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View Full Version : Where is everyone getting thier dual processor 64bit?



Intuition
05-15-2006, 12:23 PM
I am shopping around to get a new 64bit system.

All the 64bit stuff I have used is single processor dual core. What I am looking for is a setup that comes dual processor with dual core in each processor.

When I shop around the web at the usual spots I can only seem to find single processor motherboards.

I always find the Dual SLI boards which give you the dual graphic card setup but I want real processing power.

Any info pointing me towards these systems will be appreciated. I really want to push the new features coming up in 9.

:D

mattclary
05-15-2006, 12:28 PM
They are considered server boards. I know Newegg has them listed seperately from "regular" motherboards. If you want a pre-built system, Boxx is probably your best bet.

Red_Oddity
05-15-2006, 12:35 PM
Tyan does some very wicked Mobos
http://www.tyan.com/products/html/opteron.html

(Quad Dual core setup with 64Gig memory anyone?)

geothefaust
05-15-2006, 05:18 PM
Tyan does some very wicked Mobos
http://www.tyan.com/products/html/opteron.html

(Quad Dual core setup with 64Gig memory anyone?)


*drools*

If only I could afford it. That would be soooo nice!

nolan
05-15-2006, 06:05 PM
The Tyan Thunder K8WE is a good motherboard to build a system around. I'm very happy with mine.

------------------------------
K8WE Motherboard
Dual Opteron, dual core AMD 280
8 gig ram
Dual nVidea 7600GT, SLI

stevecullum
05-16-2006, 06:12 PM
I've recently just finished building a quad core Tyan system and its very stable. I choose the 2877 chipset as I don't need SLI gfx. It does support them, but only at 4x. If you want the full monty I think the 2895 is the one to go for.

Intuition
05-17-2006, 12:30 AM
Ok, I think I will see what kind of specs I can get with Tyan, thanks.

I looked at Boxx but they are around $5000k. Will the Tyan systems run about the same?

I was thinking of a $3000-ish price range.

In 2004 I paid $4500 a piece for 2 computers that were the 3.2GHZ proc with 4GB ram. Withion 3 Months they were about half the price. So I am going to be a bit more careful with spending this time.

Is it realistic to want to keep it around $3000 for a dual processor, each with a dual core, based system and have 4GB ram?

Or does the RAM cost make that hard to configure for under $3000?

The 4GB ram was about $2000 of the $4500 a piece computer setups I got two years ago.

DiedonD
05-17-2006, 01:16 AM
Your buying a 64bit processor so as you can then install WIndows 64 and alas Lightwave 64, I presume. But its been harder in finding drivers for sounds for 64 bit system. Even the LW dongle needed special drivers for LW64.

Furthermore some plug-ins like Saslite, and win*** something that enables to apply texture from photoshop, couldnt be found via LW64 (at least thats what happened to me). Did you had any such problems?

It seems its more troublesom to have a LW64. So are you sure you want to go ahead with it.

Its a pricy motherboard. I have the Deluxe P5 LDR or soemthing only for 300$.

Just thought you should consider.

stevecullum
05-17-2006, 04:28 AM
Is it realistic to want to keep it around $3000 for a dual processor, each with a dual core, based system and have 4GB ram?

Its possible. I had to build it myself to keep within my budget of 1800, which I think is about the same. But then I live in an over inflated UK computer prices zone!

But I built 2x Dual Processor/Dual core with 4GB and 6800 Ultra, and its cost just over 1500 with an Antec case and 580 watt PSU. I got a local computer expert to build the system for me, which cost 75, but overall I saved a alot sourcing the componenets I needed and doing things this way.

I'm running LW 32 on XP64 and its runs perfect.

Red_Oddity
05-17-2006, 05:37 AM
Dual Quad Opteron (260) with 4 Gig memory and Tyan mobo and some other stuff (HDD, EPS PSU, Geforce 6800 Ultra) can be bought for a price somewhere around 2000-2200 euros...so that's not THAT expensive (my single processor P4 system with 1.5 GB mem and Quadro 980XGL cost 1600 euros 2 years ago)

mattclary
05-17-2006, 06:18 AM
Intuition, go to www.newegg.com and start adding items to a wishlist. You can save the wishlist and design your system one piece at a time. It will show you the running total, you can add and remove components as needed.

I think it is VERY doable for $3000 as long as you don't go for the top-of-the-line processor. They get stupid expensive near the top for a marginal payoff.


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813151158 334.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103552 499.00 x2 = 998.00

334.99 + 998.00 = 1332.99

Leaves you with about $1700 to spend, which is more than I spent on my whole system (4200+ X2, 2gb RAM, 7600GT, 19" Samsung LCD)

StereoMike
05-17-2006, 06:45 AM
I ordered this today:

Alu workstation tower, silent cooling, 600w
Tyan mobo
4 gb RAM
2 Opteron 270
NEC 4571 DVD burner
3 WD 2500jd (1 as system hd, rest as raid 1 data hd)
win x64
36 months warranty on all parts/system
Everything installed and ready to go.
They even prepare the system with their own 6800 (it will be delivered without graphics card), so I just need to plug my 6800 in, drivers already installed.

Price 2250 EUR + VAT (but i get VAT back, so it doesn't add to the costs)

I had a look around for prices before, so here are some cheap parts I found before I decided to buy a system and not to build it by myself:

DiedonD
05-17-2006, 08:26 AM
Dual Quad Opteron (260) with 4 Gig memory and Tyan mobo and some other stuff (HDD, EPS PSU, Geforce 6800 Ultra) can be bought for a price somewhere around 2000-2200 euros...so that's not THAT expensive (my single processor P4 system with 1.5 GB mem and Quadro 980XGL cost 1600 euros 2 years ago)

I too have roughly the same price with P5 system and NVIDIA 7900 vith 512 MB abd 1 gb of ram. But when you intsll Lightwave 64 on a XP64 first thing that gets on the way is the drivers for the dongle. Appart from that LW64 cant seem to find ordinary plug0ins like Saslite and win..., cant remember this one, but its needed when adding a texture from photoshop.

I thought Intuition is buying a 64bit processor specifically so he can install LW64 on an XP 64 system. If that were his intentions, and having minor flaws on a LW64, it kinda doesnt sounds cost effective. But I guess he wants to run a LW32 version just like the rest of us. Well then Intuition it all sounds very powerfull, "go, shoot, ship" where my exact words when ordered NVIDIA 7900 :)

By the way...Does anyone uses LW64 at all?

frantbk
05-17-2006, 10:49 AM
I am shopping around to get a new 64bit system.

All the 64bit stuff I have used is single processor dual core. What I am looking for is a setup that comes dual processor with dual core in each processor.

When I shop around the web at the usual spots I can only seem to find single processor motherboards.

I always find the Dual SLI boards which give you the dual graphic card setup but I want real processing power.

Any info pointing me towards these systems will be appreciated. I really want to push the new features coming up in 9.

:D

Well first you have to know what to look for. If you are an Intel person then you are looking at Xeon chips with two slot Xeon motherboards. Also you need to know the chipset that supports dual core chips on Intel. ATACOM, ZipZoomFly, Next International, MonarchComputers sell Intel Xeon dual-core chips and motherboards.

If you are a AMD almost all of the dual slot motherboards support dual-core chips with a bios upgrade. For dual-core, dual chip you start with the Operton 200 series. The 100 series doesn't support dual slot motherboards, and for those that do know how to use the 100 series on a dual slot motherboard the chip warrenty is void once you do it.

My suggestion is that you go with a pre-built like the boxx system.

Limbus
05-17-2006, 11:13 AM
If you are looking for parts you might want to check out www.2cpu.com and their forums. You will get some good advice there.

Florian

Intuition
05-17-2006, 11:29 AM
I too have roughly the same price with P5 system and NVIDIA 7900 vith 512 MB abd 1 gb of ram. But when you intsll Lightwave 64 on a XP64 first thing that gets on the way is the drivers for the dongle. Appart from that LW64 cant seem to find ordinary plug0ins like Saslite and win..., cant remember this one, but its needed when adding a texture from photoshop.

I thought Intuition is buying a 64bit processor specifically so he can install LW64 on an XP 64 system. If that were his intentions, and having minor flaws on a LW64, it kinda doesnt sounds cost effective. But I guess he wants to run a LW32 version just like the rest of us. Well then Intuition it all sounds very powerfull, "go, shoot, ship" where my exact words when ordered NVIDIA 7900 :)

By the way...Does anyone uses LW64 at all?

We have it (LW64) running smoothly here at EdenFX. But, there may be a reason for that since the version we are using is protected by an NDA, good news is that its stable and running smoothly. ;)

These systems are built by a company called American Computers. What I was trying to do was spec one myself and see if I can get cheaper pricing then they have. It looks to be around the same prices though.

I knew everything there was to know about 32bit and now I am trying to see what will stay and what will go when 64bit systems become the standard.

This reminds me of the time when we were all switching from Win.31 (16bit) to Win95 (32). I remember the driver nightmares and compatibility issues. I am trying to avoid that now while alos getting something nice that wont prove useless when *said new feature here* makes it so I can't run new software.

I am trying to get 64bit LW working. More specifically, trying to tailor the computer for the next 64bit version of Lightwave when it is finished.

I'll check NewEgg as well...:thumbsup:

Intuition
05-17-2006, 12:17 PM
Oh, BTW I keep seeing socket 939 and socket 940. What is better? They both seem to fit high speed AMD procs.

mattclary
05-17-2006, 12:27 PM
For dual CPUs you need socket 940.

I am surprised your pricing comes out near the same for a pre-built system. Usually for high-end hardware it's cheaper to roll your own. If you can get a whole system for near the same price, I would go that route.

Actually I wouldn't, but I think it is a good route for most people. ;)

Intuition
05-17-2006, 12:33 PM
Ok, thats good to know. I am speccing at NewEgg with Tyan

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813151149

frantbk
05-17-2006, 12:52 PM
Ok, thats good to know. I am speccing at NewEgg with Tyan

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813151149

Seeing that this is the 5th month of the year and quad core units are suppose to be released at the end of this year. You might want to lease a unit and wait. Why invest in a new dual core system when quad is almost here. Tyan already has announced that they are working on quad slot and octagon slot motherboard's for quad core cpus. If you lease for 6-7 months you can then dump the dual core system and jump into the quad core, but if you buy a dual core now then you have to work down the cost before you can jump into the quad core systems. Just a thought.

Intuition
05-17-2006, 02:54 PM
I've considered looking at quad core but that will put me up alot more $$$ then I may want to do just to really justify having the quad core.

To get the procs and the ram outfitted enough to really make the system scream I would probably be investing alot more the $5000k. I think I will wait to see the quad setups become more common before I jump in. Dual Procs with dual core is what I am aiming at for the time being.

frantbk
05-17-2006, 03:51 PM
I've considered looking at quad core but that will put me up alot more $$$ then I may want to do just to really justify having the quad core.

To get the procs and the ram outfitted enough to really make the system scream I would probably be investing alot more the $5000k. I think I will wait to see the quad setups become more common before I jump in. Dual Procs with dual core is what I am aiming at for the time being.

Seeing that quad cores have yet to hit the market I'm not sure where the alot more $$$ is coming from? Usually the price of the cpus drop when a new processor is release. Unless you're talking about Xeon MP series chips. Time will tell the story. If you're happy with dual core, dual slot systems then that 's all that matters. Good luck with your system.

zapper1998
05-17-2006, 05:15 PM
My 64bit machine is a SCREAMER with the LW_9 Beta 64bit, Because the NDA, I can say that it runs reallllllllllllllllllllllll smoothhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh on the 64bit Platform....

Michael

Machine specs below in my signature.....:newtek: :thumbsup:

Intuition
05-17-2006, 05:21 PM
Seeing that quad cores have yet to hit the market I'm not sure where the alot more $$$ is coming from? Usually the price of the cpus drop when a new processor is release. Unless you're talking about Xeon MP series chips. Time will tell the story. If you're happy with dual core, dual slot systems then that 's all that matters. Good luck with your system.

Coming from a "New stuff is more expensive" expectation.

Since the quad procs will be new and because new is more $$$pricey then I imagine the current procs price x 4. That where I get my more $$$ from.

;)

Red_Oddity
05-18-2006, 05:21 PM
The way we compute the amount we spend on a system depends on a couple of things (which is mostly to check the rendering power of new renderfarm equipment).

We make sure that we check what the price/rendertime rate is (of the new system and the old system), which works a little like this:

We check what rendering power we have with our current system, say, a Pentium 4 3.0Ghz render machine which costs new about 600 euros renders a benchmark in 15 minutes.
We check what rendering power the new system will have (by checking various trustworthy benchmarks done by others), say, a dual Opteron 265 render machine which costs somewhere around 1300 euros, will render the same benchmark in 3 minutes.
Then we check what the rendering power of our old system is when spending the same amount(so, how much rendering power would a 1500 euro Pentium 4 setup cost), which would be 1300 / 600 = 2.16 (which offcourse is impossible to buy, you can't buy 2 and something computers, but let's not nittpick here), that would result in a rendering power of 15 minutes / 2.16 = 6.92 minutes.
SO, that means the new system is 6.92 minutes (old 1300 euro setup) / 5 minutes (new 1300 euro setup) = 1.384 times faster than the old system.

Now here's the fun part, now you can figure out the most 'cost versus rendering power' efficient system.
You can do this by checking the same formula with all other possible setups.

For example, we can check whether a dual dual-core system delivers more renderpower for our money
Dual dual Opteron 265 system costs 1800 euros, renders the benchmark in 2.5 minutes
P4 system worth 1800 euros will render the benchmark in 15 / (1800 / 600) = 5 minutes.
Meaning that a dual dual Opteron 265 system is actually 5 / 2.5 = 2 times faster than the old system.

Now, by checking even more we can see that when going for the more expensive systems (say Opteron 285 systems) the price goes up exponentially while the actual renderingpower doesn't, meaning they are not worth the trade off (offcourse, when used as workstations, they'll probably blow your socks off.)
A dual dual-Opteron 285 system renders the same benchmark in 1.67 minutes, and costs a staggering 3400 euros, meaning it will render 1.58 times faster than the old system, because : (15 / (3400 / 600) ) / 1.67 = (15 / 5.67) / 1.67 = 2.65 / 1.67 = 1.58.

Offcourse, if you use shaky benchmark results, it will give a very very skewed image of the new systems rendering power, so know your resources.

stevecullum
05-18-2006, 05:53 PM
So what you saying Red Ottidy is dual 265 system offers a better bang per buck than a dual 285?

If it is, then my maths were right and I went for the correct choice. I would recommend a dual 265 to others on that basis.

Red_Oddity
05-19-2006, 07:31 AM
When compared to our older systems, and with the amount of money we where willing to pay, yes, best bang for buck.
We are willing to cough up enough money to double our render farm's rendering power, but that would be by buying new P4 systems, when buying Opteron 265 systems we actually double that renderpower again, meaning we actually triple our farm's rendering power.

The only thing i'm still trying to figure out is, why on earth are these Opterons so gorram powerfull? I keep thinking there's got to be a pitfal somewhere.

Ron
05-25-2006, 12:33 AM
Check out XI and Polywell, they put together reasonably priced systems.

http://www.xicomputer.com
http://www.polywell.com

Intuition
05-25-2006, 12:19 PM
Checking, thanks Ron. I have configured many setups but am still shopping. Trying to see what will be the best value/performance.

Ron
05-25-2006, 01:52 PM
No problem.......their cases aren't too spectacular, but they do provide a pretty good bang for the buck.

good luck

zonezapper
05-30-2006, 03:48 PM
I'm looking around for the same thing too... more or less... I found a dual core dual chip under $3,000 here:
http://www.jncs.com/php/sys/index.php?id=tyan-2895-ws
They also have a twin dual Xeon system at Safe Harbor
http://www.sharbor.com look under Workstations
for about $3,000 after you subtract the LW3D v.9 that's pre-installed. I think they should give you the upgrade price if you have an existing copy.

There's also some twin dual core Xeon machines at Dell.

lots
05-30-2006, 06:38 PM
Another post in this thread stated issues with 64bit Windows and Lightwave. I have experienced none both with 8.5 and beta builds (out side the expected "beta" problems :P) of 9. _ALL_ my hardware works, sound, video, motherboard, network, etc. In fact, most people post that 64bit has lacking driver support, but if you choose your hardware the right way, you have nothing to worry about. Its as simple as looking at what drivers each part of the system have available on the manufacturer's web site.

Anyway, looking to the future, there have been some pics of Tyans next Opteron board, probably due out sometime this summer to fall to my best estimate. It will be using the new Socket F for the DDR2 capable Opterons that will be hitting the streets soon. Performance wise I would expect these parts to be roughly similar to whats out there now (s940). However it opens the door for quad core opterons come next year. If that is of any incentive. Then a simple drop in replacement should do the trick. Its not too much waiting. And I figure its the best of both worlds. Also judging by AM2's launch, you can expect prices to be very close to where they are today for the socket 940 systems. Granted the first buyers will probably be buying on a premium, once more retailers ship those products prices will fall rapidly to thier correct spot. Not to mention that DDR2 spec allows for much denser RAM modules, you can fit a whole lot of memory on the new socket ;) Take the AM2 Asus board that jsut came out (look at newegg) I believe it takes 8GB of ram with its 4 memory slots.

BTW, the version of the K8WE you have in your link seems to be the SCSI version, are you sure you need that? I bought my K8WE for $400. Non-SCSI is cheap ;) Plus you likely do not need a SCSI drive unless you plan on doing any sort of video editing...

Intuition
05-30-2006, 11:07 PM
I think it is VERY doable for $3000 as long as you don't go for the top-of-the-line processor. They get stupid expensive near the top for a marginal payoff.



Hey Matt, after adding up a few systems your dual 270s idea looks really good about now. I was initially looking in the 280s but two of them was like $1700. After I added up everything I was getting into Boxx $$$ territory and if I was spending that kind of cash I'd rather have someone put it together for me.

Now, my question to you is that the reviews of many processers state that it is better to do two single core procs instead of two dual cor procs because of high data traffic causing slowdown and nulifying the proc capability in the dual core dual proc setups. Is this now remedied due to the fact that the HT is now running at 1000mhz?

Is the dual processor/dual core setup now running alot better then dual proc single cores? So many reviews I've read may be dated and they said that the dual proc single cores were rating better in speed. Is this old news? Has the new MOBO tech made it better to do dual proc dual core now?

Whats your take on this Matt?

Or anyone else can chime in as well. ;)

I was basing this on the Supermicro MOBO,

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813182081

Tyan seemded limited in its 1000mhz HT options to single processor.

StereoMike
05-31-2006, 04:26 AM
Do I get you right, you mean two machines with dual single cores would behave better than a dual dual core machine, or you mean "that it is better to do two single core procs instead of two dual cor procs"?
2 cores vs. 4 cores? Obviously the 4 cores will win any rendering benchmark.
I guess it's old news. As I remember, when dualcores hit the street I read alot like "two single cores perform better than one dualcore." Probably you meant this.

I have a Supermicro h8dce with quad cores and it runs very well. You can't oc in the bios, but that's quite ok, it's server technology and meant to stay stable.
I got it last week and I'm up to my ears in work, so I didn't do any benchmarks or tested raising fsb.

Mike

Steve McRae
05-31-2006, 07:27 AM
Is the dual processor/dual core setup now running alot better then dual proc single cores? So many reviews I've read may be dated and they said that the dual proc single cores were rating better in speed. Is this old news? Has the new MOBO tech made it better to do dual proc dual core now?


Hey Intuition,

I recently upgraded my dual system from 2xOpterons 248's to 2x275's. They both have the same GHz (2.2). The 275's support SEE3 and some other features. I did some benchmarks in modo and it is almost twice as fast if not twice as fast on the benchmarks. I am totally glad that I made the switch.

Check out some benchies here:

http://www.vertexmonkey.com/benchmark_scene_8Spheres.php

And for some great info on Dual Core dual procs compared to just dual procs check here; this is what sold me:

http://www.techreport.com/reviews/2005q2/opteron-x75/index.x?pg=1