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View Full Version : Should I purchase the VT 4 or the Matrox system?



pastorbyron
05-05-2006, 02:26 PM
I am a novice, and we are working towards setting up for broadcasting in our church. We are planning to use 3 cameras, JVC GY-DV5000U Professional, we still have to purchase a switcher and what have you. We are starting from the ground up.

I was advised by one person that we should use the Matrox system, we have purchased the computer based upon the specifications at the Matrox web site, but then someone advised that we should use the VT-4 Dreamstation… Can someone be so kind as to give me some input, or forward this email to someone who can give me some direction…

Thanks…
The Novice

billmi
05-05-2006, 02:39 PM
The take a look here for a full description of the VT.

http://www.newtek.com/vt/index.php

The plus of going VT is that it is a full integrated suite, not just an editor. It is capable of handling the switching, 3D animation, CG work, compositing, and editing.

Bill_Evans
05-05-2006, 02:45 PM
I am a novice, and we are working towards setting up for broadcasting in our church. We are planning to use 3 cameras, JVC GY-DV5000U Professional, we still have to purchase a switcher and what have you. We are starting from the ground up.

I was advised by one person that we should use the Matrox system, we have purchased the computer based upon the specifications at the Matrox web site, but then someone advised that we should use the VT-4 Dreamstation… Can someone be so kind as to give me some input, or forward this email to someone who can give me some direction…


Matrox isnt a switcher, the VT4 is with the breakout box. Lots of churchs (including at least 3 here in town) use VT for all there needs, switching, editing, CG, etc. Also if 3 cameras are all you will ever need, Tricaster (another product by Newtek) handles 3 camera switching very well, though it cannot do that up to 24 input switching you can do with a VT4. New version of toaster VT5 was shown at NAB last week, everyone who buys 4 at this time gets a free upgrade to 5 as well as some nice content freebies.
-Bill

Jim Capillo
05-05-2006, 03:09 PM
Go with the VT ....... NO comparison ! :I_Love_Ne

Ahmed
05-05-2006, 08:00 PM
I am a novice, and we are working towards setting up for broadcasting in our church. We are planning to use 3 cameras, JVC GY-DV5000U Professional, we still have to purchase a switcher and what have you. We are starting from the ground up.

I was advised by one person that we should use the Matrox system, we have purchased the computer based upon the specifications at the Matrox web site, but then someone advised that we should use the VT-4 Dreamstation… Can someone be so kind as to give me some input, or forward this email to someone who can give me some direction…

Thanks…
The Novice

Even thought I am a Muslim, we sold many VT to Chuches here in Asia.
Praise the Lord :)

Seriously, it is a no competition. The VT does much more than the Matrox.
Get the right machine, and you will never regret. In fact you may grow to be fond of it... like I am.

ScorpioProd
05-05-2006, 08:16 PM
I'm not clear how anyone would do switching on a Matrox???

They make a switcher???

Get a VT[4], with FREE upgrade to VT[5].:thumbsup:

nevmoor
05-05-2006, 08:37 PM
WE use VT in our church here in Lorain, Ohio. The only things I can say are this:
VT over Matrox hands down for the capabilities!!!
Also, I dont know what your budget is but I would go with the DV550 if you are purchasing new cameras or even wait til the JVC HD250 is available. That will give you the ability to add CCU controls later if that's the direction you are headed.
Just my 2c.
Get the VT, you will not be disappointed.
But then again what would you expect asking this question on a VT forum?!

Ahmed
05-06-2006, 06:40 AM
WE use VT in our church here in Lorain, Ohio. The only things I can say are this:
VT over Matrox hands down for the capabilities!!!
Also, I dont know what your budget is but I would go with the DV550 if you are purchasing new cameras or even wait til the JVC HD250 is available. That will give you the ability to add CCU controls later if that's the direction you are headed.
Just my 2c.
Get the VT, you will not be disappointed.
But then again what would you expect asking this question on a VT forum?!

The Truth :); since it is for the Church. You do not want someone up there to be angry recommending the wrong thing on purpose.

wvp
05-06-2006, 06:56 AM
You will find a large number of Churches using the VT equipment. I would recommed contacting a NT dealer for all the details. One of the keys with buying these systems is working with a dealer, it is the only way you should go.
For your needs, I would give Jef @ Pizazz productions a call - he deals with many, many clients like yourself.
Good luck

Bobt
05-06-2006, 10:30 AM
VT-4 Dreamstation I think is a www.videohardwareservices.com
item.

Bob

PIZAZZ
05-06-2006, 10:31 AM
Thanks for the recommendation Jeff.

Nevmoor ala Steve is one of our clients so he would be a great guy for you to speak with regarding church video and using the VT.

Because you are starting out this will be a great time to purchase the best products to future proof yourself as much as possible. Unless you are going to get a really REALLY good deal on DV5000s then I totally agree with Steve and recommend the JVC HD250 if you can wait for it. Otherwise I would recommend the JVC HD100 or budget allows the Canon H1. The Canon and the HD250 both have HD-SDI out. This output will allow you to grow as we all transition to HD. The DV5000 is a great camera but it will only ever do SD resolution and keep you down at either composite or Y/C-SVideo runs to the switcher. The HD100 can give you HD resolution and Component video out to feed back to a VT system. That will give you a much better image and you get it for about the same money spent.

Some may say... HD in a Church?? what is the point of that? The largest advantage to shooting/projecting in a 16:9 ratio is you can fit more information on your graphic/test slides for music lyric support. Of course, better video resolution benefits all the people watching both in house and outside through outreach ministry.

Big questions would be:
1. What is the goal of putting in a video system?
2. Is the video system strictly for in house IMAG ?
3. Is the video system to be able to broadcast services?
4. IF YES to #3 then what is the delivery format to Cable or the TV stations?
5. IS Webcasting also a goal? Is it going to be webcasted at the same time as the broadcast?


Just some questions you should be asking yourself before you outlay a sum of money on equipment that may or may not fit your needs. Those needs will always change in the future let me assure you. The BEST goal of any system design is to plan and anticipate for those changes the best you can while remaining in the budget.

Contact me directly anytime if I can be of further assistance. Email or phone info is in my profile.

Good luck in your endeavor.

PIZAZZ
05-06-2006, 11:03 AM
Oh and BTW if you need more info and assurance that the VT is up to the task of broadcasting.

KNBC is using a VT system we built for them to produce one of their subchannels. .4 is their NewsRaw program all produced live with a VT. So besides this "little" broadcasting outfit...VT is being used in more churches around the world than any other single production system.

You will not be disappointed with making the VT choice.

Bobt
05-06-2006, 11:32 AM
Guess I forgot to say Jeff is a real stand up guy as well as all the VT dealers
I deal with are as well.

Bob

stubby
05-06-2006, 12:15 PM
Pastor Bryon;

A few recommendations.
If you can, get cameras with CCU's,
they are designed for studio useage
and are much easier to sync and color balance. (JVC DV550)

If you are looking for a live switcher / NLE VT[4/5]
is very difficult to beat in terms of price and performance.

Yet if you are doing most of you work in post production
and record your services to tape using a independent switcher / mixer
Matrox and Adobe offer a very powerful solution.

Adobe Video Collection is an extremely robust software package and when paired with an good editing card it compares quite favorably with the
other big broadcast A's namely Avid and Apple.

It may cost you a little bit more but it is sometimes a very good
idea to get a professional integrator to help setup a media department.
Whatever you do, try to do right from the very beginning. Mistakes
in broadcast equipment can be very expensive.

All the best,

Andy

ted
05-06-2006, 12:32 PM
And one more important thing.
MATROX AS A COMPANY HAS LEFT MANY CUSTOMERS IN THE DARK! (Didn't mean to shout). :D

Matrox has a habit of leaving a product line undeveloped with no upgrade path. :devil: "Oh, sorry, we don't support that product we just sold you last year, but we would love to sell you this new thingy at FULL PRICE"! :thumbsdow
I almost bought into Matrox 9 years ago when I bought my company. Many Matrox products have come and gone with no support or financial upgrade path.

As for NewTek the company.
When you invest in a product, you should also look at the company. NewTek still services cards and BOB's they sold years ago for free. I actually wish they would charge, but hey, that's a huge bonus.

Then there is the product.
Others here have said it well. Hands down, there just isn't another product that can do so much for so little.
It's like the swiss army knife of the video world! (I seem to like products that can handle multiple tasks like the HVX camera).
VT can handle so many tasks, and is EASY to use.

Do your homework as you have done here. I wish you well.

ScorpioProd
05-06-2006, 04:20 PM
That's another thing, the ease of use of VT[4] shouldn't be underestimated, either.

I'm trying to teach a friend how to use some competing NLEs that he has, and it is a pain to teach him those versus how easy teaching VT would be.

Jim Capillo
05-06-2006, 05:09 PM
While all of us are passionate about Newtek and its products, all the testimonials here are more or less true - you will not find a better company to invest in. And another unheralded bonus.... this forum. The Newtek forum contains many folks who are willing to help out in any way they can, and the head design engineer even hangs out here !

Try getting that over at any other manufacturer's forum.....

Cineman
05-06-2006, 08:01 PM
Like others I am mystified about the Matrox for switching, and that when the primary need is for switching? I am also a fiend fan of the TriCaster, and there is nothing in the original post that would prevent that as a solution.

But mostly it is all the references to cameras and the thread post from Ahmed that made me feel that I must post to this thread. I promise that I wouldn't otherwise, Jim. Since my main work is with churches doing IMAG, I feel obligated to post.

The JVC GY-DV5000U cameras won't work with VT, TriCaster, most anything I know of, for IMAG. And yes, as nevmoor says, the JVC 550s will work wonderfully well, with or without the CCUs. I have actually set up a church with the 550 for IMAG.

I'm sorry Jef PIZAZZ, but the JVC HD100, according to the specs, will not work either, and it seems like you would know that. I could not find specs on the JVC HD250 on the JVC site.

Nes Gurley

Zane Condren
05-06-2006, 08:38 PM
Actually the JVC GY-DV5000U and JVC HD100( in SD mode) will work great with the VT for live switching. I recommend using the "Test" output from the GY-DV5000U as it is an uncompressed output from the camera head and not DV compressed from the recording section of the camera. If you have any additional questions please give me a call during the week at 210-370-8204.:vticon:

PIZAZZ
05-06-2006, 09:20 PM
I'm sorry Jef PIZAZZ, but the JVC HD100, according to the specs, will not work either, and it seems like you would know that. I could not find specs on the JVC HD250 on the JVC site.

Nes Gurley


OH NO!!! Nes I didn't know that... I will have to go pull out the 40 some odd HD100s and the 90+ Sony Z1Us I have installed in all those churches now that you say they will not work... I am sorry also Nes but I will stick what I know from experience not just reading the specs. I do not understand why in the world you say those cameras will not work. Also Please do not try to convince someone new to the video world that composite is better to switch with too. There is a reason Component video and SDI came along. The video world wanted better than composite.

We have installed both of these HDV cameras as a substitute for the JVC DV500/550 units. It is pretty nice to have a camera with component 480I output for around $5,000. The next closest component out camera is the DV550 at around $12,000ish depending on lens. This component feed is a perfect match for the VT or upcoming TriCaster Pro unit.

Since the original poster was referencing the DV5000s and their price point, I wanted to suggest him looking into cameras that he could still be using down the road when they go into HD production. It is not a question of "if" to go HD, it is a question of when to go HD.

And Zane I remember that uncompressed composite before the DV compression output on the DV500 but not the DV5000. You could be right on that. I do not know for sure. I know JVC broke it on the 550 but we would use Component off the CCUs anyway.

Keith Gandy
05-07-2006, 12:09 AM
About five years ago we installed our first Video Toaster unit for live production at our church. In the meantime we have brought two more online.

The main reasons that we opted for these packages were mainly due to production/cost value of the package. Our techies find it rather easy to operate. Additionally, the versatility of being able to go to record/closed circuit/internet broadcast, etc. in the background were a very easy sell for us.

We have added cameras as the budget has allowed, but the Toaster package allowed us to enter into the production side at a very early stage, even when composite was the only option. Now that Newtek will be adding HD down the line means that it will not necessarily be outdated as technology advances.

One of the main points that will have to be weighed - the system will only be as good as the technician running it. The Video Toaster can be a tremendous advantage, but it does not run itself. It will required dedicated engineers/production staff to assemble the elements for a live service. They will need have the ability to concentrate and direct the "program".

Most of the guys on this forum bring that to the table, but that is often overlooked when a ministry is putting something together. If your staff is creative, Video Toaster will provide them the hardware required to get where you want to go.

Mediaworx
05-07-2006, 08:32 AM
All I can say is, the VT saved my butt this week. We were doing IMAG for none other than Jeff Foxworthy "in the round". we needed four 10,000 lumen projectors, D/A's, over 1200 ft of component cable, etc. The rental company we got the stuff from was shorthanded because of NAB and didn't send the proper jumper cables from the D/A's to the projectors. Because of the versatility of VT, we were able to alter our signal path and do the show. Without VT we would have lost a great deal of money and our reputation. VT SAVED THE DAY!!!!

I will post a full report of this event, the lessons learned, the importance of a dealer built(Jef Keithley) system, as well as some pics later this week. The story will make your heart jump.

Mick Haensler
Mediaworx

Bobt
05-07-2006, 09:36 AM
Mick Haensler
OT but I love Jeff Foxworthy. I saw him about a year ago. Laughed till I cried.
Jef what sort of delay are you seeing with the IMAG and those JVC's?

Bob