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DavidL
06-07-2006, 04:50 PM
If anyone uses Speed Edit/VT Edit with After Effects, can you explain your workflow? I would guess that you have to render out clips to be used in AE and then render them again to go back. Although some non-Adobe editors allow copying clips from the NLE and pasting them right into AE. Others have export options where you don't have to render. I'm just wondering about the currernt options.

Thanks,
David

badllarma
06-08-2006, 12:02 AM
On a simlar subject I'd like to know is there a way of using After Effects plugins on the VT edit time line?

tmon
06-08-2006, 12:51 AM
I use After Effects almost every day with VT 4.6c.

If After Effects is installed on the same workstation as VT, you can run NewTek's "Third Party Installer" which will install the RTV plugin, allowing After Effects to utilize RTV files and render to them as well. If you work primarily with the excellent RTV format as I do, this avoids having to render a separate file out of the VT timeline.

Also, with the VT card, you can preview AE to an NTSC monitor via the VT switcher. Very useful indeed, so much so that I am willing to put up with After Effects' horrible handling of memory (e.g. not releasing it upon shutdown).

My workflow is usually just to do a frame grab of video from the VT timeline as a PNG, TGA, or whatever, then use that as a background reference in AE. Sometimes I'll bring in a voiceover .wav file into AE as a timing reference as well. Other times, for short videos, I'll even bring in RTV files into AE. The problem I run into is that AE really seems to be a RAM hog, and even with 2GB of RAM installed, after doing timeline previews and what not in AE, I seem to run into playback stutters if I immediately take AE rendered RTV's back into the VT-Edit timeline, and am 7 times out of 10 forced to reboot. This really blows, IMHO, but it is what it is. I put the onus on Adobe here.

One workaround is using the VT switcher, I'll select AE on the program bus and VT-Edit on the preview bus, and do a 35% dissolve between the two just to frame the AE content, which in my case, is usually a graphics/title overlay.

FYI, I have a very fast dual-opteron workstation that is also accessible for AE work, but because of the RTV plugin and NTSC preview benefits of working with AE on the VT workstation, I am willing to suffer through the reboots.

Unfortunately, no, AE projects and plugins do NOT function directly in the VT-Edit timeline. From the AE environment, I render directly to RTV (usually with Alpha channel for titles and graphics), then just bring that into VT.

Outside of the efforts of Bob Tasa (toastergarage.com/LWConnect), integration between apps, even the ones bundled in the VT Suite (LightWave, 3D, Aura), is not something that has been addressed to the extent that it has in other packages. Hopefully, this will be addressed going forward, but what do I know?

I'd be curious as to whether other people have different workflows or experiences as well.

ted
06-08-2006, 07:57 AM
My GFX guys use AE with .rtv's almost daily also. They only have a dual 1.8 with 1 gig ram and I haven't heard much about the system locking. But we are all aware how memory intensive Adobe products are. :thumbsdow
I'll pass this on to my GFX guys and see what they say.
But yes, AE is a great tool with "Speed Edit".

DavidL
06-08-2006, 08:28 AM
Ted,
Could you please share any info about your GFX guys' workflow between AE and Speed Edit. Any additional knowledge would be great.

Also, can anyone explain the .rtv files? Is that what you can output your Speed Edit timeline as? I work with minidv and use the captured avi's in Premiere Pro but would LOVE to switch to a different NLE. Of course, I realize that there's no better intergration with AE than with Premiere, but I would be willing to give that up if the workflow with a new NLE isn't too much of a hassle with AE.

David

tmon
06-08-2006, 09:36 AM
RTV is NewTek's awesome uncompressed codec which is also Alpha-Channel capable.

You can output the SpeedEdit timeline in RTV, but also in a variety of flavors of AVI, DV, WMV, etc. Basically, you can render to whatever codecs that are installed on your system.

And, it's fast.

DavidL
06-08-2006, 12:28 PM
So Taiji, I would guess you can capture footage from your camera directly to the .rtv format, right?

Also, you said that you can get After Effects to use the .rtv files. If you have ten edited clips on your timeline, how do you get them into AE?

Thanks Again.

chuckd
06-08-2006, 01:25 PM
This is all somewhat speculative David. SpeedEDIT hasn't shipped yet. But currently you either render your sections out and bring them into AE as a single file or you can save your project in an .avi wrapper.

The .avi wrapper frameserves your project to other applications without having to actually render anything out. It's not as good as the interactivity between Premiere and AE but it's pretty cool.

tmon
06-08-2006, 02:05 PM
Chuck is right.

I work in shortform most of the time.

The AVI wrapper would be the way to go if you have longer segments to bring into AE.

Any analog source can be captured in the format of your choice.

joseburgos
06-08-2006, 04:42 PM
Taiji,
What do you do with the VT Frame grab in AE?

Thanks in advance,
Jose Burgos

tmon
06-08-2006, 06:12 PM
Sometimes, I just use the frame grab as a reference to the background video - particularly when I'm working on a workstation that doesn't have VT installed, I'll import the frame into AE and work with it there...

The frame is a reference for the video which the Alpha-channeled titles and graphics are going to play back in the VT-edit timeline....

I'm not sure, but it seems that when I import big-ole RTV files into AE, AE doesn't release RAM, even after I shut it down, thus causing playback stutters when I go back into VT-Edit. So, the frame grab is just an attempt at a workaround. The partial fade on the VT switcher works to this end as well, but again, only if I'm using AE on a VT workstation....

tmon
06-08-2006, 09:31 PM
.

Ahmed
06-10-2006, 05:22 AM
If anyone uses Speed Edit/VT Edit with After Effects, can you explain your workflow? I would guess that you have to render out clips to be used in AE and then render them again to go back. Although some non-Adobe editors allow copying clips from the NLE and pasting them right into AE. Others have export options where you don't have to render. I'm just wondering about the currernt options.

Thanks,
David

Devid,

We use AE all the time with VT Edit.. on the same machine, and sometimes AE on another machine without the VT..
The combination of both, and LW can do wonders with the right man/woman behind.

Rules that we apply..
Any AE Animated Titles are always rendered as RTV with Alpha Channel. We place the title later on the timeline of VTEdit. If this is done on the same machine where the VT card is placed. If on a seprate machine, we render as PNG image sequence with Alpha Channel.
We usually place the video on AE timeline for reference only, we turn off the the video track before we render..
The advantage of this approach, is flexiblity.
The disadvantages is more hard disk space is taken and you get to take one or two steps extra.

But if you have a fast machine and plenty of space, then this approach is good for work flow.
Most of the time the AE artist is not the one who is using VTEdit.

argo23
04-15-2007, 10:43 AM
Why not render your finished AE projects as a tga sequence and then pull the first tga onto the VT4 timeline and the rest of the sequence is built automaticaly. Does anyone do this? Isn't rtv basically a tga sequence anyway?