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View Full Version : Bobs 3rd Channel A switcher plugin!



Bobt
04-20-2006, 04:53 AM
OK Folks Here is a plugin I think SWITCHER people will like.
Bobs3rdChannel
Check out the image. What is it for how does it work. etc.
Well Bobs 3rd Channel adds that extra layer to the VT Switcher that
everyone needs. You can have 2 live input sources mixed on top of a moving
background with the MAIN Bus FREE to move about.
???? You say???

Check the image out. I only had time this AM to use the DDR as the dog
would not sit still and the kids are asleep.

http://www.toastergarage.com/Bobs3rdChannel.jpg

Imagine you want to Switch between the Main talent up to a 2 input shot
and have a moving background. Then go back to the Main talent shot like
every news program in America.
Well now you can!!!

What Bobs Third Channel does is load up a RTV and loop it in the background.
It can then load up the inputs from your Key and Preview Bus and mixes them
all together into the DSK. Then you can swtich between main and the Dsk and
back. If your talent is on the main and preview is there as well you effectively move
from a large shot of your talent to a 2 up PIP shot!


Hope that helps explain this a bit. If NOT post lots of questions I have
to go to work but will check email at lunch.

Bob

Bobt
04-20-2006, 04:54 AM
Oh did I mention the resizeable shapeable
soft edge mattes around the inputs you can have doing this?

Tod Cole
04-20-2006, 05:19 AM
?

Jim Capillo
04-20-2006, 05:20 AM
Now THAT is very cool !!!! :thumbsup:

Thank God for those daily train rides !!!!! :D

nevmoor
04-20-2006, 07:43 AM
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can this be used like a 2nd DSK?????

Bobt
04-20-2006, 08:06 AM
>Can this be done LIVE.
YES! And its cute too.

>Can this be used as another DDR?
Not sure I get that explain and
maybe by release it will be....

And wait there will be more magic Coming your way.
I will try and post on Saturday night before I leave for the show
Bob

tfrank
04-20-2006, 08:52 AM
This is VERY neat! I just had a demo on a box Monday to do a "double key" and some other "branding moves" for news. It was $40,000.00! And that is at the low part of the scale for this type of capability. Bob, will you be at the function Sunday night in Vegas? I would love to see this in action.

Bobt
04-20-2006, 09:17 AM
Yes I will be there!!!
I have have a table. BobFX will be on the banner.
You can see all my stuff there including 2 more plugins I have
yet to announce.


Bob

billmi
04-20-2006, 12:23 PM
Phenomenal, Bob.

Bobt
04-20-2006, 12:35 PM
Thanks Bill

Best yet I dont think VT versions matter for this plugin.
I could be wrong as it has not been tested but I think I am right on this one.

Bill_Evans
04-20-2006, 01:15 PM
OK Folks Here is a plugin I think SWITCHER people will like.
Bobs3rdChannel
Check out the image. What is it for how does it work. etc.
Well Bobs 3rd Channel adds that extra layer to the VT Switcher that
everyone needs. You can have 2 live input sources mixed on top of a moving
background with the MAIN Bus FREE to move about.
???? You say???

Check the image out. I only had time this AM to use the DDR as the dog
would not sit still and the kids are asleep.

http://www.toastergarage.com/Bobs3rdChannel.jpg


You should think about a version of this for Tricaster, or sell it for for tricaster if it will run on it now.
-Bill

UnCommonGrafx
04-20-2006, 01:22 PM
If the SDK is the same, it ought to work right now.

Tarheel Cougar
04-20-2006, 03:14 PM
This is great! I also would like to see a Tricaster version.

From that photo it looks like you can store switcher setups as presets and recall them, is this correct?

I assume you can also do a full screen split screen between two sources (like a half-wipe) with no background that you can set up on preview, then take to program?

This opens up many possibilities.

Jared

Bobt
04-20-2006, 03:47 PM
So would I but
A) I dont have a tricaster and
B) I dont know if the calls I made are available for the tricaster.
I know they have been around a long time like all the way back to
T2 days.

While in Vegas I will ask.
The code is a stand alone Exe that can be run
from a thumb drive.
I also would like to see a Tricaster version as well :)

If I understood the question the answer it yes.
a background color selection. Using it will give you a solif background.
(aka no background)
I assume you can also do a full screen split screen between two sources (like a half-wipe) with no background that you can set up on preview, then take to program?

UnCommonGrafx
04-20-2006, 03:50 PM
Hmm, if you size the source materials side-by-side, then, yes, you can do that. One would be the Key, one would be on preview; from their, you could pick which image you want to fade to/from by placing it on main.
Pressing the space bar would take you to and from the Spit piece and what's on main.

It's kinda (understatement) cool. ;) Nice to see Bob tackle the switcher.

UnCommonGrafx
04-20-2006, 03:51 PM
;)
Who let YOU on the web during working hours, Bob? snicker

Cineman
04-20-2006, 04:39 PM
This is great! I also would like to see a Tricaster version.
Two problems on current TriCaster. There is no Key/Aux bank from which to grab one source.

And, the fact that nothing beyond Overlay Templates can be patched into the DSK (aka. "Overlay").


From that photo it looks like you can store switcher setups as presets and recall them, is this correct?
There are three preset storage buttons on the interface. From the possibilities I see for this, we might be begging for Bob to double that.


I assume you can also do a full screen split screen between two sources (like a half-wipe) with no background that you can set up on preview, then take to program?
Did you get that the answer to this is yes. You know me Jared, so can imagine that this was about the first thing I tried. One very neat thing is that you can have one source on main, then use a DSK dissolve to two others in a split screen. You can cut between different sources in the split, and fade out to a different source, now on Main.

Nes Gurley

Cineman
04-20-2006, 04:51 PM
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can this be used like a 2nd DSK?????
What it basically is, is a second Mix/Effects bank using DSK, only far more capable than the original one provided by NewTek.

Nes Gurley

Tod Cole
04-20-2006, 05:28 PM
If it can do live, its cute, and cheap? How much you thinking on this one. We would love to beta this one for you...

Tod Cole
04-20-2006, 06:09 PM
You know this is one of the biggest, best things to come out for the VT yet. How many people need pip, upper Boxes, and a great way to chroma set objects? You made my day BOB!

Tarheel Cougar
04-20-2006, 07:48 PM
Nes, yes I got the answers I wanted! This is outstanding, it essentially converts the VT to a 1.5/2 M/E switcher. I made another post very recently that we have a 20 old 2 M/E switcher that could do something the VT could not, until now.

Are you beta testing?

A few more presets would come in handy. This would be a way to finally inset a scoreboard clock during a sporting event, check it out on preview, and consistently bring it up in the same place with the click of a mouse. Maybe Newtek will add another DSK channel one day so you could put a graphic on top of your split screen.... and add a key bus and a few more inputs to the SX8...

I realize I am trying to make the Tricaster what it isn't (a VT) so without that key bus I dont think it will work. But still, it would be nice.:D

Thanks, Bob!

Jared

jgrin
04-20-2006, 08:00 PM
VERY VERY cool! I'm trying to remain calm.

Questions:
1) does it add any extra frames of delay?
2) does the "fade" setting let you set a transparency level for the sources?
3) can you make it work as a 2nd dsk, as in "further downstream" than the current program out?
Here is what I mean:

Current VT operation:
(plugin has 2 non-transitioning sources: preview and key/aux)
>Main mix (with transitions)
>...DSK stacks on top of it (your plugin is the DSK source if I understand correctly)
>...to produce the Program Out


2nd DSK operation:
(plugin uses Program Out and key/aux as sources...bear with me on this)
>Main mix (with transitions)
>...DSK stacks on top of it (plugin does NOT go here)
>...to produce Program Out
>...DSK #2 stacks on top of it (plugin is this DSK source)
>...to produce the "Final" Program Out

Now, with one source being the "original" program out, you can transition one of the sources and even put the first DSK on it.
Of course, we need to have a 2nd DSK (maybe in VT[5]?) to pull this off.
I'm sure it would use more bandwidth in the computer, but a PCI Express bus should clear that right up :)

Again, very cool. Thank you!!!!!!

Bobt
04-20-2006, 08:38 PM
>VERY VERY cool! I'm trying to remain calm.
Calm is NO good!

>Questions:
>1) does it add any extra frames of delay?
Yet to be determined. It seems like there is little to none.

>2) does the "fade" setting let you set a transparency level for the sources?
Yes. You can fade each out and in.
The UI is functional but I think there needs to be some addtions. I want an
auto fade for each channel.

>3) can you make it work as a 2nd dsk, as in "further downstream" than the >current program out?

No not further than Program out.
I think I know what you are asking but I think that would not be
a good thing Kind of a feedback loop cause the next thing you
will go on through the system as well. I dont think this helps.
But this piece of code can be extended. What would you want in it?

Bob

jgrin
04-20-2006, 09:28 PM
Okay, not so calm! :D

I guess for #3 it is more up to NewTek to provide a 2nd DSK; if this DSK is layered *AFTER* the existing "Program Out", then you could avoid a loopback problem. My thought was to throw a lower third on the first DSK, such as a name -- this would appear on the existing program out and would get routed as the first PIP window; the second PIP window would be the key/aux bus, showing a PowerPoint feed or another camera feed. The result would be fed to a 2nd DSK that is further downstream than the current Program Out, avoiding a loopback. Again, it would be up to NewTek to give us the 2nd DSK.

Here's another thought (unrelated to #3) -- could you support 3 pip windows (none of them would be able to transition or even take to another live source while the pip's are being displayed): key/aux bus, preview bus, and main in bus (not the program out)? Now I'm just rambling because I see sooooo many possibilities with this!

Bobt
04-20-2006, 10:23 PM
Hmm Well I could add another load button so you can have an overlay.
Basically a video sandwhich.

Background + KeyAux or Preview + overlay top..

Bob

UnCommonGrafx
04-21-2006, 04:20 AM
You are a sick puppy. hehe

Hope you are getting some sleep. Dance class was fun.

Cineman
04-21-2006, 09:55 AM
Nes, yes I got the answers I wanted! This is outstanding, it essentially converts the VT to a 1.5/2 M/E switcher. I made another post very recently that we have a 20 old 2 M/E switcher that could do something the VT could not, until now.
You just did it again, Jared. Found the perfect way to express something.

That is exactly what we are doing, getting to a 2 M/E switcher capability on a 1 M/E footprint. Since we loose DSK for the moments of using it this way, (very temporarily, I believe) we really have a 1.5 M/E.


Are you beta testing?
Yes, but Bob pulled my NDA, at my request, starting yesterday, when he decided to announce then. I was real anxious to be able to talk about this, in the hope that I might be better able to communicate it to Live Switch users, than that old post user.

NAB is the time for introducing. This plug-in will be formally introduced and demonstrated by Bob Tasa at the NewTek meeting Sunday night there. It really is that far along. I wish that I could be there, (Heck, I wish I could be there to demonstrate my jobs-pac of Title/Overlay Templates for both TriCaster and VT.) but I still have work to do on this, back here. Between after Church on Sunday and conveyed to Bob before the NewTek meeting that evening, I should have proved if this will work right now with VT[3] (great hope from using old established code) and how it works with more than two cameras (I have my doubts).


A few more presets would come in handy. This would be a way to finally inset a scoreboard clock during a sporting event, check it out on preview, and consistently bring it up in the same place with the click of a mouse.
Yep. That can be done very nicely, and the right way in my opinion. Click the preset, and hit "f' on the keyboard.


Maybe Newtek will add another DSK channel one day so you could put a graphic on top of your split screen.... and add a key bus and a few more inputs to the SX8...
As for the first part, if I can have faith that NewTek will do something for Live Switch in VT[5] it will be to add a second DSK. I could give a lot of reasons why I believe that, but don't want to post a page. I have testing to do.


I realize I am trying to make the Tricaster what it isn't (a VT) so without that key bus I dont think it will work. But still, it would be nice.:D
Don't give up yet, for the future. Bob and I have talked in some detail about this. He has ideas about hooking some features that may be in TriCaster, but just don't show. It could turn out even better on TriCaster than it can be on VT. But this is just speculation, and definitely for the future.


Thanks, Bob!

Jared
Second that! It has just been such a pleasure working with Bob Tasa. He is such a positive fellow. I think my favorite quote would be: "I think that I can do that." To him the glass is half full. I have become so numb and sore from beating my head into the wall of cant's and wont's from NewTek, that I have been becoming a pretty negative, half empty glass, fellow.

Even when I have become frustrated in testing, and start to get down about what it was not yet doing, getting on the phone with Bob for a while, working on it and talking about it, leaves me jazzed. Course, that has led to things like no sleep on Wednesday night (the one before his announcing Thursday.

Nes Gurley

Bobt
04-21-2006, 11:31 AM
>You know this is one of the biggest, best things to come out for the VT yet.
No what I am working on now is is one of the biggest/best things for VT yet. ;) Isnt that always the way though...

Bobt
04-21-2006, 11:58 AM
Thanks for the kind words Nes. I really appreciate it.
And as always thanks for the direction without it I would have no
idea what to do..

Bob

Tod Cole
04-22-2006, 11:58 AM
>You know this is one of the biggest, best things to come out for the VT yet.
No what I am working on now is is one of the biggest/best things for VT yet. ;) Isnt that always the way though...
Can I get even a hint, more.:)

Bobt
04-22-2006, 02:01 PM
What do you think you can do with 2 keyers that can have 2 backgrounds
that you can switch between?

I am just getting the keyer code together through the switcher
One keyer goes to main the other goes to the DSK.

Here is a BIG file to show a sample of the keyer I just worked on.
My camera is an OLD Sony VX3 fed right into the VT

I have a garbage matte I used which cut my girls arms off a bit.
The reason I did that is to show I had a garbage matte :)

The clip is kind of big and shows you I am terrible at keeping a
tidy office. But I got to love the shadows..


http://www.toastergarage.com/BobKeyer1.wmv

If you dont know the answer come see me at NAB.

Bob

Cineman
04-22-2006, 02:20 PM
Can I get even a hint, more.:)
I don't think that this was quite as much a tease as it might appear. I think that Bob has a standard as to how much he has working toward something he has intended to make, before he posts anything about it. Perhaps, even Bob Tasa, has found that he sometime couldn't accomplish something that his minds eye told him that he could do. You can realize how bad it would be to post about something and then not be able to do it.

I also think that whatever one is working on now, must be, in the mind, the most important yet. Else, one would not have the perseverance to write and debug code until he gets it. I bet, if there are enough hours left, not allowing any for sleep, he will have it, by the time he leaves for NAB.

I couldn't tell you what Bob is working on. I might likely be able to hazard a good guess. Of the things that I advised Bob that we needed for live switch, all but two are covered in 3rd Channel. I have long realized that in order to use Chroma Key in a Live Switch, one must be able to transition to and from chroma keyed shots in the switch. So that is one.

The other is to use Virtual Sets. To do that, one must be able to transition (cut/dissolve) between two chroma keyed camera shots, each with different views of the virtual set background. Obviously, once there are two chroma keyed shots available, then the camera, already used, and now off air, can break to another position for the next virtual background.

Since the requirements for these two are very nearly the same, I believe one program could be written to do both things. If this turns out to not be what Bob is doing, then he can be mad at me, and I am just back to being an instigator, adding more to the wish list.

Nes Gurley

Bobt
04-22-2006, 02:31 PM
Nes.. YOU GUESSED where I am going with this.
Yes Nes I can now switch 2 chroma keyed shots tween Main and DSK.
Each a chroma key can have a different background.
Though I have to admit it uses all my little PIV to do it. (CPU at 90 + %)
At the show I will have a bigger box to play with one that has 2 real inputs
vs my homw addition VT with one
The keyer is working and I think I can make it better. You were right about
Composite. I used Composite out to pull this sample. It was better than SVideo. Anyway get a big muscular PC and it looks like you can do realtime
virtual sets. Folks thats the big one for this year.

Bob

kltv
04-22-2006, 04:23 PM
Great job Bob! That is really exciting. Have a great time in Vegas. I'm sure you'll impress a few people.

Kris

Jim Capillo
04-22-2006, 06:21 PM
Congrats Bob !!! :thumbsup:

Newtek is missing the boat by not getting you on board :stumped:

Bobt
04-22-2006, 06:50 PM
Thanks Jim,
I am doing what I can to fill what ever holes I can find.
If I could I would modify the timeline to give me alpha and allow me to add
FX to a clip. And shortcut tool shed and (I digress)
Since I can not do that I figure its time I look at the switcher.
This is doing something near and dear to my heart keying. :)
So far its been a blast. I cant wait till I can get an SX something and
do some more serious 2 camera switches. Realtime Virtual sets here we come!

Bob

Jim Capillo
04-23-2006, 05:00 AM
......Realtime Virtual sets here we come!

Bob

Now that will be a feather in your cap !:hat:

I have an idea for a cool new effect for Oasis that I saw last night.... I'll contact you when you get back from NAB to see if it's a possibility.

Cineman
04-24-2006, 03:47 PM
When several of you folks brought up DSKs, commented about Bob's plug ins using that, I could hardly resist posting back about my full faith that the next release of VT would include more than one DSK. I was really as sure that it would be happening as I have ever been to anything coming new from NewTek. But since NewTek has managed at times to surprise me at both what they have and have not done, and since there was only a few days until NAB where there might be a chance to truly know, I managed to wait.

I have now heard that there will be multiple DSKs in VT. That may be all that I will know now for a little while, so I figured that I would go ahead and post. My next question would be how many? The statement was worded such that I inferred more than two. I would predict three.

Nes Gurley

Bobt
04-25-2006, 06:12 PM
VT5 multiple DSK's but they did not know how many.
There are several issues to how many.

Bob

KSTAR
04-25-2006, 07:28 PM
Hey Bob any news on VT5's features? There has been no mention or demos during the live stream :stumped:

Bobt
04-26-2006, 12:49 AM
VT5's feature set isnt really firm. Multiple DSK's and speed edit with all the
I/O feauters.
Bob

ScorpioProd
04-28-2006, 01:16 AM
Unless something has changed since the party on Sunday, VT[5] has TWO DSKs.

Bill_Evans
04-28-2006, 01:58 AM
Unless something has changed since the party on Sunday, VT[5] has TWO DSKs.

Who told you that Eugene, two different Newtekians told me it was a function of the computer (HP) and they showed four on the Tricaster HD, so I'm not sure why you think there are only 2 (though honestly I think there gets to be a limit where more DSKs is pretty much useless).
-Bill

Bobt
04-28-2006, 04:56 AM
Eugene
When asked the question of how many everyone said they were not sure.
It will be more than 2 I was told.

Bob

ScorpioProd
04-28-2006, 01:16 PM
Are you saying the sign at the party for VT[5] said "Multiple DSKs" and not "Two DSKs?"

I could have sworn it said two, but you could be right...

nevmoor
04-28-2006, 01:24 PM
Hey, 2 is better than 1, and more is just a bonus to me!!!

Bobt
04-28-2006, 08:05 PM
Well the sign could have said 2 but I asked Paul, Zane
John Perkins and the answer was not sure more than 2.
Sooooo... I am not sure at least 2. :)
error on the side of the sign.

Bob

Bill_Evans
04-28-2006, 11:36 PM
Well the sign could have said 2 but I asked Paul, Zane
John Perkins and the answer was not sure more than 2.
Sooooo... I am not sure at least 2. :)
error on the side of the sign.

Bob

Sign said Multiple just checked my picture of it.
-Bill

Bobt
05-15-2006, 10:07 PM
Its been a while since I posted any real progress. I have been
busy working on the scaler.
Here is a partial example of 3rd channel...
Its getting closer.

Hey SWITCHER folks !!
Its been a while since NAB. I wanted to post this recent image of Bobs3rd
Channel.

Feature list for Bobs 3rd Channel add on for the switcher
Video image scaling
Multi-point Polygon Cropping and positioning.
Colored, motion background or still background.
Separate Image overlay.
Soft Edges.
Individual channel fades in or out.
Mutiple presets

Switch from this 2 up back to a ful sized Main
and back again.


http://www.bobfx.com/Bobs3rdChannel1.png

kltv
05-15-2006, 11:07 PM
That is so awesome Bob!

jgrin
05-25-2006, 01:07 PM
This is great, Bob!
Glad to see you've added the "Main In" source :D :D :D
With the multiple DSK's coming in VT[5], will we be able to run multiple "3rd Channel"s?
Here's the scenario I'm thinking about:
=====
DSK1: "3rd Channel" #1:

Main In -- Music leader (scaled and cropped)
Aux In -- Song lyrics (scaled)

The "Main In" source can be changed with the usual VT keyboard shortcuts -- i.e. press a number to put a new camera shot on the Preview bus, then press "enter" to take.


DSK2: "3rd Channel" #2:

Aux In -- Song lyrics (unscaled and uncropped)
To put up song lyrics or Bible passages full screen without having to first punch it up on the preview bus, use a VT DSK keyboard shortcut to fade up DSK #2. This would be very handy if I want to go directly from the dual pip shown on DSK #1 to a full screen of the Aux bus.

=====

UnCommonGrafx
05-25-2006, 01:26 PM
Actually, you could switch between those two scenarios with a cut of two presets, if I get the gist of what you want.


I think. What all this thing can do needs to really be worked over by live guys; the regular testbeds aren't robust enough for this puppy. It's not the edge but he's pushing it.

I believe your biggest benefit for more is in having the 3-channel power of the VT-Pro card -- that'll get you the more you want. Three moving channels with all the rest of the stuff... moving bkg, overlay, etc.

Bob's got a cool tool for those in need of doing more with switching.

Bobt
05-26-2006, 04:49 AM
>With the multiple DSK's coming in VT[5], will we be able to run multiple "3rd >Channel"s?
One this will NOT work on a VT3 card. You must have a VT4 with 3 input channels.
You are on main.
You fade to 3rd channel on the DSK

Preivew In -- Music leader (scaled and cropped)
Aux In -- Song lyrics (scaled)

You change main and go back.


Aux In -- Song lyrics (unscaled and uncropped)

>To put up song lyrics or Bible passages full screen without
>having to first punch it up on the preview bus, use a VT DSK keyboard
>shortcut to fade up
You can do this on the forground overlay as long as they in PNG format.
In fact you can now place up several overlays and page through them.

DSK #2. This would be very handy if I want to go directly from the dual pip shown on DSK #1 to a full screen of the Aux bus

I hope you can use the idea from DSK#1 that should work for you.

Bob

Bobt
05-26-2006, 04:50 AM
On another note. Almost done.. Needs a bit more testing.
Call to ask for a demo. Waiting to hear back from the PAL folks as well.

http://www.toastergarage.com/Bobs3rdChannel1.png


Bob

Bobt
05-27-2006, 08:51 AM
OK here is another way to use 3rd channel.
With a VT4 card you can use 3 live sources of video. With a VT3
you can use up to 2 live sources. You can also use any combination there of.
This image demonstartes the shape masks you can use to make your
video switch unique.
Bobs3rd channel can be seen at
Varto Technologies, AmiTrace Video hardware services and
Safe Harbor computers. Any ohter Newtek dealers interested in a
demo copy of 3rd channel let me know.

http://www.toastergarage.com/Bobs3rdChannel2.png

Bobt
05-27-2006, 02:27 PM
I was talking to someone and have to expand on what you are seeing here.
1) 3rd channel can save presets. Your presets by hitting shift click.
So you set up beofre and advent save some presets for your multicamera shoot and you are ready to recall them when you need em.

2) 3rd channel shows up in the DSK with any of the Preview, KeyAux or Main
inputs scaled mixed and available in the DSK.

3) 3rd channel can make a video sandwich.
You can add moving RTV backgrounds or a static PNG background
You can add multiple PNG foreground images with transparency Like the
lines you see around the video in the picture above.
If you add multiple PNG foreground images you can page through them using the >> button.

Each channel can have its own mask.
The mask is a multipoint polygon you make in the preview window.
This of course is all saved in the presets.

Normal operation you click a preset hit Start Feed.
3rd channel shows up in the DSK you fade to it.

VT4 cards.. (VT3 has only 2 live input channels)
If are using only 2 channels (like Preview and Key/AUX) you can change the
position of main while 3rd Channel is in operation and fade back to it.

If you use all three channels put your main talent in main fade to the DSK
then back to Main. So you are going from Main to the 3 up back to Main.

There are soft edges available in 3rd channel. You can use them to do
PIP's with overlayed border.

Whats it good for?
Board meetings with 2 cameras across the room
Large stage shows when you want to split screen multiple people together.
News shows, Talk shows, anything that you need a live PIP sandwich.

Whats it do different than VT.
How would you get a motion background a keyed foreground and 3 pips up at
the same time?

I hope this helps explain some of what you see. :D

Now I hope some of you switcher people can spread the word as it goes on
sale end of next week.

Bob

Bobt
06-12-2006, 12:39 AM
I feel like its week 99 and its only been a few.
Bobs3rdChannel best described by Nes in a post
Just to go over the basics. You can have 3 live sources with a VT4
card. You can 3 live sources and a DDR if you have VT3.
You can save your setups as presets.
You can apply a soft edge and you can apply a shape mask.
You can scale any inputs.
You can add a moving background static background
or Solid Color.
You can position any of the inputs as you can see here.

Here is an image of some examples I made today with Bobs3rdChannel.
If you have a VT4 its fantastic you get all the use you ever wanted out of
those 3 channels. If you have a VT3 you are also in good shape you can
still get moving background overlayed image and 2 camera inputs going
at the same time. YES sireee...

You will be able to download a demo this week so you can play with it
yourself. If you are brave enough to try it Check it out a few days
early drop me an emaill. The demo version is already made.

http://www.toastergarage.com/Bobs3rdChannel.png

Bobt
06-12-2006, 12:41 AM
Oh I forgot.
You have keyboard short cuts
and a mini interface for live events.
There is more. If you live Switch Bobs3rd Channel is the way to go.
Price. 149 Cheap too.
Bob

Bobt
06-12-2006, 05:13 AM
Re read this
You can 3 live sources witha VT4 card
and 2 live sources and a DDR if you have a VT3.

Randall Chesbro
06-12-2006, 10:41 AM
Sorry if you said this but can you have all this happen and have the cg over it?
this would work in VT5 im asumming the extra channle?
how about 2 cameras and and a lower 3rd?
thanks.
I do have a vt4card.

Tarheel Cougar
06-12-2006, 11:22 AM
This is great! One of the biggest enhancements to the switcher's usefulness IMO since the Toaster Flyer was introduced. Definately going to check it out.

Jared Amos

Cineman
06-12-2006, 11:51 AM
Randall,

I was very much involved in the early design and testing of 3rd Channel. Since I am much involved in church production, with constant CG keys of song lyrics, this capability was included early on.

On the first box in the "Expanded" panel there is a button called "Load Foreground". From there I could load a list of CG Key Pings which would appear with the 3rd Channel DSK, and be stepped through with the keyboard shortcut "Ctrl" plus the Right Arrow key (back with "Ctrl" plus the Left Arrow key).

One of the last feature improvements that I read about from Bob included the capability to add to this list of foregrounds, or CG Keys, so with that you should be able to, for instance, add keys for multiple songs, from different folders if you liked.

Nes Gurley

Bobt
06-12-2006, 12:07 PM
OK By CG do you mean a still image overlay with text?
Yes, several and you can page through them live.

> 2 cameras and and a lower 3rd?
The way the 3rd Channel video sandwich works (OK I made that up
what else do you call the layers)

From bottom to top.
Background RTV/PNG/Static Color
Main - can be camera or DDR
Preview - can be camera or DDR
Key/Aux - can be camera DDR VT4

(Please remember VT3 only has 2 live inputs so it can have
2 cameras and one DDR if you needed but it can not have 3 live sources
that can only happen on VT4.)

Up to 30 PNG Foreground images with alpha channel
Does that help?

If you needed something in motion you could just adjust
the mask on all the video layers to allow the motion
RTV background show through.

Does that answer your question?

Bob

Bobt
06-12-2006, 12:11 PM
>>I was very much involved in the early design and testing of 3rd Channel.

Nes is far to humble.
Without his help this would not be a product.
About 90% of the functionality is his idea.
I made some buttons and other things work but he
not only stayed in constant contact with me but put up with the fact
that I dont switch and know little about that side of VT.
(lot of dumb user questions from me)
So everyone here owes him a hearty pat on the back when you see Nes
he is one good guy to work with.

Bob

Bobt
06-12-2006, 12:13 PM
In case anyone wants to know I am waiting to hear back from a few testers
about their experience with it and see if there are any more bugs I can kill.
I worked with it for over 2 hours last night and it felt very solid. (But HEY
I know how to use all the buttons :)

Bob

tvoge
06-12-2006, 12:45 PM
Bob,

This sounds really cool. You say you'll have a demo soon? We do live work for our church each Sunday and this looks like it would really enhance what we do. We currently switch between 3 cameras and use the Title Templates (easier for my volunteer operators).

Couple of questions:

1. This looks like it has a ton of features. How easy do you see it being for our volunteers to learn and use?

2. Can you give me a quick listing of the top 3 or 4 features that may be useful in our setting? Like I said, we use 3 cameras (actually 4, but mainly use three) and are capturing to WMV format (for the internet) and sending out to a VCR stack for recording. We do no post work.

Thanks for the heads up!

Todd Voge
Trinity Lutheran Church
Trinity Radio and Video Services Inc.
Faribault, MN 55021
[email protected]
www.trinityradioandvideo.org

Cineman
06-12-2006, 01:16 PM
(Please remember VT3 only has 2 live inputs so it can have 2 cameras and one DDR if you needed but it can not have 3 live sourcesthat can only happen on VT4.)
Forgive me Bob, if I am overstepping, but each time that you post on this, it worries me that such could be confusing.

VT cards do not directly relate to build numbers of VT. I am sure that Bob is referring to the cards here. The original VT card supports only two active channels of input (two cameras, at one time). The VT[4] Pro (my own terminology for it) Card supports three cameras. So an active camera input can be placed on Key / Aux, with the two others appearing on Preview and Main, with it. (The two active cameras on the Original VT card are the ones on Preview and Main) (NOTE: either of these will only work from input through an SX.)

3rd Channel was designed to work with either situation. So it can contain three cameras with the Pro card, or two with the original. Any computer generated source, from a DDR, or VT Edit, a still, including a CG Page, or Title Template can be placed in any, or all, of these three locations; but only a computer source can be placed in Key / Aux when using the original card.

3rd Channel doesn't currently work with VT[3], although it did for a good while when I was testing for Bob. It was a big part of my testing. I was handling PAL testing for awhile, through a great third person in the UK, but am somewhat confused as to if it works now, under the current version.

Nes Gurley

Cineman
06-12-2006, 03:27 PM
We do live work for our church each Sunday and this looks like it would really enhance what we do. We currently switch between 3 cameras and use the Title Templates (easier for my volunteer operators).
Todd,

Since my main work is with a church, I thought it might be appropriate for me to field this one too, especially since I have several actual examples of using 3rd Channel in a church service. I also use four cameras. I am also enamored with Title Templates but use CG at the church (VT[3]).

TO ALL: Bob has to use his cell phone for E-mail, and I assume these replies, as well, during the day. He is always free to reply as well and may likely do so.


1. This looks like it has a ton of features. How easy do you see it being for our volunteers to learn and use?
To really take advantage of 3rd channel requires a little planning ahead. If presets can be determined and set during pre production, they are very easy to recall and use during the actual church service. It worked wonderfully for me. I prefer the more simple and sophisticated things for church anyway. During Wednesday night rehearsal I determine and set up the presets, which then hold for the Sunday morning run through and service. (Actually, many of the presets made, just hold from week to week.)


2. Can you give me a quick listing of the top 3 or 4 features that may be useful in our setting? Like I said, we use 3 cameras (actually 4, but mainly use three)
Most all the bands feature a female lead singer on a hand held or headset. Since she is free to move around, we cover her with the manned camera. I make a preset for her on the camera left side. I use the crop box to move her from the center to the left half so that the volunteer camera operator doesn't have to pan her into position on the left (better esthetic too). (You can probably imagine that I also make a preset from the first to have her moved to the right for singing with someone on the other side. Real quick as I just hold the mouse over the X coordinate adjuster, and scroll the mouse to move the crop box.) (Oh my gosh Bob, re reading and may remember that this has been removed, or not now working?)

Say then, that she is harmonizing with or being echoed by the acoustic guitar player, to her left, on a fixed mic. For speed I just set for him to be on the right with what will be his camera. (Will say this is made easier for me because of robotics cameras. I just make a camera preset for that shot and include it in my 3rd channel preset as well.) That's it, well, except that I usually use the mouse scroll to soften the edge of the females box to make a soft edge split screen. (My opinion is that makes for a better esthetic in church.)

You asked for several examples and I'll be off the forum page, but you can probably see some presets for when the lead is different, and the Main and Preview cameras need to be reversed in the preset. Real quick work for a variety of shots.

Here is one with PIPs. During the last song the kids come on stage and sing and dance with the band. Well, they are so gosh golly cute that we want to get shots of them all but we do have a song going on. Put close shots of the kids in PIPs. Another version is to put the lead in a PIP and pan and zoom the kids with another camera.

Just one more that I want to include because I've been surprised at how many time that we have used one of these. We have a POV camera above the stage that we use for over the shoulder shots of keys, timbalies, and drums. I make a shot with the POV with, say, the keys at bottom right. this time I turn the crop box into a triangle and use that to mask the floor where every cable distracts, and really soften out the edge. I use that with a full shot of the singer to make a kind of super, except for not having the lowered levels of a T-bar split.

Just one word on ease of calling 3rd Channel presets by your volunteers during the switch. Unless it changed since I was part of beta testing, all live switch functions can be done with just the "Minimum" panel open for 3rd channel, and all presets can be called and executed with keyboard shortcuts.

I better just stop on this part, because I may be wrong. You may need to correct me on this part, Bob. I know that when 3rd channel would no longer work on my VT[4] and the version for VT[3] was no longer working, you wanted mighty bad to add those redundant features that would require both mouse clicking and having the Expanded (pre production) panel open during the switch. Please correct anything that I have said that has since been thrown out with the bath water.

I am reasonably sure that everything that I said above, except for the next to last paragraph, is still in the feature set, Todd. I wish that the ones in that paragraph were as well. I did work hard to make this work good in a church environment.

Nes Gurley

mbloor
06-12-2006, 04:11 PM
Nes it does work in PAL, though a quick word of warning, the presets Bob has thoughtfully provided to demo the unit will throw a "little wobble", as the PNG foreground provided is NTSC not PAL resolution.
It is truly wonderful to have in one "composite" output an RTV background, jumpbacks/digital juice are great for this, up to 3 live inputs plus a PNG overlay..
I gotta tell ya live switch users owe Nes and Bob a great deal.
Its fun to use, does what it says on the box, and is very functional.
As Nes said you need some preproduction to set up the presets, but once you`ve done that away you go.....
This little plug in gives you what you had always wanted...
Thankyou Nes
Thankyou Bob
Mark

Tarheel Cougar
06-12-2006, 04:50 PM
I also wanted to add a thank you to Nes as well as Bob, I know he has been involved and working on this idea for some time and I'm finally glad to see it come to fruition. I'm also glad to have a VT4 Pro card! Right off our immediate use will be in sports, to set up a camera pointed at the scoreboard, crop the frame to just the time digits, and move the PIP to the lower corner along with a lower-third score graphic. I also envision split-screens to show the opposing head coaches or quarterbacks for comparisons, with their stats overlayed. Throwing a jump back behind it all is even better! Being able to store and recall this is something I have done on hardware switchers for over a decade but never before on the VT---may have to consider some swapping and put it in the production truck instead of the studio! Again I can't stress how much more powerful the switcher has become because of this one plugin. This is a HUGE feature that Newtek essentially "forgot" to include.

Jared Amos

tvoge
06-12-2006, 05:53 PM
Since my main work is with a church, I thought it might be appropriate for me to field this one too, especially since I have several actual examples of using 3rd Channel in a church service. I also use four cameras. I am also enamored with Title Templates but use CG at the church (VT[3]).


I use CG as well at times, when I am up there working. When I have my students or others, I have them use TT. It is SOOO much easier!



To really take advantage of 3rd channel requires a little planning ahead. If presets can be determined and set during pre production, they are very easy to recall and use during the actual church service. It worked wonderfully for me. I prefer the more simple and sophisticated things for church anyway. During Wednesday night rehearsal I determine and set up the presets, which then hold for the Sunday morning run through and service. (Actually, many of the presets made, just hold from week to week.)


So basically I could set up presets for the various areas my people are at, and how they will look (luckily things don't change much for us, being the stodgy Lutherans we are!) and save them for later use. That would make the training a lot easier.



Say then, that she is harmonizing with or being echoed by the acoustic guitar player, to her left, on a fixed mic. For speed I just set for him to be on the right with what will be his camera. (Will say this is made easier for me because of robotics cameras. I just make a camera preset for that shot and include it in my 3rd channel preset as well.) That's it, well, except that I usually use the mouse scroll to soften the edge of the females box to make a soft edge split screen. (My opinion is that makes for a better esthetic in church.)


I love my remote controlled cameras! We don't have any manned cameras in the sanctuary. All are Panasonic Security Cameras that work wonderfully for what we are needing.

What you are talking about is sounding more cool by the minute!



You asked for several examples and I'll be off the forum page, but you can probably see some presets for when the lead is different, and the Main and Preview cameras need to be reversed in the preset. Real quick work for a variety of shots.

Here is one with PIPs. During the last song the kids come on stage and sing and dance with the band. Well, they are so gosh golly cute that we want to get shots of them all but we do have a song going on. Put close shots of the kids in PIPs. Another version is to put the lead in a PIP and pan and zoom the kids with another camera.

Just one more that I want to include because I've been surprised at how many time that we have used one of these. We have a POV camera above the stage that we use for over the shoulder shots of keys, timbalies, and drums. I make a shot with the POV with, say, the keys at bottom right. this time I turn the crop box into a triangle and use that to mask the floor where every cable distracts, and really soften out the edge. I use that with a full shot of the singer to make a kind of super, except for not having the lowered levels of a T-bar split.


Thanks for the examples. These really sound great. Reading these forums and the VTNT on Yahoo has been teaching me a lot!



Just one word on ease of calling 3rd Channel presets by your volunteers during the switch. Unless it changed since I was part of beta testing, all live switch functions can be done with just the "Minimum" panel open for 3rd channel, and all presets can be called and executed with keyboard shortcuts.


That would be good if it is the case. The easier, the better. You know how it goes with volunteer and student operators!



I am reasonably sure that everything that I said above, except for the next to last paragraph, is still in the feature set, Todd. I wish that the ones in that paragraph were as well. I did work hard to make this work good in a church environment.


THANK YOU NES!!! This was awesome info. I am looking forward to seeing this and hopefully adding to our toolbox at church.

Todd

Bobt
06-12-2006, 07:49 PM
>(Oh my gosh Bob, re reading and may remember that this has
>been removed, or not now working?)
Working again it did have a bug. You must not have loaded the last build yet.
(considering I made last night at 2AM.

>Bob. I know that when 3rd channel would no longer work on my VT[4]
>and the version for VT[3] was no longer working,
VT[3]should work in the last Build Nes. Think I sent that in the email
this AM. Shortcuts. Dunno what to say about your VT[4] currently its the only problem child machine in the 6.

>you wanted mighty bad to add those redundant features that would require >both mouse clicking and having the Expanded (pre production) panel open >during the switch.
I wont touch this one Nes.. :) Email Mark and ask what he thinks. Go on..


Nothing has changed only some minor things been added Nes and a
much needed quailty boost to the scaler. Looking at another turn of the wrench tonight for that after I test some install snags to see what happened.


Anyone want to test the demo version let me know. It will do everything but output to the Monitor. You can watch form a Preview window.
Drop me an email.
Bob

Ahmed
06-12-2006, 10:47 PM
On another note. Almost done.. Needs a bit more testing.
Call to ask for a demo. Waiting to hear back from the PAL folks as well.

http://www.toastergarage.com/Bobs3rdChannel1.png


Bob

BOB, PAL is my middle name.. and for your sake, it is going to be my first name until your baby is out. Email me please.

How could I not pay attention to this thread is beyond me?

This is really cool.. are you saying that we can position and scale any of the 3 live videos?

I am really impressed..

Bobt
06-12-2006, 10:50 PM
AHMED I HAVE Emailed you.
!! I even have ICQ open now waiting for you to show up.
If the email address is still the same.

Bob

Ahmed
06-12-2006, 10:55 PM
AHMED I HAVE Emailed you.
!! I even have ICQ open now waiting for you to show up.
If the email address is still the same.

Bob

ICQ is so old fashion my friend.. it is SKYPE all the way. Skype is big, it is the eBay of chatting.

You really do not sleep... worse than me.

Bobt
06-13-2006, 04:05 AM
>You really do not sleep... worse than me.
No this week is the special get the plugin out the door week.

Bob

Bobt
06-13-2006, 04:05 AM
Let me know how that test version went.

Bob

Videonut
06-13-2006, 07:16 AM
Hi Bob,

It sounds great. It seems like it is all the more need for a 3-4 channel BOB instead the SX-8. I hope that someone is listening.

Bobt
06-13-2006, 12:10 PM
>Hi Bob,
>It sounds great. It seems like it is all the more need for a 3-4 channel BOB >instead the SX-8. I hope that someone is listening.
Dunno wonder if I can make one ... Hmm..

Bobt
06-13-2006, 12:13 PM
To you guys out there. I have a couple of loose ends to tie up
but the should not stop you from trying the demo version and sending
me feedback. I have not heard from any of the units I just sent out. Hope to hear from them soon.

If you are interested in this pre final trial (helps me with install issues and
other things that may or my not have been tested) email me.
Email me your results folks.

Thanks all,
Bob
You can email me at Bobt at toastergarage.com

Bob

Bobt
06-22-2006, 10:37 PM
Demo anyone?

Here is the location for the T4 build 6015/16 NTSC or PAL version of
Bobs3rdChannel. If you have time cruise the demo version and
please send me emails on any bugs if you find them.
Friday I will create the Flash tutorial and this should ship on Saturday.
Any comments problems or questions send em my way.
bobt at toastergarage.com
Thanks all..

T4Version
http://www.toastergarage.com/Bobs3rdChannelT4.zip


http://www.toastergarage.com/3rdChannel5.png

Here are some directions to get you started with the demo.

The demo version does everything but output to the video monitor.
It allows you to test and try.
If you are willing to live with that limitation then by all means download
and try this new product.

I have default presets. They work as long as the
install is on the default c:\vt4. If its not then they will not
work and you should make your own.

After install you start 3rdChannel by right clicking on the switcher panel in VT
There will be an entry for BobFX then 3rdChannel.
When you first start there is a registration panel that opens once you purchase/register this will not open again after you register.

After 3rd Chanel is open you see several preset buttons
a start feed preview 2 arrow buttons reset and a button named expand.

When you hit expand or use the keys Control E the panel will
become full length.
Most things are self explanatory except a few.
To use Key Aux Preview or Main you need to check send first then
click Start Feed.
This puts 3rd Channel into the DSK and starts the previews working.
(IN DEMO MODE the VT ouput does not work.)


The Previews for each channel have squares around them.
These are crop rectangles and can be used to trim off the image
or make the shapes you have seen in the posts.
To add points to them control click on a line.
Then you can move the point around change the shape.

To the result Hit the Topmost Preview in the window.
This will open a window in with the results.
You can stretch it to any size.

F2 and F3 will fade an image on or off.
the rest are self explanatory.

LoadBackground and LoadForeground.
You can load and RTV or PNG still image as a
background. The RTV will play in a loop fashion.
The size of any of these must match output image size.
(720x576 for PAL or 720x486 for NTSC)

Foreground is a lot more complex to explain.
It allows the loading of still PNG images.
You can load more than one at a time.
They are loaded in sorted within groups.

For example you load images a.png,d.png,z.png,c.png
The group would be sorted to a.png,c.png,d.png,z.png

Then you load more images from another directory.
They are loaded the same in groups.

You can page through them live by using the arrows.
Reset or the use of a preset erases all the images loaded.

Well thats about all for a very short explanation.
I plan to make some Camtasia tutorials soon.
I hope these rough directions are enough to get
you started.

Bob

PSegarra
06-23-2006, 04:23 AM
That's neat.

Bobt
06-23-2006, 04:32 AM
I like this screen shot a bit better it shows several different setups.
http://www.toastergarage.com/Bobs3rdChannel.png

Bobt
06-25-2006, 07:15 PM
Here is Part 1 of the tutorial for Bobs3rdChannel

http://www.toastergarage.com/Bobs3rdChannelP1.html

After hours of testing I am releasing it Bobs3rdChannel today.


Some background/full disclosure.

I have been working with Nes Gurley for quite a while on Bobs3rdChannel.
He is a fantastic guy to work with but try as I may I could not get him
running smoothly with Bobs3rdChannel.

His current configuration did not work with it.
Yes you heard right. So why am I releasing it?
I have other 2 beta testers and myself
that are working well with Bobs3rdChannel.

So be forewarned. Download the demo see how your CPU usage is.
Mine is about 60% with 3 live sources scaled and a moving background image.

My machine configuration is a single PIV 2.8Ghz machine 1GB of Ram
and 8x AGP slot with a 4 drive SATA raid.
Thats about as honest as you will get from anyone.
So download the free from

http://www.toastergarage.com/Bobs3rdChannelT4.zip
If someone wants or is interested in a T3 demo let me know.

So now you know..

Back to the news.
The tutorial you see is recording with Camtasia
to disk at the same time I am using
Bobs3rdChannel outputing via VT to NTSC all done live as always

Bob

Bobt
06-25-2006, 07:17 PM
OH almost forgot.
You can get this at
Varto Technologies he can give you a demo.
Blaine at Video hardware can give you a demo as well.
Safe Harbor will have it online when I send them the info.
Jef at Pizazz can also give you a demo.
Other dealers? Please contact me when you are ready. This os
ONE COOL plugin for the switcher.

Bob

Bobt
06-27-2006, 12:05 PM
Hey folks in case you have not seen this one.

http://www.toastergarage.com/Bobs3rdChannelP2.html

You should also check out this tutorial.
Its short and should give you some more ideas as to what 3rdChannel can do.

Bob

KZSWTV27
07-24-2006, 06:13 PM
Will NewTek still support my VT4 software if I install a third party plug-in on my toaster?

UnCommonGrafx
07-24-2006, 06:48 PM
Like how?

Bob's the one you would look to for support. It's just like a plug-in for any other program: the plug-in writer is your support for the app.

Bob takes care of us. Heck, he's writing this sofware FOR us. And we, too, will support you after the install of a third party plug-in. ;)

It's the TriCaster that might give you problems with warranty and third party installs. That's why TriCaster folk have to add on through USB-addons.

Oh, the answer is: Yes, they will still support their software. ;) They just may tell you to uninstall Bob's stuff if they are troubleshooting with you. And this makes sense. Don't forget: the forums are a great source of info. Sometimes, better than a call to support.

I'm done rambling.
;)

Bobt
07-25-2006, 05:26 AM
Will NewTek still support my VT4 software if I install a third party plug-in on my toaster?
__________________
KZSW TV

YES is the simple answer here.

Bob

podro
07-25-2006, 07:49 AM
Has anyone tried this plugin on the Tricaster yet?

ScorpioProd
07-25-2006, 11:16 AM
Isn't the TriCaster officially a closed system to plug-ins?

KZSWTV27
07-25-2006, 12:18 PM
Know of any crashing problems with Bobs3rdChannel?

Bobt
07-25-2006, 06:08 PM
Doesnt work. Been tried.
Not sure why
Bob

Cineman
07-25-2006, 10:10 PM
Know of any crashing problems with Bobs3rdChannel?
Must confess that I crashed fairly consistently on my software VT4. Bob acknowledged that on this thread at post # 84. Was a real mystery since the specs on my and Bob's system were nearly the same. My cpu usage would jump right to 100%, and I would soon crash or lock up with a debug run.

I could never get it to work on the VT3 at my disposal either. That never crashed, but was still unusable. The actual thing that made it unusable on both was that the output from 3rd Channel on an NTSC video monitor would glitch and flash with either the VT4 or VT3.

Unfortunately, the demo version won't show that problem because it will not send 3rd Channel.

I now have access to a brand new VT4 Live configuration, and look forward to testing just as soon as I can get my head above water.

Nes Gurley

Bobt
07-26-2006, 11:58 AM
>The actual thing that made it unusable on both was that the output from
>3rd Channel on an NTSC video monitor would glitch and flash with either the >VT4 or VT3.
Further explanation here. If the CPU in the demo rides over 80% dont get this
plugin without a hardware update. It should ride on average of 60 to 70% on slower machines and below that on faster machines.

The demo does connect to the ouput device and does everything except dump the video to the monitor.

I am looking forward on Nes's new findings on his new box.

Bob

PS my Box is a single 2.8Ghz PIV 1GB of high speed Ram on a SuperMicro motherboard with a 875 chipset.

Bobt
07-26-2006, 12:00 PM
Tricaster Doesnt work. Been tried.
Not sure why
Need some more words there. I dont own or have access to a Tricaster so
I can not debug the tricaster. No money for one either.

Bob

Bobt
07-26-2006, 12:01 PM
>Isn't the TriCaster officially a closed system to plug-ins?
YES but 3rd Channel can be altered to be a stand alone Exe running form a
USB drive (if it worked on a Tricaster)

Bob

Bobt
07-26-2006, 12:22 PM
One last note,
Since I released the plugin about a month ago I have sold 10 units
and had no complaints.
So with the right hardware this plugins is quite cool.

Bob