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CrazyGiraffe
06-05-2006, 05:39 AM
I'm beginning with lightwave, and i'm looking for some good books on the subkect of lightwave. especially when it comes to modeling, rigging, Hyper Voxels, and any other things that will help me get going faster.

Hipcheck
06-05-2006, 11:45 AM
Inside Lightwave series by Dan Ablan.
Best Lightwave book investment I ever made.

Signal to Noise
06-05-2006, 12:19 PM
Yep, get the "Inside" series first. Even books written for older versions of LW will prove useful.

Then consider getting LW Essentials by Timothy Albee.

Once you feel confident for more challenging exercises I recommend:

Cartoon Character Creation Vol. 1 & 2 by Jonny Gorden

LightWave Killer Tips by Ablan et al

LightWave Texturing by Leigh van der Byl

Have fun!

Celshader
06-05-2006, 12:26 PM
I'm beginning with lightwave, and i'm looking for some good books on the subkect of lightwave. especially when it comes to modeling, rigging, Hyper Voxels, and any other things that will help me get going faster.

I keep this book at work:
http://www.wordware.com/tnt/

I co-authored it alongside 40+ other authors, so keep in mind that I could be biased. Flip through it at the bookstore first to see if any of it is of use to you. I like it because it suits my short attention span.

mattclary
06-05-2006, 12:39 PM
Are any books about 9 coming out? Can't even find anything on Amazon about 9....

Signal to Noise
06-05-2006, 12:43 PM
I keep this book at work:
http://www.wordware.com/tnt/


Doh! I meant to include 1001 in my list. Highly recommended reference tome (from an unbiased user ;) )

esper8
06-05-2006, 01:30 PM
Are any books about 9 coming out? Can't even find anything on Amazon about 9....

I believe that our good friend Mr Ablan has one ready to go for when LW9 is finally released

Kurtis
06-05-2006, 07:07 PM
I believe that our good friend Mr Ablan has one ready to go for when LW9 is finally released

In addition, keep an eye on Wordware Publishing, KURV Studios, and Desktop Images.

dablan
06-07-2006, 11:15 PM
Cool - thanks guys.

Yes, Inside LightWave 9 is coming - a few months away yet, but in the works.

Tim's Essentials book is a good one as well. I don't think Desktop Images is getting into publishing books though, but Rex sure is a nice guy! :)

t4d
06-07-2006, 11:20 PM
the best one for character animation and rigging my far is Jonny Gordens
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/155622253X/002-4085693-6628808?v=glance&n=283155

full details, Nice logicly workflow, straight about LW limits and the best tricks to get the bests out of LW.

I say this due to owning all the books listed here except Inside LW 9 of cause ;)

Wickster
06-08-2006, 12:17 AM
In addition to all that. I think there is a LW9 Node Editor specific book coming by Marvin Miller. The new node editor in LW9 should be looked at by authors, being one of the most powerful addition to LW9 and probably almost all of the beta testers have been asking for somebody to write one or make a video tutorial.

The books I currently keep on my side at all times are:
Lightwave Texturing by Leigh Van Der Byl
Inside Lightwave 8 by Dan Ablan
Character Animation with Lightwave by Timothy Albee
LW8 1001 Tips and Tricks by a lot of LW artists

steamthunk
06-08-2006, 10:06 PM
I picked up Essential Lightwave 3D [8] a few weeks back and I have to say it's an excellent book. In fact I almost wish I had this book first as it really matches the way I learn. It is the manual that should ship with lightwave in my opinion.

oDDity
06-09-2006, 02:01 AM
I got the texturing book by Leigh, and didn't learn a single thing from it. I was quite knowledgeable about surfacing in LW already and was expecting a masterclass type thing, but it's pretty much newbish stuff.
There are very few books, if any, for people who are already at intermmediate + level.
I got d'artiste character modeling book. Useless, a bunch of old techniques you can find talkd to death in any modeling thread on any CG forum on the internet. It was full of cool pictures of leet looking characters etc, but there was nothing to learn.
My advice is forget books. Everything you need to know you can already find on the internet for free. This is where I learned everything I know.

t4d
06-09-2006, 02:26 AM
My advice is forget books. Everything you need to know you can already find on the internet for free. This is where I learned everything I know.

Agree & disagree
learning stuff yourself is what i prefer and really is the best way to learn anything if you have the time

But for exsample Jonny Gorden Rigging book (i have all the LW rigging books )
80% of the stuff written I already knew from my own LW work
But reading it was a great confirmation of my own method
feels good someone learnt the same lessons and come to the same POV

about 20% i do differently But Jonny put his way in such a way I understand why he does it that way, But still prefer my own methods for those things.

learning XSI, messiah etc I buy books etc again to confirm as i learn:hey:
it does help speed things up every now and then.

and your right the internet does have the ALOT of training material if you look etc

anyway All up it a very personal thing how we choose to learn
I clearly see your point oDDity and agree with it
Just wanted to say I do both :D

looking at your site oDDity you clearly know how to model that type of training just doesn't come from a book
that's the next level man =)

Auger
06-09-2006, 11:40 AM
the best one for character animation and rigging my far is Jonny Gordens
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/155622253X/002-4085693-6628808?v=glance&n=283155

full details, Nice logicly workflow, straight about LW limits and the best tricks to get the bests out of LW.

:agree: It also has great info on UV Mapping!

Jon

IMPERIAL
06-11-2006, 06:34 AM
if you are beginer there is no bad book..but consider videos too..

oDDity
06-11-2006, 07:32 AM
I also don't like that sort of book/video training because you are forced to learn someone else's technique. All you need are the basics (which you can find in your 3d app manual) and then you work out your own technique from there.
I guess that doesn't matter so much for technical stuff like rigging, but for the artistic side, you don't want to get the idea that someone esle's tehcnique is the only or best technique, or even one that you should use yourself.

t4d
06-11-2006, 07:56 PM
true for modeling, painting Textures etc very artist things ( not a huge amount of tech ) I have never really looked to help as well in those areas

so I do see you point there. modeling is a hand full of tools used alot of different ways, everyone has to find and fit whatever tools or methods into they own workflow. So Agree 100%

Character rigging, Hard/soft dyanmic's, Particles a quick look over a lesson is a plus i feel.

Signal to Noise
06-11-2006, 09:36 PM
if you are beginer there is no bad book...

There is if the book in question has erroneous information or incomplete/buggy tutorials. This can cause confusion and frustration to a 'newbie' who likely wouldn't be aware of the problem.

However, for the most part there isn't a "bad book" that I know of that pertains to LightWave. There are bad books that have been written for other apps that I have had the displeasure and aggravation of experiencing.

Stick with suggestions already contained in this thread. Videos are a good idea. Check out the ones on Kurv's site and pay extra attention to the ones made by Splinegod.:thumbsup:

steamthunk
06-12-2006, 10:47 AM
I also don't like that sort of book/video training because you are forced to learn someone else's technique. All you need are the basics (which you can find in your 3d app manual)

True, but I think there's some latitude between all or nothing here. If you go into 3D thinking there's only one way of doing something then there's already a fundamental failure there that transcends the content of the material. Being somewhat newb still, I still find great value in both reading (which if nothing else I can do on my commute) and watching videos (which came with the books and some online). Learning and extrapolating by example is still faster than learning from scratch. Furthermore, some people are more predisposed to learning in a certain way than others and that's the great thing about having so many resources and an online community.

Sort-of-related: A few nights ago I tried to explain to my girlfriend over the phone about subpatches when she asked what I was doing. It was almost impossible given she has no 3D grounding, but since she is a Matrix fan I finally said, "Unfortunately, no one can be told what the subpatch is. You have to see it for yourself." :jester:

oDDity
06-12-2006, 11:14 AM
Wow, that's some seriously romantic phone conversation, trying to explain the mathematics of subpatch interpolation algorithms...which brings us neatly onto the topic of why there are so few female 3d modelers. I don't know of any at all, whereas there are some seriosuly good ones on the 2d painting side, the likes of Linda Bergkvist is better than any guy I've seen.

Andyjaggy
06-12-2006, 04:10 PM
I dated a girl once that was into 3D modeling. Unfortunatley it didn't work out. she wasn't that good but at least she had an idea of what I was talking about.

I have a nasty habit of buying books simply because I like books and then never reading them, and/or reading them and finding nothing that usefull. The one book I have used fairly regularly is the 1001 tips book. It is full of short but cool ideas and tips. Some of them are not so usefull but there are a few jems in there. Try some of the Kurv video tutorials, I have really enjoyed them and learned a lot.

Celshader
06-12-2006, 04:21 PM
...why there are so few female 3d modelers. I don't know of any at all...

For what it's worth, I'm female, and I build 3D models. I still need to update my gallery (http://www.celshader.com/gallery/), though.

steamthunk
06-12-2006, 06:03 PM
which brings us neatly onto the topic of why there are so few female 3d modelers

I met a few when I was in school. They were architects and had to do some 3D as part of their studios. Personally, I'd rather meet more female models. :p Heck, I wouldn't mind meeting any 3D users but alas the New England users group thread refuses to actually happen.

t4d
06-12-2006, 07:04 PM
I meet a female once, I quickly married her and had kids etc
havn't seen one since =)

OH your talking about female modelers .. hmmm Jen and Leigh are the only ones I've ever seen and this is the internet !!!

I never seem to hang out where women live even on the internet as well ??? maybe i should type something rude into google LOL =)

ShawnStovall
06-12-2006, 07:46 PM
Then consider getting LW Essentials by Timothy Albee.

:agree:

colkai
06-13-2006, 04:09 AM
Dave Jerrards 'Lightwave Applied' both the "old" 5.6 and the 6.5/7 versions are very much still relevant.
Dans books, naturally, my shelves groan under the collective wieght. :)

Johhny Gordens books, buy both, no really, you must.
Nicks Lighting book, the one by Jeremy Birn, whilst not specifically LW is also very good.
Tim Albees character animation book.

Again, not LW, but Animators survivial guide is essential if you want to get into C.A.

I've got Leighs book, but between the other books, there isn't anything that's not covered in that area. Plus, with LW9, there is a whole new surfacing area to explore anyway.

At gunpoint, I'd say the absolute essentials would be Nicks lighting book, Inside LW8, then Johnny Gordens books if you are wanting a grounding in building, texturing and animating characters. Don't let the fact that it says "cartoon creation" fool you, the rules are the same regardless.

oDDity
06-13-2006, 04:20 AM
Character modeling books are all useless. What they don't teach you is what you absolutely have to know, and that is anatomy.
Knowing how to stick two polygons together is the easy part.
Anatomy is the essential basis of charcater art in all mediums, and you can only learn and memorise it through hard work and study on your own.

mattclary
06-13-2006, 05:23 AM
Wow, that's some seriously romantic phone conversation, trying to explain the mathematics of subpatch interpolation algorithms...which brings us neatly onto the topic of why there are so few female 3d modelers. I don't know of any at all, whereas there are some seriosuly good ones on the 2d painting side, the likes of Linda Bergkvist is better than any guy I've seen.

Women in general aren't as good at spatial relations as men are. I think it stems from the fact that we evolved to hunt mammoths and had to figure out the best angle to plant the spear. Obviously, there are exceptions, but it has been my experience that this hold pretty true. I have met several women who literally had to concentrate to tell you which is there left and right hand.

Please, no one take this as a slam on women, I'm just saying they are different than men, not inferior.

mattclary
06-13-2006, 05:32 AM
There are very few books, if any, for people who are already at intermmediate + level.

Agreed.



My advice is forget books. Everything you need to know you can already find on the internet for free. This is where I learned everything I know.

Agreed if you are already skilled, but if you are just starting out, I think books can be a great help. I like Dan's books a lot, own two I think, and am pretty sure I will get the next one, but my personal favorites are Dave Jerrard's. The castle in LW Applied 5.6 is what made me fall in love with LightWave.

oDDity, you just have talent falling out of your arse, so it's just hard for you to appreciate what a struggle it can be for those of us who aren't as naturally capable. I know that I would be much better if I worked harder, but I am not sure I could ever reach your level, and I KNOW there are plenty of people out there who could spend their entire lives learning and never reach your level.

zapper1998
06-13-2006, 05:38 AM
Cool - thanks guys.

Yes, Inside LightWave 9 is coming - a few months away yet, but in the works.

Tim's Essentials book is a good one as well. I don't think Desktop Images is getting into publishing books though, but Rex sure is a nice guy! :)


that is great news

anieves
06-13-2006, 09:27 AM
I've got Leighs book, but between the other books, there isn't anything that's not covered in that area. Plus, with LW9, there is a whole new surfacing area to explore anyway.


This book is getting updated for LW9, many cool things in the update :thumbsup:

colkai
06-13-2006, 11:35 AM
I had heard she wasn't bothering doing it, indeed, that was from her own statements on CGTalk. Has she changed her mind again, or is someone else doing the LW9 version?

Auger
06-13-2006, 11:51 AM
I had heard she wasn't bothering doing it, indeed, that was from her own statements on CGTalk. Has she changed her mind again, or is someone else doing the LW9 version?

I believe someone else is doing it. Would have been strange having someone who doesn't use LightWave anymore, writing a book about using it. :screwy:

Jon

Titus
06-13-2006, 12:55 PM
Character modeling books are all useless. What they don't teach you is what you absolutely have to know, and that is anatomy.
Knowing how to stick two polygons together is the easy part.
Anatomy is the essential basis of charcater art in all mediums, and you can only learn and memorise it through hard work and study on your own.

I think it's hard to disagree with you considering your portfolio, however I think the first steps for a beginner are really hard to take. I can remember my frustration trying to put my real hands inside this new virtual world, it was like trying to play with marbles using a mechanical caterpillar.

Of course good sense of proportion and anatomy are a must, but first our brain needs to understand a new way of thinking and you can help this learning using experience from the others.

Dan Ablan's book is a good investment, at least was for me a long time ago.

anieves
06-13-2006, 02:54 PM
Yes the book is getting an update. I don't think it has been officially announced but is getting done by yours truly. It's an honor to follow Leigh; I'm working really hard to give you all a great book.:thumbsup:

Auger
06-13-2006, 03:07 PM
Congrats Angel! :beerchug: When's it coming out?

oDDity
06-13-2006, 03:18 PM
I think it's hard to disagree with you considering your portfolio, however I think the first steps for a beginner are really hard to take. I can remember my frustration trying to put my real hands inside this new virtual world, it was like trying to play with marbles using a mechanical caterpillar.

Of course good sense of proportion and anatomy are a must, but first our brain needs to understand a new way of thinking and you can help this learning using experience from the others.

Dan Ablan's book is a good investment, at least was for me a long time ago.

Of course there is a lot more in the Inside LW books than character modeling, so it's a good investment, the technical sdies of CG can be learned of course, but it's the artistic side that I think can't really be learned, apart from what [email protected] already mentioned, another big aspect of it is creativity, and that's impossible to learn from reading a book.
Any good character modeling book would have to be as thck as a telephone directory, spending the first half covering anatomy, the second half covering creativity, and a little bit tacked on at the end about how to stick polygons together.
The bit you get in any charcater modeling book I've seen is just the bit at the end about sticking polygons together, they barely scratch the other stuff.
Knowing how to model is the easy part, it's working out exactly what you're going to model that's the difficult part.

Penforhire
06-13-2006, 03:46 PM
oDDity, what you are suggesting is true for every art medium that tries to represent life. The artist is well served to actually study anatomy. It was that very study, difficult anatomy-for-doctors classes, that led my artist-uncle Wynn to publish the first anatomy coloring book on the market.

I wouldn't say this makes "tool study", whether oil paints or pixel-pushing, useless but I'd agree it is not really the hard part.

mattclary
06-13-2006, 07:14 PM
Let me see if I can get a point across...

No matter what you do, if you use a tool to do that thing, in order to do that thing very well, you have to be ABLE to forget the tool is in your hand. Until the tool "disappears" (from your conscious thoughts), you will never get that truly artistic flow.

Be it a pencil, a baseball bat, tennis racket, chisel, or a piece of software, you must forget the tool even exists in your hand to be truly good with it.

To learn the tool, you need lots of practice and training.

anieves
06-13-2006, 08:16 PM
Congrats Angel! :beerchug: When's it coming out?

thanks!
can't really tell.

colkai
06-14-2006, 02:53 AM
No matter what you do, if you use a tool to do that thing, in order to do that thing very well, you have to be ABLE to forget the tool is in your hand. Until the tool "disappears" (from your conscious thoughts), you will never get that truly artistic flow.

True, learning the guitar, until such time as you can take your eyes off what your hands are doing and just "feel" your way, you'll never get too far.

I always consider to have actually learnt a song once I only need to glance at my positioning every so often rather than watching every move.

Same with 3D, you need to be able to visualise, otherwise the job is 10 times harder. (A fact I know only too well. :p)

Verlon
06-14-2006, 05:14 AM
I feel there is plenty to learn from books (what is the keyboard shortcut for this feature.... why keyboard shortcuts instead of mouse clicks... set that pesky subpatch order to last and why... etc).

Personally, I hate reading off the screen if a book is available.

You could have a phD in anatomy that wouldn't do you a hill of beans in character animation if you couldn't figure out how to make bones and weight maps work the way you need to.

Different people learn in different ways.

I like Inside Lightwave and 1001 Tips and Tricks both with Ablan's name somewhere on the cover. I have Leigh's texturing book. I also like the Kurv videos (Kevin Phillips stuff works well for me).

oDDity
06-14-2006, 05:59 AM
..which is why I said books are use for technical stuff. The artistic side, well, you'll just have to work on that, there's no quick fix, you can't just pick up a book and learn how to be an artist.
It's very useful to learn the artistic disiplines before you ever touch a 3d app, and for a person like that, books would be very handy to brush up quickly on the technical knowledge required. but I feel alot of kids today know nothign of art and just jump straght into kewl 3d apps, so they are trying to learn the technical and artistic at the same time from scratch, and that is very tough.

mattclary
06-14-2006, 05:59 AM
Personally, I hate reading off the screen if a book is available.

Agreed!!





You could have a phD in anatomy that wouldn't do you a hill of beans in character animation if you couldn't figure out how to make bones and weight maps work the way you need to.


Absolutely! If you don't know the tool, you can't use it to create.

mattclary
06-14-2006, 06:05 AM
..which is why I said books are use for technical stuff. The artistic side, well, you'll just have to work on that, there's no quick fix, you can't just pick up a book and learn how to be an artist.
It's very useful to learn the artistic disiplines before you ever touch a 3d app, and for a person like that, books would be very handy to brush up quickly on the technical knowledge required. but I feel alot of kids today know nothign of art and just jump straght into kewl 3d apps, so they are trying to learn the technical and artistic at the same time from scratch, and that is very tough.

Agreed. I don't think anyone here thinks a book about LightWave will teach you anything about art, it will just teach you how to use the tool.