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d1wojo
06-26-2006, 09:42 AM
I am looking to see where people are getting there trees from for LW.

I see Dosch has trees and there is even a plug-in or two, I need so nice results but not an over the top poly count nor price point. Thanks everyone

Sekhar
06-26-2006, 10:02 AM
Vue 5 is a good source. Not sure what LW ver you have, but if you upgrade to LW9, you get Vue 5 and LWCAD for free (assuming the offer is still good).

gjjackson
06-26-2006, 10:20 AM
There's plugins for that. Eki's ModPak can do trees. There's a free one, TreeCage. There's also XFrog.

d1wojo
06-26-2006, 10:49 AM
I have LW 9, the betaand Vue 5 inf. I haven't been able to play with vue yet and was hoping to add some trees to my LW scene. I can't afford the vue plugin either and fromwhat I hear the exporting of vue trees doesn't give that good of results in LW.

About the other plug-ins have anyone used them and what kind of results, and I really am thinking about Dosch tree colection. :D

Captain Obvious
06-26-2006, 11:00 AM
http://arbaro.sourceforge.net/

It can export as OBJ. I haven't gotten it working yet, but it's free...

BazC
06-26-2006, 11:36 AM
I have LW 9, the betaand Vue 5 inf. I haven't been able to play with vue yet and was hoping to add some trees to my LW scene. I can't afford the vue plugin either and fromwhat I hear the exporting of vue trees doesn't give that good of results in LW.

About the other plug-ins have anyone used them and what kind of results, and I really am thinking about Dosch tree colection. :D

Vue trees can look great in LW, it depends to a degree on how complex you make them, try and scrimp on polys and texture size and you won't get great results. I don't think Vue trees are ever as good as say XFrog stuff but you can get good results.

I don't know what the Dosch collections are like but the XFrog sets are excellent.

You might want to consider a specialist plant modelelr, XFrog is excellent but complicated. Onyx is also excellent and a bit easier to use from what I've heard. Not quite as versatile though. - Baz

krimpr
06-26-2006, 01:27 PM
http://www.polas.net/trees/index.php

I believe that the Dosch trees were made with this Polas plugin, but I may be mistaken about that.

d1wojo
06-26-2006, 05:57 PM
I have a test of some trees from vue, exported into LW 9 beta.

Sekhar
06-26-2006, 06:15 PM
I have LW 9, the betaand Vue 5 inf. I haven't been able to play with vue yet and was hoping to add some trees to my LW scene. I can't afford the vue plugin either and fromwhat I hear the exporting of vue trees doesn't give that good of results in LW.
You could go the other way and render in Vue 5 (importing LW objects). I've done some test renders to compare Vue 5 speed/quality with that of xStream + LW (I have the new xStream plugin). Check out http://ravinutala.com/misc/Bali.swf.

This is a FLASH file with 1280x848 resolution and has 3 images: default is the Vue 5 render; if you move the mouse over the image, you get the xStream + LW render; pressing the mouse will give another xStream + LW render, but with Soft Focus.

This is a 1 billion poly scene, one of the bundled samples, and should give you a good idea of the possibilities. I think you'll like the trees.

automan25
06-27-2006, 12:01 PM
I just took a stab at the Arbaro program mentioned in an earlier post. What a great program that is. It's easily the best freeware tree maker I've seen. Very usable. It even creates UV maps for each of the tree elements. (trunk, leaves, branches) One of the reasons I upgraded to LW9 was to get Vue5 for its foliage capabilities. This program almost renders Vue5 unnessary for the work I'm doing.

d1wojo
06-27-2006, 04:06 PM
I had to do something so i went with Dosch's trees at doschdesgin.com and they look alright. I will be saving up for the vue 5 plugin xstream. Put the church I am putting this together for was willing to pay for the trees and I didn't have to pay for them so I got them. Here is a test, no lighting and only a start of the texturing but this will give you an idea of how the trees look from Dosch.

nerdyguy227
06-29-2006, 05:22 PM
Judging from that picture, Dosch trees look kinda small.

RonGC
06-29-2006, 05:56 PM
I use Polas Tree Designer and Leaves Designer plugins and they are great.

You can use either clipmapped leaves or more complex modeled leaves for a detailed close up. He also has free bark and leaf texs on his site for your tree creations. With a little thought you can even create vines for trellis's etc, as well.

The plugins are very easy to use and don't cost an arm and a leg to buy.

Just a thought.

Ron

Red_Oddity
08-03-2006, 07:59 AM
XFrog all the way...highly detailed textures, and most of the presets you can buy are tweakable...

http://www.xfrogdownloads.com/greenwebNew/index.htm

Cool part is, you can use the Xfrog stuff in Vue5's eco system

mac
08-03-2006, 09:58 AM
I use Vue 5 trees, they are good in the background. At Xfrog they have some high poly trees for free ..

http://web.inf.tu-dresden.de/ST2/cg/downloads/publicplants/

Safe Harbor
08-03-2006, 10:43 AM
Dynamic Realities makes a LW plug-in called Trees & Bolts. It actually grows trees and you can make pretty much any kind of tree or bush.

We also carry all of the Dosch products.

http://sharbor.com/scripts/search.cgi?ke=trees

stevecullum
08-03-2006, 11:48 AM
I've been searching for a decent tree modeler too. Now I've seen Vue 6 though, I think I'll hold off buying anything until thats out - especially if the syncing issues have improved.

3dworks
08-03-2006, 12:03 PM
Onyx Tree is very easy to use and 'botanically correct'. Also, LWO export options are quite sophisticated, with many settings for optimizations. You can also set the foliage as UV mapped clip planes with custom maps, etc.

cheers

markus

lilrayray77
08-03-2006, 02:21 PM
The arbaro program really is cool. But is anyone else getting really long export times?

AdamAvenali
08-03-2006, 02:30 PM
I use Xfrog for my tree modeling needs. I did about 40 different trees last semester at school and I feel in love with it. I'll have to get some results to you sometime here when I unpack my hard drive.

Darth Mole
08-04-2006, 02:48 AM
Not a terribly good example, but this was made with Pawel Olas' Tree Designer and Leaves Generator (bundled they cost €150).

He also provides a collection of leaf and bark textures - check out his website and gallery.

(I used to use Dynamic Realities Tree plug-in, but you get much better, more realistic results with proper UV mapping using this pair.)

Puguglybonehead
08-04-2006, 06:20 PM
I just use TreeCage. It's got some neat presets to get you started. Can make low-poly trees (but I prefer to hit Tab on `em). You have to texture the models, but it does create surfaces in the script. Does quite a lot for a free LScript.

duke
08-04-2006, 06:52 PM
Remember, it's better to use leaves made out of geometry than clip mapped leaves for rendertime - layers and layers of clip mapped leaves will take longer to render, but then pure geometry leaves will take more memory, so I guess you have to find the balance.

Red_Oddity
08-05-2006, 04:21 AM
Remember, it's better to use leaves made out of geometry than clip mapped leaves for rendertime - layers and layers of clip mapped leaves will take longer to render, but then pure geometry leaves will take more memory, so I guess you have to find the balance.

True for Classic camera rendering, but not with the new camera types...

I've been rendering trees with well over 160000 clipped mapped polygons per tree with Perspective camera and the rendering times where amazing.

about 30-50 minutes per frame on Classic and about 5 - 7 minutes with Perspective.

stevecullum
08-05-2006, 05:30 AM
Can you post an image of your 16000 trees?

gareee
08-05-2006, 05:51 AM
Daz3d has a number of trees, but I also really like the 'Lisa's Botaniacals" line of plants. They have many different flowers, vines, trees ect, and make an excellent cheap source of additional vegitation.

Red_Oddity
08-06-2006, 09:13 AM
These are some of the raw renders (without motion vector blur applied). It was part of a 1500+ frame render pass.

stevecullum
08-06-2006, 10:46 AM
Considering they are clipped mapped, they turned out quite good. I had a real issue with aliasing with instanced and clip mapped trees, especially the ones in the distance. If there is way to fix that, I would be happy...

jm.khayat
08-06-2006, 11:59 AM
Considering they are clipped mapped, they turned out quite good. I had a real issue with aliasing with instanced and clip mapped trees, especially the ones in the distance. If there is way to fix that, I would be happy...

forget about geometry for trees in the distance. Instance images instead and flickering will be eeasier to handle

jm

Red_Oddity
08-06-2006, 04:47 PM
Considering they are clipped mapped, they turned out quite good. I had a real issue with aliasing with instanced and clip mapped trees, especially the ones in the distance. If there is way to fix that, I would be happy...

True, the jittering was a really big problem...
It took a lot of tweaking with the mip pamming settings...
Don't remember quite anymore what settings i used after a while... I do remember setting differnt versions for the clipmaps, transparancy and color channels...When i have some time i'll take a peek at what it was exactly.

The tree shot was for a game for an insurance company (it's the escape sequence for this game : http://actie.centraalbeheer.nl/commercialgame/caluccigame.htm

robk
08-06-2006, 11:23 PM
I made some ground cover with point clone plus in layout with a rectangle uv mapped leaf and I cloned it in layout about 6 times and I was out out memory on a 2 gig ram computer. I love 3d trees and such but they seem to chew up ram faster than my dosch cars (that do a pretty good job of it also). Ram usage more than render times seems to be more of the enemy.
Most sample shots on tree generator sites show one or 2 trees but I would like to fully landscape my renders in 3d if possible. I guess using something like HD instance would work but you wouldn't be able to vary the trees much.
How many Polygons do the some of these programs produce?

duke
08-07-2006, 01:33 AM
Considering they are clipped mapped, they turned out quite good. I had a real issue with aliasing with instanced and clip mapped trees, especially the ones in the distance. If there is way to fix that, I would be happy...

Kill mipmapping on the clipmaps if I remember correctly.

duke
08-07-2006, 01:43 AM
There was a good thread on the Chaos Group forums (v-ray) about the various foliage options out there. Needless to say the list is alot smaller for Lightwave, but the overwhelming winner was Onyx. I don't own it, but at the few places I have used it, it's been excellent in being able to produce an absolute tonne of different species. It exports as obj with a UV, which you can then texture and reduce in LW (it's almost always better to do poly reducing in LW with Qemloss3 or whatever). The only problem with onyx is it uses polygons for everything. You can tell it to just use squares for leaves and clipmap them and such, but apart from that you wont get decent LOD's out of it so you'll be making your own billboards.

If it were a perfect world we'd have SpeedTree for Lightwave, which works in a completely different but very effective way in generating fast-as-**** foliage and great LOD management.

stevecullum
08-07-2006, 02:59 AM
Kill mipmapping on the clipmaps if I remember correctly.

Thanks Duke, I'll try that :)

stevecullum
08-07-2006, 03:03 AM
How many Polygons do the some of these programs produce?

A collegue of mine has Onyx and that save in LWO with a UV map. The polycount can be anything from 25K polys to 500K depending on species and settings, but from what I've seen it does produce excellent results. some clean up work is required though.. eg poly reductions and merge tri's ect..

oDDity
08-07-2006, 03:05 AM
The best looking trees are certianly xfrog. THey are high poly yes, but what I do is export them from xfrog with layers on, and judiciously run them through qemLOSS 3. It retains the great looks, but in some cases you can get them down to a few thousand triangles. In the vast maority of cases you arne't seeing them very close anyway.

StereoMike
08-07-2006, 03:22 AM
That means, IF you make it to the escape... Funny game!

Mike

[edit: oops, of course that was a reply to red odditys link to the flash game]

stevecullum
08-07-2006, 04:05 AM
That means, IF you make it to the escape... Funny game!

Yeah...lol...I found my way into a van and then couldn't drive it. At first, I thought this is an easy escape!

jm.khayat
08-07-2006, 04:08 AM
The best looking trees are certianly xfrog. THey are high poly yes, but what I do is export them from xfrog with layers on, and judiciously run them through qemLOSS 3. It retains the great looks, but in some cases you can get them down to a few thousand triangles. In the vast maority of cases you arne't seeing them very close anyway.

Yeah, Xfrog is very efficient and much more pro than Onyx in my opinion
What I did recently is got a nice model out of Xfrog and remodel the main trunk with LW Magic Bevel and Zbrush because Xfrog does not attach properly the branches, it places cones perpendicular to the trunk.

Example test here : (LW9 and Zbrush displacement)
www.jmkhayat.info/pro/new_test_platane03LW9.mov

jm

stevecullum
08-07-2006, 04:11 AM
The best looking trees are certianly xfrog. THey are high poly yes, but what I do is export them from xfrog with layers on, and judiciously run them through qemLOSS 3. It retains the great looks, but in some cases you can get them down to a few thousand triangles. In the vast maority of cases you arne't seeing them very close anyway.

I have xfrog 3.2 - but the only problem is, that it feels very unintuative. Node based modeling may make for some awesome trees, but it alot harder to use than Onyx. And Onyx has a decent library of ready made, real species tree.

IMO there isn't much between the two packages, other than the fact Xfrog is able to texture the trees and is a little more flexible. (as nodes tend to be)

oDDity
08-07-2006, 10:20 AM
You can of couse buy a huge suite of xfrog ready made trees and flowers. You can tweak those to your heart's content as well.
http://www.xfrogdownloads.com/greenwebNew/products/Version2/press.htm

stevecullum
08-08-2006, 11:59 AM
I should percevier with xfrog, becasue they hold up well at close range. As for buying a library, at $149 a go, its good value, but I'm going to have to wait until I get a project to justify the outlay. But in the meantime, a little bit of practice might help in the long run ;)

cholo
08-09-2006, 01:24 AM
I had a thread about some tree experiments I did a while ago. Look it up. I had made some very low poly trees and that had enabled me to get away with thousands of trees in a single landscape and it worked out really nice. The tree model and image map was attached to my thread for free :)

duke
08-09-2006, 04:13 AM
You guys should also grab the poly reducer from the same page as that free japanese unwrapping plugin.... wait I mean it doesn't unwrap japanese. Look you know what I mean. Anyway, it seems to do alot better job that qemloss3 at retaining UV info, and it's a tad quicker too.

stevecullum
08-09-2006, 08:37 AM
Already got all those quality plugs...shame the manuals aren't in proper English :)

gerry_g
08-09-2006, 10:06 AM
Don't think poly reduction will cut it when it comes to trees, there's nothing to reduce, everything is at it's most basic already, but take a look at this for a comparison

pixelgraft
01-04-2007, 10:23 PM
There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of talk about Polas Tree Designer and using HD instance.

Within a matter of 15 minutes, I made 9 very different trees from one background object, modeled a quick and curvy hilly groundplane, sprayed some points, interesected them with the ground plane and then used a random point picker plugin to make several layers of these points. In layout - load the trees in as objects, apply HD instance to the points and your good - thousands of HI-rez trees in no time at all.

jin choung
01-20-2007, 05:28 PM
btw,


you won't incur a heavy render penalty with clip maps. but try assigning those clip maps as a transparency map!

i've tried using vue trees with the alpha in the transparency channel and my goooooooodness.... ridiculous render times for even a single tree.

i believe this is the same problem as hypervoxel sprites rendering ridiculously slow when they're all bunched up.

also,

great thread! trees are some of those things where they're probably not the focus of a scene, but necessary nonetheless and such a pain in the butt to do!

jin

tyrot
04-13-2007, 02:42 PM
dear TREEwavers:)

I wonder what is the best Camera settings for clipmapped trees?

And is there any one who can explain speedtree approach? Someone mentioned it is using a different technology...what is it ? is it Ok to cheat it like this in LW?

and Why and Why Our clipmaps are not that much Good and non-jittering? I have two commercial game engines which works with OpenGL even with those have great Clipmap-alpha cut out feature. Nothing is jittering even in distance. Why cant we have razorsharp Cutouts?

BEST

Exception
04-13-2007, 07:23 PM
and Why and Why Our clipmaps are not that much Good and non-jittering? I have two commercial game engines which works with OpenGL even with those have great Clipmap-alpha cut out feature. Nothing is jittering even in distance. Why cant we have razorsharp Cutouts?


Just turn off mip mapping for the image in question, and it'll be ok.

Game engines are optimized for 1 thing only and that's easy. 3D programs have to account for every possibility imaginable: not easy.