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iDV8
05-19-2006, 03:44 AM
I would like to get some feedback from this group on MAC VS. Windows. I have used Windows for years and have wanted to switch platforms to MAC for a long time. Now that I'm in the market for a computer this might be the time. I'd like to hear some PROs and CONs of both to help me better make up my mind. I'd appreciate your help.

Applications: Video, Graphics & 3D (LW 9 upgrade) :lwicon:

Sub Debate: Lap top VS. Desk top

I like portability but what are the major sacrifices in power and money?

:argue:

BazC
05-19-2006, 04:01 AM
This thread is asking for trouble! People on this board are generally pretty civilised about this stuff but the eternal Mac/Windows debate is always risky!

Speaking purely about Lightwave I'd have to say Windows has the edge, there are more plugins available for Windows and openGL is much better on Windows.

I use a Mac though :D

mattclary
05-19-2006, 06:01 AM
What's the matter? Did your other thread attempting to start a flame war fizzle?

First this:



P.S. I'm considering switching platforms... PC to MAC. Let the games begin!

Then the title of this thread: MAC vs. Windows!

WTF, dude? :screwy: Get a life. If you really want to try a Mac, get a Mac. The new ones can dual boot with Windows, so have a nut.

Captain Obvious
05-19-2006, 06:31 AM
WTF, dude? :screwy: Get a life. If you really want to try a Mac, get a Mac. The new ones can dual boot with Windows, so have a nut.
I concur.

Really, inside your 3D app, you don't even notice a difference (except that Lightwave for Mac is not yet Intel-native, so it's slow as **** on the new Macs). If you want a Mac, get a Mac. If you want something else, get something else.

iDV8
05-19-2006, 07:43 AM
What's the matter? Did your other thread attempting to start a flame war fizzle? WTF, dude? :screwy: Get a life. If you really want to try a Mac, get a Mac. The new ones can dual boot with Windows, so have a nut.

I wasnít attempting a war, I didnít realize that these were fightín words. Nobody got into the MAC question on the other post so I thought I would isolate it on this one. I thought people would say I like MAC because of this or that and I prefer PC because this or that. I havenít used a MAC in over a decade, I donít know much about them.
For example, I didnít know ďthe new ones can dual boot with WindowsÖ thanks for the nut. Or that there are more plug-ins for WindowÖ thanks for the nut, BazC.



Really, inside your 3D app, you don't even notice a difference (except that Lightwave for Mac is not yet Intel-native, so it's slow as **** on the new Macs). If you want a Mac, get a Mac. If you want something else, get something else.

I also didnít know that ďitís slow as **** on the new MacsĒ, thanks for the nut.

I donít know if I want a MAC yet, Iíll have to ask some questions. Do you really think itís as easy as dropping $2,000 or $3,000 without asking questions first? Ooops! I didnít want a MAC, oh well.

I had no idea that it was such an emotional issue. I meant no harm to anyone, I just figured if any one did know it would be people on this forum.

I donít have 3,000 + posts, Iím new. Thanks for the nuts.:thumbsup:

Verlon
05-19-2006, 07:44 AM
Yeah, get a core duo....

have both...

Problem solved.

joao
05-19-2006, 10:13 AM
Actually...
I feel this mac vs pc thread is important now. Fair enough it has never been more than a stupid war but with the mac intels now lots of new questions are raised.
Personally.... I am a long time mac user in need of getting a laptop and was certain of getting a pc until now. There are lots of industry standard apps on pc not available for macs (in my case, autocad and 3d studio). I have been able to survive without them so far but not anymore.
Does windows really work on the macbook natively? Does autocad and other cad /cam /3d apps work bug-free on the new macs? Will they carry on working in the next few years (i.e. windows vista beta seems to be unbootable...).
The only difference I see between the mac and pc systems is that the macbook uses EFI instead of BIOS. I have no idea what this will mean to us end-users.
It would be great if someone who has used 3d and cad apps on the new macs under windows told us of their experience - to see if the macbook really is a full blown dual-boot solution.
Not trying to start a pc-mac war. Just wondering how windows-compatible these new macbooks are....

joao.

Verlon
05-19-2006, 10:28 AM
I think Windows Vista is going to support EFI so it should be bootable.

Ivan
05-19-2006, 11:18 AM
Get both. You will soon find that it's very useful to have one of each in the office for a number of reasons. LW ships with a dongle, move it from one to the other to see which you like. With the price of computers today it's not like it's all that expensive to do this. I don't understand why anyone in this business would want to have just one or the other since you need more than one computer anyway.

Ivan

iDV8
05-19-2006, 12:16 PM
Part of it is the soft ware, although the high end stuff like Light Wave and Avid are able to simply switch dongles, other programs don't. It gets expensive when you need all new software too.
I think it is an excellent point you bring up though. That's why I'm considering a new MAC, I can always fall back on my current PCs if the need arises.

JeffRutan
05-19-2006, 12:21 PM
I agree with just about everything in this thread so far- amazing!

I suggest you borrow a Mac from someone with OSX 10.4 Tiger and try it for a few days with applications that you really use and with the software that comes with the Mac. If you go to an Apple store, they have lessons and lots of folks that will be glad to show you how to use the machine and its included software (plus Mac-only Final Cut Pro Studio is awesome for video editing). If it clicks with you then great! Welcome to the club! If it doesn’t, then move along, thanks for trying, and stop reading here!

I have and use both daily. For maximum productivity and flexibility, one computer is not enough. I prefer to work on Macs, but I spend about equal time on PCs. On the desktop I prefer one of each side by side (plus a Mac laptop on the side). Dual booting is too much hassle for desktops. If you need a PC for some things, it is much more efficient to have a dedicated PC. Especially in 3D work there are so many times when you have to wait for renders, having a second computer (laptop, Mac or PC) running can keep up the productivity.

For laptops, you don't want to carry both with you, so if you like Macs but sometimes need a PC, the new MacBook Pros are the ultimate solution. You can dual boot and they perform on the Windows side as good or better than comparable PC laptops. Apple recently upgraded the EFI firmware (via download) to emulate BIOS so there should not be a problem with Vista either (I expect Apple to keep upgrading the firmware as the need arises to support Vista and maybe others like Linux). I use a PowerPC Mac laptop and run Virtual PC for the Windows stuff I need on the go, but that does not perform well enough for 3D apps.

The only problem right now is that Apple is changing all their computers to Intel chips and not all the Mac software is ready to run on Intel yet (including LW and Adobe stuff). The PowerPC software will run on the new Macs, but some things like 3D and PhotoShop are too slow under the Rosetta PowerPC emulation. For me, the best choice is to wait another year before upgrading my laptop (after Adobe CS3 is out and others like LW also release Universal Binary (Intel native Mac versions that also include the PowerPC native code). However, if you have the PC version of the software, it will run a full performance when you boot into Windows and run it there.

-Jeff

joao
05-19-2006, 12:59 PM
Although i'm not speaking from personal experience.... i have read in the apple forums when trying to evaluate the validity of windows on a macbook, that people are refused demonstrations of boot camp at apple stores or centres. Although it is understandable that Apple tries to promote its own OS, it's a pity that we can't test windows + its apps before buying the machine. Autodesk has already said that autocad is not supported on a macbook... no real surprise, but still... I guess it will be a while before we all find out what intel macs really mean to the 3d and cad industry. I for one would normally buy a pc laptop for my needs, but this time the macbook seems to be faster, lighter and cheaper than the competition!
As for getting 2 computers + 2 sets of software.... i'm a student about to enter the workplace. And even if i wasn't, i'd rather not have the hassle.

TheDynamo
05-19-2006, 01:01 PM
I started a thread with some tests on a Dell e1505 laptop dual core in the LW Community Thread:

http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51090

This is with a laptop that was purchased for about $933. For comparisons, go to http://www.blanos.com and follow the lightwave benchmark link to the list.

I did make an entry, look for the Pentium M 1.6 Processor with 2 processors and you can see relative comparisons.

-Dyn

Ivan
05-19-2006, 02:18 PM
Student means student discount. You will never be able to buy a Mac as cheap again unless you join the military... PCs are cheap in comparison. You can get a PC for $250 (you should be able to save that much by using your student discount if you by a powerful Mac) and use a KVM switch to go back and forth. Even if it's not that fast you have it and can retask it when you start making more money. I know a business that still runs a 486 to keep their books. I don't know why except that it works.

Good luck.

Ivan

iDV8
05-20-2006, 01:47 PM
PCs are cheap in comparison.
Ivan

That brings up another question I've had. By the time you get a PC up to a comparable MAC is the price difference worth it?

Years ago this was an emotional trigger for my film professor. He would always exclaim they are not more expensive! He was more of an artist than a mathematician though.

Captain Obvious
05-20-2006, 09:01 PM
The whole "Macs are more expensive" is mostly just a myth, depending on what kind of computer you're looking for. Let's take the top end as an example: the quad Power Mac is NOT more expensive than a comparable PC workstation. In fact, compared to about equal computers from other OEMs, it's fairly cheap for what you get.

I recently priced out a fairly mid-end tower, with an Athlon64 X2. With about equal parts as the 20" iMac, including the 20" display, it came in at about $50 less than the iMac.

However, the low-end Power Macs are really expensive.

lots
05-24-2006, 09:51 AM
32bit Windows Vista does not support EFI. Doesn't really matter though, as Bootcamp solves the problem of running Windows on Intel based Macs.

As far as hardware goes, the new macs (based on Intel) do not differ very much from any other Windows based comptuers runing the same hardware. Now that both Windows and OSX run on identical machines (to a degree anyway :P) the question really comes down to "Do you want Windows or do you want OSX?" As that is the biggest difference between an Apple and a Windows PC these days.

Ivan
05-24-2006, 11:30 AM
I guess I should clarify what I meant by PCs are cheaper. High end PCs and Macs will run about the same but an adequate PC can be purchased for $250 if you look around. You will not get a Mac for that. You can get a PC laptop for $400 if you watch for them. These are not the most powerful but they will help you decide which system you prefer. If you are basing your purchase on which is faster, there are benchmarks posted.

Ivan

Steve Reeves
05-27-2006, 06:40 AM
iDV8,

If you can get hold of the latest copy of PCPro (published by Dennis Publishing I think here in the UK) it is headlining Vista vs. Tiger with respect to 8 crucial areas for users. Useability, security and so on. (they are testing Vista release beta 2 against Tiger (latest).)

PCPro is a well respected magazine and I generally follow their reviews and advice for urchasing stuff. My PC is made up of 90% PCPro A listed items.

I don't have it to hand at the moment and I haven't read the article yet but this might be useful. If so drop me a line privately and I can give you a synopsis of the overall verdict. I won't have PC access again until Tuesday now though so don't think I am ignoring you.

cheers

Captain Obvious
05-27-2006, 09:16 AM
I guess I should clarify what I meant by PCs are cheaper. High end PCs and Macs will run about the same but an adequate PC can be purchased for $250 if you look around. You will not get a Mac for that. You can get a PC laptop for $400 if you watch for them. These are not the most powerful but they will help you decide which system you prefer. If you are basing your purchase on which is faster, there are benchmarks posted.

Ivan
Adequate for what? Certainly not adequate for 3D work. Maybe for checking your email, I guess, but that's probably about it.