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sonofmickel
06-20-2006, 12:44 PM
Is there a way to integrate with Apple Shake? I know that Shake will import the Maya .ma ascii files. I have searched and can not find any info about this for Lightwave. Has anyone been using Shake and LW together? How about LW9? Apple are probably going to drop support for Shake but it is still a fantastic bagain(I think).

toby
06-20-2006, 03:13 PM
Is there a way to integrate with Apple Shake? I know that Shake will import the Maya .ma ascii files. I have searched and can not find any info about this for Lightwave. Has anyone been using Shake and LW together? How about LW9? Apple are probably going to drop support for Shake but it is still a fantastic bagain(I think).
??
Why would they stop supporting shake?

I don't think you'll ever see shake import LW files.

sonofmickel
06-20-2006, 04:33 PM
Apple has specifically stated that this is the LAST version of Shake as we know it. You can get arefund of your serviced contracts or not. They will come up with something new in the future.

I do not ask if Shake imports LW files, that would be foolish. I asked if LW can export any files that Shake can use such as, or like, but not exactly .ma like MAya. Shake supports .ma files perfectly. Of course I would need Maya then.

archiea
06-20-2006, 06:01 PM
Apple has specifically stated that this is the LAST version of Shake as we know it. You can get arefund of your serviced contracts or not. They will come up with something new in the future.
\

Where did you hear this.. it wasn't part of their pres release...

loki74
06-20-2006, 06:12 PM
Yes, dropping Shake would seem very needless and abrupt on Apple's part... could you please PLEASE provide a link to the page you read this from, or at the very least provide more details.

Like I said, this does seem very odd. However, at the moment I am inclined to believe you--from the http://www.apple.com/shake/topquestions.html page,


If you currently own a retail box version of Shake 4, a CD crossgrade is available for $49. If you own an earlier retail box version of Shake, you can purchase Shake 4.1 for the modest price of $499.

The way I figure, this means one of two things:

- The sales of new versions has been discontinued, and the $500 price is for those who want to crossgrade to Universal, and currently own a version <4.

or,

- They are making the people who own box versions <4 pay the same price as those who want to buy new.

In any case, the 500 seems to good to be true, and would seem to be indicitave of discontinuation....which still makes no sense to me.

sonofmickel
06-20-2006, 09:21 PM
This is from Highend3d.com

-----------IMPORTANT NOTICE-----------

New Mac OS X seats can now be purchased via the Retail box for a modest
price of $499 with unlimited render licenses. Shake 4.1 Linux licenses
remain available directly through [email protected]

Apple will no longer be selling maintenance for Shake and no further
software updates are planned as we begin work on the next generation of
Shake compositing software. While we're excited about the innovations we can
bring in the future, we understand you have a business to run today that
requires Shake. To that end, we will provide all Maintenance customers with
the following three options:

A. Customers can continue with end-user e-mail support, as well as SDK
support for the duration of their Maintenance contract.

B. Customers may elect to cancel their Maintenance and receive a pro-rated
refund for the unused portion. Existing software licenses would continue to
function according to the Software License Agreement. Maintenance customers
that wish to cancel their contract must do so by July 23, 2006.

C. Additionally, Maintenance customers may choose to license the Shake 4.1
Source Code for $50,000. The Source Code license includes a 5,000 seat
volume license of Shake 4.1. This offer is designed to help facilities with
significant Shake investments maintain a reliable and controllable visual
effects pipeline. Maintenance customers that wish to license the Shake 4.1
Source Code must do so by July 23, 2006. Apple reserves the right to refuse
any maintenance customer source Code access.

loki74
06-20-2006, 10:13 PM
Thank you!!

okay, I guess this means the key part of what you said is "as we know it." The phrase "as we begin work on the next generation of
Shake compositing software" suggests that development will continue, but to expect some big changes in the future.

I dont know much about application development, but I wouldn't be surprised if they are rewriting Shake from top to bottom for the next release. (As I understand it, this is common practice among developers--please correct me if I'm wrong) I also wouldnt be surprised if they are also updating Shake's UI to match the ProKit Framework seen in Motion, Soundtrack, and DVDSP.

It seems to me like it would be a good idea to hop on this... I think we are free to speculate as to whether or not the pricing will stay the same for the next update, but it is fair to assume that there will be an upgrade discount in any case. The $499 deal is good no matter how you cut it, even if the price jumps back up to $3000 after the new release.

Then again, the new pricing may be here to stay--according to an article (http://www.macnn.com/articles/06/06/20/apple.releases.shake.41/) on MacNN,


"At just $499, Shake is now priced as low as a plug-in for Final Cut Studio," said Rob Schoeben, Apple's vice president of Applications Product Marketing. "Now Final Cut Studio customers can retouch their shots with Shake's optical flow technology or add photo realistic visual effects to their productions, even on a shoestring budget."

Assuming this new plugin idea stays through the next release, the plugin pricing would stay the same.

And for that matter, who knows--perhaps the next release will actually be a plugin for FCP? (I personally would prefer a standalone app...)

But I am about 98.73% certain that Apple is NOT ending Shake--it is THE choice for compositing in the film industry, and that is definately a cash cow for Apple. Besides, "next generation" and "excited about the innovations we can bring in the future," arent exactly phrases I associate with cutting off a program.

----------
EDIT: I realized that in the Highend3D article you referenced, it mentioned that Shake 4.1 is a "maintenence release." ........exactly what does this mean? Does this mean this is only available to people who currently own Shake?

gatz
06-21-2006, 04:44 AM
The talk is that the next "Shake" will be based on Final Cut code and will surface as Final Cut Extreme an uber editing and compositing package. This is due in 2008 with a $10,000 price tag. (There goes my Face Robot savings...)There seems to be some speculation that the current Shake, Live Type and Motion will be brundlefly'd into an app to be offered in the the "low end" suite.

Primatte alone is worth the $499.

I'm guessing the "maintance" label for this release is because it is now MacTel native.

rg

radams
06-21-2006, 07:41 AM
The talk is that the next "Shake" will be based on Final Cut code and will surface as Final Cut Extreme an uber editing and compositing package. This is due in 2008 with a $10,000 price tag. (There goes my Face Robot savings...)There seems to be some speculation that the current Shake, Live Type and Motion will be brundlefly'd into an app to be offered in the the "low end" suite.

Primatte alone is worth the $499.

I'm guessing the "maintance" label for this release is because it is now MacTel native.

rg

Hi Gatz,

Well I don't think it will be based on FCP code... But the Next Gen will be based more on GPU and total interactivity in both 2D and 3D. They are looking to leap frog the technology...thus the reason for going black to finish developing the core...which will also be part of the OS and some other things...still not disclosed.

This whole concept shift is going be very radical...and might likely create not only a new concept of production based apps/workflow... We'll see what happens in 2008...but until then...I placing my bets here with NT to innovate and develope their own NextGEN...besides what they are doing now ;)

BTW, GATZ, I'm here in Tucson as well...Where are you located... Drop me an [email protected]

Cheers,

loki74
06-21-2006, 02:30 PM
The talk is that the next "Shake" will be based on Final Cut code and will surface as Final Cut Extreme an uber editing and compositing package. This is due in 2008 with a $10,000 price tag. (There goes my Face Robot savings...)There seems to be some speculation that the current Shake, Live Type and Motion will be brundlefly'd into an app to be offered in the the "low end" suite.

Primatte alone is worth the $499.

I'm guessing the "maintance" label for this release is because it is now MacTel native.

rg

As I understand it, the Final Cut Extreme thing is a rumor, and that no such thing has been announced from Apple.

In any case, if they put the price point for the editing system at $10K, they would definately have a hard time competing with other systems.

As it is right now, you can get FCS (FCP , Soundtrack, Motion, & DVDSP) for $1200. Assuming the $3000 pricetag on Shake were the same, this would put you at $4200. Thats under 1/2 of what you are proposing. Regardless of what the big names in Hollywood can afford, I think this would be a poor move. People would be much more inclined to bounce for Nuke, Fusion, or Combustion; chances are they already have an up-and-running NLE. So if they moved away from Shake, they would have to rework only the compositing section of the pipeline. If they went with this theoretical Final Cut Extreme, their editing AND compositing workflow would have to change, and with a much heftier pricetag at that.

Really, I don't think we'll see that drastic of a change. I see a next gen app coming out (possibly with a new name) with the same $3000 price point, except it will have seamless visual and workflow continuity with the rest of FCS. ...and of course, probably a bunch of new features.

but then again, your guess is as good as mine, given that Apple really hasn't provided any details.

PS--"maintenance" doesn't have to do anything with the Core Duo chips--thats what the Universal mark indicates.

KillMe
06-21-2006, 05:26 PM
might see alot of people migrate to fusion 5 with this - as its a known quantity - and from some of the reviews i've read its very very good - and anything could happen when they abandon the old adn start from scratch

gatz
06-21-2006, 08:22 PM
As I understand it, the Final Cut Extreme thing is a rumor, and that no such thing has been announced from Apple.



Yes a rumor. Posted by the same folks that predicted the Shake price reduction. Sometimes that's all they give us.;)

RonGC
06-21-2006, 10:22 PM
Apple did something similar with FCP already, they bundled it with DVDstudioPro, motion, soundstage. etc. all for the price of what FCP used to cost solo.

They have been progressively offering more for less money and i can see a similar thing happening with shake.

Apple really does seem to want to put creative video power in the hands of everyone for a price they can afford. They have repeatedly stated that they want the average user to have the power to create anything they can imagine.

Seems to me this is another step in that direction.

Ron

riki
06-22-2006, 12:06 AM
great news, hard to believe. I'd be peeved if I'd just forked out 3k for a copy though.

Red_Oddity
06-22-2006, 06:21 AM
I wonder what that means for the Linux version...
Right now you have to contact Apple via email to even get ANY infor on the Linux version (price/version/features)

loki74
06-22-2006, 01:10 PM
Yes a rumor. Posted by the same folks that predicted the Shake price reduction. Sometimes that's all they give us.;)

Its not the actual concept of Final Cut Extreme that I think is really far fetched--its the $10K pricetag. I don't think the power of even Shake and FCP can leverage the combined workflow makeover and monetary investment people would have to make. If they're gonna make Extreme, I think they'll price it very competitvely, at least enough to make the workflow changes worth it. And, as Ron pointed out, it would also be consistent with the pricing strategy Apple has been employing of late--combine and cut.

...that and, well lets be honest here...I really REALLY don't want Shake to cost $10K! The more reasons I have to think it won't, the easier my life will be! :D

RonGC
06-22-2006, 02:49 PM
$10k is a fantasy. There is no way that Apple would charge that price. Remember dropping the price of FCP then adding the bundled suite made Apple the defacto standard in Video. The big Broadcast networks use it, the average joe uses it.

Now with the addition of a reduced priced Shake the final gap in FCPstudio is closed. It will be now up to the other compositing software companies to drop their prices just as Avid and others had to or concede the market to Apple.

A very savvy market move, one thing that apple has done for us all is they have forced all the other companies overpriced editing software down to a realistic price point. The consumer wins whether you use a Mac or Wintel.

I really look forward to just what Apple comes up with in the New Shake, it is sure to impress and push new frontiers, If i were the competition i'd be Shakin in my Boots. LOL

Ron

gatz
06-23-2006, 05:48 AM
Perhaps, (and I'm just making this up to see if it hits a rumor site) Apple is finally going to offer up the Pixar family jewels and fold them into a FCP/ Shake/RenderMan suite to end all suites.

Would you buy that for $10K??

rg

RonGC
06-23-2006, 11:37 AM
The way that Apple has been marketing they would probably throw Renderman in for free, a few hundred bucks at most LOL

You have to look at it like this, Apple is a computer as well as a software maker, what better way to get companies to move to the MacTel boxes than to come out with an Uber package for a great price. i bet with the price reduction in Shake that they sold more Shake seats in the last week than they did the last 2-3 years.

Almost everyone i know is ponying up for a seat and the others are seriously thinking about it. For that price you would be crazy not to.:)

Ron

loki74
06-23-2006, 04:12 PM
Perhaps, (and I'm just making this up to see if it hits a rumor site) Apple is finally going to offer up the Pixar family jewels and fold them into a FCP/ Shake/RenderMan suite to end all suites.

Would you buy that for $10K??

rg

LOL, I dunno... RenderMan, that would be sweet.

But if I had $10K, I would probably spend 1K on Maxwell and the rest on a renderfarm... or maybe a nice HD camera. (Panny HVX200, anyone?) :D

Martin Adams
06-23-2006, 05:07 PM
This is from Highend3d.com


C. Additionally, Maintenance customers may choose to license the Shake 4.1
Source Code for $50,000. The Source Code license includes a 5,000 seat
volume license of Shake 4.1.

How about we get 5,000 people to put $10 in and we would each get a seat of that volume licence :D