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kdennis
06-19-2006, 02:13 PM
Ok this might be long because I don't want to go back and forth any more than I need to.
In the near future I am going to be switching a show live, this show will have multible cameras (at least 3) and animated keyed graphics ala lower thirds.

The trick is there are alot of lower 3rds, 25-30, and they are all animated with moving backgrounds and logos. I need to beable to transition (disolve) on que from one lower third to another without lossing my camera. Then when need be switch my camera without loseing my lower 3rd.

Can this be done?

ok that wasn't too long hope it makes sence
Any Ideas???

Cineman
06-20-2006, 12:33 PM
Can this be done?
Surely you wouldn't quibble about using your exact methodology, if the exact results that you describe needing could appear on the video output? If so, then sure, the look of what you describe can be done in live switch with the VT.

Nes Gurley

kdennis
06-20-2006, 03:27 PM
How?

Cineman
06-20-2006, 07:00 PM
I need to beable to transition (disolve) on que from one lower third to another without lossing my camera.
Copy your lower thirds into two DDRs. Patch one DDR to DSK, and put other in Preview.
Use Up/Down arrow keys to step. K to play.
Camera in Main.
Load vertical split screen into switcher bin, and select it.
Pull T-bar to match exact top of lower third background, and use "Alt + g" to set user keyboard shortcut to the User T-Bar Position.
Use "f" to fade in and between the lower thirds.


Then when need be switch my camera without loseing my lower 3rd..
Using the Function Key equal to the camera number desired will do what you ask, and be the easiest for this switch.

Nes Gurley

kdennis
06-20-2006, 08:13 PM
Sounds a little confusing but...
I'll try it in the morning - Thanks

jsanfilippo
06-20-2006, 09:44 PM
Nes - I know that you certainly know your VT stuff... but why such a seeminly complicated method?

Would it not work to load all animated lower 1/3's into ONE ddr, set them to loop (or not loop - just make each one to be really long - longer than you'll need, to be safe), and put dissolves between each one? Set the DDR into the DSK.

When you wanna go to the next lower third, double click the dissolve.

Switch you cameras as you normally would.

I do this with static lower 1/3s all the time. Wouldn't it work for animated ones too?

Cineman
06-21-2006, 08:34 AM
Nes - I know that you certainly know your VT stuff... but why such a seeminly complicated method?
Thanks for posting Jamie, as it gives me the opportunity to tell you,
kd, and all that I am not recommending. What I posted is simply the
only method that I know, that would meet his criteria.


Would it not work to load all animated lower 1/3's
into ONE ddr, set them to loop (or not loop - just make each one to be
really long - longer than you'll need, to be safe), and put dissolves
between each one? Set the DDR into the DSK.
Loop would not work in this case, but the big problem is that the clips
would have to be constructed to run for the exact time that the keys
would be up. That is never predictive in a live switch, and would not
meet his criteria.


When you wanna go to the next lower third, double click the dissolve.
You probably already know that I/we don't believe that we have the time
or enough hands to use the mouse pointer? But I often do exactly what
you go on to describe using the "k" key.


I do this with static lower 1/3s all the time. Wouldn't it work for animated ones too?
I do that as well, and would be quicker to recommend that as a method
to transition static lower thirds. I make the first still to be the
dissolve length plus one frame, so that it will transition exactly on
cue. I generally make all the rest, somewhat dependent on the
operator, have a duration of twice the dissolve length plus half a
second. There is a little slop, but not enough to not work, even for
song lyrics. You can set up a rhythm, and delay the "k" to stop click
to have the dissolve come more quickly after the next key press.

The thing is that such will not work with animated backgrounds. In
that case the dissolve must be accomplished through a switcher function.

Nes Gurley

Bobt
06-21-2006, 12:14 PM
OK here is a dumb question.
Do you do this all the time? As in is this a big need?

Bob

nevmoor
06-21-2006, 01:23 PM
Bob, I think I know where you are going. Can your plug in make stuff like this easy???

Cineman
06-21-2006, 01:42 PM
Not as 3rd Channel currently stands. If it would, I would have been all over that as an option.

There is a logical next step "want" that kd may likely require, where Bobs 3rd Channel could play a significant role. kd may not have thought of it yet, or just considered it such a natural extension of what he was asking, that he just didn't include it in his post.

Nes Gurley

kdennis
06-21-2006, 03:45 PM
I'm glad this opened up some discussion.

Couple of things:
First off - we dont do this all the time, but we'd like to. Basiclly we've always worked around it. last show we used 3 switchers. one was just A/B'ing the graphics the other was swicthing the cameras and the third was combinding the other two using a chromakey. ugh! what a mess but it worked...

Secondly - my "lower3rds" are not true lower thirds there is actually a sidebar covering about 1/3 of the left side and then your basic lower third banner across the bottom. SO a topdown wipe is not going to work.
I really need to use an alpha channel in the dsk for this to work the way i need it to. (see Attached)

Keep the posts coming - and thanks to all who are trying to help

Kevin

Jim_C
06-21-2006, 04:23 PM
I really need to use an alpha channel in the dsk for this to work the way i need it to. (see Attached)


Go here:
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42431
And download the Edit Properties for DDR skin.
(Note the simple change needed on the toasterscript)>
This will add a Edit Properties button to the DDR. Clicking it will do the same thing as hitting F8 on a clip in VT-Edit. Then you will have access to the Overlay function of the clip, to toggle on and off.

Bobt
06-21-2006, 06:49 PM
Hi,
I was day dreaming a bit. I was not thinking about 3rdChannel.
Its about done and I wont be adding new features at this late date.

In my mind was a new add on that can load multple RTV's with Alpha and/or PNG clips send them into the DSK with alpha.

You can load the see icons in the list and filenames.
You can save this arrangement and recall it.
You can then play this list into the DSK cross fading tween items in the list.

Thats what I had in my head. But it may not be worth while if there is a solution thats good enough already.

Bob

Cineman
06-21-2006, 08:38 PM
my "lower3rds" are not true lower thirds there is actually a sidebar covering about 1/3 of the left side and then your basic lower third banner across the bottom.
Oh my gosh Kevin, I wish you had said this yesterday, instead of that you would try it today. Sounds great. We have recently been doing this at the church with static backgrounds. For doing that you would need DVE 1421 running "Reverse".


SO a topdown wipe is not going to work.
Well top down really won't work for either. They should both be bottom up. That is why 1421 needs to be used with Reverse selected.

That should do it for you.

Nes Gurley

P.S. Whoops! I replied from the E-alert, and hadn't seen your Thumbnail. That is nothing like I was thinking about. No, that wouldn't work. I do think that you would have a much better looking overlay if you went on and carried your across banner to the bottom of the screen. Then it could work with my proposal.