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DonLao
06-21-2006, 02:14 PM
I ordered LW8.5 several months ago and qualify for LW9 upgrade, in fact I haven't even opened it beacause I wanted to wait for LW9. Does anyone have any idea when will it actually be released?

UnCommonGrafx
06-21-2006, 02:19 PM
Those of us using it aren't as concerned about that as we are about the quality, stability and robustness of the product that is released.

The community will generally answer this as honestly as possible: it will be released when it's ready.

Rich
06-21-2006, 05:05 PM
Since you bought 8.5 plus the free upgrade then why don't you download the beta of version 9 and give it a try? At least you would have a head start at getting used to using it versus waiting till it's officially released.

Penforhire
06-21-2006, 05:30 PM
Heh, since I'm still learning the 8.5 way I'm hoping 9 gets delayed a bit longer... Pop that shrink wrap and push some pixels around!

Verlon
06-21-2006, 05:43 PM
By all means download the beta.

And its not like LW9 is so completely different from LW8 that everything you learn will be invalid.

Most, if not all, of the keyboard shortcuts are the same, for example.

starbase1
06-22-2006, 03:39 AM
Those of us using it aren't as concerned about that as we are about the quality, stability and robustness of the product that is released.

The community will generally answer this as honestly as possible: it will be released when it's ready.

The problem I have with the 'when its ready' argument is that we have been waiting an insane length of time for this product. I am encouraged by the good things I hear (and see) of it, but the delays are getting silly. I would have thought there's been time for LW 10 by now...

I for one will not be giving Newtek my money up front again.

Nick

evenflcw
06-22-2006, 04:41 AM
It would indeed be nice to see what is in store for LW10 at Siggraph instead of a reprise of last year (give or take a few new and better integrated features).

Bog
06-22-2006, 04:42 AM
Really, starbase? I thought the involvement with the Beta program was well worth the £250 or whatever. I've been using 9 almost excuslively for about 2 months now as well. Best of both worlds - involvement in the development with a say in which tools I think are important and getting to use it earlier than people who didn't sign in with the program.

YMMV, I guess.

StereoMike
06-22-2006, 04:52 AM
I'll throw my money again at them for 10. Other companies demand a update fee you pay per year, so buying an LW upgrade is even cheaper than that.
And with getting cool new things along the way of a beta plus what comes in 9.xx it feels much like that annual update service fee.
I'm ok with that. I first played with 9 until it got my confidence and then started using it for commercial work, without going back to 8.xx.

Mike


It would indeed be nice to see what is in store for LW10 at Siggraph instead of a reprise of last year (give or take a few new and better integrated features).
I thought they would show LW9? Ah you were talking of siggraph 2008? :D

BazC
06-22-2006, 05:03 AM
Really, starbase? I thought the involvement with the Beta program was well worth the £250 or whatever. I've been using 9 almost excuslively for about 2 months now as well. Best of both worlds - involvement in the development with a say in which tools I think are important and getting to use it earlier than people who didn't sign in with the program.

YMMV, I guess.

Yup I've got to agree and lets face it the upgrade cost is peanuts next to most 3d apps!

I'm not sure they'll be unveiling LW10 features at Siggraph, there's still so much to come in LW9! New CA tools/workflow, new UV tools/workflow, modeler has hardly been touched so I'm expecting a lot more change there too. Plus modeling tools in Layout which have really only had the foundations layed so far. OpenGL in modeler......

Can't wait! :D

evenflcw
06-22-2006, 05:15 AM
Although I was not in it, the beta program does indeed seem to have been successfull. Atleast I liked reading about all the bugs squashed and how often beta users acctually got access to updated builds. The latter especially is very positive. Previously NT seemed too embarrased with their own software that they dared not provide their users with more frequent updates because there was always something they thought they needed to fix first or whatever (I can only assume this is why we still don't have a demo?). Such a mañana mentality certainly did not do LW, NT or users any good. I imagine this just stifles developement and left NT lacking much important user input. (So thanks to everyone who joined the beta and reported whatever bugs and issues they found!)

StereoMike, no I'm talking about this years Siggraph. As I remember it 2005 demoed many of LW9s features (like APS, CameraTools, Nodal, new OpenGL), although they obviously weren't as integrated and developed as they are now. They should indeed show some of that but I for one would like to hear and see more in detail what they have planned and are working on for the next version (I'm assuming they haven't just been bug hunting fulltime for one whole year). Sort of wet our appetites for LW10, just like sigg2005 did for LW9.

UnCommonGrafx
06-22-2006, 05:45 AM
Well Starbase1,
Ponying up money ahead of time is something of a no-brainer for me: it's an investment. I'm about to pony up $1k for my VT5 update and a free copy of SpeedEdit, and to me it seems simple to pay now to get more than what I would later.
Kind of like the Gasoline Banks they have in the NorthEast that has allowed people to STILL only pay a dollar for a gallon of gas.

Besides, I really like the 'conversation' that happens betwixt the users and the devvers. When we are heard (VT-side of NewTek, heed these words), users are much more likely to spread the goodness of the product.

I don't begrudge you your stance as I'm sure lots feel the way you do. But as I've been using it, earning money with it, beta or not it is doing what I need it to do. And then some.

zapper1998
06-22-2006, 06:37 AM
are we getting paid for this beta stuff?????

:D

rather we got all the bugs fixed before the Final release.
I can wait, this beta testing is fun, yep.

lunarcamel
06-22-2006, 07:15 AM
My gripe is the cost of the upgrade price - I've already learned that NT takes forever to luanch the actual release (for good reasons I suppose).

The cost of the upgrade is fast approaching the cost of a full seat of LW and the three BIG apps - this will probably be the last time I bother to upgrade early as there's really no need for most users to do so - it's all marketing baby!

BazC
06-22-2006, 07:23 AM
My gripe is the cost of the upgrade price - I've already learned that NT takes forever to luanch the actual release (for good reasons I suppose).

The cost of the upgrade is fast approaching the cost of a full seat of LW and the three BIG apps - this will probably be the last time I bother to upgrade early as there's really no need for most users to do so - it's all marketing baby!

I've got to take issue with that! Lightwave is extremly cheap which is the reason that the upgrade is high in comparison. Newteks upgrade policy is the best of all the major packages and one of the reasons I bought Lightwave in the firstplace! Remember you can upgrade from any version for the same price so if you don't like the latest version or can't afford it there's no penalty for waiting. Very different from some of their competitors!

lunarcamel
06-22-2006, 07:39 AM
Why should I pay the same price as the guy who didn't upgrade from version 5 when I've upgraded consistantly for years? I just wish they took that into account.

erikals
06-22-2006, 07:54 AM
LW9 must be right around the corner, it has been a long wait now, on the other hand the beta is really not a "beta", it's basically almost the same as the full product from what I can see/hear. Hope 10 will be released on time, no offence to NT, but it also has to do with credibility, pushing the deadline is never good.

As for price, the LW price is allright but then again progs like Xxx are almost the same price for the full package. I'm too much into LW now for a switch, but I think that is something NT has to concider address.

BazC
06-22-2006, 08:12 AM
Why should I pay the same price as the guy who didn't upgrade from version 5 when I've upgraded consistantly for years? I just wish they took that into account.

Well if that bothers you don't upgrade every year! It's your choice after all. It's not unusual outside 3d either, you can upgrade any version of Photoshop for the same price.

DonLao
06-22-2006, 08:19 AM
Thanks for all the replies everyone. I'm new to LW and wanted to start off right since I pre-ordered LW9 signature courseware too. I wanted to start learning from version 9 to complement the courseware...:)

lunarcamel
06-22-2006, 08:35 AM
Well if that bothers you don't upgrade every year! It's your choice after all. It's not unusual outside 3d either, you can upgrade any version of Photoshop for the same price.

Thanks - I actually didn't upgrade to 8 right away because I didn't want to get screwed for 6 months like some people did ...

Anyone buying LW pre orders should know the facts before they shell out thier hard earned cash. Be prepared to wait.

StereoMike
06-22-2006, 08:41 AM
400 bucks for 9 incl beta cycle and a blazing fast renderer (for my scenes) wasn't that hard earned...
This is really _cheap_. Don't see the problem.

Andyjaggy
06-22-2006, 09:37 AM
Newtek may be taking a while to get 9 out but it seems like everyone it being pretty patient with it. I remeber when we were all waiting for 8 to come out and how many insanely angry people there were back then. I guess maybe we weeded them all out!

So how do you download the beta version of 9? I was planning on upgrading as soon as it was actually released but if I can upgrade now and then download the beta I think I will.

Verlon
06-22-2006, 09:57 AM
I do not feel I was 'screwed.' I got Vue 5 and LW Cad totalling $700 worth of 3D assets in addition to my LW9 seat.

Further, I get a voice in the development process (albeit a small one--there are lots of users).

Finally, the beta version of LW9 has been more than useful for some time now. I only open LW8 for comparison now.

starbase1
06-22-2006, 10:32 AM
Really, starbase? I thought the involvement with the Beta program was well worth the £250 or whatever. I've been using 9 almost excuslively for about 2 months now as well. Best of both worlds - involvement in the development with a say in which tools I think are important and getting to use it earlier than people who didn't sign in with the program.

YMMV, I guess.

Ouch!

I would be very surprised if Newtek saw the payment as primarily for access to a beta program! Beta testing of software is normally either done by companies that need the bleeding edge functionality, (who are rewarded with a very high level of support), or in many cases the beta tester is paid. (I've done this before now).

And I can't see anything in your description that defends the huge time between when it was announced, and when we finally see a finished product.

Nick

BazC
06-22-2006, 10:42 AM
And I can't see anything in your description that defends the huge time between when it was announced, and when we finally see a finished product.

Yes Lightwave 9 is very late which is a pity. Newtek have admitted their estimate was way off and it's something they need to work on. Not many developers would be that candid in my opinion! From memory there were a few 3d apps who estimated their next version releases last Siggraph, they all said 4th quarter of 2005 if my memory is correct.

Lightwave - still not released (but close)
Modo - Only just released
Silo - still not released (but close hopfully)
ZBrush 2.5 - Still not released but... er... it looked very nice last time Pixologic posted about it!

The only companies I know that are never late with updates (Maxon for instance) never announce ANYTHING until it's going out the door!

starbase1
06-22-2006, 10:43 AM
Well Starbase1,
Ponying up money ahead of time is something of a no-brainer for me: it's an investment. I'm about to pony up $1k for my VT5 update and a free copy of SpeedEdit, and to me it seems simple to pay now to get more than what I would later.
Kind of like the Gasoline Banks they have in the NorthEast that has allowed people to STILL only pay a dollar for a gallon of gas.

Besides, I really like the 'conversation' that happens betwixt the users and the devvers. When we are heard (VT-side of NewTek, heed these words), users are much more likely to spread the goodness of the product.

I don't begrudge you your stance as I'm sure lots feel the way you do. But as I've been using it, earning money with it, beta or not it is doing what I need it to do. And then some.

I am primarily amateur at this, but I think you'd be nuts to base paid for work on a beta of anything. The next update could change the effect you got in a major way - and the change might not be the look you wanted. It sounds like it's been pretty stable so far, (particularly for a beta), but there have been enough reports of stability issues with finished versions of LW let alone betas.

Working with part built software always has the potential drawback that you could find you have been wasting your time on the next update. (Things are often removed as well as added).

I am actually eligible, but have not gone for the beta for exactly these reasons. I paid up because I figured it was so late already the finished version MUST be out soon, so I might as well get a look at Vue 5.

It's not a cost thing, I'm not about to spend my time building a project on wobbly foundations. (And I would bet that the documentation is unfinished too).

About the only thing that makes sense to me is to use it to render 8.5 or older scenes faster. You know you have a fallback in the event of problems with the beta.

Nick

hrgiger
06-22-2006, 11:43 AM
Unless there is a discount to be part of the beta team next time, I may opt to wait until release. I mean, we are in a sense working for Newtek even though I realize it benefits us all in the end. However, I think a $50-$100 discount to upgrade early next time would be nice. Especially now that I've been burned by the whole "upgrade while you can- oh, and then wait a year for release) twice now.

While I enjoyed getting an early view of LW9, it was hard to see it that way sometimes. First of all, there were a lot of issues that were still being worked on and it was a bit disheartning to see that it wasn't as close to release as I thought it was all the while it being toted as the most stable and bug free version of Lightwave yet(and in the meantime, I think something like 800-1000 bugs have been addressed). A lot of progress has been made and it really does seem to me that it's very close to ready butI don't know if it will all be worth it next time for LW10. However, having said that, I'm glad to have this new option if it does indeed suit me next time.

Bog
06-22-2006, 11:53 AM
I wasn't trying to be snippy, Starbase, just putting it down how I see it.

1) It's really not a lot of money.
2) Compared to the price of any other 3D package with anything like the feature set, it's really, really not a lot of money.
3) Yeah, it's late, but if you've pre-ordered it you've gotten at least some use out of it through the Beta program for the last several months.

I agree entirely that the one place NewTek could really tighten their act up is on their release schedule estimates - it's almost a running joke at this point. Dunno if you were around for all the jokes about LateWave, LightWave L[eight] and what-have-you, but at least it's the sort of company which says "Ooh, ow, yeah. Crap. Sorry! We'll try better next time!" rather than saying "It's not a bug. It's a feature. No, yeah, no the package Goes Away like that to prevent... erm... RAM overheat. Yeah. And it flushes out the cache so your scene doesn't... er... compost. Yeah, it's a feature. Good, isn't it?"

I know it'd be best of all to have honesty *AND* accurate time estimates, but out of the two points of failure I'll take the slipped deadline over the outright fib.

I agree that NT need to get with the Gantt charts and all that, I just don't see it as enough of an issue to take my money elsewhere.

UnCommonGrafx
06-22-2006, 02:07 PM
Welp,
For those times and issues you speak of, I still have the old betas that can easily be reinstalled (as has happened at least twice during the cycle) or I use the 'never to be erased until 9.x is done' 8.5 on my system.

To say that I 'would' be nuts ignores the fact that I AM nuts. ;) Better said, I will take any name calling in order to be able to take advantage of some things I've wanted for some time. I've beta tested before such that I'm ... savvy enough to understand where and how my bread is buttered. The new features, speed and stability has been actually enjoyable.

I've loaded [9] scenes into 8.5, sans the new stuff, and been able to render without a hassle.

Truly, I like the fact that when [9] is released, there won't be anything I haven't touched or used in it such that I can 'hit the ground running' with my use.

I understand individual's reticence to get onboard but I just don't share it. Much like you can't see the sense in my stance, I can't see the sense in yours. That's what makes the world great: differences and an appreciation for differences.


I am primarily amateur at this, but I think you'd be nuts to base paid for work on a beta of anything. The next update could change the effect you got in a major way - and the change might not be the look you wanted. It sounds like it's been pretty stable so far, (particularly for a beta), but there have been enough reports of stability issues with finished versions of LW let alone betas.

Working with part built software always has the potential drawback that you could find you have been wasting your time on the next update. (Things are often removed as well as added).

I am actually eligible, but have not gone for the beta for exactly these reasons. I paid up because I figured it was so late already the finished version MUST be out soon, so I might as well get a look at Vue 5.

It's not a cost thing, I'm not about to spend my time building a project on wobbly foundations. (And I would bet that the documentation is unfinished too).

About the only thing that makes sense to me is to use it to render 8.5 or older scenes faster. You know you have a fallback in the event of problems with the beta.

Nick

starbase1
06-22-2006, 02:23 PM
Robert & Bog,
Yes, I accept your points of view completely.

I have no complaints about pricing at all. It was good value before they dropped the price, it's great value now.

Yep, LW is a great poduct, and will be better still in the next release.

But... There are products out there that have had entire update cycles in less time than LW9 is late by! Well, I'm exagerating, but not by much. And we should wait for the clock to stop before we stop counting...

A repution for inability to make their own deadlines will NOT help LW get into critical markets.

And next time around, if Newtek tell me the next version will be here first quarter, I will expect it maybe 4th. And they don't get my money until they are ready to ship.

Nick

UnCommonGrafx
06-22-2006, 02:42 PM
Nick,
Good for you. Stick to your guns, my cyber-friend.

I guess I'm quite comfortable with the knowledge I have as to why it is late. I am even comfortable with your reasons for not wanting to go the early route later.

LW of recent past was great, no doubt; I guess now, I'm much more interested in it being stellar, i.e., have enough ooomph to compete with the likes of the now big 3. To that end, I understand that the tardiness of this release is an effort to make up for corporate, programming and manpower problems that were manifested by the previous stewarts of the code. The effort that I see has me rooting that they will get it right.

I am also rooting, as you are clearly stating, that they get their timing and release issues together. (Waiting on SpeedEdit.......................................)

However, ... I am much more interested in them getting it RIGHT. And letting me see it in progress takes me back to my earlier statement: I'm comfortable with the moment as I can see the effort to get it right.



I have no idea why I just typed all of that outside of the idea that you've offered quite a pleasant conversation. Thanks. ;')

StereoMike
06-22-2006, 02:49 PM
And next time around, if Newtek tell me the next version will be here first quarter, I will expect it maybe 4th. And they don't get my money until they are ready to ship.

It was the same with 8, so if someone didn't just jumped it, he would have known that.
Last time I got DFX, now I got Vue and LWCad, can you imagine another company making presents of such value?
And there's plenty of people using 9beta in production and getting great results. It's easy to deny the beta when you didn't try ;)

taproot2
06-22-2006, 03:18 PM
Well, I for one am looking forward to LW9. Expect release to be right about Siggraph time, when most of the 3D communities eyes are looking in the same direction.
Taproot2
www.provinestudios.com

Bog
06-22-2006, 04:05 PM
Starbase (Can I call you Nick? I'm Mark. Hi.)

No argument, chap. I would *love* for NT to be more realistic with their schedules. I make my living - pay my mortage, pay for my upgrades and tech, keep the wife in diamonds and pearls... well... £1 Novelty Machine bubbles.

I agree that they should. Then again, I can't help but think that this time, they were a *lot* overwhelmed by the sheer quantity of New Stuff they could get working, and thought "Sod it, let's get it all in there and cross-communicating!"

I hope your next upgrade experience changes your mind - and my opinion. Think we've said enough :)

Verlon
06-22-2006, 04:22 PM
Technically speaking, I don't believe studios base their production on UNTRIED software if they can help it. Many professionals talk about STILL having LW7 installed (or 8.3 or whatever).

This gives them the opportunity to evaluate the software also...and many of them are reported (by Newtek, so take it how you will) to prefer the LW9 beta to any previous version of Lightwave as a production tool.

My position is clear. Now after the LW8 upgrade cylce, I was debating hard on a pre-order this time, but the offer was too good to pass up.

Perhaps it will be next time also (if not, then I am almost maybe next to certain to wait until it ships :) ), and hopefully it will include a beta if it runs over its date.

I know that speaking to a Irene at a recent event, she implied that the things planned for 10 would be even bigger than LW9.

Bog
06-22-2006, 04:23 PM
9 has been far more stable than 8.5 for months.

And it does lots more cool stuff.

Mmm. Nine.

evenflcw
06-23-2006, 05:32 AM
Ofcourse things for LW10 will be bigger. Modeler is suppose to merge with Layout (and the animation system is suppose to get an overhaul!)... this should mean a massive change in LWs interface and workflow. The changes we've seen to date imo haven't changed workflows that much, you still access the same panels, you still edit your models in Modeler, you still hit f9 to render etc. LW9 is still the old LW but better (in some areas). LW10 will be a new and different LW.

prospector
06-23-2006, 06:45 AM
Modeler is suppose to merge with Layout

If so, this will be my last update. :cry:

GandB
06-23-2006, 08:05 AM
I'm coming from TrueSpace, and for the price of the new upgrade (V.7) alone you could buy XSI. There are still a number of bugs (as with most any program), but the price of TS7 is dangerously close to a full seat of Lightwave.

In order to Beta test TrueSpace 7 before it was released, you had to buy a "ProTeam" membership. With this membership you could have access to the beta of version 7 along with all of the available courses (which were a bit overpriced IMO). But the cost of a ProTeam membership is $1,000/year. It didn't come with Vue 5 Infinite, or any other program for that matter. If you think $150 for the chance to beta LW9 and get Vue 5 Infinite isn't worth the money, then I don't know what to tell you. It took Caligari 4 years to get to version 7; granted they had to rebuild the whole architecture to do it.

I guess as a new LW user, I don't have too much of a problem with these "smaller" delays. Then again, I wasn't around during the "Latewave" era.:)

-Keith

evenflcw
06-23-2006, 08:48 AM
If so, this will be my last update. :cry:

Well, all you crybabies and traditionalists can probably use the old Modeler, or something like it but better, if you want to. I'd rather evolve my own workflow along with LWs. The only other option is to go elsewhere, and I'm not quite prepared to do that just yet.

I really can't understand that hardcore attitude against integration. Is the separation really all that makes up Lightwaves appeal to you guys?

PS1. Sorry for going abit off topic, but we won't get a straight answer to that topic anyways.
PS2. "Merge" might have been too strong a word. Maybe I should've just said Layout will be able to modeling and not mention Modeler at all, because just like everyone else I don't know what will happen to Modeler as we know it today.

StereoMike
06-23-2006, 11:19 AM
"I really can't understand that hardcore attitude against integration. Is the separation really all that makes up Lightwaves appeal to you guys?"

My feeling is, that it's not a minority who wants it separated. If you read the interviews on newtek (and nt-europe), with the obligatory question for merging modeler and layout, you get the impression that opinions are quite mixed on this topic.
I also _love_ it like it is. I would appreciate the possibilities of modeling tools in layout (for cool new effects), but building a model from scratch with using a dozen and more layers feels just right in a dedicated working environment like modeler. Ok, if the guys manage to make a button that transforms layout into modeler (that means, i only see the one object i want to edit, have my 4 viewports instantly, tabs and panels change etc.) than I can go that way. But seeing how that "edit bones" button mixes my scenes up like a tornado, I feel that someone there didn't has the maturity to do the layout/modeler merge, yet.
I might be wrong. Hopefully.

Mike

johnnyh66
06-23-2006, 11:28 AM
I wish it had come out already... I really really need the orthographic camera TODAY!
Anyone know a good cam setting for this, I keep tweaking between FL of 15mm - 80mm... close but not quite right.

Verlon
06-23-2006, 12:06 PM
There are advantages and drawbacks to merging. Being able to tweak a model without swithing applications would be nice, but I have gotten used to things the way they are (and it DOUBLES available keyboard shortcuts :) )

Personally, there are things that are much more important to me than merging the two.

StereoMike
06-23-2006, 12:16 PM
@johnny66
why don't you get the 9 update? I was already able to earn some money with the new ortho cam.

gjjackson
06-23-2006, 12:28 PM
If so, this will be my last update. :cry:

From everything I've heard they are merging functions but the option of using separate will still be there.

bobakabob
06-23-2006, 02:07 PM
Lightwave 9 might be late but IMO it's reassuring to see good quality control from Newtek. Remember how highly 5.5 was so well respected in the late 90s for its reliability? And innovations such as MetaNurbs subpatching left ridiculously expensive rival apps standing.

Now it's generally perceived Lightwave has some catching up to do. It's good to see Newtek addressing this and promising to focus on the shortcomings of the animation tools in future releases. I really do think 9 will be worth the wait: compared to Max and XSI, LW is infinitely more artist friendly and intuitive. Not to mention astounding value. IMO the 3D community owes a debt of gratitude to Newtek for making 3D affordable. Without Lightwave 10 years ago you would have to mortgage your house to make a 5 minute animation.

There have been mistakes - take IK Boost and Cloth dynamics. Only Larry and a few hard core Lightwavers have figured out how they work. This is a major flaw guaranteed to alienate users. Let's hope the dev team keep up the momentum and don't lose the intuitive simplicity which was the core of Lightwave's interface.

After all the turbulence of the last couple of years, an inferior buggy release would be a hammer blow to Newtek's reputation. So this release has to be good. All the signs are that this is the start of a genuine Lightwave revival: there's positive communication with the userbase and some powerful developments.

PS An interesting article in the Guardian about the lateness of Vista and software development in general:


In the US, for example, a Standish Group survey found that more than a third of software projects were simply abandoned unfinished. The average project was 90% over budget and exceeded its schedule by 120%. "In the larger companies, the news is even worse: only 9% of their projects come in on time and on budget," the report said. "And, even when these projects are completed, many are no more than a mere shadow of their original specification requirements. Projects completed by the largest American companies have only approximately 42% of the originally proposed features and functions."

calilifestyle
06-23-2006, 04:09 PM
LW9 must be right around the corner, it has been a long wait now, on the other hand the beta is really not a "beta", it's basically almost the same as the full product from what I can see/hear. Hope 10 will be released on time, no offence to NT, but it also has to do with credibility, pushing the deadline is never good.

As for price, the LW price is allright but then again progs like Xxx are almost the same price for the full package. I'm too much into LW now for a switch, but I think that is something NT has to concider address.


But its not is it

prospector
06-23-2006, 04:53 PM
From everything I've heard they are merging functions but the option of using separate will still be there

cool, could go for that
keep 'em seperate, speed up the hub, run dual monitors(1 layout, 1 modeler), run a ramdisk (thier free) about a gigs worth, and good to go.

Modeler realtime update in layout.
the perfect system

Penforhire
06-23-2006, 06:04 PM
bobakabob, I'm not surprised at the low on-time scheduling. Every time I set a realistic project schedule where I work (as an engineering manager) it gets arbitrarily reduced. So of course we're not on time. It becomes a game of how much sandbagging I can get away with in the planning step to try and actually hit a deadline! Very strange but seemingly common. And my marketing guys love to rush to market with press releases and data sheets (on to-be-late vaporware) as soon as they can.

Bog
06-23-2006, 06:38 PM
*bounces a smoke-ring off monitor 0*

For 12 years now, NewTek have kept on keeping me not just competative, but creative, and intellectually stimulated.

It means I'm having to re-address what I can do in one hour, because I can do so very much more in one hour now than I could a few months back. Heck, in some ways I'm still trying to shake loose of what I could do in an hour ten years ago.

It's so very darn cool.