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omeone
05-04-2006, 12:38 AM
Hello again :)

2 more videos:

3. Character Rigging for IK boost (http://ikboost.com/learn/video-tutorial-introduction-to-ik-boost-part-3-character-rigging/)

4. IK Boost RIG sharing / swapping for characters (http://ikboost.com/learn/video-tutorial-introduction-to-ik-boost-part-4-rig-sharing/)

And, as you'll see, a new site dedicated to focussing on IK Boost in isolation. From now forward, I'll post all my tutorials/progress/RIGs/etc there.

Rather than start a new thread everytime I add something over there, I'll just reply to this thread... so

subscribe to this thread for notifications (http://www.newtek.com/forums/subscription.php?do=addsubscription&t=50403)
-or-
subscribe to the ikboost.com Newsfeed (http://ikboost.com/feed/)

that's all for now, cheers ~CL :)

p.s. please dont sue me newtek, I had registered the domain name before I thought properly about it, and will get a new one straight away if you want!

Dodgy
05-04-2006, 02:51 AM
Cool, this'll help a lot of people :)

omeone
05-04-2006, 03:06 AM
me too hopefully! :)

Dodgy, you're the only person who has told me they use IKB... would it be too cheeky to ask for something to share? I know and realise alot of your stuff would have all kinds of copyright restrictions - so no offence taken if you have to say no.

t4d
05-04-2006, 03:48 AM
I must say I have gone on record as not liking IKB for characters work very much :thumbsdow
but other things yes i think IKB is pretty cool :)

tho you would have spent much more time using IKB then I have so
I'm looking forward to watching your video's and seeing what you methods are:beerchug:
I'm sure once i watch them i'll have afew questions for you:bowdown:

I think the site should be Fine, Newtek should even give you a hand for helping to push one of it least known about features :thumbsup:

Hope this isn't breaking the NDA lw9 too far
( should i ask this in the beta forum ? )
anyway has much changed from LW 8.5 IKB to Lw 9 IKB ?:stumped:

omeone
05-04-2006, 03:58 AM
it really is a different philosophy from anything character based before and does take getting used to.

Ironically, the more accomplished an ingrained in LW's current IK someone is - the harder it is to adjust to the IKB way.

All I can say is, if we had the choice of both systems back when we first started out - LW IK would probably be a long forgotten relic.

I think, and hope it's not just me, that IKB is 10 times easier for beginners to understand and get working with, I think it should have been a revolution too... but Im obviously wrong about that! :D

Lexxiam
05-04-2006, 03:59 AM
Thank you!
It's very helpful

colkai
05-04-2006, 04:23 AM
Going to check these out, recommended as essential for understanding IKB by a good friend. :)

TomR
05-04-2006, 06:59 AM
Thanks. All your videos helped a lot on understanding IKBoost. :thumbsup:

hairy_llama
05-04-2006, 07:30 AM
I'd like to see some high-quality character animation out of IKBOOSTER.
Has anyone done any high quality animationnthey could post up?

I've tried IKboost quite a few times. Allways end up hating it...

omeone
05-04-2006, 07:48 AM
aye, that what need to be added to the site next, or even better some time-lapse recordings of animation in progress... so much to do...

A lot of people have tried it a few times, but didnt getting the concept of rigging on the fly (which you must do) and only working pose-to-pose animation. Also 'IK Bind' and 'Bind Motion' have been mis-understood, the videos as they are explain alot of stuff like that.

omeone
05-04-2006, 08:09 AM
I'd like to see some high-quality character animation out of IKBOOSTER.
Has anyone done any high quality animationnthey could post up?

I've tried IKboost quite a few times. Allways end up hating it...

actually... you wouldnt be too far off with these (http://www.animanium.com/images/animanium_sample.wmv) videos

riki
05-04-2006, 08:29 AM
Sweet many thanks, checking these out now.

hairy_llama
05-04-2006, 12:17 PM
I've worked with animanium... Pretty neat. Felt very usable, nothing like IKbooster to me.

omeone
05-04-2006, 12:41 PM
yeah, interfacing is very different, but I think the IK solving 100% identical and the workflow very similar.

WCameron
05-04-2006, 01:27 PM
awsome. these videos really shed a lot of light on the entire IK Boost
system. These are the kinds of things Newtek shoulda done when they
first introduced the system...

thanks! and looking forward to learning a whole lot more :-)

- Will.

colkai
05-04-2006, 01:28 PM
Well, started watching the videos - great stuff!

ericsmith
05-04-2006, 02:26 PM
I have to say, my biggest problem IK booster isn't so much it's interface, but what happens under the surface.

When you move a body part using the "IK" of IKB, it actually keys every bone affected in an FK way. This may be fine for single frame posing, but what happens when you need to start refining your curves? That sounds like a nightmare to me.

This is a fundimental problem with the whole concept. I feel the same way about Animanium and Motion Builder's (and now Maya's) full body IK.

I've read on other forums that the implementation of Maya's full body IK isn't being accepted so well.

I would rather pose a full-time IK goal, and then when I'm refining curves, I have one object to worry about, not potentially dozens.

But maybe that's just my point of view.

Eric

Dodgy
05-04-2006, 02:55 PM
Something you should be aware of: The mode down in the bottom left corner affects which items are keyed when you manipulate your skeleton.

Parent keys everything from the moving item up the IK chain to the root.
Current keys only moving items up to (and across a chain to a fixed item) an IKstop.
Child keys item down to the end (obviously)
All keys all.

Thus if you use current mode, you'll only get keys on the moving parts.

T-Light
05-04-2006, 03:09 PM
Why has it taken two years for understandable IKBoost info to come out? I know Splinegod released a DVD tutorial, but other than the initial IKBoost vids from Proton back in the pre-release days of 8 we've seen little else. With Newtek promising more CA stuff in the 9.x release could we be seeing a new IKBoost or something to replace it entirely?

ps omeone, Sterling work:)

omeone
05-04-2006, 03:31 PM
I have to say, my biggest problem IK booster isn't so much it's interface, but what happens under the surface...

Yep, that's the fundamental concept of how it works in my eyes too. I can't shed any more light than that anyway.

I would ask the question though, can you try to appraoch IK Boost with no preconception of how an IK system works and without expecting certain thing to behave certain ways...

OK too vague, try again :)

IK boost isn't controlled, operated or animated with in the same way that Trad IK is.
It is post to pose only and the tools, goals and widgets do not get animated with the rig.

I'd work less with graph editor curves and more with viewport motion paths.

Look at it this way: as you tune the path of the toe, the paths of the ankle, calf, thigh get automatically overwritten.

And finally, IK Boost has a tool for controlling the curve of a node's motion over a given range of frames, called Apply motion (not shown in the videos - it's on the right-drag-above-keys-menu).

wow I can be sooo lucid sometimes :stumped: :D

As for Maya/MB, I cant say anything cos Ive never seen 'em. I thought MB went in a different direction to Animanium though ?(more mocap - less animation)

omeone
05-04-2006, 03:39 PM
...by a good friend. :)

Ive been reading that all day and trying to figure out if there's some kidding Im supposed to get between the lines... sorry if there is, Ive been shouting at hugh and ralph all day and my head's a bit armitage shanked... and sorry if there's not! jayz.. easy way to confuse a paddy or what!

Well, thanks for the compliments anyway :) I hope you get some fun out of IKB after watching the vids :thumbsup:

ericsmith
05-04-2006, 03:47 PM
Thus if you use current mode, you'll only get keys on the moving parts.

That doesn't really help. In some ways, it makes things worse.

Let's say you are moving the right hand around at frame 0. There's no IK stop at the shoulder, so the spine is also moving. Then, you go 10 frames forward, set the shoulder to IK stop, and then pose the arm. Then, go another 10 frames forward, turn off the IK stop and move the hand goal again, which involves the spine again. The spine won't have keys at frame 10, so the inerpolation will be between 0 and 20. Now imagine trying to keep track of this after doing multiple passes and edits, while having different bones set to IK stop or fix.

You could set up the chain a certain way, and then just leave it that way for the entire animation, but that really defeats the whole purpose of IKB.

Keep in mind, I'm not putting down IKB in particular. I really feel that the whole philosophy of full body IK and on-the-fly pinning, etc. is not very production worthy.

And more importantly, this is my personal perspective. There are different philosophies about rigging and animation, and some of mine aren't exactly "classical". But I find it interesting that apps like animanium don't seem to be taking over the animation industry, and I have yet to see any really good animation done using this kind of workflow. And yes, I've seen the Animanium demos. It's either really stuttery, like the interpolation is set to linear, or the motion is very swishy, like there are just a few keys with default bezier interpolation. The subtle refinement you see with good curve control just isn't there.

Eric

ericsmith
05-04-2006, 03:57 PM
I would ask the question though, can you try to appraoch IK Boost with no preconception of how an IK system works and without expecting certain thing to behave certain ways...

I have. Believe me, I'm very into exploring new territory. I was very interested in MB and animanium's posing capabilties when they first arrived, but I mentally walked throught the whole animation process, and I could see early on that there were problems with this philosophy, even though I'd love to be able to pose this way.


IK boost isn't controlled, operated or animated with in the same way that Trad IK is.
It is post to pose only and the tools, goals and widgets do not get animated with the rig.

I'd work less with graph editor curves and more with viewport motion paths.

Look at it this way: as you tune the path of the toe, the paths of the ankle, calf, thigh get automatically overwritten.

But you need to work with graph editor curves. Motion paths only show you the 3d path that an object is moving. Fcurves show you the all important 4th dimention of velocity as the object moves from A to B. Besides, rotating an object doesn't give you any motion path in Layout, and much of good character animation is rotation based. Otherwise your character looks like a rag doll being pushed around from the outside.


And finally, IK Boost has a tool for controlling the curve of a node's motion over a given range of frames, called Apply motion (not shown in the videos - it's on the right-drag-above-keys-menu).

I guess I'd have to see that in action to know if it helps any.

Eric

geothefaust
05-04-2006, 05:14 PM
Downloading now. I loved the other two videos you posted, I found them VERY helpful!

Thanks again for more great videos. :)

Dodgy
05-04-2006, 06:13 PM
Okay, couple of points.

Maya's system isn't really a free form IK system. You have to name your bones a specific way (or denote them a specific way) for the full body IK to become attached to them at all. It looks for all certain bones and throws a fit if it doesn't find them. In that way, it's not a free form IK system, it's character setup system. No wonder people are unimpressed. It also basically works as if you gave every bone an IK goal in lw, and animated those goals. It's not very elegant and cluttered. That was the one part of Maya I was looking forward to, and it turns out to be not very nicely implemented.

With IKB you can use any skeleton you want, and it works within the keyframe system, so all plugins etc can read the pose. It's very adaptable and I am using IKB on a spaceship and it's a very nice way to animate it. You couldn't do that with Maya's full body IK.

I can see your point Ericsmith, I've been doing a lot of character setup recently and you could make the argument that it clutters the scene with unecessary keys. Till I found how the Current item set keys, I was a bit dubious too, but with this you can pose an arm and do overlapping motions a lot more easily. In my mind I'm still torn as to whether this is a better way, but it's a lot less fiddly to do a roll from elbow pivoting to palm pivoting (for example) with this, so that kind of free form motion feels like a release.

I do have some reservations, but these hopefully can be worked out.
One is, it doesn't work easily with Motion mixer yet. When you make the bones part of an Actor, their channels become overridden with MM plugins, and IKB gives up control to these plugins, which means you have to delete the actor to get IKB control back... Hopefully this will be sorted soon as this is a major hurdle to me using it all the time.

The other is Binding only works on one joint at a time. The IK system works properly if you fix two joints, (you can drag the hips and both feet stay planted for example), but if you try to bind two feet for the same time, one will wander. Since it works in real time, I'm puzzled as to why you couldn't have it working in binds.
You can get round that a little by making keys along the timeline for both feet, but it would be really nice if this worked fully.

I do love being hands on with the rig though and IKB feels like a much more hands on experience.

omeone
05-05-2006, 01:35 AM
ericsmith
again, I can't disagree with anything you say, just try and share my point of view...

To work with IKB, Like traditional animation you spend you energies drawing perfect keyframes.
Then work out the bits inbetween.
If you decide one of the keyframes needs to be drastically changed - your going to be scrapping a load of inbetweens.

IKB is very close to this. Of course with computer animation it's not quite as destructive, but even if you do decide to completely scrap a heap in tweens - that still cool cos IKB is so fast to pose again.

I'll be adding the Apply motion to a video surely, but if you want have a look now, download one of the models, set Item Action Menu to Current, move the foot on frame 10, right-drag from F0 to F10 and choose Apply motion from the menu.

Dodgy

Maya's system...name your bones a specific way
Wow that sounds entirely ****e!

Re Bind Motion, there is a bit in the video that talks about how that gets applied. It compensates the selected item's position back through to the top of the hierarchy at the default translation node. That makes it impossible to to work on more than one node, it also means that Bind Motion should always be the very last thing you do after each pass of animation.

I think the solution for this would be to have a follower-type link that moves the interactive nodes in XYZ screen space as if it were a normal click-drag on the node. I've talked a bit more about this in the comments here:
http://ikboost.com/develop/shoulder-rig-v01/

effectivly at moment we have a 3D Bind Motion, we could use a 2D Bind to allow following along a surface.
Theres a new tool in the LW9 videos about some plugin that keeps objects an exact certain distance from a given surface, if this could be used as a constraint for the nodes, we'd be flying :)

colkai
05-05-2006, 02:51 AM
Ive been reading that all day and trying to figure out if there's some kidding Im supposed to get between the lines... sorry if there is
Hehe, nope, just 'Dodgy' is a good friend and urged me to look at your videos based on some work he'd done for the Shirow Project using IKB to drive parts of a model, (not a character).
I have to say, I'm finding your explanations very easy to follow.

BTW, did you get someone to buy you an ice-cream when the van came round? ;)

(For those who wonder what I'm wittering on about, listen carefully to one of the first videos :p ).

omeone
05-05-2006, 02:57 AM
And there was me thinking Shirow was a wildlife thing :foreheads
wow looks deeeadly

Im happy to hear you find it easy to follow, thats always my biggest fear, cos Im not like communicate good

and that fecking ice-cream man comes around 5 times a day, hail, rain or snow, his last trip can be at 10 o'clock at night! bane of my life :2guns:

omeone
05-05-2006, 03:09 AM
here's a quick one just for you Colkai..

IKB for birds feathers.. Im at work, so had to do this a nit sneakily ;)

Note just because I used bones, you done have to. You could apply IKB to actual feather objects...

colkai
05-05-2006, 03:32 AM
Ahh, sorry, the Shirow server is down, we've had all sorts of problems lately, plus been hacked badly a few times.
Don't normally like pushing other forums but...
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=113779
is our thread over at CGTalk, maybe worth just jumping to 'Last Page' after seeing the first page, otherwise, you may be there all week. ;)

Cool little video! :)

t4d
05-05-2006, 06:05 AM
OK watch them all great job omeone :thumbsup:
you've done the work Newtek should of done years ago and much better then that guy who was selling IKB tutorials when IKB was first released.SO TOP WORK :rock:

I learnt alot and you showed your methods well without messing around too much, But I would have stopped and got a ice cream he was there for awhile man :thumbsup:

You really have done a great thing giving this to all Lightwave users If you want a copy of my tools email me happy to send over the links for you
You have saved me some time, so I feel I own you something
( you too far away to buy you a beer :beerchug: )

omeone
05-05-2006, 06:11 AM
hey thanks t4d, that's a really nice testimonial

of course there's a long way to go with IKB, but I think think it has a great future, and for a V1.0 release of software, it's pretty **** competant!

if you feel you owe something, just share any IKB solutions you find with the rest of us, on the ikboost site, or on your own site, or both :) also RIGs... motions poses etc etc :)

omeone
05-05-2006, 06:14 AM
Ive added another post on the site.. it's half kidding / half serious before anyone jumps down my throat ;)

21 Reason to Switch to IK Boost (http://ikboost.com/develop/lw_ik-vs-ikb-a-comparitive-analysis/)

t4d
05-05-2006, 06:50 AM
OK this is totally directed a Newtek
posting here not CGtalk cause i want Newtek to read it. .. I hope

I posted in another post becasue i don't want this to be connect to omeone in anyway he like the system I have no problem at all He's a IKB Legend in my eyes :thumbsup:
And to be honest I'm doing a rigging job right now after i do a standard IK rig
I'm going to try IKB ;)

( edit - sorry omeone I seem to have posted reason NOT to uses IKB I didn't mean to disagree with you last post like that It just took me some time to type all this )

But omeone or any IKB fans please if I'm wrong in these points
please I would like to be corrected and hear you opinion :thumbsup:

Jay Roth should take the person that Got IKB and wanted to sell it as Lw8's new CA tool & put him over his knee and give him a good smacks.
omeone still has not sold me on IKB at all. ( but hey I'm only one person maybe there are alot more IKB fans then I think ?? )

reasons I'm not sold inb IKB.

normal walk cycles take less then 2 mins then maybe another 10mins to get a nice one maybe an hour to get a really good one.
http://www.newtek.com/products/lightwave/tutorials/animation/walk/index.html
the IKB demo took over 20 mins to get what you have after 2 mins using a normal rig that's just not good character animation workflow

how long would it take to get a final complete walk cycle and how easy would it be if the director said "Make that walk more stronger", how easy is a IKB rig to edit and fine tune the animation with all those keys there ?
an old rig you could just jump in graph editor but having ik working across the whole body and with NO ik stops that seem like alot more work ?

Graph editor is KING :king: for character animation it's just a major focus with your workflow Because Ca is all keys and curves that's the way it's been since 1910 and is still the case in 2006 in EVERY software package works this way 2D and 3D and has explaned and grown around the basic's of how the animator wants to work. ( lw graph editor right now needs work to keep up )

If Newtek are wanting to push CA in another direction and show a new way to work they better put more work into doc's for it, ( again Newtek should of done the work omeone done ) because i really can't see them selling the whole idea for productions the way it is now.

not many character animators i know have any idea of rigging Yet IKB works in an way that makes the animator have to editing the rigs as they animate .

for me a riggers job is to build a rig in hours or afew days that a animator could be using weeks, months or years of production, the rig has to have the fastest workflow as it can have.
IKB misses here Sure if your a one man LW studio Model/rigger/animator etc you may have reasons
but man I just don't see IKB doing it for me in it's current version.

if you move the foot the hand moves, I know omeone said in a nice way it give natural motion But if you have to edit the animation ( director comments ) and he only commented on the leg motion you have to work over the top of IKB and correct the changes it's making as you animate
( there maybe a IKB workflow issue there I'm missing ? )

you really don't have very good handles with IKB there's just not quick and easy things to work with ( exsample Messiah has the best handles I've seen)

anyway I want Newtek to get working on improving LW's Character tools set
I personally would prefer updates to the Old IK system
But don't see any work being done on IKB so maybe 9.1 will show us something ?

colkai
05-05-2006, 07:23 AM
I learnt alot and you showed your methods well without messing around too much, But I would have stopped and got a ice cream he was there for awhile man
Hehe, make mine a cornetto. :p
Agree with Peter here though, very easy to watch and entertaining. The walk cycle was a real surprise, I first thought, "all well and good, but he's walking on the spot", then BANG, you show the bind motion - tres cool.


You really have done a great thing giving this to all Lightwave users
Amen to that, there has been a dearth of IKB info and I'm looking forward to watching the rigging videos this weekend. :D

omeone
05-05-2006, 08:22 AM
(stuff about animation)

you will not get into it in a day... did you learn to animate with Trad_IK in a day?


if you move the foot the hand moves, I know omeone said in a nice way it give natural motion But if you have to edit the animation ( director comments ) and he only commented on the leg motion you have to work over the top of IKB and correct the changes it's making as you animate
( there maybe a IKB workflow issue there I'm missing ? )

that's really addressed as one of the fundamentals of the videos... NO it doesn't, you just IK Stop anywhere on the chain that you want to.


you really don't have very good handles with IKB there's just not quick and easy things to work with ( exsample Messiah has the best handles I've seen) totally agreed! that's the kind of thinf ikboost.com is about - finding solutions.

looks to me like you're reacting too quickly, but hey, as I said at the very start of the thread, it's going to be a lot tougher for guys like you than people new to CA.

Im not saying its the final ultimate solution (wouldnt that be stupid)
I am saying its already got huge advantages over some of things in LW_IK, AND loads more potential.

BTW, seperating riggers from animators is a horrible thought in my mind. I want all aspects of animation accessible to a twelve year old with an idea, or an 85 year old with a stroy to tell. IKB is miles closer to that than LW_IK.

ericsmith
05-05-2006, 10:11 AM
Hey Peter,

First off, I'm in the same position as you regarding IKB, but there's a couple of interesting things that do help.

1. You can make IKB easier to work with by spending more time setting up before you start animating. Even though it was touted as a "one click rigging solution" years ago, it's clear that you can make the rig much more useable by spending more time setting up which bones do what (ie. limits, IK on or off, stiffness, etc.) Really, the only "re-rigging" that should happen during animation is IK stopping, pinning, and binding. All of these features work the same way with Animanium and Motion Builder, if I understand these apps properly.

2. Even though IKB is applied to the entire skeletal structure, anything you do that would normally overwrite a channel will also supercede IKB. So for example if you set up the legs with standard IK, or use point at target for the eyes, IKB will not interfere. This means you can have both concepts in one rig. At some point I'd like to experiment with a rig that uses standard IK for the legs, and IKB for the spine and arms. Considering the fact that you can pin the shoulders, IKB on the spine could actually work like an Eisner spine. I'm not sure.

The bottom line is, it seems worth exploring the idea of using IKB selectively on a character, spending the time to set it up more thoughtfully than simply applying it and then trying to drag parts around with IK on every bone in the entire character.

I'm personally still concerned about keyframe and fcurve management, however. I feel like the whole concept of "interactive IK" is something that's really great for static posing, but falls apart when you actually try to animate over time with it. On the other hand, this may not be true for those that like to animate individual bones using FK anyways.

Eric

Dodgy
05-05-2006, 11:15 AM
Eric, that is true about IKB, you can mix it on top of characters, and it can be preferable to have pendulum chains like arms work with IKB because you get nice arcs, while using traditional IK for spline style IK or legs, which may need pinning most of the time.

You don't have to use IKB exclusively, I often switch between IK, IKB , rotate and move while animating.

As for proliferation of keys, if a channel is locked, it doesn't get keyed, and if you would FK animate an arm, you would have keyed those joints anyway. This way, if you like just grabbing a hand and pulling it to the table and pinning it there, you can do. Since hands don't tend to need pinning both at the same time, Bind works perfectly in those situations. If you want to FK it, you can.

colkai
05-05-2006, 11:29 AM
Really, the only "re-rigging" that should happen during animation is IK stopping, pinning, and binding. All of these features work the same way with Animanium and Motion Builder, if I understand these apps properly.
Eric
Certainly, that's how MB works and omeone's demo of IKB shows a very similar pattern to moving a character as MB does. Granted MB has story clips etc., but this for sure makes a similar action possible in LW.
Mb auto-sets the limits and so forth when you "characterize" a rig, but if your rig is non-std, you'd have to pretty much do a similar thing of setting up your own limits, even in MB.

omeone
05-05-2006, 11:38 AM
Granted MB has story clips etc., but this for sure makes a similar action possible in LW.
would this be similar to IKB's 'save motions'?

Mb auto-sets the limits and so forth when you "characterize" a rig,IKb has setting when copy/pasting a pose called locks and limits, I havent got it working yet, this might be something like what it's for...

colkai
05-05-2006, 12:29 PM
Story clips are Much much more than that, you can overlay clips, choose override or addative. Blend them, chop and switch, stretch and so forth.
There is a load/save pose too, which you can choose to apply in all manner of ways.
Just so frustrating that the current developers are bent on wiping out any hobbyist / small studio use of MB with their current practices. But that, as they say, is a subject for another time. ;)

I'm hoping at least that Newtek take some pointers from the ease of use and versatility of MB and see about incorporating some "MB Lite" type features into LW. If they do that right, a lot of hobbyists and small studios may well move over to LW if the feel of the process was similar.

Certainly, the IKB example you showed of the walk cycle lends argument to taking that route.
BTW, I think if you did a "non-tutorial" video of setting up the character with a more 'real-world' type walk cycle in what I guess you'd call "real-time", it may well go some way to showing folks how fast it could actually be done.

The video took over 20 minutes to get a over-exaggerated walk, but of course, you were talking, going back and forth and explaining matters.
Naturally, if you were just setting up a simple walk cycle and not guiding us through it, it would be a lot faster and I think it may sway a few folks.

Sometimes, people buy the given example as a limit, rather than what it actually is (an example), or the resulting whacky walk as the only result to get easily, not saying I did personally mind you. ;)

BazC
05-05-2006, 12:38 PM
I'm VERY new to rigging (1 very simple rig under my belt) and have never animated. I'm extremely grateful to Omeone for his work which makes IKB so easy to understand. I'm mainly interested in rigging to pose models for stills but with the help of these vids I might even have a go at animating! :D

Thanks a BUNCH!

Dodgy
05-05-2006, 12:54 PM
Motion mixer is LW's version of clips. It's just unfortunate that it's tricky to get IKB and MM working together nicely. I've put in a 'bug report' abou this, but it might help if others added their voices to stress how much this needs sorting for LW CA.

omeone
05-05-2006, 01:27 PM
right with you there colkai, the interface need a total overhaul... it's own user customisable keys, menus and mouse clicks...

how simple would it be to Shift+LMB to Fix and Shift+RMB to IK Stop?

Add that motion mixer / story clips with a user-interface, one or two other tools and a couple of fixes, and that would make for a superb IKB 2.0 for me :)

And completly with you on the video too... I had to explain things...and I had a hoor of a hangover as well... and yep - the most valuable thing I can do now for IK Boost is get a load of time-lapse animation videos... and if I was any good at animation I might even do them some justice!

BazC
Great for me to hear, give the animation a go, it's a lot of fun :)

Dodgy
defo a bug then? bugger
ah well, whihch would be better? a fix for MM or a brand new one for IKB...

One of the ideas/hopes I had for ikboost.com was to gather bugs and feature requests, then consolidate them into periodic submittals to NT... in full 'clear-as-crystal' video... so that developer has the best chance of understanding what the users want...

Dodgy
05-05-2006, 03:02 PM
It's not really a bug, more of an oversight on eki's part I think. Hopefully NT can fix this easily. Maybe by making MM so that when an actor is deactivated, it's plugins are deactivated too, or if there's no clip on the timeline at that frame MM plugins become inactive. If it does that, then IKB takes control again. Or Eki could write IKB so it ignores MM plugins, but I have a feeling that would cause problems.
Or a quick way of deactivating MMMotion plugins on multiple items at once would be good.

omeone
05-05-2006, 03:50 PM
deactivating it in the 'Master Plugin' Panel doesn't work on everything then?
MM must really grab a hold of your scene.

Ino was the dev's name wasnt it, speaking of Eki though, what ever happened to him? true gentleman on the forums as I remember. One of BeeVee's first ever Euro profiles and a big inspiration for me.

Dodgy
05-06-2006, 08:22 AM
Doh! INO! Yes it was! Argh! My own head'll fall off next!

And nope, alas, deactivating it in the Master panel doesn't do it. You have to deactivate all the plugins on the items' motion options :P

Luv2Anim8
05-08-2006, 04:03 PM
great stuff... thank you

omeone
05-08-2006, 06:26 PM
This video shows a simple but effective forearm setup, using an extra Bone to enable Forearm twist.

Introducing FK Control option on nodes for the first time, (FK Control has a little more usabilty up its sleeve that just FK !)

This setup is more based in reality, and will allow more accurate deformations and faster manipulation when posing your charcter.

There's some extra video added on at the end describing what could be a pitfall if you're not aware of it, but is a very useful little feedback tool if you are. Its about IK Boost's little heads-up-clue for exceeding limits.

http://ikboost.com/learn/wrist-twist-exceeding-the-limits-with-fk-nodes/

==========================================

Dodgy, cheers. I had come accross a scene with MM on objects and it was acting very weird, but wanted to be sure if it was just me.

Luv2Anim8, welcome, hope it helps you anim8 morer and fasterer :)

GraphXs
05-08-2006, 11:06 PM
Thanks for sharing, great videos. One thing I hope they improve is the "Fix" or pinning of the bones in IKB. It seems to ignore when you fix or want something to stay in place and that’s no good when animating in 3D.:thumbsdow

I have Larry’s IK Booster video and I think he did a great job at blending IKB w/ normal LW IK. His process of blending does take a lot of setup but it will make sure items stay lock.

I really like IKB and hope Newtek improves on it features and makes it a wonderful tool for animating characters.

Again thanks, hope to see more! Great Stuff!

toby
05-08-2006, 11:20 PM
Fantastic! Fabulous!
Thanks Omeone, I really need these to understand IKB.

omeone
05-09-2006, 12:42 AM
It seems to ignore when you fix or want something to stay in place and that’s no good when animating in 3D.:thumbsdow


That's not relevant with the setup or 'RIG' used in these videos.

If you are trying to emulate a trad IK system by locking at the ankle - yes - you'll end up tearing your hair out.

BUT these videos show fixing at CONTACT points, i.e. heel and ball of foot... solving that problem nicely :)

Combine that with the ability to fix on the fly and you have the simplest of reverse foot setups. Have a closer look ;)

Dodgy
05-09-2006, 03:55 AM
I'm surprised you don't use IKB linkfor the wrist. I usually split the wrist bone in two, then link the bank channel of the middle wrist bone to the hand bank bone. That way you're only controlling the hand and it automatically rotates the wrist to compensate.

omeone
05-09-2006, 04:08 AM
The arm itself has automatic banking from the shoulder, but I felt it would be better with full independant control for the wrist as well, as this is how we use our arm day-to-day?

I though this would 'feel' more obvious to use as well.

Should I upload the scene so people can get a 'feel'?

Would like to get full feedback on this from anyone before releasing an uber 'core' rig.

edit: checking your attachment now...

omeone
05-09-2006, 04:21 AM
ok, checked the attachment.
yeah, I would normally do it like that, but I think the advatage of using the FK gives a quick click-drag on node modification, instead of activate | then click-drag on value. I made it come off the wrist for clarity (instead of the middle of the forearm) and it allows changing deformation through rest length if you need to.
Attached is your scene changed just to reflect the scene using the FK node halfway up the elbow, I think everything works exactly the same - just less clicks to operate?

Dodgy
05-09-2006, 04:42 AM
That's interesting.... I like the controlling deformation through rest length idea...

omeone
05-09-2006, 04:48 AM
I like the controlling deformation through rest length idea...

It's probably a bit sad, but I never realised you could do that "indestructively" until I started playing with IKB. Simple things like foreshortening the femur and humerus can give much better deformation on the knees and elbows. With that forarm setup you get two play two Bones off against each other (still not great without weights though, but may behave better on low poly models with low values in the Bone Inverse Falloff)

SplineGod
05-09-2006, 12:11 PM
Ive always done the rest length adjusting after posing the character. That and things like bone strength, multiply by rest length, joint compensation and muscle flexing all will effect deformations in real time.
Ill also animate hold bones to also help improve deformations and then use cyclist or other motion modifiers to tie my 'hand crafted' animations on those hold bones to the rotation channel of another bone. The nice thing about IKBoost is that any settings you have applied to a bone outside of IKBoost show up on the nodes in IKBoost. For example if you do have a motion modifier on a bone youll see the word PLUGIN on each of the HPB channel.
Its nice to be able to use those to tweak deformations. The nice thing is that youre not limited to just two bones to fix the forearm. Also, what I do if I need to add the extra twist bones is use the bone split tool to create the additional forearm bones (if I havent already done it in advance). I will select all of the forearm bones and rotate them additively. In IKBoost you can also use the link tool so that one bone in the forearm will control the rotation of the other forearm bones. A couple of things that help with forearm deformation is aadding more geometry along the forearm and using and endomorph that expands the points in the forearm slightly to help compensate for the loss of volume when twisting. :)

omeone
05-09-2006, 12:45 PM
Ah you see Larry, you learned the right way ;) I've been too hung up in weight-maps until now... although the rest I would have done - it just never occured to me to change the rest length.

Loads of top tips there Larry, thanks a million.
If LightWaving were Engineering you'd have a dozen honorary doctorates by now :)

I think maybe the next solution is a combination of what you say, Dodgy and with the FK node.
i.e. more than two Bones in the forearm, all IKB linked, but with a mulitplyier to make them additive, ultimately controlled by FK node to allow one-click-and-drag.
Last time I tried to use the IKBLink plugin panel I couldn't get it to behave though :(

(Dodgy, your PM Inbox is full, I tried to reply to the email address on your CV on your site)

SplineGod
05-09-2006, 02:32 PM
Hey Colin! :)
Back when LW had no weight maps this, among a few other tricks were the only way to do it. I used to also use limited range to get the effect of weight maps and bones. Also back when ^16 was the highest bone falloff weight maps were needed more. When newtek added greater falloffs (^32,^64 and ^128) they (newtek) stated that weight maps were needed less and less.

The nice thing about splitting the forearm bone into as many as you need (typically I split them into at least 3 - one to hold the elbow area and the other two or more to twist the forearm) to get the right amount of distribution on the twisting. Since the bones are in a heirarchy when you split them the twisting (if all the forearm twist bones are selected) is additve. Its also easy enough to use a selection set to select them, hit y for rotate, rotate them additively and then hit ctrl b to go back into IKB mode.
Using the link function isnt too bad and I remember showing it in my IKB video.
I also tend to use the same twist bones idea on the upper arm to keep the shoulder from deforming badly. When I twist the whole arm from the shoulder Ill select by two upper arm twist bones and my forearm twist bones and wrist all at the same time via another selection set. I wont select the base shoulder bone and base elbow bone.

GraphXs
05-09-2006, 10:10 PM
Great info Larry and omeone!

Omeone, I really just find it difficult to pose a character when the ball of the heel doesn't stay planted with IK boost. Or when the hand doesn’t stay fixed in their position. Q: Do you tweak and key almost every frame after ya get the main keys/pose down for the feet and hands? :stumped:

I know IK boost has onion skinning, do you use that to correct the feet so they don’t go through the floor or look like weight and follow through exists? It seems like it would take forever to get the legs/hands to hit exactly where they should and stay with tweaking every frame?

I do prefer to add more keys after my motions with LW’s Trad-IK for giving me better ease-ins/outs and snaps.

I just need to understand better your process of cleaning up after your key poses are made?

Thx

SplineGod
05-09-2006, 10:42 PM
IKBoost isnt a constraint based system in the same way LWs fulltime IK is.
With fulltime IK you only have motion applied to a null which constrains everything in the IKchain but no actual data is applied to the bones. The advantage is its easy to get things to stay locked but a pain if you want to blend IK with FK.
Theres a lot of motions that cant be done with IK such as arms breaking from the root out to the extremeties (after all it IS IK). IK is great for quickly posing things but few animators rely on it completely. In the end you need to rely on FK for tweaking and with fulltime IK you dont have that.
One way around it is to bake the IK to the bones and remove the IK.
Another solution is to use IKBoost where all the data is supplied to the bones as ROTATIONAL data. This means that you dont have absolute constraints like fulltime IK so you have to rely on adding in extra keyframes or binding/rebinding in the IKBoost Track. Since IKBoost is parttime IK thats the trade off - no full time constraints.
With IKBoost you have two issues:
1. Locking the joints position
2. Locking the joints orientation.

The first one you can sort of do by setting the node to FIXED.
The 2nd one can be done by fixing two nodes such as the ankle and the foot (remembering that IKBoost lets you change your rig on the fly so you can fix and unfix as you go for example.).

An even easier way is to use Match Goal Orientation the standard way. Create a null and label it something like Lft_Ankle_Goal. Now select the left ankle bone and assign that null as your Match Goal. Youll notice now that the ankle node indicates match goal controlling all 3 of its channels. Also if the ankle node isnt fixed youll notice that the Match Goal stays in place and doesnt follow the ankle (but still works). If you turn on FIXED for the ankle node youll notice that the Match Goal now follows the ankle. Very cool! This was something added in after I did my first IKBoost videos. You dont want to parent the match goal to a bone in the rig because youll lose the benefit of isolating the rotation of the foot from the rest of the rig. Plus ANYTHING you parent to an item in an IKBoost rig automagically becomes part of the rig including being a new node in the IK Chain (this can actually be very useful).

If you want to just use IKBoost by itself I would use the bind command (including adding more keyframes) AND Match Goal. For most things I tend to blend both Full Time IK with IKBoosts parttime IK especially for parts of the rig I know will be consistantly locked to a surface (such as feet). Theres no reason why you cant change your workflow slightly and
do the binding last. :)

omeone
05-10-2006, 01:00 AM
Hi Larry,
Going back to the IKB Link (some of us have to sleep! ;)) It is fine when you use a direct link, but trying to get the co-efficient or multiplier or whatever its called working is where I had problems. It works on the value of the limits rather than mulitiplying the rotation channel value, I still cant get and response from the source value percentage. It seems very counter-intuitiuve, but like a lot of the IKB stuff - its probably that I just havnt had my 'aaaaahhh' moment with it yet. Thanks to Dodgy for exp[laining this sofar cos otherwise Id have given up.
As well as that Ive had my first reproducable IKB crash... changing the channel link from rotation to a translation....

And getting back to the ForeArm, thanks again for sharing all your setup ideas... I had already stolen most for older rigs, except the selection sets, that's far too organised for me :D

But what Im really aiming for here, for better or worse, is an IKB rig that doesnt need switching back to layout. I know the switching method works 100%, but just going through the exercise of developing this RIG is bringing many of its own IKB revelations for me. As well as that, I'm trying to minimise Bones, avoid using the current implementation IKB handles, and make it a purely node controlled click-drag rig.
Its a slow process, but I'm in no rush :)

omeone
05-10-2006, 01:23 AM
Omeone, I really just find it difficult to pose a character when the ball of the heel doesn't stay planted with IK boost...I know IK boost has onion skinning, do you use that to correct the feet so they don’t go through the floor or look like weight and follow through exists? It seems like it would take forever to get the legs/hands to hit exactly where they should and stay with tweaking every frame? ...


You are not far off GraphXs, and that's exactly how I found the way to do it. IKB has a tool that kind of looks at the onion skinning and works out the correct adjustments needed to make it stick....

First thing for you to do: watch the end of Video 2 closely (you may have missed 1 and 2 and only seen 3 and 4), you'll find the answer right there and by understanding exactly what IKB is doing, you'll be laughing :).

http://ikboost.com/learn/video-tutorial-introduction-to-ik-boost-part-character-animation/

Note that Fix and Bind Motion have nothing to do with each other, Fix is for posing, Bind Motion is for animating. Actually, that's a good rule of thumb for IK Boost, everything you do on the character's nodes is only for posing, everything you do on the timeline is for animating.

omeone
05-10-2006, 01:24 AM
Now here's the workflow for taking it a bit further.

Typically you'll be animating in 3 'passes'

Pass 1, is where you set you pose you extremes and set the timing
when you have you extremes posed, Bind some Motions to keep the feet stuck down. If you want to adjust the timing by moving poses up and down the timline, do it now and Bind the motions again when you're finished.

Pass 2, is where you'll pose your breakdowns or tweens (you know all this I know, but just for clarity)
When you're happy with the tweens, Bind those same motions that you did after Pass 1 again.

Pass 3, Is where you do all the secondary stuff of refining the animation like overlapping actions and fine-tuning your curves (see Apply Motion) and any dynamics you want to add.
...And just before you render... you've guessed it Bind Motions again :)

It sounds like a lot of repetitive work, but it's literally seconds and you will be surprised at how little feet contact the floor in some animations... point is - when you need to stick that node to the spot, the tool is there for you to do it.

SplineGod
05-10-2006, 01:38 AM
I tend to animate in passes regardless if Im using IKB or not. Thats the beauty of animating on a computer. :)

Actually I dont use the Link tool either. Its not very flexible but its there if someone 'wants' to use it (follower is easier to setup and you can add in that multiplier).

I try and approach IKB so that its just another mode.... like you have translate, rotate, size and IKB. I dont mind switching freely to be able to multiselect bones and rotate them additively. I also use the handles in IKB to do something similar but its not the same. Besides switching modes is very easy.

A nifty little LW tool I also like to use is LW_Select Group. I have it assigned to a hotkey. What it does is allow you to pick a bone, run the tool and it selects everything downstream. It even works if you have multiple bones selected. What I do alot is select the roots of the finger bones and quickly select all the finger bones (or just some of them) for quick posing.

Whats great about IKB also is that it has its own dopesheet (sort of) built in.
Once you set block out your rough poses in Pass 1 you can select the IKB root item and set the keyframe mode to Child and slide the timing (using the IKB track) for the whole thing.

Later you can do this to arms, legs etc and slide the timing immediately on each heirarchy. Its very cool and quick. The best thing about this process is not having to leave your rig to open another window. :)

I also agree that IKB is like a super pose assist tool. Even if youve used fulltime IK you can bake it, turn it off and switch to IKB for final tweaks. The whole system is very flexible. :)

omeone
05-10-2006, 02:21 AM
I was just going to say... I think IKB Link does have serious power in there, I just don't understand it yet... but I think I have just had my aaaahhh moment :) will be back soon...

SplineGod
05-10-2006, 03:31 AM
When you add it the plugin also shows up in the graph editor. I think it is what it is (which is why I use follower instead) :)

Dodgy
05-10-2006, 04:04 AM
How to use IKB link for the uninitiated :)

Select the item you wish to drive the animation (the one which you control, and which in turn controls the other driven item)
Set rotation limits. (if you don't do this, the rotation is 1 to 1 with the driven item).
Select the driven item.
With IKB on, right click the channel number which you want controlled.
Click 'Add Link'. You should see a line running from the channel number to the driver item. Sometimes IKB can get this wrong (bug), but you can change it manually in the Channel modifier interface.
Once this is done, right click the word 'link' and go to Edit Graph. This will bring up the Graph editor.
Click on Modifiers.
Double click on IKBooster Link.
Here you can change the item driving the animation, and also the channel driving the animation.
Shift frames adds a delay to the animation, offsetting it in time from the driving item (so the driven item can anticipate the driver, or lag behind)
The source value and Change value controls allow you to set keyframes along the channel curve of the driven item to control your item. The settings correspond to 0% being the driver's minimum limit, and 100% being the driver's maximum limit.
If you set a source value of 50% and click and drag change value, IKBooster Link will set a key at frame 50 and move it up or down depending on the direction you drag change value. It will use this graph to drive the driven item. You can also use normal keyframe tools to modify this graph (like move, add keys etc).

So for example you have an arm bone you want to drive the leg. You set limits on the arm bone of -90 and 90 on the heading. In the graph editor or the leg, you set keys at frame 0 of -10, at frame 50 of 200 and at 100 of 0.
As the arm rotates from it's lower limit to it's upper limit, the leg will move from -10 all the way up to 200 and then back down to 0.

This make IKBooster link very flexible as you can get precisely the behaviour that you want. You can also apply it to other (non-IKB) channels just like other channel modifiers, so you can use it to drive them as well.

BUG: Don't select lights or cameras as your driving items as this will cause a layout crash. I've put this in the bug tracker.

omeone
05-10-2006, 04:05 AM
oh yeah, thats what I was talking about getting it under control was the problem though... like everything 'easy, once you know how'.

It is Driven Keys for dummies. Like Follower only you can envelope the mulitply values.

edit: haha Dodgy beat me to it

omeone
05-10-2006, 04:11 AM
The source value and Change value controls allow you to set keyframes along the channel curve of the driven item to control your item. The settings correspond to 0% being the driver's minimum limit, and 100% being the driver's maximum limit.
If you set a source value of 50% and click and drag change value, IKBooster Link will set a key at frame 50 and move it up or down depending on the direction you drag change value

This is the key, I was stumbling because I was not realising that what reads as Frame 0 -Frame 100 on the timeline in Graph Editor actually means Minimum Limit to Maximum Limit set on the Driver.

omeone
05-10-2006, 04:43 AM
I've made a simple scene to show IKB Link in action.

to use it: Open Scene, Activate IKB - 'Ctrl + b'

Click and drag on the Node marked with an F.

this controls:
1. Hand Twist
2. Middle Forearm Twist at half the rate of the hand
3. Bicep moves down towards to elbow
4. Bicep gets bigger the more the wrist twists, but gets smaller in relaxed position.

will make a better sample scene some other time.

Dodgy
05-10-2006, 05:07 AM
Yeah, i thought making it actually correspond to the values would have been better so -10 on the time line is -10 degrees, but I guess NT thought differently (presumably because it makes it easier to copy and paste IKB across joints and still have them work for changed drivers)

omeone
05-10-2006, 07:09 AM
I think I have set iktarget a little better now...

It should actually read - set FK target...

cant see where it would solve problems, but could be handy nontheless.

Sample scene attached, Activate IK Boost, drag on node marked with a 'T' to FK control the Third Bone.

Also this only seems to work for items in the same hierarchy.
Nothing happens apply a Target from one hierarchy to another (I think this is why it seemed to be not working before Dodgy)

GraphXs
05-10-2006, 12:11 PM
Thanks for the tip and info. I‘m gonna give another go at IKB with a character I working on, and try to use it exclusively. Thanks for the example scenes, yes I gotta watch the rest of your videos.

On another topic, have you ever used Maestro or any auto-riggers, or do you both feel IKB gives ya everything you need for rigging. Do ya know if IKB can work on top of Maestro or ACS4?

Thanks! :thumbsup: :D :lwicon:

omeone
05-10-2006, 12:39 PM
Havn't used them no.

Since they all work with Trad IK systems, they wouldn't directly benfit an IKB rig and although I imagine they could be made to work but as you've seen in the 4th video, its easy to re-use IKB rigs on different characters without much work. (That's what auto riggers do.. first they provide a means to re-use rigs on different characters and second they also provide the rigs to go with them, ACS also provides a load of cool scripts that work with those rigs, while Maestro gives much further and extends a load of cool functions and extra control of animating anything Layout itself. Watch Maestro's videos for more info.

As for "do I feel IKB gives everything I need for rigging?" Not yet, but then - no system provides you with everything you need for rigging, they all have strengths and weaknesses.

As you can see it has become a kind of personal hobby-project of mine to see how much I can get from IK Boost. I would say that I'm about two-fifths of the way there, and already yes I would be confident enough to say that IKB is competant enough.

You have the choice to use it on its own or with Trad IK, both will work OK, but the workflow will be different. If you want to use the hybrid system - Larry's (Splinegod) your man, I think his new Quadruped CD shows this and he was also talking about a second IKB dedicated CD too.

If you want to use it standalone, that's what I'm pursueing and I'll be glad to give you all the help I can :)

SplineGod
05-10-2006, 02:16 PM
Thanks Colin! :)

Maestro is awesome. For controlling stuff in a scene or a rig its every bit as good as things Ive seen in other apps.
Personally, Im not big on autoriggers as I find them to be either too limiting for me or too time consuming to customize. I think that Maestro should have never been originally promoted as an autorigger simply because this is the least of the things it is capable of doing. For controlling scenes and characters its great. I like to think of it as another type of scene editor/orchestrator. It also works great with IKBoost.

I pretty much agree with Colin on most of the IKB comments. Its mostly there IMO. What I do like is its flexibility. You can use it standalone for most things but you also have the choice of blending it wth fulltime IK.
Theres a lot of untapped power in IKB and its cool finding new tools and new ways to use them.

The fact that IKBoost allows you to change your rig makes autorigging or coming up with 'standard' rigs an interesting challenge.
The Rig file format in LW supports IKB rigs too.

BTW, thanks Dodgy! :)

omeone
05-10-2006, 04:07 PM
The fact that IKBoost allows you to change your rig makes autorigging or coming up with 'standard' rigs an interesting challenge.
The Rig file format in LW supports IKB rigs too.

Yeah, I thought the RIG format was a bit of joke because it only half worked, but seing as how it works 100% with IKB rigs... indicates to me that that was the intention all along. Means we can use it for full rigs or parts of RIGs effectively.

Just a quick point on 'standard' RIGs as I see them...
Well, firstly I think 'core' or 'lowest common denominator' RIGs is proably a better description. There are certain Bones that are pretty much needed for every humanoid character. People could add extras to that RIG as needed like hold Bones or other functional Bones. I think (but havn't checked yet) that once the core is maintained that Motions and Poses saved out from it will still work after adding other stuff onto a RIG for any given character.

As for purpose, that'll be limited to background characters and will be very very suitable for Arch & Industrial Viz scenes.
Of course people are always going to want to build and animate for their 'star' characters every time.

BTW, I'm going to redo that wrist-twist rig and video, by combining what SplineGod and Dodgy have suggested and adding them to what I had myself.

So, when a core or standard RIG is reasonably developed it will be known as the Splodgyeone™ RIG.

:groan: :D

SplineGod
05-10-2006, 04:50 PM
Lol! :)

Dodgy
05-11-2006, 02:57 AM
I'm honoured :)

SplineGod
05-11-2006, 03:32 PM
oh yeah, thats what I was talking about getting it under control was the problem though... like everything 'easy, once you know how'.

It is Driven Keys for dummies. Like Follower only you can envelope the mulitply values.

edit: haha Dodgy beat me to it

Actually it sounds more like Cyclist where you can can sculpt your animation then drive its playback using various options in another item. Cycler is a channel based version of this that does the same thing as well. Ill have to play with the IKB version more to see what the differences are. :)

omeone
05-11-2006, 05:23 PM
dunno what you'd call it, 'envelope' is a bad word though, since it usually refers "change-over-time" in LightWave, and this doesnt have anything to do with time.
In my day-job language, I'd say it enables you to plot any curve for the driving channel where MinLimit = F0 and MaxLimit = F100 on any range of values on the driven channel. Putting that into plain English is the problem though.

http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/info/maya/manual/UserGuide/Animation/KeyframeMoPath/03_understanding_key.doc5.html seems to be a similar thing.

SplineGod
05-11-2006, 05:32 PM
If I understand the Maya defination of a Set driven key theres various ways in LW to do that:
Follower, Channel Follower, Set Driven Key and by just linking one channel to another via expressions.
I like cycler, cylist and the IKBLinker because you can 'hand craft' the response. :)

GregMalick
05-11-2006, 07:45 PM
oh yeah, thats what I was talking about getting it under control was the problem though... like everything 'easy, once you know how'.

It is Driven Keys for dummies. Like Follower only you can envelope the mulitply values.

edit: haha Dodgy beat me to it

hmmmm...vFollowerPlus lets you use another item called a "Channel Controller" to control the percentage you follow the "Lead Item".

Not quite an "Envelope the Multiply Values" but sort of - since you can mess with the Envelope of the "Channel Controller".

SplineGod
05-11-2006, 07:58 PM
Thats interesting. Im going to have to take a look at that. Thanks Greg! :)

omeone
05-12-2006, 01:07 AM
If I understand the Maya defination of a Set driven key theres various ways in LW to do that:
Follower, Channel Follower, Set Driven Key and by just linking one channel to another via expressions.
I like cycler, cylist and the IKBLinker because you can 'hand craft' the response. :)

I would have always done it with expressions before, but wouldnt have been able to hand-craft the response this way.

The good thing about IKB Link is that you can do it through the viewport menus (upto invoking the graph editor anyway)

The bad thing is only Translation and Rotation (for the driven) can be accessed that way, other channels can be used but need to be hunted down first.

It's a consistent theme with IKB, a simple and very effective tool made confusing by incorrect naming and sparse documentation.

And again Im faced with the quandry of what is the best way to show its power, how much power it has, and condense all that into a little video. I don't think sample scenes will do it any justice anyway.

Pretty cool looking modifier GregMalick too! there is so much power from plugins like this and those Dodgy has aswell the possibilities seem infinite.

The advantage of your plugin is that it provides the function IKBLink: but on multiple channels, works AfterIK (if you wanted to mix LW_IK & IKB), has Path delay and plenty more besides; would all that be fair to say?

omeone
05-14-2006, 06:22 PM
Was putting together a scene file for the next video (BoosterLink), but wont have time to record it tonight...

Anyway, here's the scene if anyone wants a sneak preview or wants any particular questions addressed for when I do record.

Usual Scene instructions: Load Scene, Ctrl+b, drag on node marked with an 'F'
__________________________________________________ ______
(Dodgy, did you ever get BoosterLink working on morph channels?)

harlan
05-14-2006, 11:54 PM
pretty ****ed cool.

adk
05-15-2006, 02:01 AM
... where's the kaboom ... there's supposed to be a kaboom :);)

Seriously cool stuff there omeone ... thank you for sharing. Glad I found this great thread :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

omeone
05-15-2006, 02:21 AM
you can still animate the kaboom ;)

All of LW's other animation tools can still be mixed with anything IKB... letting you animate anything - even time itself...

Go to F60 and give the wheel a few spins,
Open the Graph Editor and add some keys, to get full control on a velocity curve. (see attached picture)

omeone
05-15-2006, 02:25 AM
Mmmm lovely.. Ive just noticed - animating time or keying the velocity allows you to go beyond BoosterLink's limits... making it... er... unlimited :)

colkai
05-15-2006, 02:53 AM
... where's the kaboom ... there's supposed to be a kaboom


I'll name that character in 1. :p Puny Earthlings... ;)

Celshader
05-15-2006, 03:33 AM
First, thank you, omeone, for IKBoost.com. I liked the IK vs. IKBooster comparison, and I look forwards to learning more about IKBooster. :thumbsup:

Second...there's something wrong with IKBoost.com. I loaded it up and saw "WordPress database error" at the top of the page. The links are gone, and "Page Not Found Error 404" is located underneath Latest Additions. The error comes up in FireFox and Internet Explorer. What's up?

omeone
05-15-2006, 03:36 AM
Cheers, Celshader. the tone of the comparison is a bit tongue-in-cheek (I have to keep mentioning that, cos it upsets people sometimes)

Anyway, that error would just have been the database on auto-backup, should be fine after a minute or two..

omeone
05-15-2006, 04:45 AM
Anyway, that error would just have been the database on auto-backup, should be fine after a minute or two..

hmmm its not coming back... looks a little more serious alright - wont be able to check it out for another 8 hours... so ikboost.com may be down until then :(

T-Light
05-15-2006, 08:03 PM
It's back up :)

omeone
05-16-2006, 02:53 AM
This video is part 1 of 3 showing the use for BoosterLink.

BoosterLink provides a very simple but powerful functionality. It sounds clichéd these days, but this one lives up to its promise.

BoosterLink lets us to get objects to behave automatically based on another objects behaviours. Sounds vague? It kind of is! But I think it will get more obvious after watching the video.

http://ikboost.com/learn/video-tutorial-boosterlink-part-1-of-3/

mav3rick
05-16-2006, 03:06 AM
it looks like follower in lw.........

omeone
05-16-2006, 03:18 AM
it actually very different... follower needs to have some motion on the driver to read in order to do work to the driven, BoosterLink doesnt - this gives us and extra dimension of freedom to control time.

The follower can only link channels with a CONSTANT, BoosterLink links them with a fully customisable curve. This is seriously powerful! :D

I'll try to get it accross in the next videos, you can also donwload the sample file (http://www.newtek.com/forums/showpost.php?p=381765&postcount=87) and check the balloon action.

BazC
05-16-2006, 04:21 AM
Thanks Omeone! Looks like a cool tool, presumably you could use it to flex muscles as a joint bends?

omeone
05-16-2006, 04:37 AM
yup, although it wont seem allow a direct link to morph channels (there are likely workarounds) you can do this with Bones.

example posted here:
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showpost.php?p=379963&postcount=72

SplineGod
05-16-2006, 05:23 AM
Cycler would be a good one to use. Its a channel based verson of cyclist so you can manually set how the morph channels will behave based on the rotation of a bone channel for example.

omeone
05-16-2006, 06:01 AM
Im not sure I follow Larry?

Do you mean as a workaround to enable BoosterLink control of morphs? I can't get this working....

...or are you just suggesting to BazC one of the ways to link morphs (that has the old constraint of being linear and time reliant).

omeone
05-16-2006, 06:10 AM
Do you mean as a workaround to enable BoosterLink control of morphs? I can't get this working....

OK got this working (with Channel Follower anyway).

It's a workaround, maybe I'll make new section on the site for workarounds, but right now, really I dont want to. For now I'd rather concentrate on IKB's short-comings in areas like these so that they can be addressed for future development.

T-Light
05-16-2006, 10:16 AM
Just popped a quick note on your site, don't like repeating myself but, stunning work omeone. :thumbsup:

Auger
05-16-2006, 10:32 AM
I am having trouble unzipping the BoosterLink vid. All the others were fine. Anybody else having trouble opening it?

Jon

T-Light
05-16-2006, 10:37 AM
No problems here :)

ericsmith
05-16-2006, 11:58 AM
I can't unzip it either.

Eric

T-Light
05-16-2006, 12:47 PM
I'm using winrar without any problems, it's free to try if anyones still having difficulty. Other than that it must be download errors.

http://www.rarlab.com/download.htm

Auger
05-16-2006, 01:00 PM
I just got it to open with 7-zip. :thumbsup: Windows default unzipper didn't work. :thumbsdow

BazC
05-16-2006, 01:29 PM
The Mac default unzipper didn't work either but Stuufit opened it without problems.

omeone
05-16-2006, 03:19 PM
It archives with the latest WinZIP (didnt have access to the anything else at the time). I'll replace it with a more trustworthy RAR when I upload the next one 2/3.

GregMalick
05-16-2006, 03:36 PM
No problems here - just using Win XP and unzipping from the desktop.

omeone - Great stuff!

It makes everything very clear & simple. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

omeone
05-17-2006, 01:49 AM
^^^
cheers GregMalick :)
(Archive now changed to a RAR and links updated)
_______________________________________________


Video 2 of 3. This one looks a little more closely at the workings of BoosterLink ‘under-the-hood’. Hopefully this will help give a better understanding of how it works, but more importantly it provides a means to access BoosterLink so that it can be applied to other channels such as scale, even when IK Boost is not being used.

http://ikboost.com/learn/video-tutorial-boosterlink-part-2-of-3/

kylekoch
05-17-2006, 11:15 AM
Hi omeone, FYI I was just able to download the character modeling tute (155 megs) at puff and larkin, I have been trying for ages but link was always broken. Thanks for both of these great contributions
Kyle

omeone
05-17-2006, 02:54 PM
hi kylekoch, yeah I only got fixing that recently, Scott Cameron of LWTOTW pointed it out for me

omeone
05-19-2006, 04:12 AM
3/3. This video is part 3 of 3 showing the use for BoosterLink.

This one goes through some practical examples of set up and normal usage on a character:


Advanced Wrist Twist
Stretchy Limbs


9min. / 8M

http://ikboost.com/learn/video-tutorial-boosterlink-part-3-of-3/

PS. Sorry about the whispering, was very late last night. Have also recorded the linking of the gear race posted before, but had to trim it out because of uploading problems where I am today.

GregMalick
05-19-2006, 11:25 AM
Another excellent video. :thumbsup:

Please do more!

Celshader
05-19-2006, 07:32 PM
Hey, if someone knows how to export a hierarchy's animation from IKB, let this guy know on his thread:
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51110

SplineGod
05-19-2006, 09:01 PM
Scott and I both hit that thread. The nice thing about IKBoost is that you can immedialy copy/paste poses or save/reload them from a whole rig or parts of a rig very easily. :)

omeone
05-20-2006, 03:48 AM
thanks Greg, at the moment I cant see an end to them...


The nice thing about IKBoost...

:D ... I dont know where to start on nice things about IKB ;)

omeone
05-22-2006, 12:52 AM
http://ikboost.com/learn/video-tutorial-boosterlink-part-3-of-3/

... but had to trim it out because of uploading problems where I am today...

Just an update on this one, the 'trim' has been fixed and the gear race / piston / ballon pump thing is now included at the end. So now it shoud read:

1. Advanced Wrist Twist
2. Stretchy Limbs
3. Gear Race / Piston / Balloon Linkage

27min. / 21M