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darkChief
04-28-2006, 08:58 AM
:help: below is a post from some other person. I'm not trying to start a debate or anything. Just looking for some points and support. Do any of you feel like this guy?

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What is there to honestly prove? Quite a large number of today's 3D artists come from some form of college/university education. All of the courses I have seen focus on Maya and Max only. Quite a large number previously use LW, but have now moved onto another 3D application (mainly Maya). Bare in mind that more and more courses are developing in this area and quite a large portion of future 3D artists will come down this route.

That's not to say that some don't still use LW, buts the large majority of graphics work now and for the future will probably focus on Max/Maya and possibly some of the other upcoming applications.

I agree with Zak's approach on this subject, but whilst he is just mentioning the LW community here at 3DBuzz, quite a few other LW communities are slowing down. Priorities are always going to be a factor, the demand for Maya/Max far outweighs that of LW (generally speaking) across the whole of the 3D 'world'.

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I'm no pro but I say he's disrespecting LW. I need some opinions..so we can have a God Farther type ending(LOL).

metahumanity
04-28-2006, 09:07 AM
adly, itīs true. At our biggest university we had a Ligtwave course a few years ago.

Now itīs all maya. They came, trained the teachers up to the point of giving them free licenses to take home.
I remember pointing out on this very same forum a few years ago that NT have to be more agressive with the universities, and that this would happen.

Well, it happened.

Sad situation, but iīm beginning to see LW dissappear completely here in Europe.

cresshead
04-28-2006, 09:13 AM
depends on what/where you use your 3d app for...

1.want to be employed in a games comapny?...max and maya then!...but they always have other tools to build models..from silo,lw,cinema,hexagon,lightwave etc as well as their core studio app]
...lightwave was the modeling app used on doom 3 so it's not a 'lockout' for maya and max.

2.want to work on tv shows doing visual fx..then lightwave is the leader in this field thogh max and maya also have a good share...

3.want to work on hi profile films?
then better get into maya, renderman, mental ray, z brush....also super hi end tools such as houdini....and max for particles and brazil rendered scenes.

4. working in print?....any app.

5.work for a general comapny doing 3d product design/architactual?....max

6. working for a multimedia firm?..max leads but most programs are in there too...

7. working as a freelance fx artist?....all they care about is the final shots and playing with their models scenes import export are high on that..lw exports to most apps with not too much hassle [point oven helps]

8. working for your self?
...what ever you like..your results are the most important thing and the speed you can work at.


being quite general here....if you want to learn '3d' then maya has a huge amount of courses...so does max...
lightwave has some good 3rd party training dvd's...

or buy some books!

IMPERIAL
04-28-2006, 09:52 AM
if the party requires a jeans, you cant show up in suit.

darkChief
04-28-2006, 09:55 AM
thanks for the reply, please have a quick look at this forum thread: http://www.3dbuzz.com/vbforum/showthread.php?t=129997&page=1&pp=10
it's were this topic is ongoing..cheers

Meaty
04-28-2006, 10:26 AM
What goes on in the colleges and universities is important, but the ivory towers do not drive and are often not aligned with industry. If a studio has invested heavily in particular training, software, and equipment, you will be hard pressed to find them willing to change because the recent graduating class only knows Max. The fact is, that in the first year of employment, a recent graduate will learn more than in his/her entire four years of college. I recently turned a Maya graduate into a Lightwave fanboy in about 4 hours of training.

It is not a good sign, if it is true, that LW is leaving schools, but it is certainly no death dealer. Lightwave is a going concern.

metahumanity
04-28-2006, 12:38 PM
What goes on in the colleges and universities is important, but the ivory towers do not drive and are often not aligned with industry. If a studio has invested heavily in particular training, software, and equipment, you will be hard pressed to find them willing to change because the recent graduating class only knows Max. The fact is, that in the first year of employment, a recent graduate will learn more than in his/her entire four years of college. I recently turned a Maya graduate into a Lightwave fanboy in about 4 hours of training.

It is not a good sign, if it is true, that LW is leaving schools, but it is certainly no death dealer. Lightwave is a going concern.

IMO thatīs a bit shortsighted.

Just to give you one example. Every architectural bureau i know uses the CAD software that the coordinators/boss have learned at the university.

Microstation, Autocad, Archicad...always the same that was used in the repective uni.

We are not in time of revoltionary scifi shows like Babylon5 anymore. Fanboyim wonīt carry a software into the future and create a broader userbase...solid represantation at universities will.

Itīs not only "not a good sign", itīs a very bad sign,

Meaty
04-28-2006, 01:33 PM
metahumanity - I think our difference is merely a matter of degree and/or semantics. Having a background in finanical auditing, when I think of "a very bad sign" I think of a company losing a critical supplier or customer or having projectible cash flow problems preventing them from making payments on current obligations in the next fiscal year. A current downward trend in educational institutions site licenses is not that. I see it as one of many possible problems which can negatively impact (but not ruin) a company in the long-term, 2-10 yrs.

MHO.

Nemoid
04-28-2006, 01:34 PM
Yes this is a bad sign indeed and i would like that Lw could find its place in universities and other kinda coursewares.
BTW in large studios , most of times pipelines are based onto Maya, (mainly because its a good platform to get pieces together) and other proprietary tools, so Lw can find sometime place as a modeler or also an animatic app.
since there are also alot of other standalone modelers and animation app, tho, even in this case Lw falls behind.

however i have to say, everytime i see works from lets say, Dave school , based on Lw, and from studios using Lw i see outstanding works so Lw is a good software and allows cool results.

Also what i think is that every artist can even use several apps, so Maya and Lw can enter in the same pipeline too.

Then, If team works well, Lw could also regain some position and find more place in univerities again.

metahumanity
04-28-2006, 03:00 PM
I see it as one of many possible problems which can negatively impact (but not ruin) a company in the long-term, 2-10 yrs.

MHO.

IMO thatīs exactly what already has happened. .

UnCommonGrafx
04-28-2006, 04:46 PM
As someone who used to care, I would say very little.

I think marketing is one thing; use is another. Many small groups of less affluent means tend to gather in the pool that is LW from those houses of max/maya/xsi. And, for a very American reason: the bottom line.
If I tell you I use something expensive then you can expect I will charge you a lot, as well, right?

Fear not. Learn all you can. And when you and a few of your co-workers want to strike out on your own, you'll be better prepared.

ShawnStovall
04-28-2006, 04:55 PM
I think with v9 Lightwave will gain its spot back in the industry. All the new features like edge select will bring it back up to code.:lwicon:

DiedonD
04-29-2006, 01:29 AM
I personally like the Idea that most of animators are using the shedevil Maya and the Devil himself Max. It only makes us LW users more Elite.
Its like everyone is use to Max and Maya, but when a very good result comes out there, and when they ask the artist how did you do it, he would return back and smile "Well I just moved some points and poolys in LW".
Add that to awsome movie products and works that bare Lightwave on its name, and you have fans of LW.

As for GodFather endings, I think that that thrown goes to NewTek high management team, that should find a way to release this product in schools and outside of it maybe. But even If Lightwave no longer exists, I would be proud to be the single user on Earth, that gives fine results through it.

DiedonD
04-29-2006, 01:51 AM
thanks for the reply, please have a quick look at this forum thread: http://www.3dbuzz.com/vbforum/showthread.php?t=129997&page=1&pp=10
it's were this topic is ongoing..cheers

By the way I went there and had my say. What do you darkChief and my other coleagues in this community thinks about it?

Nemoid
04-29-2006, 02:15 AM
hahaha very good post.

don't discriminate is the key word.

No matter what app a single artist uses, results are what counts, especially if he's a freelancer or if we're talking about small studios that can use what the heck they want , to get their results.

as i said : Maya is used mainly in large studios, or also when heavy CA animation needs to be done.
To work in such places you need to know Maya to be hired and to be proficient and fit in the pipeline, especially if you're an animator.

But, this doesn't mean you can't use Lw with Maya, and also doesn't mean you can't use Lw for your personal work.

I'd add also that Lw is also used as a renderer, because you have good rendering with unlimited rendering nodes, so there are studios actually using mainly Maya , and rendering out straight in Lw :)

darkChief
04-29-2006, 11:40 AM
Ya nice post. As far as the buzz forum, I've already said what I thought about the whole issue (my buzz profile name is mambo)..

I think it's a shame that not many educators use LW to teach 3D, I've played around with other apps and LW is just the most stress free in my opinion.
It's so much fun!!:D

But fun doesn't get the job done. Nemoid summed it up well, "No matter what app a single artist uses, results are what counts". Before purchasing LW i did some reasearch and by looking at what people have done with LW and user comments on the software, Lightwave is a capable app just like any other apps. The price is misleading, but I guess thats got it's advantages.

Well NewTek hasn't, from what I've seen had any big Hicups with advancing lightwave, that must mean there's a lot of people out there behind LW in the present and in the near future to come, so I don't have to worry about autodesk hehe:D...

I guess that "makes us LW users more Elite", hehe I may be the only lightwave user from were I come from (wishfull thinking:dance: but you never know, hehe)..

mambo