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View Full Version : Intous Tablet or Mouse?



eidetiken
05-22-2006, 03:19 PM
Looking into getting a new mouse or Intuos tablet. Leaning towards a Logitech MX1000 mouse but the Intous 6x8 tablet looks interesting. Wondering what other peoples experiences are with using the a tablet with lightwave and how well they work.

RedBull
05-22-2006, 03:24 PM
Wacom, Wacom, Wacom!!!

There is not even a question in this, Mouse Vs Tablet, Tablet wins....
I refuse to work in Layout or Modeler without a tablet.

I have a mouse plugged in at the same time, but generally once you use one, you won't be able to use anything else....

eidetiken
05-22-2006, 03:39 PM
Redbull which tablet do you have? I'm looking at the Intuos3.

How do these tablets actually work? For instance: When I move my mouse i see the cursor run across the screen then click to activate. Tablet work the same? Do you keep pen contact with the tablet and watch the cursor move... and use another hand to click a button the tablet..or is there a click thang on the pen itself?

Confused about how these tablets actually work... never actually seen in real life.

Exception
05-22-2006, 03:48 PM
I have a Wacom Graphire XL (or 6x8), which is excellent for LW work.
If you do Autocad you might want to buy an intuos because of the scroll thing on the side, other than that, there's no real reason to buy an intuos other than if you use tilt angle for painting.

Tablets though are definately the way to go, mice are just antiquated, you work so much more exact, faster and it is so much healthier in the long run than a mouse too.

Lord Snarebotto
05-22-2006, 04:05 PM
I'd go with the Cintiq 21UX....

oh, wait, I did. Nevermind.

Nothing like being able to draw on the screen... :bowdown:

Realimagesvideo
05-22-2006, 05:40 PM
I don't get how you are using a tablet with lightwave? Pen and tablet seems clumbsy in lightwave. Yes, it works well in photoshop or mirage but in modeler or layout, nope! Pen/tablet uses absolute positioning whereas mouse use relative positioning. If I am missing something let me know. Because I use Intuos 3.

Exception
05-22-2006, 06:20 PM
I dont know how you can like working in modeler with a mouse?
The pen is absolute, yes, why is that a problem? You are infinately more exact, you can properly draw selections with the lasso, you can select polys and vertices much more quickly and precisely with the pen than with a mouse, especially with movement acceleration and imperfections in your table and whatnot.
And we all know, modeler is all about selections :)

It takes a little time to get used to, but after that, working with a mouse just feels like riding a bicycle backwards with your hands on the pedals.

RedBull
05-22-2006, 08:56 PM
I have 2 Wacoms an ArtZ-12x12, and an Intuos3 6x8.
I believe Intuos actually have more pressure levels than the graphire too.
rotation and tilt which helps a lot when painting, textures etc..
But i guess it depends on your needs.

I sometimes switch my hand to the optical mouse in Layout, but generally i use the tablet in both.... Make sure you switch LW and Modeler to use Tablet mode and not Mouse mode.

The drivers are really configurable for sensitivity and dbl click speeds and distances..... You usually tap the pen-nib once or twice to dbl click...
It feels far more natural to me for most tasks, than a mouse does.

I find it Modeler i just could never even attempt to do any organic modeling without it..... A mouse is just so backwards.

Yes the mind boggles at how much more natural a cintiq must be.. :)

Silkrooster
05-23-2006, 01:19 AM
I been thinking about a tablet myself. I had one years ago, but the company went belly up and no more drivers.
My main concern is driver updates. I been thinking of waiting until vista ships before getting a tablet. Nothing like paying 2 to 3 hundred or more for a tablet and you can't use it when the next version of windows becomes available.
But, then again Wacom has been around for years. And I haven't really heard of any complaints yet.
Silk

joao
05-23-2006, 11:10 AM
other than that, there's no real reason to buy an intuos other than if you use tilt angle for painting.

Actually... there is a very good and unfortunate reason to use an intuos instead of graphire. The graphire drivers are limited in that you cannot assign keystrokes (or anything else) to individual applications. Once you set up your driver for the graphire thats how it will work in every program. Intuos drivers allow you to have application-specific settings.

DrTWT
05-23-2006, 11:38 AM
i have a intuous 6x8 that i use all the time in PS and Flash, though haven't really used it much in LW.

just tried it again now and i'm running into problems with zooming, panning, and other general pane navigation (essentially no control with the pen, though the mouse works ok)

any thoughts?

Exception
05-23-2006, 04:14 PM
Actually... there is a very good and unfortunate reason to use an intuos instead of graphire. The graphire drivers are limited in that you cannot assign keystrokes (or anything else) to individual applications. Once you set up your driver for the graphire thats how it will work in every program. Intuos drivers allow you to have application-specific settings.

Oh yah they changed that, I have a graphire2 tablet too and I use that drivers, and that one can do it. Wacom makes really good tablets but they are a mean nasty company. The graphires can do it, sure, but they have recently started to strip the drivers' functionality. Just to sell the outrageously priced intuosses. Also noticed they keep coming out with new models that are exactyl the same as the previous one but with a higher price tag?
I still have an Ultrapad A3. Yes, it has the same pressure levels, the tame tilt options, yes it has configurable buttons and application sensitivity... they havn;t changed in 10 years...

Basically wacom has the patents on the technology to make a good tablet, and no one else does. Tablets with batteries in the pen are worthless pieces of junk with wobbling cursors, inexact control, horrible drivers...

erikals
05-24-2006, 05:37 AM
Get one :)
might be tricky at first, but I honestly feel sorry for the artists that haven't bought one yet. Even more super to use in PhotoShop. (using an old Wacom A5 here, never had any problems with it, been using cheaper brands too, like Trust, and it worked allright, not Wacom quality, but good enough for my work)

vincent1
05-24-2006, 08:52 AM
Zoom, pan, tilt all works fine for me on the Graphire 2 and 3. Something's wrong with your setup. You need to press shortcut keys for the zoom, pan, tilt and move the pen.

I have only one thing to add. Learn to use the wacom pen. I pushed pixels for 10 years before Carpal Tunnel Syndrome set in. I thought it was a myth, but the pain sure feels real enough and I wish it on no one, not even my enemies.

It's worse when you do 3D because you move vertices very precisely and in very small movements. If you pay some attention next time you push vertices, after half an hour, you are likely to be gripping the mouse like a vice. Years of that without care, you can say goodbye to your joints.

PLEASE use a wacom tablet.

erikals
05-24-2006, 09:30 AM
Yep, have it too, and it will probably never go away, know people that had to quit their dayjob because of this. It often happens because of too much static work, remember to take a break every hour, doing some exersises, and swithching between using the mouse and the tablet is also a good idea. (got a little off topic here, but it is important to remember)

lilrayray77
05-24-2006, 02:04 PM
So from the looks of it, it is worth investing in a wacom tablet? I have a really nice mireless logitec mouse, and I still am a little unsure wether this is something I really need.

erikals
05-24-2006, 02:26 PM
Remember the first time you used a mouse? Same thing with a tablet, you'll get used to it. Just do it.

Lord Snarebotto
05-24-2006, 04:43 PM
I have only one thing to add. Learn to use the wacom pen. I pushed pixels for 10 years before Carpal Tunnel Syndrome set in. I thought it was a myth, but the pain sure feels real enough and I wish it on no one, not even my enemies.

Had that problem starting to creep up over 10 years ago. Switched to using Logitech Trackman Marble thumb-operated trackballs and the pain went away in short order, and has not returned.

A tablet is not the only solution.:cool:

joao
05-24-2006, 05:19 PM
"take a break every hour"
.... if only life was so fair. I can think of a number of health / lifestyle improvements that for some reason seem to be incompatible with the workplace. Funnily enough, i bought a 2nd hand intuos 2 with the hopes that it would make life easier for me - but i only ever use the mouse that came with it. Cannot get used to using a pen with Lightwave or CAD. It's the scroll-wheel you see.... Without a scroll-wheel on the pen i can't easily zoom in and out, and then its not fun anymore.

lilrayray77
05-24-2006, 07:34 PM
Does the graphire 4 pen come with buttons actually on the pen? If so, I really think I may buy this. Oh is 6"x8" a good size?

Exception
05-24-2006, 09:49 PM
yeah 6x8 is a nice size. Graphire comes with a duo switch on the pen and an eraser button, basically same pen as intuos.

I have some RSI (carpal tunnel syndrome) info on my website, under 'about us' section, bottom left, if anyone wants to read up a little bit about it in laymans terms.

Silkrooster
05-24-2006, 09:53 PM
I think the 6 x 8 was the size I was looking at. My last tablet was 12 x 12 and was really too large to keep on the desk. But I liked the idea of tracing from a peice of paper, but then again that did not happen very often since I have a scanner.
Silk

lilrayray77
05-25-2006, 04:24 AM
Oh and also, on the wacom sight, for the intuos, it lists how accurate it is. Anyone know the Graphire accuracy.

UnCommonGrafx
05-25-2006, 04:36 AM
Wow William,
You don't use those big boys for LW?! Gasp...

Only a tablet. Mice hurt after a while.

SCS5
05-25-2006, 05:08 AM
I too use the Intuos3 6X8. I've been using Wacoms for the last 15 years & won't never go back. Also, don't even think of going with any other tablet manufacturer, Wacom is by far the best!
One thing no one mentioned is that you can easily switch between the Intuos3 Pen or Mouse any time, and you can set the Mouse to work in "Mouse Mode" and the pen can still work in "Relative Mode" In Lightwave I use the Mouse, it just feels more accurate. for Photoshop & any paint or graphics program , Pen all the way!

eidetiken
05-25-2006, 06:12 AM
A 5 button mouse comes with the Intuos, how good is it... compared to a something like a logitec mouse?

SCS5
05-25-2006, 06:31 AM
It works great! Mice sort of fall into the personal preferences category. The Wacom Mouse doesn't have all that sculpted crap to fit your hand, it's just a nice comfortable ergonomic shape & it's Right or Left hand friendly..I'm a lefty. For me the Wacom Intuos mouse is all I need.

JML
05-25-2006, 06:37 AM
I all time thought that tablets were only for photoshop and stuff like that, not layout or modeller..

I'm surprised that so many of you use tablets with layout..
which makes me want to try one to see how it is..

I bought a big cheap tablet before, and 2 weeks after, the pen did not work..
(and no, it was not the pen's battery ;) )
so I will try to get a wacom to try it out..

erikals
05-25-2006, 07:38 AM
"take a break every hour"
.... Cannot get used to using a pen with Lightwave or CAD. It's the scroll-wheel you see.... Without a scroll-wheel on the pen i can't easily zoom in and out, and then its not fun anymore.

My thumb always "rests" on the Alt key, whenever I zoom I in addition press the Ctrl key with the littlefinger. I guess it is a matter of preference but I always found that way of zooming to be quite fast.

wongster
05-26-2006, 05:48 PM
depends what kind of modeling you do, very useful for spline modelling. I like my mouse for everything else though

wongster
05-26-2006, 08:30 PM
depends what kind of modeling you do, very useful for spline modelling. I like my mouse for everything else though
I've heard the intuo is nice though. My friend seems to like it alot for accuracy.

Rayek
05-28-2006, 04:31 AM
DrTWT, make sure you change the display-->interface settings to 'tablet'. It should work fine after that.

I have a intuos A5 and cannot live without it. It takes some practice using one, though (I've been using them for over 15 years).

A few years back my old tablet gave up on me and, because of financial reasons, I was forced to use a mouse all the time. After two or three months my right arm went numb and cold every time I touched the mouse.

Fortunately enough the cash flow was increasing again, so I could purchase a new wacom. Guess what? The problems with my arm and hand were gone within a week. Two colleagues of mine were having problems as well. One was on sick leave and could only work two half days in a week, the other half a week. Their pain increasing, they were quite desperate.

I managed to pursuade them and the manager to buy some wacoms. And what do you know? After three months the first colleague was working most days again. Today she works fulltime and won't be parted with 'her' wacom.

Yes, there are other solutions, but a wacom works best, in my humble opinion.

By the way, as long as we are talking ergonomics: lightwave should really include some kind of spacemouse support. It's the only 3d-app that I use that doesn't work with it.

eidetiken
06-07-2006, 03:05 PM
just got my Intuos 3... 6x8 tablet. This is nice, especially since I already have Corel Painter IX.5 and PhotoshopCS2. I watched a character rigging tutorial, one of the free tuts on the Kurv website I think, and he had set up his mouse to bring up menus by using the right or middle mouse button. I'm on an Intel Mac and wondering if I can setup the grip pen the same way... like click the top pen button, have it set for middle mouse button or something, and bring up a menu?

Just wondering how other people have their tablets set up, how do you have your buttons on the tablet and the pen mapped and so forth, and what not?