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csgoss
07-06-2006, 04:31 PM
Please help me as I have lost all confidence in LW and my Mac G5 2.5 dual, Ati 9800XT, 6gb ram.

I have been doing some intensive rendering of an animated walk through of a Fruit Machine Arcade, about 1250 frames. The G5 was rendering over a few nights and it has crashed several times early in the morning totally locking up and fans on full blast sounding like a jet taking off.
Has anybody had similar problems? If so what could be causing it?

I have a six year old G4 and that has been as stable as a rock....G3 before that, but not the G5, it does a better job of heating the room!

Lightwave 8.5 has not been that stable either?

3dworks
07-06-2006, 04:38 PM
Please help me as I have lost all confidence in LW and my Mac G5 2.5 dual, Ati 9800XT, 6gb ram.

I have been doing some intensive rendering of an animated walk through of a Fruit Machine Arcade, about 1250 frames. The G5 was rendering over a few nights and it has crashed several times early in the morning totally locking up and fans on full blast sounding like a jet taking off.
Has anybody had similar problems? If so what could be causing it?

I have a six year old G4 and that has been as stable as a rock....G3 before that, but not the G5, it does a better job of heating the room!

Lightwave 8.5 has not been that stable either?

one good thing after a 'hard' crash is always to start in single user mode and to do a complete fsck. probably your disk got corrupted after so many crashes. if fsck doesn't repair it, you may need a toll like diskwarrior or in the worst case, clean and reinstall the complete system. good luck!

markus

Jeff7802
07-06-2006, 09:06 PM
csgoss

I had what sounds like the same problem with my Quad G5 just two weeks ago. Turned out it was a SIMM Chip (RAM) that had gone bad. I removed all but two pair of the RAM and rebooted. I kept adding the additional RAM (in pairs) until the system crashed again. I removed those chips and the system has been running fine since. I'm still awaiting the replacement chips, but atleast I'm running again.

You might try that first before doing anything with you HD.

Good Luck!
Jeff

Nick Hilligoss
07-06-2006, 09:48 PM
Lightwave 8.5 on my employer's G5 Quad (4 gig RAM, Quadro fx 512 mb graphics) tends to crash sometimes when I hit Render. It did this from day one, with a brand new computer. (The computer keeps going, it's only LW that "closes unexpectedly".) It can be from hitting F9 for a test render, or clicking on Render Frame or Render Scene. Usually after a couple of crashes it will start up again and work. LW 8.3 on my PC is less stable than 5.6, but on the G5 this is much more frequent.

So far, once a scene has started rendering and saving frames, it's kept going until it was finished.

But right now, I've crashed LW 14 times in a row. Mostly I'm not even getting the "LW closed unexpectedly" message, it just goes. It crashes with the same scene that rendered ok yesterday, it crashes with other scenes that worked before, it even crashes with a new scene with only one simple 1 poly rectangle in it. Everything is normal, until I try to render.

At the moment I may need to drive home, get my PC, and try to transfer the object and scene files across, because LW on the G5 is totally useless and I'm running out of time.

I'm not sure I understand what to do with the HD, maybe I'll test the RAM first.

csgoss
07-07-2006, 01:36 AM
I have tried testing the OS with Techtool 4 and Ram and Drive appears to be Ok? But I have installed 4Gb Kingston Ram recently.... I do run quite a few applications on the same drive such as Final Cut Studio and Adobe Creative suite, so there could be a conflict there, although I thought those days were gone with OS9?

I am also hoping that Lightwave 9 will be more stable, especially when you are up against tight dealines and your Mac starts giving up on you.
Your confidence crashes along with it and you start having thoughts about getting a PC.

I think I will take it to a Mac expert and reluctantly get it checked out, especially for piece of mind etc.

Johnsongraphix
07-07-2006, 07:36 PM
I'm not sure if I have your solution but I have had problems with one of my G5's before and it would crash late at night unexpectedly and when I woke up in the morning I would have to restart it. That was the only time I have had that problem and turned out to be a power supply issue. I use UPS systems for the purpose of keeping the machines moving even when the electricity went out. However, the UPS was what was causing the problem. Apparently the newer G5's require more volts or something (I'm no expert). but as soon as I switched UPS's with machines I had no more issues. My mac's run 24/7 and I've been rendering on three of them for a two weeks straight. In fact they're still rendering now as I surf the web and listen to itunes.

My experience has always been PC's crashing constantly or acting up even when I'm not doing much with them. Then I spend a weekend troubleshooting the problem, which usually involves reinstalling the OS. They give me the biggest headaches, but it's all a matter of what you know i guess.

Ooh. Check with your screen saver or energy saver too. If the system tries to sleep sometimes it can cause problems. That's all... good luck!

Captain Obvious
07-07-2006, 07:51 PM
Put the system DVD in the tray, and boot the computer holding the alt key. Choose the hardware tests, and run the complete test. Faulty RAM might be the problem.

csgoss
07-08-2006, 03:53 AM
Thanks for the info, I will check the power supply issue and try the Mac hardware tests.

csgoss
07-09-2006, 10:44 AM
I did an Apple hardware test everything passed.

To test the machine again I rendered an architectural scene using FPrime set to radiosity, everything was going fine until just over 18 hours, then whammo!
Crash ... fans going full blast again.... it will be going to an Apple expert next week.... before I end up going back to the good ol' days of illustrating by hand.

gatz
07-09-2006, 12:55 PM
Did you let the hardware test loop? Hold down Control - L, run it overnight. It definately sounds like RAM issues. Did you add third party RAM? The Apple expert will probably remove this and tell you the machine is fine;)

rg

BrainWave3D
07-09-2006, 02:17 PM
I had the same problems with my G5 consistently when I purchased in June 2004 right out of the box, running just for a few days I noticed the fan sounded like a blow dryer, but nothing related to LW. It took three trips to Comp USA's authorized Apple service last year to finally fix it from crashing and the fan going crazy. I think the last thing replaced was the logic board. It's running fine now and no trips this year to CompUSA. Good thing I purchased the AppleCare...it's good until 2007.

Nick Hilligoss
07-09-2006, 10:58 PM
Captain Obvious -
There are 2 installation DVDs, is it on disk 1 or 2?
And how do you put a disc into the drive, without turning the Mac on and it already booting up? (I just KNOW these are stupid questions, but I'm deperate, I've got no pride left!)
Hang on...
Another 7 crashes, but I may have found something that helps. LW multithreading was set to 8 threads, I re-set it to 4 threads, and now it only crashes on render SOME of the time. I remember on my dual processor PCs it was common to set the multithreading to double the actual number of processors, so getting the Mac Quad with it set to 8 seemed normal. But reset to 4 threads, it's back to being unreliable instead of totally useless. I don't know if this would apply to other crash problems.

Captain Obvious
07-10-2006, 02:09 AM
The hardware tests are on disk 1, I think.

Boot the computer holding alt-cmd-o-f, so you'll boot into Open Firmware mode. Now, type in "eject cd" (in lowercase, without the quotation marks), and the tray should pop out. Put the DVD in, and type "reboot" and it should reboot. Now hold the alt key until you can choose the hardware test.

mike_stening
07-10-2006, 03:38 AM
one little work around that works with the rendering crash when hitting F9 is to click on the redner frame button in the render drop down, doesn't always work but does seem to crash less and can help if F9 is acting like self destruct button. same if F10 does the same thing.

newtekker04
07-10-2006, 11:21 AM
I don't have a mac, but like BrainWave3D mentioned, it could be a logic board issue. My brother had the same problem with his brand new mac last december. He put it on standby, tried to awake it, and the fans went on overdrive, even though the machine wasn't even warm. He tried restaring it a number of times with no luck; the computer was inoperable. He even was walked through booting to the bios by a apple technician, and even that didn't work. He took it back to the dealer and they found that the problem was the logic board. Good thing the machine was still covered - the replacement board costed $600+!

Scazzino
07-10-2006, 11:42 AM
The G5 was rendering over a few nights and it has crashed several times early in the morning totally locking up and fans on full blast sounding like a jet taking off.
Has anybody had similar problems? If so what could be causing it?

I had the same problem. It turned out to be bad RAM. I'd leave the G5 rendering over the weekend and when I'd come in on Monday it'd be dead with the fans running full blast.

I pulled out all the RAM except for what Apple shipped with it and it ran rock solid for a week rendering non-stop. I then added back in another pair of DIMMs and have been rendering for a few weeks non-stop. I'll try putting in the last pair (which is the suspected bad RAM) when I get a chance (I'm currently rendering some shots for my 3D short film BlastOff! (http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53591)) to verify that it starts crashing again, then I'll send that RAM back for a replacement under their lifetime warranty...

I also had similar problems previously with three G4's. It turned out that the extra RAM that CompUSA had installed was bad (or not totally Mac compatible) and once they replaced that RAM all my G4's have been rendering non-stop for months on end without any problems...

The tricky part is that the bad RAM passes Apple's Hardware tests, so physically pulling out the RAM and testing them one at a time (or a pair at a time for a DP G5) is the most reliable way to track down bad RAM problems...

toby
07-10-2006, 05:53 PM
For those of you who are only having LW crashes, not system freezes, the first thing to try is deleting the Lightwave preference files. Turning off the hub and not using JPGs for texture maps also helps stability.

Nick Hilligoss
07-10-2006, 11:25 PM
Thanks Cap'n Obvious. I'll try that.

Yes, I've tried the Render Frame and Render Scene buttons, they all crash just the same as F9. But at the moment if I open a scene, reset it to render with 4 threads, save the scene, close it, re-open the scene, and then hit render, it's usually working. Actually, scenes are opening already changed to read 4 threads, but unless I save them and close them and re-open them, it's like the text has changed but really it's still trying to render with 8, they crash.

Does anyone know how to find the configuration files? The manual says they are in System>Preferences. But there is no Preferences folder in System on this Mac. There is only Library, and in that there is Preferences Panes, but nothing to do with Newtek or LW in there.
There is Systems Folder>Preferences, but again, nothing to do with LW in there either. (Besides, if the folks at Newtek meant Systems Folder they would have been very careful to use exactly that terminology, wouldn't they?)

The manual did not say Applications>Lightwave, but I looked anyway and there is no Preferences in there either.

Toby -
I'm not sure if I dare to delete the LW preferences files, but I can't find them anyway.
How do you turn off the hub? It's a major pain anyway, I'd be better off without it.
Hmm... I do use jpegs for most of my image maps, since many of them have to be big enough to zoom in on in hi def. Maybe I'll go back to targas.


Possibly I should just back off here, since I'm way over my head... but in LW 5.6 and earlier I could go in and change some default setting like 30 fps to the 25 fps I actually use. It saved heaps of time and hassle.

toby
07-11-2006, 12:43 AM
Go to -
MacHD:Users:You:Library:Preferences:
and find -
LightWave Layout 8 Prefs
LightWave Modeler 8 Prefs
LightWave Hub 8 Prefs
LightWave Extensions 8 Prefs

and toss 'em. This is something you should know how to do, it's a common trouble-shooting technique, and is recommended before new installs.

The only thing you will lose is your custom menus, keyboard shortcuts, window layouts, and plugins you've added won't load anymore. You will have to add the plugins again, but the other settings can be saved to a file before deleting, and easily reloaded.

Turning off the hub is easy, just drag the application out of the programs folder.

JPGs have caused problems for a lot of people, several times I've heard people say "That was it! Much more stable now!" when they switched from JPG. The fact that you're using large images makes it even more likely a problem. A couple years ago it was recommended that we get rid of the jpeg.p plugin, and the quicktime plugin would handle jpgs better, but it's still best to not use them - they're ugly anyway. PNG is an excellent alternative, and have the best compatibility with LW that I've seen.

If your images are really big, like 4k, consider getting InfiniMap Pro. It allows you to use files that are 100 times bigger than LW can normally handle, by loading just the little piece of the image that's being rendered at any one time. The programmer is on this site all the time, Lightwolf.

csgoss
07-11-2006, 02:19 PM
Thanks Scazzino.
I will try removing the Kingston Ram, I installed 4Gb and that leaves the 2Gb Apple Ram Chips installed, which is probably enough for Lightwave anyway?
See how I get on.
I contacted my local Mac service company they said it sounds like a software problem? So I am really confused now.... I will reluctantly leave the G5 for a couple of days testing.