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mav3rick
06-08-2006, 06:19 AM
Now this is somethin newtek should consider to retire hv3
seriously.... if it take out hv3 speed by 30% it already is worth .. why? i dont see any hv3 like balls in flame anims there.... check for yourself

http://www.cantarcan.com/v11/html/main.html

KillMe
06-08-2006, 06:32 AM
that guy probally doesn't want to sell dynamite to newtek

androidmaker
06-08-2006, 06:36 AM
now i could be wrong but isnt dynamite just a lightwave plugin?

KillMe
06-08-2006, 06:43 AM
thinks he is advocating dumping hypervoxels and having this instead - and yes this is a lw plugin **** sweet the pro version though- but as i said probally has no intension of selling it to anyone other than the end users

gjjackson
06-08-2006, 06:47 AM
Since it's about 250US I doubt he'll want to sell it to NT. Given the new price for LW the cost for a couple of addt'l still makes LW a bargain.

mav3rick
06-08-2006, 06:54 AM
i am sure he will not sell to NT but lite is usable and can replace hv3 volumetric mode if quality and speed outperform it .. lite is limited only cause it uses particles and pro has instancing.... and yes it is lw only .... he has no plans to do it for any other platform.. i hope we get somethin like 3dsmax afterburn. i have no probs with 190 eur price if it makes me money

Meaty
06-08-2006, 07:58 AM
wow, that is very cool lookin!

looks quite promising

Lorigosolo
06-08-2006, 08:02 AM
WOW!! Thats is sweet!! Awesome Plugin and it seems to be better than the HV3, i hope that in LW9 we have a improved HV!!

:lightwave

mattclary
06-08-2006, 08:40 AM
Maybe if we beg NewTek enough, they can use it as the incentive for the upgrade to 10! :thumbsup: Cheaper than Vue.

Hipcheck
06-08-2006, 09:01 AM
heh heh... i'm still laffing at $495 for xstream

BazC
06-08-2006, 10:27 AM
That looks fantastic! :)

Mac version coming! :D

krimpr
06-08-2006, 10:53 AM
heh heh... i'm still laffing at $495 for xstream

Agreed Xstream's not inexpensive, but it's potential usefulness shouldn't be underestimated in some circles. If it saves some arch-viz guy two or three days setting up an environment for a customer (for example) the app could potentially save his bacon after only one or two projects easily covering it's cost.:thumbsup:

As for the latest iteration of Dynamite... Holy Cow!
(no offense intended for those who don't believe in cows.)

loki74
06-08-2006, 12:44 PM
WOW--he now has a lagrangian (voxel-grid based) implementation of a fluid dynamics solver! for 200 bucks? That can do gasses and flames it looks like--liquids are only a step away. I wouldnt be surprised if that's whats coming next.

I want to know the calc times on those things.

as far as getting rid of HVs--I would still like to have as many options available as possible. Why not keep them around? And to be honest, the lagrangian grid based system and the eulerian particle based system are like oranges and apples--if I wanted to simulate a bunch of peas being poured onto a plate--HV's would be ideal. If I want dust or smoke--the lagrangian approach is preferable. As I understand it, the lagrangian implementation is there for situations where tracking each particle is prohibitively expensive (ie, tracking each particle of dust or smoke). However, the eulerian simulation is probably faster, beacuse there is no way for a simulation to "blow up" as a result of a volume propogating more than one grid cell. (There is a way to overcome this in a lagrangian implementation, but the method is patented so I dont think he uses it here.)

The point is--this is great. But it has its purpose (infintesmally small particles that are better tracked as volumes in grid cells) and HVs have their purpose (large particles that the computer can accurately track individually).

and I can't help but stress again the insane value of this thing--200 bucks for the voxel engine and fluid solver?? w00t!

mav3rick
06-08-2006, 12:53 PM
loki thanks for greater explanation .. this gives more sens to dynamite...

krimpr
06-08-2006, 01:11 PM
WOW--he now has a lagrangian (voxel-grid based) implementation of a fluid dynamics solver! for 200 bucks? That can do gasses and flames it looks like--liquids are only a step away. I wouldnt be surprised if that's whats coming next.

I want to know the calc times on those things.

as far as getting rid of HVs--I would still like to have as many options available as possible. Why not keep them around? And to be honest, the lagrangian grid based system and the eulerian particle based system are like oranges and apples--if I wanted to simulate a bunch of peas being poured onto a plate--HV's would be ideal. If I want dust or smoke--the lagrangian approach is preferable. As I understand it, the lagrangian implementation is there for situations where tracking each particle is prohibitively expensive (ie, tracking each particle of dust or smoke). However, the eulerian simulation is probably faster, beacuse there is no way for a simulation to "blow up" as a result of a volume propogating more than one grid cell. (There is a way to overcome this in a lagrangian implementation, but the method is patented so I dont think he uses it here.)

The point is--this is great. But it has its purpose (infintesmally small particles that are better tracked as volumes in grid cells) and HVs have their purpose (large particles that the computer can accurately track individually).

and I can't help but stress again the insane value of this thing--200 bucks for the voxel engine and fluid solver?? w00t!

Yeah. Whatever it was that he said.:stumped:

Yog
06-08-2006, 01:37 PM
Very impressive !!
I can seriously see myself buying this, and I haven't bought a plug-in for LW in a long time.

As for having Newtek buying it and integrating it into Lightwave, I would much rather they didn't.
Sure, people on a tight buget might prefer that every useful plug-in ever developed be included with every release of LW for no more than the standard few hundred dollar upgrade fee, but rather than Newtek having to increase their upgrade fee to pay for all that, I personally would like to see them concentrate on refining the core and leave it to the users to buy the add-ons that they need.
Example, I'm not a character animator, so I would be less than chuffed if I had to pay a lot more for the next upgrade because Newtek decided they were going to purchase Messiah to include in LW-10.

Verlon
06-08-2006, 06:07 PM
LWCad was $199....I think this would make a wonderful part of the 9.000001 (or even RC3) update. :)

Yog
06-09-2006, 10:18 AM
LWCad was $199....I think this would make a wonderful part of the 9.000001 (or even RC3) update. :)Ah, but how much would the LW9.0 upgrade have cost if Newtek hadn't needed to buy then include these pre-order bribes ?

Moral of the story, nothing in life is free, you pay for everything one way or the other.

mav3rick
06-09-2006, 10:21 AM
i have no problem with price of lw ... newtek gave us so much for so little i always feel like i steal
now it is vue and lwcad and lot more changes than any version b4 for so little money...
i feel like noone is satisfy but than again i make real money out of lw so i never look on price as problem and i would probable pay 30% more without problem cause they give so much for the money.
some arhitectural guys say they would not be interested in dynamite bundle with lw and what i can say i dont need that much of lwcad but hey i dont think it is right thinking.. i love to have all tools awaylable so eaven if i use volumetrics stuff more often than lw cad kinda tools i feel i will make money of lwcad sooner or later just like dynamite... so i vote for any boundles and later if you like it pay upgrade to dynamite guy and continue use it......
just like if u like vue pay next version upgrade and voild .. the point is you got FULL version with lw bundle and than u pay only upgrades that never cost same as full version...

i like newtek marketing!!! roocccckkkk onnnn

JML
06-09-2006, 11:44 AM
of course, I would prefer for it to come free with lightwave,

but 195$ for that is a good price I think..

gjjackson
06-09-2006, 01:55 PM
of course, I would prefer for it to come free with lightwave,

but 195$ for that is a good price I think..

That's 195 Euros not $.

toby
06-09-2006, 05:37 PM
It's a cool plugin, we talked about it a few months ago, but it doesn't have surface or sprite HV, only the volume, which almost no one has time to render animations with. My company has an 800 cpu farm and we still use sprite HV. So it's a little more limited than LW's HV, not quite a replacement. Maybe someday.

toby
06-09-2006, 05:53 PM
I just saw the update to 1.1 - sweet!! LW HV can't do that!

JML
06-09-2006, 07:03 PM
I just tried the lite version... ouah, impressed.. especially for free !
anybody tried the lite version with lwsn ?

js33
06-09-2006, 08:17 PM
1.1 will bring Maya type fluid effects. Sweet. I will get this one.

jevinstudios
06-10-2006, 07:55 PM
pretty fukkin cool, i say....

faulknermano
06-11-2006, 12:43 AM
1.1 will bring Maya type fluid effects. Sweet. I will get this one.


thats right! and without Maya's overcomplicated interfacing. hopefully. <cross fingers>

Bog
06-11-2006, 07:55 AM
I've had a long and hard think about the 3rd Party Plugin Thing - especially with "Must-Have" plugins like, erm, everything in Worley's inventory.

The more I think about it, the more sensible and egaletarian it seems. LightWave users don't *all* pay for something they may not need (dynamic hair, rapid radiosity, Really Nice Fire), NewTek don't have to spend all their time learning the guts of and then supporting every new cool technology which happens along, and can focus on updating and refining the gizzards of LightWave itself.

In the case of Dynamite, let's face it, HVs will be fine for most people, and HVs (as toby pointed out) have the Sprite and Surface modes, which make them handy for all sorts of other jobs. However, for anyone who's:

1) A VFX artist
2) A hard-core freelancer who needs to cover all his bases
3) A digital pyromaniac

Then Dynamite's going to be a must have. The price point is smaashing - big props to 'em for their release policy.

Speaking in more general terms I've gotten over my misgivings over "necessary" plugins, because they're not. Not everyone needs FPrime - if you're not dealing with heeeyooj scenes or are regularly in need of animated radiosity, it's not necessary. If you don't do a lot of grass or hair, then the full free version of Sasquatch is fine. It's a Sunday so I can't think of many more 3rd party plugins without actually doing any work, which is against my Sunday philosophy, but you get my point.

You get a right shedload of smashing tools in LW as default. But given it's accessable, plug-in based nature, it's possible for suitably talented folk to write Really Very Cool plugins for it - and sell them. It actually creates a free market where there's more than one way to make money out of LightWave - you don't have to always focus on animating, or modelling, or texturing - if you write a cool tool to do something you wanted to do, you can sell it on to many other folk. That's pretty darn cool in my book.

NewTek's not a huge sprawling Code Farm like some of the other 3D App Developers. There aren't thousands of programmers all beavering away under the bare lightbulbs strung from a warehouse roof. So it makes a lot more sense to me for them to be focussing on both LW's core abilities, as well as opening out the API even more so that 3rd party coders can make their plugins even more versatile (REALLY looking forward to hearing something from Worley Labs about the LW9 version of FPrime), and when someone wants to sell a plugin *to* NewTek, and NewTek think "Well actually yeah, that would be very nice to have as Core LW", then they have to spend a major amount of time on integration, and learning what the original coder did to get it working.

ClothFX is the classic example of a "bought" plugin. With 9.0 we got Relativity, which I've always sworn by as a brilliant motion math controller. Also, with a smaller, basically Decent company like NT, you know that they didn't just carve Prem Subramanyam's brain out and stick it in a jar. If that's the case though, then I still need to send a "thank you" to [email protected] .... ;)

Anyway. My point stands that having things like Dynamite as 3rd party tools means that the developer gets to make money out of it, NewTek don't have to worry about it, and if anything's wrong with Dynamite (like the threading issue) or there are more things that people want added (like... erm... like... oh, yeah - multiple cell types, good one!) then a smaller developer will have the agility (hopefully and theoretically) to make those changes and additions quickly, without having any other priorities, like fixing bump-map normals on deformed objects. They can focus, and work their change cycles more thoroughly.

So, having spent the last year worrying about third party plugins and stuff, I've finally realised that it's really the best way of doing business.

Yay.

Phil
06-11-2006, 09:05 AM
Prems in a jar? That explains the unanswered mail over the last year or so :D *runs off*