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adrian
05-16-2006, 02:13 AM
Hi all,

I have encountered a real problem in that LW refuses to render my scene. It complains of not having enough memory, even though I'm running a P4 with 1gig RAM and a 128mb Nvidia graphics card.

All my scene consists of is my object (which is about 350k polys), a planar (for a floor surface), an .hdr image and that's it. I was hoping to do a radiosity render.

My object has numerous (over 30) individual UV maps. Without textures my object renders fine - and my machine has no problem handling it at all (ie it loads very quickly). With textures, the object takes 10 minutes to load and my whole system just slows down to a standstill. This is with only LW layout running - and my antivirus (Norton) software disabled.

Below are the steps that I have gone through to try to get around this problem:

1) Loaded up my original scene - upon pressing F9 I get the error message "not enough memory to sort arrays" - and that would be that. No render, no nothing.

2) Reduced each texture map from a size of 2000x2000 to 600x600 (file sizes reduced from 300k to 50k each). Split up my object into 5 parts. Object and scene now load much quicker. When pressing F9 the render starts... however 20 minutes into the render I get a "you are running low on virtual memory"... the render seems to continue.

However once the render is complete (10.5 hours later), some of the textures have not been rendered and no picture appears so I am unable to save the rendered image anyway (in other words only the preview window is on the screen, not the 1024x768 image that should have appeared).

I suppose the obvious answer is to upgrade my memory - but surely with a gig of RAM this should be more than enough???!! Anyway it's not an option because I don't have the money to upgrade.

So what alternatives do I have? I've heard of "render passes" - could this technique be utilized here? How would I go about it?

I am so annoyed about this because I've been working on this project for months, only for this to happen now. :stumped:

Any advice would be gratefully received :)

ViolentCaustics
05-16-2006, 08:04 AM
hmmm, off the top of my head I'd say to max out your segment memory limit (under the camera properties panel) and see if that helps any. Also, you have virtual memory on your computer that you can adjust. In Win XP you can go to Control Panel -----> Performance and Maintenance ----------> System --------> Advanced Tab and then you can change your virtual memory there. The default is usually set too low for this kind of work. I'd take whatever your default is and multiply it by a factor of four. Hopefully that'll help you out. If that doesn't work try adjusting your multithreading settings and if that still doesn't help you out maybe you could try playing around with your directory structure. I know sometimes I'll have trouble rendering if I use an image map out of the default LW content directory with all of my other content coming from my own directory on another drive partition. Hope that helps.

adrian
05-16-2006, 09:19 AM
Thanks for the reply. However:

1) My content is all in one directory
2) I upped my virtual memory although off hand I can't remember what I upped it to although I did whack it up quite a bit.

You mention multi-threading settings. What is this, what's it for and what settings would you recommend? Oh, and where do I go to change them?

One thing I have noticed on my system is that there are a gazillion processes running in the background (even when no programs are running) although the CPU usage is minimal. I wonder if this might be contributing to the problem (I'm running XP Home edition btw).

cobaltman
05-16-2006, 11:19 AM
I'm also wanting to know how to multi-thread. How's that done, anyway? I can't figure that out.

Also will increased virtual RAM help cloning in modeler? I have a thread about this in this forum elsewhere, and I could use help.

Bushmsn
05-16-2006, 12:08 PM
Hello

The multi thread pull down is located in the render options panel ,adjust the settings up to 2 then 4 and 6 threads until the render is faster. When you select too many treads the time will slow down again. When this happens go back to you last setting that gave you the proformance. Also there are thing s that slow down you computer if you search optimizing windows there are some programs that can be turned off. There are also some that help with the start up time up you computer.

ViolentCaustics
05-16-2006, 02:41 PM
^^^
Pretty much all that needs to be said about multi-threading.

Did you adjust your segment memory limit? It defaults in LW to something really low like 32 mb. Mine is set at 2000 and that speeds up render times. Also, depending on what processes your computer has running in the background that could really slow you down. Maybe if you have a bunch of spam utitlities running you could clean that stuff off. Although if your problem is with Windows and not LW it could be a million different things.

RedBull
05-16-2006, 02:47 PM
In task manager how much physical ram is free?
How much Pagefile is used?

Don't disable Norton Anti-Virus, REMOVE IT!!!!!!!!!
Norton's and symantec software IS A VIRUS!
It is known as BLOATWARE, it stuff so much crap to drag your system down.
Optimize windows, and the services that are running...

30 UV maps, one of the advantages of UV's is the ability to combine
maps to save memory.... Try reducing the amount of maps...

"W" in Layout will tell you how much free memory it has....
Have you used FPrime at all in the scene?



Did you adjust your segment memory limit? It defaults in LW to something really low like 32 mb. Mine is set at 2000 and that speeds up render times. Also, depending on what processes your computer has running in the background that could really slow you down. Maybe if you have a bunch of spam utitlities running you could clean that stuff off. Although if your problem is with Windows and not LW it could be a million different things.

If anything he should be lowering his segment memory, Dividing the buffer into segments will use less memory to render....
Having your segment to 2000, would do nothing benefical at all......

adrian
05-16-2006, 02:49 PM
Yeah I had set up my segment memory limit to 512; however I've now set it up to 2000 like you.

As it's a virtual memory problem I'm getting I don't know how much (if any) difference this will make but we'll see.

Thanks for all the replies :thumbsup:

adrian
05-17-2006, 03:23 AM
I haven't used FPrime so no, that hasn't been used.

Without LW running there is around 694260k of Physical memory; whilst the scene is loading up there is just 3184k left. The CPU usage is only 4% but the PF usage (is that PageFile?) is 1.29gb.

Once it's loaded there is 121844k left; 1.63Gb PF usage, 86212k of System cache - and a total of 46 processes running.

In Control Panel my memory settings are as follows: 1532mb virtual memory, memory usage is set to "programs" rather than "system cache".

How do I combine all of my UV maps?

Whilst I would love to uninstall Norton, this is also my Internet machine so I just don't want to take the risk by running without it.

BeeVee
05-17-2006, 03:40 AM
Hi Adrian,

Although I didn't say in my reply to your email, there are good, free alternatives to Norton that get in the way less. I can honestly say that it causes more problems than it solves when LightWave is also in the equation.

B

mrunion
05-17-2006, 06:26 AM
Agreed, BeeVee.

Try Grisoft's AVG Free. I'd show Norton the door if I were you -- LightWave or not!

http://www.grisoft.com/doc/289/lng/us/tpl/tpl01

toby
05-17-2006, 12:38 PM
Yeah I had set up my segment memory limit to 512; however I've now set it up to 2000 like you.

As it's a virtual memory problem I'm getting I don't know how much (if any) difference this will make but we'll see.

Thanks for all the replies :thumbsup:
No you want it lower than 512. This is not a case telling LW to use 512mb ram or 2000. It's telling it how much to use all at once, and you clearly don't have enough to do it all at once. Lower it until the "Segments" line directly below the button says '2'. If you still don't have enough to render, lower it some more. Try it at 48 for starters.

You might also be able to solve this with the image format type and/or using 8 bit images. Convert your textures to PNGs, and see how they look in Photoshop in 8 bit color. A lot of image maps look no different, and an 8 bit image will take 1/3 as much memory as 24 bit. And don't use JPGs, they cause some instability.

ViolentCaustics
05-17-2006, 04:33 PM
Yeah I had set up my segment memory limit to 512; however I've now set it up to 2000 like you.

As it's a virtual memory problem I'm getting I don't know how much (if any) difference this will make but we'll see.

Thanks for all the replies

oops, my bad. I thought you had 2 gb of ram. I typically put my segment memory limit to a hair below whatever physical memory that I have. So, 1000 might be a good number for you. That will insure that it will render in one segment and is good for speeding up renders. If it's crashing upon render, though, you might want to lower your limit down to split the number of segments to conserve memory, as someone suggested.

adrian
05-22-2006, 09:41 AM
Thanks for the PM Ben (and the .pdf).... I will use PNG for my images instead of JPEG and see if that helps.

A real bugger about Norton... and I've only just renewed my subscription for a year's update :thumbsdow

adrian
05-25-2006, 03:18 AM
An update: I changed all my image maps from JPG to PNG format and everything rendered fine :D

I think the render time might be a bit quicker too but as I did an F10 instead of an F9 I'm not sure (but it doesn't matter either way, the most important thing is it renders now).

I didn't change any of my other settings so from now on PNG rules - it seems LW doesn't handle JPG images very well (thanks for the PDF explaining it Ben).

adrian
05-31-2006, 02:05 AM
I have attached a PDF file that Ben Vost (of Newtek-Europe fame) sent me which explains in great detail how images work within LightWave. For instance I didn't know that even if you had a small-sized JPG file on your harddrive, if that same file is loaded into LW it will still take up a lot of memory.

Definately recommended reading :)

adrian
06-01-2006, 01:41 AM
updated version: