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eidetiken
05-04-2006, 03:37 PM
I talked with someone at NewTek and the excuse given to me for NewTek not having a Universal Binary yet is that NewTek is gearing up for Microsoft Vista.

Well that's fine. But IntelMac is here NOW and has been out for several months.

I think its time for Mac owners to start petitioning NewTek for the Mac systems that are already here. I've also read where NewTek has supposedly been working on transferring the code to Xcode; been working on it for two years?

Bottom line. A Universal Binary version of Lightwave, compiled in Xcode, will work better on both Intel and PPC based computers and in itself eliminate a lot of the program crashes. It will also make it easier for Mac users to write plugins for Lightwave.

Sorry, but dual booting my IntelMac system for another two years into Microsoft Windows so I can run a better running version of Lightwave is not an option. I just bought Lightwave, and starting to have buyers remorse with the response I've gotten from NewTek on the future of Lightwave and Mac OS X.

Petition of Mac OS X Universal Binary
Keith Stephens

dyarza
05-04-2006, 04:08 PM
I'll second that, I just ordered my MacBook Pro 17". That's not a PPC on there...

Captain Obvious
05-04-2006, 04:28 PM
Gearing up for Vista? Wtf? Intel Macs are here NOW. There will be Intel Mac workstations months before Vista is released. And what the heck does "gearing up for Vista" even mean? It's just another version of Windows. It's not all THAT different. None of the new stuff in it is relevant for Lightwave.

Seriously, NewTek, stop with the friggin' excuses already, and tell us how the Xcode version is coming along.

RonGC
05-04-2006, 05:02 PM
I also agree, won't be long and 64 bit IntelMacs will be out, and still no way to use Lw natively, which means no 64bit support.

Last time i looked i pay the same for each upgrade to LW on the Mac as the Wintel side does. And as yet have not recieved a Mac optimized LW, kind of like selling you a Cadillac with a Pinto engine.

My money is supposed to be helping to fund the company towards supporting my current hardware, not a white elephant like Vista.

Discouraging to say the least. It's one thing to be fashionably late to the Party, but missing the party completely is altogether another.

Add me to the petition.

Ron

LSlugger
05-04-2006, 05:58 PM
I talked with someone at NewTek and the excuse given to me for NewTek not having a Universal Binary yet is that NewTek is gearing up for Microsoft Vista.

Who said that, and in what context?

eidetiken
05-04-2006, 06:28 PM
I talked with some fella about my registration and asked if he knew anything about when a Universal Binary would be released for OS X. He complained about how NewTek has to build different versions and mostly about how NewTek has to get ready for Vista and also updating the windows 64 bit code. That's fine, but what about a regular 32 bit OS X Universal Binary? Well, we're gearing up for Vista.

That's the context.

Also note: I was told a couple weeks ago while trying to get the Discovery version installed on my IntelMac, "Get a real PC." and they hung up on me. It though this forum that I was able to get the Discovery version installed and running on my IntelMac. I like the Lightwave interface and purchased a full version of Lightwave with a free upgrade to version 9. I attributed that incident to someone at NewTek having a bad day. Now, I'm beginning to wonder.
Keith

kief
05-04-2006, 08:42 PM
I'll second and third this and so on and so forth. But why should we have to petition????? Isn't this just a given? Does anyone remember how long ago the roadmap was announce for LW on mac including the porting to xcode? still no news.

toby
05-04-2006, 10:17 PM
I talked with some fella about my registration and asked if he knew anything about when a Universal Binary would be released for OS X. He complained about how NewTek has to build different versions and mostly about how NewTek has to get ready for Vista and also updating the windows 64 bit code. That's fine, but what about a regular 32 bit OS X Universal Binary? Well, we're gearing up for Vista.

That's the context.

Also note: I was told a couple weeks ago while trying to get the Discovery version installed on my IntelMac, "Get a real PC." and they hung up on me. It though this forum that I was able to get the Discovery version installed and running on my IntelMac. I like the Lightwave interface and purchased a full version of Lightwave with a free upgrade to version 9. I attributed that incident to someone at NewTek having a bad day. Now, I'm beginning to wonder.
Keith
Sounds like there's still some @$$holes working at Newtek. I think a lot of tech support people don't realize that just because you can think of a reason for a crash doesn't mean it's as good as not crashing. And that just because you enjoy rebooting and reinstalling all the time doesn't mean that Windows is a better system overall.

Anti-Mac PC freaks are far worse than any Ford/Chevy haters I've ever seen. Foaming at the mouth and peeing their pants over a product they never even have to use.

Has it really been 2 years since they started making it Xcode? That's not encouraging, but I try to keep in mind that as it is, LW runs at least as well as it does on PC, renders nearly as fast on slower processors, and they have little reason to make it run a lot better on one platform than the other.

Yacomo
05-05-2006, 02:36 AM
Very disappointing to say the least... :thumbsdow

/signs petition...

/also goes to look for them pitchforks and torches...

mike_stening
05-05-2006, 08:43 AM
sad, very sad.
surely by now people should realise that the mac isn't a secondary platform any longer (was it ever?)

hopefully a revision of v9 will be coming but even stuff like using openGL needs full implentation
add me on.

BazC
05-05-2006, 09:31 AM
I agree this doesn't sound good but I'd reallly like to hear a candid response from Newtek before I get my pitchfork out of the cupboard! :D

kief
05-05-2006, 09:36 AM
BazC, agreed.

Chuck
05-05-2006, 09:55 AM
No one at NewTek's customer services or technical support lines would have any reason to say any such things as asserted here. The staff have not had any comment from the development team whatsoever with regard to Vista. They do know that we're working on the XCode and UB port of LightWave and they know that the Mac is a very important platform for DCC and production. They also know that the Video Team has in fact just completed a port of the iVGA client for TriCaster and VT[4] to the Mac.

As I've mentioned before here on this section, we'll have some concrete news on when to expect the XCode/Universal Binaries release after the team has had a bit of time to catch our breath after v9.0 is released.

Scazzino
05-05-2006, 09:59 AM
Sounds good to me Chuck!
:thumbsup:

Yacomo
05-05-2006, 10:09 AM
/puts away pitchfork

M'kay, but you have been warned!

Fun aside: Thanks for the info, t'was appreciated! :D

BazC
05-05-2006, 10:10 AM
Thanks for the response Chuck! :D

jayroth
05-05-2006, 10:22 AM
I have to reply as well. Chuck said it, but let me reiterate:

No one at NewTek would ever say this. No one believes it. Anyone who might would find themselves dismissed.

After all of the work that we have done with LightWave, rebuilding our team, rebuilding the code, I take such an offense to this I can't even put it into words.

We will support Intel Macs and Universal Binaries this year. We will support Vista. For the last ten or so years, LightWave has been a Windows and Mac product, and I see every reason for that to continue.

That should cover it, don't you think?

Jay Roth
President, 3D Group, NewTek

fabmedia
05-05-2006, 10:28 AM
I know that the Mac side of Lightwave does not have a huge user base, but that doesn't give NT a reason to put us on the backburner. What needs to happen is to get the fire under their seat lit. It's obvious we all love the program and use it on a very regular basis, and we have no real reason to switch after spending years learning to master the program (if we really can). Let's be honest, and just get our buts in gear. The Longhorn has been in development for years and most likely will not meat it's due date and I believe it's a miserable excuse for not brining out a binary enabled version of Lightwave. That being said it sounds to me that Lightwave 9, even though it's supposed to have been rewritten for OS X is still not completely compatable with the basics of the system (built with Xcode). If they did use Xcode, then it would have been done and released already. It's only a matter of minutes to convert it to a binary enabled app.

My 2

amiga2091
05-05-2006, 10:57 AM
I would personally like to know what tech told you this? I am the Technical Support Manager at NewTek and once I get a name I can address this internally. Please e-mail me the name of the tech to [email protected] and this will be handled accordingly.

John

parm
05-05-2006, 11:07 AM
I know that the Mac side of Lightwave does not have a huge user base,

Is that true?

I'd be interested to know what proportion of Lightwave users are on the Mac platform. Given that for a long time. LW was one of the few choices a Mac user had for 3d, my guess would be that the Lightwave/Mac user base is not insignificant. Up to a third perhaps?

Scazzino
05-05-2006, 11:23 AM
Is that true?

I'd be interested to know what proportion of Lightwave users are on the Mac platform. Given that for a long time. LW was one of the few choices a Mac user had for 3d, my guess would be that the Lightwave/Mac user base is not insignificant. Up to a third perhaps?

I don't know any numbers, but the Mac user base of Lightwave seems pretty robust to me. The LW Mac forum seems quite active and I've been using LW on the Mac for years myself and intend to continue to do so. I've been using 3D software on the Mac since before they even did color... Easy3D, Sculpt3D etc... ;-)

As for a Universal binary, NewTek has said MANY times that they are working on it. I'm sure it's no easy task!

I really don't think they deserve ANY criticism about not having a universal binary ready unless they take much longer than most of the other major pre-xcode software apps to go universal binary, such as Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash IDE (not just the player), Microsoft Office, etc.

As a matter of fact, I don't even think that Apple has released universal binaries of all their own software yet... ;)

eidetiken
05-05-2006, 11:53 AM
About time someone from NewTek gave responded. And as far as your assertion that no one would have such cause to give such a response to Mac owners, Chuck you better have a heart to heart talk with your phone people, because this is exactly the response I got from your customer service.

I didn't appreciate the first "Get a real PC." and hang up on me, but I found the help I needed to get the Discovery version up and running from this forum. Not from anyone at NewTek. When I called about my registration and asked about the Mac OS X UB your service guy gave me the whole spill about how you have to make all these different version of Lightwave. He was very adimant on this Vista point, and more excited about the 64 bit Windows version of Lightwave than answering my UB question.

Chuck thanks for the response, ... But as far as "No one at NewTek's customer services or technical support lines would have any reason to say any such things as asserted here." Just shows me that you don't know what's really happening in your own company.

Keith Stephens

PS

A response for Jay Roth, How do you think I feel being told to get a real PC and being hung up on? You take offense? I sent an e-mail to John with my phone number. Jay, why don't you call me and I'll give you an ear full.

amiga2091
05-05-2006, 02:05 PM
When did you e-mail me? I have not gotten it yet.


John

JML
05-05-2006, 02:08 PM
"Just shows me that you don't know what's really happening in your own company. "..
"Jay, why don't you call me and I'll give you an ear full"


with comments like these, I'm not suprised people treated you the way they did.

Chuck
05-05-2006, 02:38 PM
About time someone from NewTek gave responded. And as far as your assertion that no one would have such cause to give such a response to Mac owners, Chuck you better have a heart to heart talk with your phone people, because this is exactly the response I got from your customer service.

I didn't appreciate the first "Get a real PC." and hang up on me, but I found the help I needed to get the Discovery version up and running from this forum. Not from anyone at NewTek. When I called about my registration and asked about the Mac OS X UB your service guy gave me the whole spill about how you have to make all these different version of Lightwave. He was very adimant on this Vista point, and more excited about the 64 bit Windows version of Lightwave than answering my UB question.

Chuck thanks for the response, ... But as far as "No one at NewTek's customer services or technical support lines would have any reason to say any such things as asserted here." Just shows me that you don't know what's really happening in your own company.

Keith Stephens

PS

A response for Jay Roth, How do you think I feel being told to get a real PC and being hung up on? You take offense? I sent an e-mail to John with my phone number. Jay, why don't you call me and I'll give you an ear full.


I know exactly what is going on at this company with our people on the phones because I participate in preparing the information that they are to provide in regard to such questions; so does Jay and so do other executive and marketing staff. I know that the information provided to staff on these topics contains not one word that would lead any of the staff to believe that the comments you attribute would be appropriate to say to any customer under any circumstances. I stand by my comment - no one here would have any reason to say such things.

eidetiken
05-05-2006, 03:07 PM
John,

I just recent the e-mail to [email protected] First e-mail was sent at 12:02 PM

And Chuck, Apparently you know what information is being giving to your staff but not what your staff is actually saying to some of your customers.

And while we're at it lets get back on subject. You've been promising your Mac customers an OS X native version of Lightwave for 2 years. 2 years and you still have nothing show. Wish I had a nice cushy job where I cold take such long breaks between projects.

I'll hash out my beef with your customer service on the phone. But more empty promises is all you have answered with here. You attack me for repeating what your customer service told me and avoid the original question. We don't want no more excuses or hard luck stories. We want to hear some progress.

Keith

Chuck
05-05-2006, 03:53 PM
We want to hear some progress.


Jay did provide progress information - up to today we've never said how soon to expect the XCode and UB port to be complete, and Jay confirmed that it will be delivered this year.

jayroth
05-05-2006, 04:53 PM
I promised Keith that I would re-iterate our position on Mac development, so that we are all on the same page:

We will be delivering a Mac Universal Binary version of LightWave later this year, during the LightWave 9.x development cycle. As it will be part of the 9.x development cycle, this version, when it ships, will be a free upgrade for those customers who own LightWave 9.0. One of the many reasons that LightWave is a great value, in addition to being a powerful program.

Jay Roth
President, 3D Group, NewTek

eidetiken
05-05-2006, 04:57 PM
Thank you Jay, I'm happy now.

Keith

RonGC
05-05-2006, 05:05 PM
Thanks for the info Jay, Chuck.

That was really all us Mac guys wanted was some idea of when UB for Lightwave would be coming out, now we know. It is real easy to get discouraged when your in the dark, LOL.

Keep up the good work on 9 :thumbsup:

Ron

jeremyhardin
05-05-2006, 05:26 PM
hang on. let me pick my jaw up from the floor.

ok. there we go.

great news chuck, jay, and :newtek: ! :thumbsup:

eidetiken
05-05-2006, 06:14 PM
jeremy

Thank you and the other folks for helping me out a few months ago on getting the Discovery version working.

http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48150

I was also told they're going to look for the individual that told me to get a PC back then.

Keith

Captain Obvious
05-06-2006, 05:46 AM
I promised Keith that I would re-iterate our position on Mac development, so that we are all on the same page:

We will be delivering a Mac Universal Binary version of LightWave later this year, during the LightWave 9.x development cycle. As it will be part of the 9.x development cycle, this version, when it ships, will be a free upgrade for those customers who own LightWave 9.0. One of the many reasons that LightWave is a great value, in addition to being a powerful program.

Jay Roth
President, 3D Group, NewTek
That's what I wanted to hear. :thumbsup:

paul summers
05-06-2006, 11:18 AM
Yes,yes,yes,yes, super new's

kief
05-06-2006, 12:13 PM
this year! very exciting news! it hopefully will be just in time for me to get an intel mac!

Ade
05-07-2006, 07:10 PM
Lol...

Kuzey
05-08-2006, 03:33 AM
I know that the Mac side of Lightwave does not have a huge user base

I do believe at one stage Mac versions were out selling the PC counter parts.

As for the other news...that is most welcomed and maybe newtek should add it to the front page etc.

:thumbsup:

Kuzey

Captain Obvious
05-08-2006, 05:24 AM
I've heard that Lightwave's Mac user base is in the 30-40% area. This makes sense, because that's how it usually is. Both Cinema 4D and modo are about 40% Mac, and I've heard that Photoshop is up around 30% as well.

Mac is not "the other platform" for 3D graphics.

fabmedia
05-09-2006, 03:48 PM
@Kuzy
Really? That's unreal.

@Captin Obvious
I'm pretty sure Photoshop is much higher than the 30% range (I'd base my career on that one). Most design studios are strictly mac based as are print shops. That's a HUGE market. I'd double check your numbers there. If Photoshop was that low, Adobe would have packed in the bag long ago or would have caused a lot of grief. They develop for the Mac platform first and foremost. I've even read somewhere that they were thinking of leaving the PC market alone due to the number of business based windows machines who were not involved in any creativity.

kief
05-09-2006, 03:57 PM
fabmedia,
that was my exact thought, however i didn't have anything to back it up.

Captain Obvious
05-09-2006, 08:51 PM
The 30% number was just something I've heard, I don't know how correct it is.

Kuzey
05-10-2006, 02:02 AM
@Kuzy
Really? That's unreal.


It's one of those useless information that sicks in one's head :stumped:

I think it might have been during the lw6.5/7 cycle and I'm sure there was a crossgrade special offer with Photoshop...saving a good $1500 AUD on LW.

Actually that's when I jumped on the LW bandwagon :D

Kuzey

zapper1998
05-10-2006, 05:20 AM
Well heck, something new to think about...

Everybody Have a GREAT day, Smile the sun is Shinning bright,
and it's a new day.

:)


Michael

prajna
05-10-2006, 06:01 PM
I just want to take the opportunity to applaud Newtek for allowing this frank exchange of views to take place. While things may have gotten heated, I think we all care about the continued development and improvement of Lightwave, and most of all want a usable, competitive, and efficient product. Apparently this was recognized by the moderator and managers, and the discussion did evolve to the point where a commitment was made to release a Universal Binary version of Lightwave this year, which is something to rejoice in.

I urge Newtek to continue to embrace diversity of opinion and viewpoints. While I'm sure it must be difficult to absorb multiple criticisms, I think most of them are not wantonly malicious (although they may not always be the most diplomatically stated), but are oriented towards desiring a more robust application. Please remember, without a loyal (if at times raucous, underappreciative, opinionated, insensitive, etc.) user base, there is nothing. Keeping us informed on a regular basis on progress being made makes us feel included, valued, and respected. By offering critiques that are specific and non-personal, as well as praise where praise is due, and by recognizing all the hard work you are doing to give us the best product possible, hopefully we can continue to build a strong, interdependent community of users and developers.


Peter Elias

riki
05-10-2006, 09:56 PM
Sounds good to me.

hgoldman
06-04-2006, 04:39 PM
wish i was as happy as other responders:
not sure what we should do.

we now have a school lab with 25 copies of LW9 to be used in 3d classes and 25 intel based macs.

would help to know a little more what "later this year" means to plan properly.

thanks for any more info that can be revealed.


does
I promised Keith that I would re-iterate our position on Mac development, so that we are all on the same page:

We will be delivering a Mac Universal Binary version of LightWave later this year, during the LightWave 9.x development cycle. As it will be part of the 9.x development cycle, this version, when it ships, will be a free upgrade for those customers who own LightWave 9.0. One of the many reasons that LightWave is a great value, in addition to being a powerful program.

Jay Roth
President, 3D Group, NewTek

Sarford
06-04-2006, 07:37 PM
Don't know if you know this already or not but Lightwave does run on Intel mac's (albeit LW8), its just not very fast...

hgoldman
06-05-2006, 09:49 AM
thanks,

i had heard it was so slow as to be considered useless.
have you had other experiences?

h

royL
06-14-2006, 09:25 AM
I have been running LW on a PowerBook G4 500 mhz 512mb, and now that I got my new MacBookPro 2 Ghz I've ran my own benchmarks with radiosity, not very complex but a scene that took 3 hours to render with the G4 took only 3 minutes on the Mac Intel.

Maybe if I had been using a G5 tower and then switched to the Mac Intel I could find it anoying, but in my case I don't have any complains.

I'll post the Scene spects that I used later

Morgan2
06-15-2006, 07:06 PM
Thanks for keeping up with LightWave through the Intel transition! I've been out of the LightWave loop and it's nice to see that good news.

I'll be getting an Intel Mac this summer, Conroe or Woodcrest, and I'm sure Rosetta will be acceptable until LW 9 is universal. I don't render long sequences of frames or work with high polycounts much.