt
07-26-2006, 02:13 PM
Another one ...

The bug in v9 that breaks F12 Hub communication with Modeler, this needs to be fixed pronto!

mkiii
07-26-2006, 04:36 PM
As does modeler in general.

Tima
07-26-2006, 05:29 PM
there are no edge support in uv view ?

i have find a good post to contribute of enhancing the workflow :
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48807

RedBull
08-05-2006, 03:54 PM
ClothFX, requires me to save a file everytime i make a render.. WTF?
This is just useless, i don't recall Motion Designer needing this..
It's really just stupid and should be fixed. FPrime for example can preview and update everyframe in realtime, and doesn't requiire me to save the calculation first, but LW itself can't?

pureandapplied
08-06-2006, 05:04 AM
Netork render. Add scene to list - why can't you select more than one scene at a time? The whole point of the list is that you want to be able to add more than one scene to it, otherwise it wouldn't be a list. Sheer stupidity. And of course if you've added item #20 to the list and then realise it shouldn't be there, you've got to delete items 1-19 as well. Why can't you select individual items and delete / edit in & out frames, re-order, set output path, etc from the network render panel?

toonafish
08-06-2006, 10:57 AM
-Tab works as Enter in MorphMixer.
Every now and then I forget and end up changing my viewport because I hit a number without a slider beeing active in MorphMixer.
So the only way to go to the next input field is though the mouse which is a major workflow killer.

-Still not possible to enter a value in multiple fields at the same time in the position, rotation or scale. Same in surface editor texture panels, I always have to do stuff 3x when scaling a texture or procedural.

-already mentioned several times, but just to add more weight to it: making changes in properties and motion panel should always affect all selected items. Also stuff like adding and deleting displacement plugins should work like that.

-not possible to get currently selected items properly selected in the (new)scene editor. If you want to make some changes, you have to re-select everything.

-Layout should name bones and objects in such a way that you don't run into problems when using expressions. So bones should by default be named bone_001, bone_002 and not bone(1), bone(2). The same goes for Nulls. And it would be nice if it were possible to rename objects internaly. So when you need to add expressions, you don't have to parent them to Nulls, or save each object under a new name.

-Master Plugins panel should at least be resizeable. When you have several character rigs in the scene with a lot of proxy objects it's a mayor drag to dis- and enable all the plugins. Would be even better if we could dis- and enable all selected plugins with the click of a button.

-F11 renders current frame with only the selected objects, it would be sweet to have the same feature but then for all frames. Big help for compositing. But that's more like a feature request, sorry.

-When locking a channel in parent coordsys, it should also be locked in world and local.

-all weightmaps in the scene showing up in the surface editor and bone panel all the time. I have to remember what weightmap belongs to what object, check it in modeler or always give them a proper extension, which is something I sometimes forget.

-Modeler and Layout should communicate better through the Hub. I hardly ever use the Hub, but when I need to I always have to do stuff twice ( replacing textures, pointing towards a texture or shader one of them can't find etc etc. ).
Also fiddling around with object layers is lethal for your scene with the Hub active. You end up with a complete mess.

-Talking about workflow killers, the Hub should be MUCH faster. When working with a moderately complex scene stuff like editing weightmaps is a complete nightmare. It just takes too long for Layout to update.

gatz
08-07-2006, 01:01 AM
There are more serious, but the lack of text field focus is what pisses me off the most. Click on a text field in the middle of numeric panel and the top-most field highlites. Of course I always forget it takes two clicks and I type in the wrong field. Of course there's no undo. Que "Deadwood" dialog....

Also in LW9, Replace with Object file is alot more touchy. Which I use regularly since using the HUB is just begging for it.

rg

Darth Mole
08-07-2006, 06:32 AM
I've said it before... when I press F9, I don't care what menu is open, what panel is open, what window is open - just render, dammit. Don't make me click back though to the Layout window. JUST DO IT!!

Oh, and can you please fix the tabbing/selection bug that's (sigh) reappeared on the Mac. Click on a numerical field, type in numbers, field entry jumps to the top field in the panel and the numbers are entered into the wrong panel - bingo, your scene is screwed because there's no proper undo!!

Haven1000
08-07-2006, 06:44 AM
Oh, and can you please fix the tabbing/selection bug that's (sigh) reappeared on the Mac. Click on a numerical field, type in numbers, field entry jumps to the top field in the panel and the numbers are entered into the wrong panel - bingo, your scene is screwed because there's no proper undo!!

I've headbutted the screen over that bug a few times, it's the little things that can make a HUGE difference.

toby
08-08-2006, 01:24 AM
Click on a text field in the middle of numeric panel and the top-most field highlites. Of course I always forget it takes two clicks and I type in the wrong field.
rg

please fix the tabbing/selection bug that's (sigh) reappeared on the Mac. Click on a numerical field, type in numbers, field entry jumps to the top field in the panel and the numbers are entered into the wrong panel - bingo, your scene is screwed because there's no proper undo!!
I HATE this bug. (feature?)

Cageman
08-17-2006, 05:50 AM
Someone mentioned clip maps not being a surface attribute. Well, the inconsistant ways to work in Layout is tiersome. As mentioned, some stuff can be done having multiple objects selected, and some things can't be done. In my case, if Clipmaps were surfacebased, no problem, but now I have to go through 100 objects that have clipmaps in order to set the clipmap to the right size. *sigh* Even if things like Clipmaps were a surface attribute, things need to be working consistanly throughout the software.

IE... I want all options in the object properties panel to work with multiple objects selected (adding a deformer, changing the clipmap etc, etc)..

Dave Jerrard
08-18-2006, 12:56 PM
when saving a test render it should auto put teh extension on the images. I get burned by that one from time to time.I've never had that problem. It's always added the extension for me, and I save a lot of images this way.


He Who Agrees With Most Of The Other Suggestions.

Dave Jerrard
08-18-2006, 01:04 PM
I was hoping that Displacements would be moved to the new Nodal Editor,They can be set up in the node editor now, using the Displacement channel in the surface nodes. There's also a dedicated nodal displacement as well.



along with Clip Maps.... This way i could of actually saved Clip Maps as surface presets, as well as Displacement maps as surface presets too.Yes. Nodes for clipmaps would be very welcome. And I also would like it if they were not limited to being an object property. You should be able to apply them per surface and per object. With preset support as well.



At the moment, i can't save any displacements as presets, which is as good as useless... Nodal was the perfect chance to change this, but didn't..But you can save the nodes themselves for now. It shouldn't be too hard to add preset support for them. So many things to do and so little time. :)


He Who Has Just Seen The Most Disturbing Commercial Ever.

iconoclasty
08-18-2006, 03:44 PM
No no no. Use the drop selection tool / . If you deselected by clicking empty space then I'd always be deselecting when I didn't want to. I actually DISLIKE that it deselects if I click the borders. Every once and a while I miss a button (I drink a lot) and then it deselects when I didn't want it to.

Dave Jerrard
08-18-2006, 04:58 PM
Every once and a while I miss a button (I drink a lot) and then it deselects when I didn't want it to.Been there, done that, and cursed & swore every time. :)

He Who Sometimes Has Bad Aim When Clicking Buttons.

toby
08-18-2006, 09:06 PM
Having to click the **** ****** *** ***** borders to deselect points/polys/edges. Why on earth can't I just click empty space in the viewport?
Gotta agree with this one, except clicking in empty space would lead to a lot of mistakes, and require undo-redo of selections... hey!!

Also nice would be a key to drop selections without dropping your tool -

RedBull
08-18-2006, 09:30 PM
They can be set up in the node editor now, using the Displacement channel in the surface nodes. There's also a dedicated nodal displacement as well.


Care to post an example (or grab) of displacements done only in the Surface Editor, and not the Node Displacement Editor?

I thought Displacement in the NSE was only Normal displacement?
As that would make Nodal far cooler for myself.

Lightwolf
08-19-2006, 05:38 AM
No no no. Use the drop selection tool / .
It only makes sense on a US keyboard though, unless you re-map the key, which a new user is unlikely to do. On my keyboard for example it is shift-7 , and does exactly that _as well_, but layer 7 in the BG.

Cheers,
Mike

Darth Mole
08-19-2006, 06:39 AM
Having to click the **** ****** *** ***** borders to deselect points/polys/edges. Why on earth can't I just click empty space in the viewport?

I've just remapped the keystroke (/ I think) to my middle mouse button. So I can deselect wherever or whatever I'm doing. I wasn't really using it for anything else...

iconoclasty
08-19-2006, 07:55 AM
Oh yeah, I've got drop tool, drop selection, and switch selection type all remapped to my mouse. Very convenient.

Darth Mole
08-19-2006, 09:16 AM
Grrrrr. You know the biggest workflow killer? Stability.

I hope my love/hate relationship with LW starts to be biased towards love real soon...

arsad
08-19-2006, 10:35 AM
It only makes sense on a US keyboard though, unless you re-map the key, which a new user is unlikely to do. On my keyboard for example it is shift-7 , and does exactly that _as well_, but layer 7 in the BG.

Cheers,
Mike

So you're on a german keyboard, why don't you just use the / on the numeric
panel on the right of your keyboard? (inbetween num and x) Works like charm here.

But I agree that on a german keyboard many shortkeys do activate other layers
as background (e.g. select connected, grow selection, hide selected) and this
is bad because some tools don't work when you have multiple layers selected.

Lightwolf
08-20-2006, 05:32 AM
So you're on a german keyboard, why don't you just use the / on the numeric
panel on the right of your keyboard? (inbetween num and x) Works like charm here.
Hah, you're right, I could (never thought of it, mainly because it has a different symbol printed on it). Too far away though, I have de-select mapped to something closer, like "end".

Cheers,
Mike

pureandapplied
08-20-2006, 05:55 AM
I've actually mapped drop selection to my spacebar, makes it nice and easy to hit. And point, poly (and now edge) selection modes are z, x (and c). I mean who wants to be playing twister with your fingers trying to hit control-g, or control-h every second? Worst side effect is that I'm always trying to hit the spacebar to drop selection in Potatoshop and After Effects etc.

Is making a script that drops the current tool, drops your selection and then goes back to the original tool possible? Is there any way of accessing what the current tool is? I might give it a go, could be a good "hello world" script for me to try.

Talkign about which, the edit keyboard shortcuts and edit menus things are a right royal pain to use. and I hate the way when you add a plugin you have to go and find it in a list that is sorted in No Order Whatsoever. I mean putting a list of strings into alphabetical order isn't much to ask for from the newfangled computers they've got these days is it now.

BTW It's all very thereputic to vent, but I'd love to see some sort of indication that NT is listening to this thread..

zardoz
08-29-2006, 03:47 AM
I haven't read the entire thread so I don't know if this was mentioned here.

I use the VB file requesters...I like to have my files ordered by 'Modified'...because the windows requesters don't memorize your preference.
But with the vb requester it's really annoying when I drag the dividers on top the size one doesn't pushes the modified one...and with all the space we can have in the window it doesn't show the modified date info completely...

I think newtek can fix this easily

tx

Darth Mole
08-29-2006, 06:29 AM
Not a killer exactly, but I noticed 'b' 'o' 'l' and 'c' aren't mapped to anything serious, so I immediately remap them to bones, objects, lights and camera. Saves having to stretch for shift keys, whatever.

Oh, and my render panel is Ctrl-F9 as I use that a lot too.

illusory
08-29-2006, 11:08 PM
Biggest workflow killers are:

#1...apparently ramdomly, about 50% of the time, it takes SOOOOO LOOOOOONG to switch from modeler to layout, or the other way around. Sometimes everything goes white and unresponsive and there's no choice but just to Waaaaaiiiiittttt....:grumpy: other times it (whatever I'm switching to) just sits pressed in on the task bar until it gets ready to move (reminds me of my son). This can occur even when I have no scene or object loaded yet! (This on a 2cpu dualcore opteron system with 4G ram) It doesn't seem to matter how demanding the scene is, or how long LW has been running. Seems quite random.

If this happens when going from modeler to layout, and I've been working on updating an object, it's especially painful. Because, if i ctrl-alt-delete it, I don't get my model updated in the current scene file, and am left with the

painful fact of

workflow killer

#2. When replacing an object in layout, LW9 only replaces the first layer, leaving all the other layers belonging to the original object unchanged. So, I have to load EACH layer individually, and parent them to the first. My current project has ten layers, and I can't tell you how many times I've had to do this -- because of killer #1, sometimes because of a crash.:oye:

That said, LW9 actually crashes less on me than LW8 (knock wood). Maybe it's my shiny new computer, but i get the feeling it may be because of the hub transition killer #1. Lw seems to be 'deciding' what to do next, taking its sweet time, but not giving up on it as easily as it used to. When it crashes, it's usually mercifully quick..

NJ

wavk
08-30-2006, 01:32 AM
not having interactivity on most tools, missing instancing.
lw for archviz is not really fun.
so...yeh, that would be my workflow killer...

mlon

bryphi7
08-30-2006, 02:20 AM
Todays workflow killer is the image node is not remembering my UV map...:cursin:

katsh
08-30-2006, 02:36 AM
I find it really annoying that when I hit 'P' I get my properties open, I hit 'M' properties close and motions appear, hit 'P' motions close, properties appear... arrghh!

Why can't I have them both open?
This is my biggest issue as well.:cursin: :devil: :thumbsdow

iconoclasty
08-30-2006, 10:28 AM
illusory, #1 sounds like your having a conflict with either some anitvirus software on your machine or maybe a firewall. I had a very similar problem (as have many others) and had to track down the program that was causing it. Because of the Hub's network traffic, "network" related programs can cause a significant slowdown in the Hub passthrough. Try disabeling programs and firewalls untill you notice Lightwave responding better. Some known culprits are Norton, Nvidia's AppFilter, and in rare occasions Window's firewall.

illusory
08-30-2006, 10:47 AM
Hmmm...what is "Nvidia's AppFilter"? I do have a Quadro card. But no Norton (perish the thought), and always disable Windows firewall. I have an antivirus program called BitDefender, which is supposed to be good. But I've also diabled that for auto-start -- it's not in the system tray. But maybe there's other 'bits' of it operating i don't know about...?

Anyone familiar with Bit Defender?

Thanks for the advice, I'll start ctrl-alt-deleting things and see what happens.
NJ

iconoclasty
08-30-2006, 11:56 AM
NVappfilter or something close to that. It was a process running on my machine that caused the slow switching on my machine. I'm believe it came from my ASUS motherboard that had an Nvidia firewall setup. So long as I kill that one process Lightwave works fine.

ChrisS
08-31-2006, 09:04 AM
This one drives me absolutely nuts, probably more than anything.
Have they "fixed" backdrops in Modeler yet? They haven't worked "properly" since 5.6. Backdrops only remain using the '0' key (minimize/maximize). Accidentally hit any other number on the keypad, and you have to drill down to the backdrops menu and reload. That gets old really quick. :cursin:

Chris

kopperdrake
08-31-2006, 03:12 PM
Click to select items in Layout is hit and miss - and with Auto-Keyframe turned on means you have to go in and find where that keyframe is that you inadvertantly added an hour ago if you happened to move the mouse a bit at the same time.

Can we have items in layout have their outline light up when the cursor passes over them? That way we know which item will be the chosen one before we clock randomly?

kopperdrake
08-31-2006, 03:16 PM
This is my biggest issue as well.:cursin: :devil: :thumbsdow

Totally agree - you should be able to leave all windows open or shut as you like. The Global Lighting panelas an off-shoot (replacement) of the Lighting Properties panel is daft as you then lose your Properties panel once GI panel is open, and have to rehit 'P' to get it back.

All should be independant, or heaven forbid, configureable!

katsh
09-02-2006, 12:35 PM
Totally agree - you should be able to leave all windows open or shut as you like. The Global Lighting panelas an off-shoot (replacement) of the Lighting Properties panel is daft as you then lose your Properties panel once GI panel is open, and have to rehit 'P' to get it back.

All should be independant, or heaven forbid, configureable!

totally agree 2:P

Cageman
09-02-2006, 08:55 PM
totally agree 2:P

And I agree to what you agreed to.... :)

Red_Oddity
09-13-2006, 10:24 AM
Hmmm...where to start (at times i'm seriously considering dumping LW, i've already been using it less and less because of a lot of these annoying things, it has become more of a funny 'my-hobby-at-home-tool')

Most of these pointers are what is killing my workflow when i'm actually using LW for a job (so i won't point out animation tools as, well, you know)

1: Undo function in Layout general (should i explain this one, or do we all agree it just doesn work? Why can't i undo : Move Path, Path Tool, Move Pivot, Rotate Pivot, etc, etc), you don't want to know how often i just have to reload my entire scene in order to 'undo' an error i made with one of those tools.
2: Undo function in Graph Editor; accidentally clicking outside deleted the Graph Undo History (of ONE, that is 1, Undo)
3: Scene/Spreadsheet Editor; duplicating and deleting items just makes this piece of junk go completely bonkers, and the fact it is a Master Plugin doesn't help either (having to move and scale my Scene Editor to my preferences everytime i create a new scene get's old after 3 projects)
4: Render Output settings; options have to be done using Image Filters, why why why? (I'm asuming they'll fix/update this to a less archaic workflow in upcoming updates, but for now it is still a workflow killer)
5: the HUB; it's too slow and buggy to be used in a serious workflow.
6: Modeler's wireframe views; having selected edges or preview modes disappear behind a wireframe is not funny, this stuff should be projected ON TOP of the wireframe you are editing (i asume this might go away when the Modeler actually starts using OpenGL)

etc...

I hope a lot of this will get fixed anytime soon (but since a lot of this stuff has been buggin me for, oh, i don't know, 5 years, i seriously doubt it)

erikals
10-07-2006, 07:34 PM
No complains 'bout having to hit the spacebar 3 times? :), cauz I only use edges every now and then,
so I made a shortcut instead...

Solution, here's a plug if interested> (scroll down) http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55148

Wopmay
02-03-2007, 01:37 PM
... I click in the inset entry box and type a new value, but the value isn't entered in the offset box but in the 'rounding polygons' box. It does this with all the panels in modeler

In other words, the cursor jumps to the first entry field no matter what field I type in.

This has been driving me crazy through version after version, update after update. I keep thinking it's so obviously broken it'll be fixed.

Somebody please tell me it's not a "feature."

Or am I the only other person in all of Wavedom who experiences this? I've searched and searched these threads and I see barely a mention of it.

toby
02-04-2007, 01:23 PM
We've talked about it a few times. We all agreed...

It SUCKS!!!

stib
02-04-2007, 04:32 PM
Another one just popped up! I got 1001 objects that need the same APS gradient appying to them. If I could multi-select and then add once and have the gradient applied to all, great, 10 mins work. But now I'm faced with several hours work unless I find another way... :rolleyes:
The best way to do it is with find and replace in a text editor (warning! save a backup copy before you do!). To find the text that you have to search and replace for set up a test scene with two objects in it: one with the subdivision at default and one with the APS setting you want. Compare the two in the text editor and do a find and replace to change the settings to what you want. Now do the same to your big scene file.

A text editor that does Grep is invaluable for this kind of hacking. Notepad++ is good or Crimson Edit or J Edit, or BBEdit for the mac.

probiner
02-22-2011, 08:27 AM
A search brought me here....
How were these sorted out? =P

stib
02-22-2011, 05:06 PM
Sorted out? We're talking about Lightwave aren't we?

fazi69
02-22-2011, 06:07 PM
For me it is always sudden crash in modeler. Situation is alway the same. I tried everything from diffrent computer to yoga. Here is how it`s works :
1 of 10 times when I cut new created part of my model from one layer and want paste it in diffrent layer I have "guru meditation" ;-) Especially after newly created UV map. After many years I have almost patologic need to press "s" to save. (thanks for teaching me this useful condition, Newtek :-))
In every other situations, modeler is rock solid.

jeric_synergy
02-22-2011, 06:57 PM
Here's something that kills my workflow: the inability to DROP a selection while holding a tool.

probiner
02-22-2011, 06:59 PM
Here's something that kills my workflow: the inability to DROP a selection while holding a tool.

Statistics>Total>'-'

Or assign a Hotkey for ''Deselect All''

jeric_synergy
02-22-2011, 10:03 PM
The drop hotkey doesn't work when a tool is engaged, and moving to the stats window is just as bad.

JeffrySG
02-22-2011, 10:03 PM
Statistics>Total>'-'

Or assign a Hotkey for ''Deselect All''

very interesting! :thumbsup:

Pavlov
02-23-2011, 03:04 AM
- Clip mapping implementation - it MUST be a surface property.
- Clip mapping implementation - it MUST be a surface property.
- Clip mapping implementation - it MUST be a surface property.

then, in casual order

- Clip mapping implementation - it MUST be a surface property.
- hub not feeding image editor's changes - i messed many materials this way
- Hub and separate modules
- Lack of an embedded preview system (object/scene thumbnail in explorer)
- undo system
- lack of a compact scene format - a single file which contains everything or, at choice, just scene + object in a unique file (even a ZIP, like Fryrender does).
- others..

Paolo

wrench
02-23-2011, 03:27 AM
At least on the compact scene front you have Simon Coomb' Zip-It here: http://www.simon-coombs.com/utils/index.htm

B

digitaldoc
02-23-2011, 07:47 AM
Since they changed C= copy and X=cut after 7.5, I map the C key as "clear = deselect all" and the X as select loop, works pretty well.

Pavlov
02-23-2011, 04:11 PM
Wrench - thanks... yes there are some scene archivers (Save Project is the one i use) but it's not same as having a compact project format like, i.e. MAX file.

Paolo

VirtualFM
02-23-2011, 05:39 PM
Well, if a "compact scene" will be implemented - and I'm sure it will be useful in some situations -, the current method of having "scene" and "objects" saved separately CAN'T go away! It's great to be able to save an object and build a OBJECT library, without lights and cameras and other stuff messing around. And replacing objects it's a breeze (like having boxes as standings and then if you replace the objects by the proper modeled objects the scene will get updated, even if you were working on something else, like Lighting). I know Max allows other forms of collaborative work (like live updating of objects in case they are changed, I think), but I still lie the idea of "scene" (setup with cameras, lights, etc) vs "objects" (actual geometry).

ANYWAY... to be on-topic, I do have my own recent workflow breaker! It's because of Windows7! If you hold one of the "list-choosers" for a while (a list of objects, or lights, or surfaces, or plugins), when you let go it switches to another application, like if you did "ALT+TAB". And this is always happening, sometimes because I am thinking while choosing, some times because the list is so big and you take time to choose, whatever, it really breaks the concentration and workflow.

Both Lightwve 9.6 and Lightwave 10 have this problem in Windows 7.

Hieron
02-23-2011, 05:51 PM
1- the current method of having "scene" and "objects" saved separately CAN'T go away!

2- If you hold one of the "list-choosers" for a while (a list of objects, or lights, or surfaces, or plugins), when you let go it switches to another application, like if you did "ALT+TAB".

So totally and completely agree with both your points.... Having objects seperately has been great for our massive scenes. I don't even want to think about having them in a single file... and I like it for the smaller scenes as well.

And the "list chooser" issue is driving me mad.. it's one of those utterly annoying things I can't get over that it's still in there. I'm constantly in a panic to choose fast or get alt-tabbed out.

jrandom
02-24-2011, 11:54 AM
For me it's not being able to use CC edge weights during modeling, which drastically reduces the usefulness of that tool. Argh. I hate having to reset all my edge weights back to zero and then setting them all back by hand everytime I make a geometry change.

Danner
02-24-2011, 03:18 PM
So totally and completely agree with both your points.... Having objects seperately has been great for our massive scenes. I don't even want to think about having them in a single file... and I like it for the smaller scenes as well.

And the "list chooser" issue is driving me mad.. it's one of those utterly annoying things I can't get over that it's still in there. I'm constantly in a panic to choose fast or get alt-tabbed out.

I have never suffered the - alt tabing while using a list- problem myself but I have seen it happen. I haven't switched to Windows7 yet, someone mentioned it is fixed on the next patch of Windows7.

fazi69
02-24-2011, 03:45 PM
Working on complex scene with many items I want to point my mouse on object and be sure that this item will be selected. There should be some kind of mark near pivot point, easy to click on. Right now when I select items while holding a CTRL key I have no chance at all to be accurate. ( I know that I can select items in scene editor but still, where is WYSIWYG spirit ?)

jeric_synergy
02-24-2011, 08:03 PM
UV Map creation: I think it's really awkward that users have to create a UV map BEFORE they use the "Make UV" button at the bottom of many mesh creation tools, ie "Box".

Why not let them create a New UV on the fly while they are looking at the tool?

jeric_synergy
02-25-2011, 01:52 AM
Camera movement: I wish that when you were in Rotation Mode with the Camera selected, that holding down the CTRL key would do the same as when you are in Position Mode and held down the CTRL key.

That way you could set the rotation and tweek the camera position at the same time, almost.

bazsa73
02-25-2011, 03:15 AM
In layout when doing surfacing with a lots of material it can be quite painful, would be great to identify them by click or something so at least it highlights the actual material on the surface panel but I guess Core will eliminate this problem.

Red_Oddity
02-25-2011, 04:02 AM
Well, if a "compact scene" will be implemented - and I'm sure it will be useful in some situations -, the current method of having "scene" and "objects" saved separately CAN'T go away! It's great to be able to save an object and build a OBJECT library, without lights and cameras and other stuff messing around. And replacing objects it's a breeze (like having boxes as standings and then if you replace the objects by the proper modeled objects the scene will get updated, even if you were working on something else, like Lighting). I know Max allows other forms of collaborative work (like live updating of objects in case they are changed, I think), but I still lie the idea of "scene" (setup with cameras, lights, etc) vs "objects" (actual geometry).

ANYWAY... to be on-topic, I do have my own recent workflow breaker! It's because of Windows7! If you hold one of the "list-choosers" for a while (a list of objects, or lights, or surfaces, or plugins), when you let go it switches to another application, like if you did "ALT+TAB". And this is always happening, sometimes because I am thinking while choosing, some times because the list is so big and you take time to choose, whatever, it really breaks the concentration and workflow.

Both Lightwve 9.6 and Lightwave 10 have this problem in Windows 7.

I disagree, it has to go away the way we know it right now.

Referencing would be a much much more powerful way to solve the scene/object split.
Both scene and object files can then be parsed by the same parser/reader, and it would allow to split workflows and elements to even more basic elements.

It would allow for much more professional and automated pipelines, and it would allow for splitting workflows to more specialized teams (lighters, modelers, animators, scene management, render wranglers, TDs, etc.), all working separately, but with the same file format that then can be assembled in a single clean render-able scene, heck, it would even allow for system like Katana to be implemented a lot easier when doing it the referencing single file format way.

Surrealist.
02-25-2011, 10:20 AM
No undo for selection and hide in Modeler

No universal embedded tools for manipulation in Modeler and Layout

By embedded I mean just a part of the interface. For example a widget that is completely customizable and can be the pivot on any angle/location, can be snapped etc. and used for all operations and works exactly the same with animation as it does modeling.

Very very sparse undo options in Layout.

Layout and Modeler separate.

jrandom
02-25-2011, 10:35 AM
Layout and Modeler separate.

It took me awhile to adjust to this but now I greatly prefer it. There are downsides (no lights, displacement mapping, etc... in modeler) that I hope are fixed in CORE, but being able to work on models separately in object space with Layout running concurrently is very nice.

erikals
02-25-2011, 04:10 PM
No undo for selection and hide in Modeler

true, but check Mentalfish's selection plugin...

erikals
02-25-2011, 04:14 PM
It took me awhile to adjust to this but now I greatly prefer it. There are downsides (no lights, displacement mapping, etc... in modeler) that I hope are fixed in CORE, but being able to work on models separately in object space with Layout running concurrently is very nice.

unless you do terrain sculpting, it's sometimes impossible to do without a camera view...

jrandom
02-25-2011, 04:19 PM
unless you do terrain sculpting, it's sometimes impossible to do without a camera view...

Interesting. I've not done terrain sculpting in modeler. What is your approach to this (I'd like to learn!) and what would a camera view do that the perspective view cannot?

3dworks
02-25-2011, 05:38 PM
nice thread. coming into my mind immediately:

* layout: clip maps must be implemented as a surface property (i am with paolo here!)

* layout: clip maps not shown in open gl and VPR (this last one seems under the way to get implemented - but please add it also in opengl mode!)

* no optional alphabetical sort of surfaces in surface editor in object or scene mode

* the whole network rendering concept: hard to setup, screamernet 'pure' is only for freaks... please implement an easy to use network rendering controller which works for both platforms mac and windows.

cheers

markus

Surrealist.
02-25-2011, 05:49 PM
It took me awhile to adjust to this but now I greatly prefer it. There are downsides (no lights, displacement mapping, etc... in modeler) that I hope are fixed in CORE, but being able to work on models separately in object space with Layout running concurrently is very nice.

The biggest show stopper is simply not being able to access point data. In Blender I have learned the benefits of being able to pose a character, weight paint it, go in and adjust the mesh, even let the animation run and stop it at a frame and check for modeling in Edit Mode. (And still be able to scroll the animation while editing point data) All these things in the same interface. There should be no wall between animation and modeling. It is all part of the same process and separating them adds time effort and takes away from the fluidity of your work as well as forces you to specialize your tasks unnecessarily.

In Messiah they have Point Animation which takes this concept a step further. Now you can animate modeling changes over time on the character. That is the kind of control an artist should have especially when many artists are expected to multitask.

This is the kind of thing people have been asking out of LightWave for a long time and out of frustration many have simply gone elsewhere for animation. That to me would qualify as a workflow killer.

Surrealist.
02-25-2011, 05:54 PM
true, but check Mentalfish's selection plugin...


I will... well I may. Is it compatible with LW 10 64bit? Does not look like too much info on his site.


But point being, you should not have to have a pug in for something basic like selection and Undo. Already too many things cluttering up modeler as it is.

Surrealist.
02-25-2011, 06:01 PM
Working on complex scene with many items I want to point my mouse on object and be sure that this item will be selected. There should be some kind of mark near pivot point, easy to click on. Right now when I select items while holding a CTRL key I have no chance at all to be accurate. ( I know that I can select items in scene editor but still, where is WYSIWYG spirit ?)


LightWave selection in Layout blows. Completely. That is being nice. I have found using other methods is more accurate and stopped trying to select in the view port altogether.

erikals
02-26-2011, 12:16 PM
Interesting. I've not done terrain sculpting in modeler. What is your approach to this (I'd like to learn!) and what would a camera view do that the perspective view cannot?

honestly, i'm not sure, but bryphi made a good point in his youtube video using a weightmap plugin combined with normal displacement maps...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP62YCjHUms

might also look into a fake lattice plugin from faulknermano, it uses bones to deform an object afaik...
BoneLatticeGN
http://thespread.faulknermano.com/_theoldspread/index.htm


 

VirtualFM
02-26-2011, 12:51 PM
In layout when doing surfacing with a lots of material it can be quite painful, would be great to identify them by click or something so at least it highlights the actual material on the surface panel but I guess Core will eliminate this problem.

Unless I am not understanding what you are asking, you can do that already.

Just open the VIPER windows and do a test render. Now keep the VIPER window open and the Surface panel. When you change the surface it will update on the Viper window (quite far away from VPR, but it works to a certain extent), but the main thing is that if you click on the VIPER window, it will select the surface. So in order to change a surface and you don't even know it's name, just click on the ugly surface in the VIPER render and change it to something beautiful :)

geo_n
02-26-2011, 12:58 PM
ANYWAY... to be on-topic, I do have my own recent workflow breaker! It's because of Windows7! If you hold one of the "list-choosers" for a while (a list of objects, or lights, or surfaces, or plugins), when you let go it switches to another application, like if you did "ALT+TAB". And this is always happening, sometimes because I am thinking while choosing, some times because the list is so big and you take time to choose, whatever, it really breaks the concentration and workflow.

Both Lightwve 9.6 and Lightwave 10 have this problem in Windows 7.

You have to set windows theme to Best performance in win 7 so don't get that list error switching. Basically turn aero and all eyecandy off.
It must be a win 7 issue because vista is perfectly fine.

geo_n
02-26-2011, 12:59 PM
My top two
Symettry in modeller doesn't work in all commands.
Layout undo and redo doesnt work in all commands.

VirtualFM
02-26-2011, 01:01 PM
Referencing would be a much much more powerful way to solve the scene/object split.
Both scene and object files can then be parsed by the same parser/reader, and it would allow to split workflows and elements to even more basic elements.

It would allow for much more professional and automated pipelines, and it would allow for splitting workflows to more specialized teams (lighters, modelers, animators, scene management, render wranglers, TDs, etc.)

That sounds good and all, and I think this is one of the ways we can work in Max, but how does that work when you have a scene with a zillion objects (an architectural scene with tons of pots and furniture and vases and plants, etc) and suddenly you want to change the shape of a fork...

In Lightwave, as we have it now, instead of loading the whole scene, that takes 20 minutes to load (this happens!) we would load the "fork" object that takes 2 seconds, take 5 minutes to change the new fork, save, done everything in about 6 minutes. The lighter, that has the scene loaded already, just does a "replace object" and loads the fork again (which can
be cloned a thousand times).

So, how does this referencing work? Can the modeler load the scene and choose just what he wants to load in order to save 20 minutes of his time? If that's the case, then go for it!

geo_n
02-26-2011, 01:15 PM
That sounds good and all, and I think this is one of the ways we can work in Max, but how does that work when you have a scene with a zillion objects (an architectural scene with tons of pots and furniture and vases and plants, etc) and suddenly you want to change the shape of a fork...

In Lightwave, as we have it now, instead of loading the whole scene, that takes 20 minutes to load (this happens!) we would load the "fork" object that takes 2 seconds, take 5 minutes to change the new fork, save, done everything in about 6 minutes. The lighter, that has the scene loaded already, just does a "replace object" and loads the fork again (which can
be cloned a thousand times).

So, how does this referencing work? Can the modeler load the scene and choose just what he wants to load in order to save 20 minutes of his time? If that's the case, then go for it!

In 3dmax I use xref. Superior to what we have now in lightwave because it references all data not just model data.
That fork would be xref'ed into a masterscene.max file while that fork.max is editable by other people. If it has animation,etc it can be referenced as well. You can bake/bind it later like an autocad block/xref so its inside the master file if needed.

erikals
02-26-2011, 02:44 PM
...might also look into a fake lattice plugin from faulknermano, it uses bones to deform an object afaik...
BoneLatticeGN
http://thespread.faulknermano.com/_theoldspread/index.htm

nah, seem you have to select every bone in order to make it deform, takes way too long unfortunately...

VirtualFM
02-26-2011, 03:25 PM
That fork would be xref'ed into a masterscene.max file while that fork.max is editable by other people. If it has animation,etc it can be referenced as well. You can bake/bind it later like an autocad block/xref so its inside the master file if needed.

Oh, I see! So there is a master scenes that loads other smaller scenes, and all of those can be edited separately, and since they are referenced thay are updated automatically in case the master scene is opened.

OK, great. I was going to say that it could perfectly be done by maintaining the scene/object ideology, just needed to change the scene format in order to be more dynamic, but I see that it's not exactly the same thing because of all the extra referenced stuff, like animation and lighting and such. OK, I'm convinced, even if I do like the idea of having a scene where we put our objects (a stage where we put our actors) I can see the advantages of that method.

kopperdrake
03-11-2011, 08:31 AM
Two from me:

1) I have a few hundred objects I want to add the same clip map to. I can choose them all in Scene Editor, but applying a clip map only changes the last one!

2) Packaging a scene needs to include object replacement lists (both the text file *and* the objects).

jeric_synergy
03-11-2011, 09:59 AM
LightWave selection in Layout blows. Completely. That is being nice. I have found using other methods is more accurate and stopped trying to select in the view port altogether.
I'm olde school and NEVER select in the vp.

Work in wireframe a lot too.

jeric_synergy
03-11-2011, 10:00 AM
Two from me:

1) I have a few hundred objects I want to add the same clip map to. I can choose them all in Scene Editor, but applying a clip map only changes the last one!
You mean Classic SE, or NSE?

It's more likely to work in NSE.
++++++++++++++++++++

Some of the complaints I'm seeing here could be addressed by using VIPER and the NSE more extensively.

kopperdrake
03-11-2011, 10:24 AM
You mean Classic SE, or NSE?

It's more likely to work in NSE.

New Scene Editor. I wish it *was* more likely to work in NSE :( Saying that, I have seen improvements in other multiple change processes using NSE, but the clip map function doesn't appear as an option in the NSE's drop down of available options.

jeric_synergy
03-11-2011, 10:49 AM
New Scene Editor. I wish it *was* more likely to work in NSE :( Saying that, I have seen improvements in other multiple change processes using NSE, but the clip map function doesn't appear as an option in the NSE's drop down of available options.
Did you notice my weaselly "more likely"?? :hey:

One thing: sometimes in NSE, the objects/items can be "selected", but to make anything actually happen you must also select a ridiculously minuscule checkmark related to the property at hand. Could this be the case here?

One other thing, the nuclear option of Scene editing: because your situation is fairly simply, can you do a cut&paste operation on the text-based Scene file itself? (Of course, use a COPY!) Clip maps are Scene based, not object based like a Surface, so you can edit them w/Wordpad if it comes to that.

Good luck.
++++++++++++
Where do you find the CLIP MAP settings in the NSE? I can't locate them.

kopperdrake
03-11-2011, 12:51 PM
Hehe - I did notice the get-out clause ;)

I'll check for the checkmark, though I didn't notice one. I've done them all manually in the end (phew), but the text editor idea is a good one and I'll probably resort to that one at some stage in the future. In fact, you've reminded me of another workflow killer that I used to text editor to get around only yesterday!

Workflow Killer No.3

If you have a multi-layer object in a scene, but need to replace it with a new version that was altered outside of Layout, ie you didn't bring it into Modeler from the open scene in Layout but altered it outside, then all's well as long as your model layers are listed consecutively in Layout. However, if the model layers have become disjoined, then 'replacing object' will only replace those layers in the first group of layers that lie together. Any others separated by a non-related object will remain as the original model version, meaning you have to update them manually by importing an object layer.

2 days ago, same scene, I had 576 items in groups of 48. The first group of 48 had become separated by a separate object, so I had to use text editor to replace the remaining 528 with the new object version. We shouldn't have to do that.

jeric_synergy
03-11-2011, 01:22 PM
I'll check for the checkmark, though I didn't notice one. I've done them all manually in the end (phew),
I literally couldn't find a reference to Clip Maps in the NSE.

Layout's support for multi-selection is, ummm, eccentric? It's not as comprehensive as, say, AE, where even "twirl-downs" work in concert if their objects are multi-selected.

Something for CORE to address.

kopperdrake
03-11-2011, 01:29 PM
I literally couldn't find a reference to Clip Maps in the NSE.

Layout's support for multi-selection is, ummm, eccentric? It's not as comprehensive as, say, AE, where even "twirl-downs" work in concert if their objects are multi-selected.

Something for CORE to address.

Likewise, having just had a look through the list. Here here to CORE ridding us of some of these issues - I have high hopes that clip maps will be integrated into object files!

jeric_synergy
03-11-2011, 02:53 PM
I have high hopes that clip maps will be integrated into object files!
Meh. There's good utility in having them in the Scene file.

Obviously, BOTH would be optimum.

Dave Jerrard
03-11-2011, 05:44 PM
Meh. There's good utility in having them in the Scene file.

Obviously, BOTH would be optimum.

Yes. They should be available as both a surface attribute AND an object attribute.

I would even go further with this in a Node Editor and allow them to be applied to Parts and V-maps.




You can't access the output of traditional texture inputs in the node editor.
So if I have a spec in t button on trad spec input I'd like to see the output of that in the surface node in nodal and be able to loop it back round and into the other inputs on the surface node

Denis Pontonnier has a node that does this in his DP Kit, called Surface Layer+, which is essentially a copy of the entire Surface Editor as a node, with each channel as an output. This has a button at the top, "Get Classic Surface", which will instantly copy all the standard surface information into the node. It also lets you remap the texture through its oPos, wPos and Aux inputs. A NewTek node that just accesses the Surface Editor would be very welcome though.


He Who Frequently Wishes He Had Both Of These Abilities Available.

Exception
07-23-2011, 04:24 AM
Workflow killer number one, of all time, as far as I am concerned:

No clip maps in surfaces.

This must be the most requested feature / workflow fix ever.

Pavlov
07-23-2011, 06:26 PM
Exception - you know i'm with you.
Hope that writing this every time it's possible, will push something in this area.
I just cant stand anymore Clipmap's workflow, it's beyond me.

Paolo

shrox
07-23-2011, 07:43 PM
I don't know if this was mentioned, but if Layout would render the radiosity cache, and then start the image render. As it now, you have to wait for the cache to finish, then start the render manually. It's a pain when you want to go to bed...

dwburman
07-24-2011, 01:21 PM
I think RenderQ might have an option for that, but I haven't tried it.