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View Full Version : Come on Worley, say something



kfiram
05-28-2006, 03:53 AM
Well, the title says it all actually.
We wouldn't even be using LW if it wasn't for FPrime. Now we're stuck with either FPrime or Nodes.

Will there be a new version of FPrime that renders LW9 Nodes?
How about support for the new cameras?
APS?
Will it be a free upgrade to current FPrime users?
How much longer do we have to wait...?

ARE WE THERE YET???

Dexter2999
05-28-2006, 08:13 AM
How much longer do we have to wait...?

ARE WE THERE YET???

Are we there yet?

Stop touching me!!

MOM!, He's on my side!!

How much longer?

I have to go to the bathroom.

badllarma
05-28-2006, 08:52 AM
I feel sick

duke
05-28-2006, 09:01 AM
More like who want's to port Vray to lightwave and make a lot of money..

voriax
05-28-2006, 05:50 PM
There's been plenty of people asking whether fprime will be updated to work with version 9.. obviously, there's no answer yet, but if Worley intends to keep selling fprime, it would have to be upgraded to work with 9's nodes and shaders.

Personally, I like to believe the reason theres been no updates from them is because they're working so hard on programming the upgrade :D

Exception
05-28-2006, 06:52 PM
Worley will blow our mind, like he has always done, or he is retired.
If he retires, I will kill three bunnies and a squirrel. Please, Steve, save the animals!

Wickster
05-28-2006, 09:33 PM
I have enough money to buy fprime but was holding out a little till the update comes out. and it seems my money disappears little by little because of those pesky foods, dvds, fuel, water, electricity and entertainment.

anyway i'm actually waiting to see which would be a better purchase, fprime or poetry in motion. i just hope i don't spend all my money before they're both released.

Lego Maniac
05-29-2006, 05:24 AM
It's no surprise that Worley is quiet. If you ask them about LW 9 in email, they immediately reply that they are under NDA and aren't allowed to share any specific information about LightWave 9.

tonybliss
05-29-2006, 08:04 AM
then tell them the nda has been lifted... and therefore spill some beans ... anything ... I spent a good 495 on their excellent plugin and hope that it grows with lightwave.
... but reality is I have confidence in Worley! So i'll be patient ... a little!

Chuck
05-29-2006, 09:27 AM
then tell them the nda has been lifted... and therefore spill some beans ... anything ... I spent a good 495 on their excellent plugin and hope that it grows with lightwave.
... but reality is I have confidence in Worley! So i'll be patient ... a little!

Only the NDAs of Open Beta participant end users are partially lifted to allow for discussion of v9 features. This does not affect the variety of other NDAs that NewTek has in effect with other parties and for other purposes.

tonybliss
05-29-2006, 10:17 AM
yes yes... I do understand that!!! I am patient and confident with the progress of LW and my favourite third party vendors

KillMe
05-29-2006, 10:20 AM
newtek could give worley special permission to say wether nodes will be supported in fprime anytime soon :thumbsup:

wacom
05-29-2006, 12:04 PM
I doubt it will be a problem since Nodal WAS working with Fprime very early on before NewTek took it on.

Lightwolf
05-29-2006, 12:16 PM
I doubt it will be a problem since Nodal WAS working with Fprime very early on before NewTek took it on.
Yes, but back then it was implement as a texture layer (amongs others), with limited functionality.
I.e. it isn't possible for a texture layer to use UVs (properly).

The new nodal options need a change to FPrime, since the LW SDK has been extended to accomodate for them.

Cheers,
Mike

mav3rick
05-29-2006, 03:50 PM
i think it''s worley turn now... or will be really soon i mean really really soon... almost now:)

wacom
05-29-2006, 04:17 PM
Yes, but back then it was implement as a texture layer (amongs others), with limited functionality.
I.e. it isn't possible for a texture layer to use UVs (properly).

The new nodal options need a change to FPrime, since the LW SDK has been extended to accomodate for them.

Cheers,
Mike

There you go again with that reality of the situation stuff. I thought praying to my Ju Ju stick was going to get Fprime working...man...facts schmacks.

Anyone have any idea as to how hard it has been/will be to get nodal running with Fprime? Are you saying Lightwolf that from your understanding of nodal, the LW SDK, and how Fprime works that the pieces are already there? Any nibblet of hope here?

T-Light
05-29-2006, 05:56 PM
It's not just nodal, it's the new cameras and all the little things that didn't work before ie hypervoxels (in FPrime preview), old style shaders (even worleys') etc.

We're going to need more than one Ju Ju stick for that lot.

T-Light
05-29-2006, 06:34 PM
not forgetting sasquatch and saslite.

Lightwolf
05-29-2006, 07:16 PM
Anyone have any idea as to how hard it has been/will be to get nodal running with Fprime?
Are you saying Lightwolf that from your understanding of nodal, the LW SDK, and how Fprime works that the pieces are already there? Any nibblet of hope here?
Well... looking at the SDK I'd say that theoretically the hooks are there for node based surfaces and camera support.
However, whatever issues would creep up during the actual implementation in FPrime I can only guess at. Multithreading is likely to be a big one (i.e. what happens if FPrime is in the middle of evaluating an nodal graph on a surface and the user decides to delete a node...).
Even now, FPrime can be flaky enough (i.e. copying and pasting of texture layers is brittle).

I think the cameras should be easier to implement.

Cheers,
Mike

theo
05-29-2006, 09:36 PM
The Worley people are actually in an interesting situational hiatus.

They have a small deep products that almost everyone likes.

They are a tiny but powerful Lightwave institution.

Steve sits on the left hand of God in a lot of users minds.

This all equals the very predictable state of Worley Labs as of this moment which any developer smart enough (and obviously Steve is) would be replicating.

Silence. Yupper...silence.

Furthermore this also means that any discussion of new Worley toys before the Labs officially announce them can be summed up in one word as well.

Futile. Yupper...futile. And an additional word for emphasis. Utterly futile.

I think that about sums it up...thread closed....:D :D (Well, heck it may as well be....though I guess we could all just sit around here reading Lightwolf's attempts at dissecting the digital intestines of a new FPrime...ah well...have at it wolfman...arf.)

Wickster
05-29-2006, 09:41 PM
The fact that Worley is on NDA makes me wonder what Newtek don't want them to say...

mav3rick
05-30-2006, 02:47 AM
well sometime cause of strategy developers doesnt reveal all of theyr cards... they keep stuff till the end... believe me.. we are not left behind.. they do think about us now.... just give em support and bit of time..
personally i vote them to do thinngs RIGHT this time and to stop doing half solutions.

pixelinfected
05-30-2006, 03:32 AM
i adore a great thing of Steve,
he talk only when product is ready to ship or close to to ship, not before.
i prefer to know all when is ready, everything before that point is useless speculation and waste time. when steve is ready it realease it.
like you i hope is early, but developing is not a simple science, and if he need more time, mean that he show us a new marvellous toy, or newer version of his toys.
keep on guys and be patience.

Lightwolf
05-30-2006, 03:39 AM
I think that about sums it up...thread closed....:D :D (Well, heck it may as well be....though I guess we could all just sit around here reading Lightwolf's attempts at dissecting the digital intestines of a new FPrime...ah well...have at it wolfman...arf.)
:cursin: :lol: I'll shut up already ;)

Cheers,
Mike - :beerchug:

KillMe
05-30-2006, 04:25 AM
well one thing you can be sure of - it wont ship prior to lw9 and as such worley labs cant go saying ohhhhhhhhh look at all the cool LW9 features frime can now use because of lw9 NDA which he is still subject too unlike us

we probally get told something once lw 9 ships - at least i hope so

mrcracked
06-10-2006, 03:14 AM
maybe they are just waiting till the final release? I can imagine it would suck to have a working f-prime with the beta version of lightwave only to have newtek fix a smaller bug and make it useless.

mdoyle
06-15-2006, 07:32 AM
The thing is, that fp prime is handy to use and u can probably guarantee that even some developers at newtek would use it. I mean from people that I know of developers, they might be different companies but probably still do keep in touch for dvelopment process. The beta of 9 might have even reached worely before any of use or they had an idea of what the sdk might be and could just be working quietly on it since well if its not finished then there is no point in givine away features as they might not all work. THey should only do that when they are beta testing it internally. THere will be a FP Prime update, but it will be getting worked on just now, u will just have to wait and thats it.

lwaddict
06-15-2006, 07:46 AM
Why not just cut em some slack...
Lightwave's been altered from the ground up which leads me to believe that the more powerful plugins like Sas, FPrime, etc will also need to be rewritten from the ground up...less we get another semi-useful tool for 500 bucks like FPrime in it's current state.

I'd prefer to just wait until Worley's got something that works and covers it all...a utility like FPrime is only as strong as it's weakest point and it's only so useful right now.

Crossing my fingers that the silence means that they're too busy working.

Kurtis
06-15-2006, 08:54 AM
Worley has a web site at http://www.worley.com.
Worley has a mailing list at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/worleylabs

I am sure that when Worley is ready to make an announcment, you will see it at one of those two venues first.

Taliska
06-16-2006, 03:26 AM
Ok, so I think it's obvious what worley is doing...

LW9 has the new "camera" vs the old "camera"...but what it really means is...there is the ability to plug-in different renderers right? I mean, I haven't been paying much attention, but it seems like the new "camera" (renderer) is completely ray based, where as the old lightwave renderer was using a straight forward rasteriser (scan line render or whatever you want to call it), and though it might only the front of the renderer that's different for those two renderers, and the core scene management and spatial functions are shared, I'd imagine it's also possible to plug-in a renderer that does absolutely everything itself. Now I haven't looked at the SDK recently, and so don't know if if the plug-in camera model exists, but if it does, then surely Steve is busy adapting FPrime to work natively in LightWave. Even if the SDK hasn't exposed all the necessary bits, it's still possible that NewTek have given him "behind the scene" access, or that he has access to a version of the SDK that will be released as part of the quick iterative release cycle that LightWave is supposed to have...that is...LW9.1 will have that capability perhaps? Just a thought...after all...what possible information could he know that would require him to still be under NDA?

Lightwolf
06-16-2006, 03:52 AM
Ok, so I think it's obvious what worley is doing...

LW9 has the new "camera" vs the old "camera"...but what it really means is...there is the ability to plug-in different renderers right?
Nope. The camera plugins tell the raytraced renderer where to shoot the rays for which pixel of the final image. Not much more than that.
FPrime could however query those cameras to be able to render their view of things from within FPrime.


I'd imagine it's also possible to plug-in a renderer that does absolutely everything itself.
The main reason why third party renderers need LW is the evaluation of surface attributes (i.e. nodes, textures) as well as volumetrics.
They basically handle the geometric side of things, raytracing and lighting, but once a ray hits a surface LW is needed to work out the properties of that surface. Otherwise third parties would have to completely re-code LWs surfacing system... including all procedurals etc...

Cheers,
Mike

Bog
06-16-2006, 04:16 AM
Is it the 14th yet?

I need a wee.

Muuuuum! Colkai's making faces at me!

Sorry. Flashback. I'm better now.

I'd really like it if Steve Worley threw us a bone - presumably, though, if he'd downed tools and decided to live on a beach in the Bahamas, we'd have heard about it by now. The fact that we haven't is probably a positive sign.

And if it isn't, I shall throw my toys from the pram and scream the place down.

colkai
06-16-2006, 05:41 AM
Fprime, with shader and Nodal hooks please, I'll have that to go. :)

WhiteBoy
06-16-2006, 08:40 AM
I want FPrime so bad, but I can't do anything until an announcement is made. :cry: