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View Full Version : Facial Rig using Bones



SplineGod
05-23-2006, 07:35 PM
I dont want to post duplicate posts so heres the link :)
http://www.cgfocus.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1604#post1604

omeone
05-24-2006, 01:42 AM
Deadly... something I was goinng to spend a bit of time with myself... looks like you saved me the trouble :)

SplineGod
05-24-2006, 02:48 AM
Thanks. Ive messed with this before in the past but it was a lot of work.
Someone had sent me a video of Taron setting up something along these lines using Messiah and said how he wished this could be done in LW.
Doing the same thing in LW is about as easy as I saw in the video.
The nice thing is that like any other things in IKBoost, facial animation and poses can be saved, reused, copied and pasted quite easily.
What I would like to see is a real nice pose mixer like Messiah has. Its sort of like Morph Mixer for poses. This is where a tool like Maestro would come in handy because constructing a set of controls to manipulate rigs like this would be easy. :)

NanoGator
05-24-2006, 02:49 AM
*wunners about setting up a facial autorigger*

Heh.

omeone
05-24-2006, 02:56 AM
What I would like to see is a real nice pose mixer like Messiah has. Its sort of like Morph Mixer for poses.

me too, a lot of people are (rightly) disappointed that IKB doesnt work wiht MotionMixer, and while yes, this should be fixed, I would LOVE to see what kind of NLE Ino would come up with for IKB.


This is where a tool like Maestro would come in handy because constructing a set of controls to manipulate rigs like this would be easy. :)

Yep, IKB had gotta be opened to 3rd Party developers.

I would love to see a panel where you save and recall different "RIG as Comments" settings (and used for quick access to poses motions etc etc).

SplineGod
05-24-2006, 03:02 AM
Nanogator,
Ive mentioned it to you before but nows a good time again. :)
You should think about supporting as much of IKBs features as you can.
IKB saves motions and poses in a txt format which should be a piece 'o cake to deal with. The rig file format supports it better then 'standard' rigs as well.
The nice thing is that it would be very fairly easy to reload and reuse facial rigs.
Moving things around with the bone tools is easy and IKB just keeps on running fine. The great thing is being able to easily extract the facial animation or poses and reapply them one the bones are reset.
What would be nice again is a set of tools to easily rescale the motions once theyre reapplied to a different face with very different proportions.
IKB would also be a great way to deal with mocap too. I really like that you can extract motions or poses from a whole rig or parts of a rig. This would fit like a glove wth what Maestro can do.

Colin,
Ive spoken to Mark Brown in the past and he mentioned that motion mixer was originally intended as a game tool for mixing motions to be used in games. I would like to see Ino just do one for IKB since it already has many of the elements already there. How hard can it be to create even stick figure like snapshots (with comments) for a pose or motion library?
I believe the rig file format is open and theres an sdk for it. Ino jumped on it and Id like to see others follow suite.
I havent tried using motion mixer with IKB. If people are having problems I would try just removing IKB from the rig once everythings animated because the motions are still there.
Colin Cohen also has a nice little pose mixer. The elements are all there, I just wish Newtek would tie up the loose ends.

colkai
05-24-2006, 03:59 AM
Oh boy, I can't even begin to figure out how you'd do that.
Now, tying Maestro2, IKB and MotionMixer together we'd really have a "MB-Lite" type functionality. :)

SplineGod
05-24-2006, 04:22 AM
IKB rigs work fine already in Maestro. The reason is that IKBoost doesnt apply its motions to Goals but directly to bones/items. You can also do some motion mixing in IKB since you can copy/paste motions from a whole rig or parts of a rig and append them when/where you want. We just need more of the functionality of MM in there. Right now MM is about as unintegrated as a plugin can get. I doubt Marks ever going to update it or Newtek for that matter (crossing my fingers). I think it would make sense for Ino to do it. :)

omeone
05-24-2006, 04:24 AM
Oh boy, I can't even begin to figure out how you'd do that.
Now, tying Maestro2, IKB and MotionMixer together we'd really have a "MB-Lite" type functionality. :)

Hehee MB must be ****-hot :D

(no wonder they are charging an arm and a leg for it)

Larry,
Yeah, you're right again :), I wasn't thinking of how much IKB I/O is already just text... it should be possible for people to develope stuff like this already.

As for MM and IKB, its not that simple unfortunatly. I'm not hugely familiar with MM myself, and in basic operation, yeah you could probably get things working that way. But once you apply MM, it fuddles-up IKB not the other way round.

I'm thinking there mioght be workarounds using two instances of Layout but need to put it too the test (like 100 other things)

But the real reason, I'd love to see Ino develop an IKB Motion/Pose editor is cos the guys a freaking genius and you'd be almost guaranteed it would be amazing :D

BTW, there is already a motion-blender in IKB for anyone who hasnt seen it yet. Just save and load a motion and set the pre and post frame values.

edit: Larry beat me to most of it, grrr ;)

colkai
05-24-2006, 04:33 AM
Thing is, with this lot tied together, I really can see LW giving a lot of functionality that MB std has, I don't see any reason why LW's C.A. couldn't be fixed and beefed up to this sort of level. Which I really think could pull across all those jaded by the Autodesk shenanigans.

Sarford
05-24-2006, 04:39 AM
Hmm... I don't know how much work it is to set up such a rig but it looks a LOT more flexible than endomorphs!

So good to have you guys (and ppl like you) around here! I wouldn't know half of what this software is capable of without you :)

SplineGod
05-24-2006, 05:37 AM
Setting up such a rig is dead simple. What you see is it. Theres no IK or other controls added and bones that are parented to each other will simply rotate additively if you multiselect them. This is just the most basic rig - a character with bones in it.
From there you can test deformations as I was showing so that you can decide how to fix any undesireable effects by using hold bones, weight maps and endomorphs. This is just an easy way to determine if and where you might need the additional help. :)

BTW I just posted up a quick little video showing how I might setup controls for the shoulder area using IKBoost.
http://www.3dtrainingonline.com/examples/ikb_shoulder_rig.mov

lilrayray77
05-24-2006, 02:15 PM
It is great to see more an more things being discovered. It really shows that things can be achieved with out the use of $500+ plugins. Thanks larry.

SplineGod
05-24-2006, 02:39 PM
Thanks! This is also as easy to setup IMO as it is in the $500 application :)