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lesterfoster
06-09-2006, 06:57 AM
What do you use your Toaster for.?

I am bidding on a new job with my Toaster. But my protenchal client wants to know who is using the Video Toaster and for what. When he asked me this question, my anser was Babylon 5 and SeaQuest. As far as I know. there are no other big name TV programs that were made with the toaster.

As far as who is using the Toaster, I know that anser. Everyone here, But my question is, what are you using your toaster for.?

I have seen a Project List for what movies and tv shows where LightWAVE was used. Is there a list like this for what the VideoTOSTER was used on?. If not, I think that it would help all of us to get work if there was a project list like there is for LightWAVE.

Thanks.

billmi
06-09-2006, 07:27 AM
As far as I know, the Video Toaster's role in B5 and SeaQuest was just as a framebuffer for rendering Lightwave. Regardless, both of those shows pre-date the release of the VT, they were during the era of the Video Toaster, a product that ran on Amiga computers. The Video Toaster was a video switching and effects system, which included Lightwave with it. While it could be used as part of an editing suite, it wasn't capable of editing in and of itself.

As for what I use my Video Toaster for - I don't anymore - I finally sold it a year ago, when upgrading the computer I run my VT[4] in.

With the VT[4] I edit a webcast TV show that sees some 300 to 800 viewers a day (depends largely on how close the particular day is to the release of a fresh episode,) and work on various short projects, most of which use DVD as the delivery medium. The VT[4] offers realtime uncompressed nonlinear editing, DVD authoring, 3D animation, video paint, and live switching, all in one suite.

As for the client - you may find it easier to show the client what you have done with your hardware - at least for me, that's usually what makes the difference, as most folks I've worked with aren't worried about what I use to get the job done, they're worried about what kind of work they will get from me.

Jim Capillo
06-09-2006, 09:06 AM
While I was also a Toaster user, I don't use mine anymore, either. If you don't directly understand what Bill was telling you, the VT is no longer known as Toaster. The "Video Toaster" was the Amiga host version, the "VT" (soon to incorporate SpeedEdit) is the PC based version. Many loathe the name Toaster ~ I am already telling people I edit with SpeedEdit, even though I don't have it yet. It justs sounds so much more professional.

Anyhoo, to get to your real question, we use the VT here to edit :30 second commercials, short and long form corporate projects, instructional video, sporting events, the rare live event and other than that, pretty much anything (except weddings) that comes thru the door.

novidiot
06-09-2006, 12:03 PM
with tricaster out and speed edit as a stand alone nle doesn't this present a future without the vt we know today? Sorta of liked dumped

nv

robewil
06-09-2006, 12:15 PM
with tricaster out and speed edit as a stand alone nle doesn't this present a future without the vt we know today? Sorta of liked dumped

nvTricaster and Speed-Edit are responses by Newtek to customers who didn't want a "full blown" production system. Those who need/want the full 24/8 input switcher bundled with Lightwave and Aura are still going to want the VT.

Jim Capillo
06-09-2006, 12:15 PM
I think there will always be a place for a full suite VT. I pretty much use all the apps as well as the SX-84 (I have all my machines feeding the inputs). A Tricaster wouldn't work for me ~ I need more than three inputs.... and while the standalone SE will help me in certain instances, it won't take the place of the full blown VT.

I'm happy to see more diversity and growth in Newtek's product line.

ScorpioProd
06-09-2006, 01:01 PM
Diversity in a product line is a very good thing.

Remember, TriCaster has nothing as good as SpeedEDIT in it. The NLE part is much more limited and simple.

I don't see VT in the future as having as much of a flagship role as it used to. But I don't see TriCaster and SpeedEDIT canabalizing VT sales as much as providing sales to people that in no way could justify a VT price tag.

For the future, I see VT exclusively for people who need the more then three live inputs, and that is what it is best at. As for other parts of the suite that come with VT, I would recommend that people get Mirage over using Aura, remember, Aura ceased development many years ago, Mirage is much better. And LW can be obtained CHEAP with the 3D Arsenal product.

Cause really, if you bought yourself SpeedEDIT, you could easily add Mirage and LW for MUCH less than the price of a VT system.

tfrank
06-09-2006, 01:57 PM
What do we use our VT for? Anything & everything...from TV spots to finished programs. Even found a way to MAKE money producing political debates!

Cineman
06-09-2006, 03:45 PM
I pretty much use all the apps as well as the SX-84 (I have all my machines feeding the inputs).
For that use Jim, you could replace the SX-84 with an ultra cheap routing switcher.


A Tricaster wouldn't work for me ~ I need more than three inputs....
The TriCaster has more than three inputs Jim. It just has three active inputs all at one time, which is one more than the software VT[4].

Nes Gurley

Jim Capillo
06-09-2006, 04:18 PM
For that use Jim, you could replace the SX-84 with an ultra cheap routing switcher.

Could've, but didn't.


The TriCaster has more than three inputs Jim. It just has three active inputs all at one time, which is one more than the software VT[4].

Yeah OK.... three composite OR three Y/C. You seem real quick to split hairs with anything and everything I say, Nes. Get a life.

With 8 different format machines here, I reiterate my original statement that the Tricaster wouldn't work for me. You don't like it ? Too bad.

This will be my last direct response to you.

eon5
06-09-2006, 05:56 PM
commercials... a lot

the SDI I/O .rtv quality is superb !


VT is my wingman in any postproduction... capturing digibeta or dv, matching audio, conforming 3D anims pics sequences, makings dvd to clients, using combustion, fusion or aeffects framebuffer, ccorrect/resize in realtime & printing the result to tape, rendering sorenson3 quicktimes to stream, working in PAL/NTSC at snap, ... etcetc

no crash... no BSOD...

joseburgos
06-09-2006, 09:07 PM
VT Edit used for:
Editing animations
Editing Motion graphics
Documentary (totaly digital, video and images sent to me via hard drive).
Sometimes as a Compositing program
Training Video
Editing Video
Editing Video with a Stream output for remote edit bay editing.

Again basicly only VT Edit with a little Aura for that list.
LW is another story :)

Take care,
Jose Burgos

lesterfoster
06-10-2006, 11:59 AM
Thanks for all your replies. These comments are quite interesting. I did not expect some of the replies. I re-read my question as some how I don't think that I got my point across. You have all told me what you are using VT fore, but not what you have made with it.

My protenchal client wants to know who is using the VT and for what. What he wants to know is, what tv shows, sporting events, commercials, music videos, exc., are made with the VT.

What I am looking for is a project list of TV shows, sporting events, commercials, movies, music videos, especially live event switching that the VT was used in the production of. A list of productions like what is available for LW. Is there a list like this for the VT?

I told my protenchal client that he has seen work that was made with LW & VT on the television all the time. He wants to know what those programs are.

I use my VT to produce Pro Wrestling shows, I have been shooting Pro Wrestling for over 25 years now. But for the past 7 years now, I have been making videos rather than shooting wrestling with a still camera. I enjoy making videos much more than just shooting stills.
www.pwawrestling.ca (http://www.pwawrestling.ca)

Ken Kupsch, is who my protenchal client is. www.kingofthecage.ca (http://www.kingofthecage.ca) He is the promoter for King of the Cage in Alberta. A mixed martial arts contact sporting event. During my last show taping PWA, I had rented a projector and set it up for the audience to watch the live taping. Ken has been attending the PWA shows for quite some time now. He has been watching me for quite some time now, but has never come over to see what I was doing before. But this time, as he could see what was being recorded, thanks to the projector. He came over to see what I was doing, He took interest in my setup and wanted to know what the name of my switcher was. Than I gave him a quick demo of what the VT could do & how it works.

Ken has had his events shown on TSN. He is always looking for better ways to produce his show. But he is not that much in to the tek stuff. He is more into the final result. I have given him a DVD of one of the best shows that I did for PWA and a V-CD of my best productions. As my cameras are all consumer grade. The output from my VT is not as good as it could be, if I had ProCams.

Ken is looking at a different person who has 3 ProCams to record his next show for him. But this other person does not have a switcher, he is looking at renting a switcher to do the job. What I am trying to do is convince Ken and the other video guy to higher me with my live switcher [VT] to help with the show.

This is why I am looking for a list of what other productions have been made with the VT, I have given him the Project List that is available for LW. But I cant find a list like this for the VT. Is there a project list like there is for LW available?. If not, than I think we should start one.

And if you have any advice or tips on how I can get this live switching job, please pass them on

Thanks

Jim Capillo
06-10-2006, 01:02 PM
Your client is welcome to go to my website and view the commercials and corporate work I have done. It has all been produced with the VT.

Most folks probably won't have the time to put together a list of all the specific things they have done with the VT. I don't post everything I do to the web, I just change things up as I get time and if a client has a special request to post it there.

Cineman
06-10-2006, 01:33 PM
I re-read my question as some how I don't think that I got my point across. You have all told me what you are using VT fore, but not what you have made with it.
Yes, and my apologies for getting distracted and becoming a part of that.


My protenchal client wants to know who is using the VT and for what. What he wants to know is, what tv shows, sporting events, commercials, music videos, exc., are made with the VT.

What I am looking for is a project list of TV shows, sporting events, commercials, movies, music videos, especially live event switching that the VT was used in the production of.
I think that perhaps you are aiming too high here Lestor (not Acorn, I assume). While VT might be capable of switching a network program, I expect that it is not. It is being used by stations, including cable and broadcast.

Here is a story about my work with photos which he can read and see photos that indicate the type of production. It should provide him some feeling for use of projection screens and the bands are similar to entertainment TV.

http://www.newtek.com/vt/profiles/TrinityUMC/index.php

Also let me direct you to the host for the Trinity UMC Profile. Check out the others. You will find broadcast at several levels there. I think Paul Goldberg who is profiled has done wrestling for Fox Sports and has another show that is carried by Fox Sports.

http://www.newtek.com/vt/profiles/

And if you want a much bigger laundry list of where the VT is being used, send him to this:

http://www.newtek.com/vt/keyaccounts.php

I think that from these your client should get a pretty good idea of how perverse the VT is in the video production business. And I will have now replied your post to the nature of your request.

Nes Gurley

Pete Draves
06-10-2006, 01:47 PM
All of the woods wise dvd's and re edits

several years of 10 point archery dvd's

double bull archery

some of the footage for discovery chan largest machines

art tapes to dvd for crystal productions.

etc etc etc

Pete

Paul Lara
06-10-2006, 04:53 PM
What I am looking for is a project list of TV shows, sporting events, commercials, movies, music videos, especially live event switching that the VT was used in the production of. A list of productions like what is available for LW. Is there a list like this for the VT?

Is there a project list like there is for LW available?. If not, than I think we should start one.

Well, while it doesn't point out specific programs, there IS a list of key accounts using VT (http://www.newtek.com/vt/keyaccounts.php).

jcupp
06-10-2006, 11:13 PM
I suspect there are not many national commercials edited with a VT, but probably thousands of local spots. I have, as customers, several network affiliates that cut commercials and/or switch local programming using the VT including WTHI in Terre Haute, IN (CBS) and WBQC in Cincinnati, OH (UPN) along with more than a dozen cable companies, scores of government channels / cable access (sold a dozen VTs to Chicago cable access) and more low power or cable-only commercial and non-profit stations than I can count.

We have systems at Wright Patterson AFB, Adler Planeterium in Chicago, James Cancer Center at Ohio State, Illinois EPA, Indiana Cooperative Library Services Authority (INCOLSA), several Indiana University campuses, Owensboro Community College in KY and so many high schools and churches it would make your head spin.

I have a customer in CA that produces content for the NFL and for several NFL teams for use on jumbotrons. The Pro Bull Riders (PBR) uses one of our VT systems for big screen playback during their events. I have a couple of guys that produce regional dirt track racing programs and other customers that produce regional home improvement, golf and other sports programming.

I personally have produced training videos for the Navy, General Electric and Indiana University, several demo videos for a local defense contractor and a Jiffy Treet commercial - mmm free ice cream:)

VTs are everywhere, but since most of this programing is local or internal it's probably not going to sound all that impressive to someone in a different part of the country. You would probably do better stressing what you can do rather than what your equipment has done in someone else's hands.

bbeanan
06-10-2006, 11:35 PM
How I use my VT4...

1) Editing commercials
2) Production of content for various LED Signs here in Vegas
3) Video Production (Events and such, President Bush, Vice President Cheney, Dance Concerts, so on and on)
4) Nightclubs (with the Great VJ Live skins by Jeff)
5) Killer Home Videos...
6) Promo Stuff

Zane Condren
06-11-2006, 07:56 AM
Also, KNBC in LA uses a VT4.

Gary Robinson
06-11-2006, 04:29 PM
I've edited thousands of promos for Blind Date, Married With Children, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Judge Hatchett and others, and while I didn't edit them on VT, I can honestly say that I would have been able to edit them faster and more efficiently on the VT. Frankly, I think VT only really became ready for high volume national broadcast work at version 4 because of the EDL I/O. I think we'll be seeing more and more "name" work created on VT/SpeedEdit as SpeedEdit is released, and broadcasters realize there is a good, and sometimes better alternative to cutting their shows on Avid or FC Pro. I don't think the selling point of VT 4.6 is what it has done at a national level, but what it can and will do for you.

Harvey D
06-12-2006, 08:24 AM
Up here in Canada I have used the VT4 for many National commercials and 60-minute TV specials, which were broadcast on national TV Networks.
Working on my next project in HD, hoping to edit it on VT5.
I’ve edited on almost all NEL systems out their nothing comes close to VT4.


Harvey Popowich

Harvey D
06-12-2006, 08:52 AM
Just a footnote:
My edit Suite is out in the backcountry of northern Alberta on an acreage.
Its in a straw bale building which is great for up here as it can get very cold. Heating cost are nil as the equipment keeps the place warm, a wind generator and solar panels supply’s some of my electricity.
Clients love to drive out here to do their post work, as the deer and coyotes keep them entertained while I edit. The last 2 Years the suite has been going 24hrs a days. Location location location

Thanks to the Video Toaster, living and working out here makes for a great life style.

Harvey Popowich

tfrank
06-12-2006, 10:26 AM
Having produced, shot, directed, and posted a series of Wrestling shows many years ago that aired in the Northwest part of the U.S., I am sure that the VT system could handle your needs. Obviously your client wants an example, preferably one showing his sport. May I suggest that you do a "freebie"? If you are interested in a long term partnership with him, offer to do a show for free or for cost. Heck, even a practice session might work. Cameras will be crucial. The video coming out of VT is only as good as what is going in. Borrow or rent, but get the best cameras that you can find.

Jim_C
06-12-2006, 11:31 AM
Most TV shows are cut and dissolves. All NLE's do that. Windows Movie Maker with High Def wmv images can produce a Hi-Def TV show now a days.

Speaking of extra graphics and eye candy added on is a different story.

IMO, for him to ask,What TV shows have used the Toaster is a moot point. Really doesn't matter if they were made on a Gazillion dollar Avid or $99 FCP DV Express. The end result is footage with cuts and dissolves in it. An opening title some graphics, bumps, credits. Just about all computer based NLEs do that.

When new clients start asking me what equipment I use, I honestly try everything I can to not name brand names. I tell them I use whatever is neccessary to do the job. I have several types of editing, compositing, titiling, 3d, and audio programs and I will use whichever is needed to complete the job on budget, on time and on spot. If they insist, I rattle off the list of programs then make sure they get an appropriate demo real to wet the whistle.

I have never heard of a new home owner asking the construction crew what type of hammer and nails they use.

When he asks "What does the VT do for TV shows?" tell him, "Dunno.. doesn't matter, BUT let me show you what I CAN DO with THIS VT for YOU!"

:D

Jim

deandec
06-13-2006, 01:13 PM
I didn't realize that when referring to a "Toaster" one is actually talking about the Amiga version. I guess I should answer VT when asked what I edit on. The Toaster answer gets me many strange looks as almost everyone here in NYC either uses Avid or Final Cut. Even answering Premiere would yield an odd glance. Personally, VT has been invaluble in use as a framebuffer with Combustion and for i/o of uncompressed SDI footage usually from digibeta. It works great except that it is drop frame only and every edl we get from outside is non-drop so that creates some problems. Our work is mostly commercials, promos and TV shows such as Sesame Street.

tonyvdb
06-13-2006, 03:50 PM
I didn't realize that when referring to a "Toaster" one is actually talking about the Amiga version.

The Video Toaster as said above was Newteks first run at making live video switching a reality to many small Production studios and small TV stations in North america.
When it first came out in aproxomatly 1992 It ran on the Amiga 2000 and was capable of switching between 4 live video inputs that had to be all synced through an external TBC (one for each channel) costing around $1000 each The switcher had arond 200 possible transition (wipes) that a person could use and had a great text generator and paint program built in. The cost was still resonable compaired to the $100,000 that was needed to be spent on comparable stand alone switchers of that time. Even to this day the Videotoaster is very capable of doing a better job or comparable because of the fact that most PC software programs require rendering of the video clip befor playing it back where as the Amiga is real time and requires no rendering unless you want Lightwave 3D animations then that must be rendered befor hand and placed as a clip in the sequence.
In 1994 Newtek released the second virsion called the Toaster 4000 and soon after a "Flyer" add on card. The 4000 supported the newer AGA graphic chips of the Amiga 4000 alowing for colour transitions to be used. The Flyer board was probably the best thing Newtek ever did at the time giving full Non-Lyner editing capabilities to the Amigas Video Toaster. The Flyer had 3 seperat SCSI-2 controllers two were dedicated for Video and Audio and the third was for audio only. I personaly have 3 SCSI cheetah drives on each of the two video chains and one on the audio amounting to over 100gig of drive space. Plenty of space for over 5hrs of video in D2 quality.
Lightwave was also included with the Toaster 4000 and rendering annimations to the Flyer became a dream come true for lots of budding 3D studieos. Paramount studios used it for shows like Startrek Generations, deep space 9, Voiager and then there was Babalon5 just to name a fue.
At the time there was almost nothing that you couldent do with the Toaster Flyer system that you could do with systems costing tens of thousands more so Newtek sold Thousands of the Amiga Toaster 4000/Flyer systems to TV stations all over the US and Canada. Unfortunatly Commodore went bankrupt shortly after and thus ended the Amiga line as we know it but there are still many like myself who still have and use it as it works so very well.
I use my system to edit wedding videos and lots of other small promotional videos for buisnesses here and have done some live switching with it at times also. It works great for the family videos as well :D

robewil
06-13-2006, 05:34 PM
The first 2 editions of the PC based "Studio in a Box" were called "Video Toaster" as well, specifically Video Toaster NT and then, Video Toaster[2]. Newtek officially dropped the "Toaster" name with the announcement of VT[3].

steveg
06-15-2006, 01:23 PM
I produce a cooking show for PBS every week, two Hunting & fishing show each month, 50 Automobile IInfomercials each year, various projects for a national burger chain each month, lots of TV spots including a national India Clothing Chain, the Government of Seville,Spain, & Israel, Sisters Cities International, projects for the United nations, projects for World EXPO's, Sprint, AT&T, Verizon, and a whole list of other clients. All of these with my little VT4, soon to be VT5. Sure I could buy a whole lot of little gadgets to do each job individually, but why? when my video toaster (VT$) can do all of the jobs, live switching, editing, virtual recorders, CG, animation, and all in real time. Why would you need to buy anything else. Did you say you have a toaster? You should know all of this.

Day-Vids
06-17-2006, 02:27 AM
What does it matter what it has been used for? What paint did picasso use? What is the type of hair in the paint brushes of davinci or michelangelo? The tool is just that, the result is what they should be concerned with, how you get there doesn't matter, as long as the results are to his satisfaction. All that "measuring" that people like to do doesn't matter to me one bit, a tool is a means to an end, and until I can click a button that edits my footage for me and tells a story better than I can etc... that's all it will ever be. A means to an end.

Honestly - I get so tired of "what do you use, oh? Who else uses that?"

IMO - it all sounds like a bit of penis envy to me. but if he wants to employ the longest .... then just download the free version of avid and cut something on it, then tell him that you cut on AVID and then he'll say oooooo AVID, you must be a good editor then, I'm sure the quality will be fine then. Then you can do your work on speed edit or whatever you want.

I know plenty of people that have a machine with FCP or Avid so that when their clients aske they can say a big name to shut them up, but then go to Sony Vegas, PPro, or some other editor that isn't as popular but that they prefer.

Sorry for the rant guys. I'll shut up now :)

steveg
06-19-2006, 11:48 AM
That was a good rant. I used to say the same thing back in the 16mm film days. Nobody wanted to see your creative work, they just wanted to know what brand of camera you were shooting with. They didn't even care if you had good lenses or bad. They just wanted you to shoot with an Arri, or they would find someone else. So. I had an Arriflex that I would set on a tripod, then shoot the job with my Bolex. I never got a complaint after that. Clients will never be as educated as they should be. You would think after 35 years people would have learned.

Jim Capillo
06-19-2006, 08:27 PM
...... I had an Arriflex that I would set on a tripod, then shoot the job with my Bolex. I never got a complaint after that. Clients will never be as educated as they should be. You would think after 35 years people would have learned.

That's funny, Steve. I had a commercial a few years ago that the client insisted be shot in BetaSP. Problem was, the camera was in the shop for new heads and wouldn't be available until some 5 days after the scheduled shoot. I thought about renting, but instead dragged out the old M-II camera, put it in the Beta's Portabrace camera case and shot it using that. The client never knew the difference, he even commented on how "clean" the picture looked. Just goes to show that "brand snobiness" is something that has to be dealt with by most everyone at some point.

bbeanan
06-19-2006, 10:02 PM
I must agree I even once was called to do an edit job in the AVID Edit bay of another house. We were both working on almost identical footage (2 different presenters that needed their power point sildes overlayed and CG titles needed to be assembled and output to DVD for a meeting the next morning, 3 camera angles, and about 45 min long.)
Well when I showed up the AVID guy was already under way... I still had to bring my system into the room and set it up.

Long story short I finished in about 3 hours (including burning the DVD) packed my system up and when I went back in the AVID guy said he still had another 20 min. or so to go on the edit (he still had to burn the DVD too). Later I heard they were there another hour and a half and in the end the person working with that editor said she had to simplify what she wanted so that they could get out of there before sunrise.

steveg
06-20-2006, 11:09 PM
I have a friend who had to have a photo to music transfer job with trajectory moves on every picture done. It was about 400 pictures. He said his friend's final cut pro editor would be the best way to do it. I told him that if he got into a bind I would help him out on my toaster. This was 10:00 in the morning. I got a call at 3:00 am the next morning, where he said he was desperate and would try anything. I told him to bring his pix over and I will see what I could do. About 2 hours later we were burning his DVD. He called his friends editor "final cut slow". By the way he said the uncrashable Mac computer only crashed 25 times in the 18 hours they edited his photos to video. They had only gotten 6 trajectory moves done. Thanks to the vt4 toolbox his show was a hit. He is now waiting for Speed Edit to come out for the editor he is now waiting to buy.