PDA

View Full Version : Record DVD's Live from DV Output using Consumer set top DVD Recorder



Life Talk
05-11-2006, 06:45 AM
I am trying to use the Vt-4 to Record directly to a Philips dvdr3390 set top DVD recorder and I can't get it to work.

I can connect my mini dv camera to the the computer and watch my video pass into it but i cant get the DVD Recorder to detect or realize (however you want to put it) that there is a DV signal coming from the computer's firewire connection. When I plug the camera directly to the DVD Recorder there is no prob. I know I have the correct inputs selected etc. Will a set top consumer DVD Recorder work this way with VT-4 does anyone know? If not why and is there a way around it?

Rich Deustachio
05-11-2006, 07:02 AM
You need to set the output of the VT4 to DV.

Life Talk
05-11-2006, 07:09 AM
I know that the Output has to be set to DV. I can connect my Mini DV camera to the computer and it can view or record what is coming from the computer but the DVD Recorder won't seem to recognize a DV signal coming from the computer

Jim Capillo
05-11-2006, 07:18 AM
Use Y/C out to the recorder. I do it all the time here.

Life Talk
05-11-2006, 08:01 AM
I could just go out Composite but i am trying to keep everything as high a quality as possible. I can't use Svideo because i need to retain my Componant output because of wiring that i have already done and VT doesn't allow y/c and componant and the same time....

Zane Condren
05-11-2006, 08:05 AM
Actually, the composite output will yeild better results then recording DV, remember just because DV is digital does not mean it is higher quality it uses 5:1 compression and 4:1:1 color sampling. The composite output from the VT is completely uncompressed.

billmi
05-11-2006, 08:09 AM
I'm under the impression that to record out to the DV device, the device itself has to be set up to be controlled and accept remote commands, as most camcorders are. I would be surprised if a consumer DVD recorder did, since most are set up to do the controlling of a camera (i.e. be the master in a master/slave configuration.) While it has been asked about a number of times in the forum, I haven't seen any posts about successfully recording to a consumer DVD recorder via firewire.

If the firewire doesn't work, I'd second the Y/C. Unless you aren't using NewTek's cables, you'll just need an s-video to dual BNC splitter cable. BNCs unhook so fast that "rewiring" would be about a 5 second task.

ted
05-11-2006, 11:08 AM
VT doesn't allow y/c and componant and the same time....
What? Maybe I'm just tired and am missing something. We have component in/out AND YC in/out to multiple decks. We dub to Beta, DVD and S-VHS in the same pass.
You can't utilize both on the same output channel of course. But if it's this important and you can't buy a higher end DVD deck, you do still have an option.

Am I missing something? Very possible.

ScorpioProd
05-11-2006, 12:22 PM
Although I do everything I can via firewire, realize, if you send your video via firewire to your DVD deck, it still has to uncompress it and recompress it to MPEG. So it's not like a DV transfer where you aren't losing anything. My point being, you lose less going Y/C for this operation than you would have for a capture or print to DV tape. So, if your deck doesn't accept firewire from VT, you should try Y/C or component if you have it.

Keith Nealy
05-11-2006, 12:25 PM
My Sony DVD recorder will not see the VT dv out either.

Use y/c if you can. I bought my Sony because it will take component in.

In VT preferences you must set VT out to either y/c OR component.

Keith

Jim Capillo
05-11-2006, 01:11 PM
Am I missing something? Very possible.

Probably doesn't have the BOB, Ted......

Life Talk
05-11-2006, 01:40 PM
Keith What sony recorder do you have? I am looking for the cheapest one that has Componant in on it... I have talked to philips and they tried to tell me that i needed to talk to my computer manufacturer because they didn't know anything about what i was talking about.. So i am frustrated. If anyone knows of cheap dvd recorders that have Componant inputs on them please let me know. Thankyou

ted
05-11-2006, 09:16 PM
Probably doesn't have the BOB, Ted......
I firured I missed something. Business has been rockin and I dont' see enough of my bed or my wife!
Gotta pay for all the new HD toys though so I ain't complaining.

Life, I've resigned to the fact that you have to make a few calls sometimes to get all the info you need. Idiots!!!

Have you thought about buying used, e-bay maybe, and moving up to a higher end deck? I know, it's a crapshoot buying used but sometimes it allows you to move up in gear.
Just a thought.

rbartlett
05-12-2006, 01:09 AM
You might need to lift the signals with a distribution amp, but slaving a monitor and a component->Y/C converter ought to be another alternative.

Nothing has been mentioned about the Philips deck's ability to decode a composite video signal? Does it to a good job or is it shimmering away with phase errors?

In the UK, Philips, Thomson and Grundig decks readily have component inputs (albeit RGB via SCART/Peritel/Euroconnector). So it is likely that component is in there somewhere but may not be exposed onto a socket. Japanese kit that serves the Japan market would have a "Dx" connector which is like a modern day SCART. North America seems to be sticking with RCA/phono hookups and YPbPr - which is also available in Europe/Japan but is perhaps less desired. Firewire-DV and HDMI seem to be the latest approaches, but DV has restrictions.

So if it comes down to money, DV transfer to camcorder/deck and then run that into the DVD recorder. Time and wear and tear will be higher, although time is high enough when you are using such a recorder to make more than a handful of duplicates.

Many folks like the Sony DVDirect (although no component presented on the pictures I've seen), VRD-VC20 seems a popular choice in NTSC countries. ~US$260 by mail order and doubles up as a dvd recorder for your laptop via USB2 and trebles up as a (mains tethered) field direct-to-dvd recorder for backups or near immediate deliveries. I'm not sure that I'd hunt down an alternative DVD recorder in this instance. The issue seems to be that the output of component needs to be also made available in Y/C. Does you component monitor loop or convert through? I'm sure you can get a YPbPr->SVIDEO (component->Y/C) adapter quite cheaply if you don't need a distribution amp to isolate the downstream "loads".

One further enquiry and POV to the original poster: Are you taking the resultant DVD back into the PC to remove the Philips flavor from it? Delete the menu/jacket-picture etc? If so, you might want to change your workflow towards using a software DVD authoring tool. They have come along quite a bit and you'll get better overall quality if you ever need much more than an hour on DVD.

Keith Nealy
05-12-2006, 04:37 AM
Life,
I'm not in my studion now but i think is the RX900 and it cost about $500 I think about 6 months ago.

It has compontent in, DV in, etc. It has an internal HD which is really necessary if you want to edit anything. You can do simple A-B erase edits.

quality and ease of use is excellent.

Probably a new model out by now. DV is in only, notout and there is no way to output from the HD except to burn a DVD.

All on all, I am very happy with it.

I do a lot of DVD's the manual rendering way also, but to knock off a quick DVD, I play from the timeline and I'm done.

Keith

Life Talk
05-12-2006, 06:35 AM
Thanks alot Guys for all your help. I think i am just going to go with a sony recorder that has Componant in and be done with it... I found a 500.00 version that looks like it will do the trick...


Michael Bell
LifeTalk Ministeries
Chattanooga TN

PIZAZZ
05-12-2006, 06:53 AM
Thanks alot Guys for all your help. I think i am just going to go with a sony recorder that has Componant in and be done with it... I found a 500.00 version that looks like it will do the trick...


Michael Bell
LifeTalk Ministeries
Chattanooga TN

If you are using the intended DVD recorder for mastering then be aware that Sony, Phillips, and many others besides the higher priced pro units will embed a opening title screen that will displayed before the DVD will play.

I always found this very irritating. I stumbled across a solution. The Toshiba DVD recorders allow you to eliminate the "title" menu so when you put the DVD in a player it just plays. No advertising for Sony, Tivo, or Phillips needed.

I echo that S/Video is perfectly fine in most cases. I will have to look into the Sony with component in. That would be great if I could get rid of the title screen.

Good Luck in your quest.

rbartlett
05-12-2006, 08:05 AM
It is also possible to remove the menu using a ripping tool, with or without recompression depending on what you use. I should feel dishonorable using such terminology publicly, but it seems to be a common doing-word that appears in many a computer or video magazine these days.

Extracting the audio+video without the menu attached can also be handy if you want to re-author without recompression to create a compilation that you can skip through titles on (multi-VTS) using the "track forward >>| " button. fwiw

However, again you wonder if it is worth using a set top box, (DVDR, DVDRAM or HardDisk+DVDR) if you then rework it in your PC.