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View Full Version : Apple Introduces Boot Camp



ingo
04-05-2006, 07:54 AM
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2006/apr/05bootcamp.html

How far have we come ? So who cares if M$ updates VirtualPC or not...

DiscreetFX
04-05-2006, 08:00 AM
This just might be a death blow to Windows OEMs (DELL, Gateway, etc). Especially ones like Gateway that are already struggling to find any customers. No love lost there though since they botched the Amiga purchase.

antibob
04-05-2006, 08:18 AM
Anyone running > windows XP on a > MacBook Pro > With lightwave 8.5?
Just wondering How things run. This may push me over the edge to get a Mac for home use (once again).

thanks,
ab

eblu
04-05-2006, 08:51 AM
actually,
I'm probably Never going to run either, but VirtualPC at least lets you run Windows without rebooting. I would say that the virtualization rumors are leading up to that.

pantone
04-05-2006, 12:44 PM
Does NT allow you to run and Mac and Windows version of LW off the same hardware lock?

This could be a great interim step while they work out their UB version of LW.

Tony3d
04-05-2006, 12:57 PM
I'm wondering if this could spell the death of OSX software. If the Mac runs windows, why should these companies write two version's? I think Mac OSX should have run on Windows machines. This should bring Mac Games to a halt and fast.

jeremyhardin
04-05-2006, 01:00 PM
Does NT allow you to run and Mac and Windows version of LW off the same hardware lock?

This could be a great interim step while they work out their UB version of LW.

yep. different lock id, but same dongle. and both mac and pc version included on the install cd. i'll definitely be taking advantage of this.

griggsyboy
04-05-2006, 01:15 PM
if anyone can get lw 8.5 for xp running on an intel iMac with bootcamp i will a) throw up b) be screaming to my apple store.......let me know

jeremyhardin
04-05-2006, 01:17 PM
dude, they have 3dsmax 8 and softimage working on the hacked, no-drivers version. i'm almost positive the official stuff will run any software windows will on a pc. the only difference at all is no custom/3rd party drivers just yet and no remote/isight.

griggsyboy
04-05-2006, 01:18 PM
bootcamp seems to have drivers for the ATI card, does this mean alll should be gravy, i probably will take the plunge, but would just to be the 2nd guinea pig

jeremyhardin
04-05-2006, 01:34 PM
yep. all drivers there and official. all should be gravy. and if you give it a week or two, i might just beat you and let you be the 2nd guinea pig. :D

griggsyboy
04-05-2006, 01:41 PM
race ya! i doubt i will hold out past saturday :D

griggsyboy
04-05-2006, 02:41 PM
i couldnt hold out - ordered online as wanted 256 mb ATI card, which you can't get at an apple retail store - 2gb of ram as well - should do i reckon

jeremyhardin
04-05-2006, 02:45 PM
****. well let me know how it goes. i can't wait to get fusion, xsi, and lw on it.

(now to convince my wife we NEED it. hehe.)

Ade
04-05-2006, 06:11 PM
So what sort of drivers are we waiting on???????

jeremyhardin
04-05-2006, 06:27 PM
none. apple released the drivers we were missing (sound and ati video). as well as the ability to dual boot without getting into unix commands or wiping the original os x partition.

riki
04-05-2006, 07:26 PM
Interesting times ahead, but makes a lot of sense.

byte_fx
04-05-2006, 08:48 PM
All well and good - as far as it goes.

Saw several postings around that say Intel Leopard will be able to run any combo of Mac. XP and Linux OS's at the same time.

But you'll need Power Mac type memory capacity to make it reasonably useful. And some real speedy cpus.

And so far Intel Tiger seems to be limited to 32 bit.

Hope that changes - and in a way that Newtek will come out with a 64 bit unified version.

byte_fx

Gui Lo
04-06-2006, 04:11 AM
Do we really need NewTek to do more Mac versions?

If developers can make the apps recognise the hardware then the apps may be able to take advantage of features of the OS.

Tony3d
04-06-2006, 05:31 AM
I don't get it. This just gives the software developers another reason to back out of the Mac market. Why should they develop for the Mac when the Mac runs Windows? Makes no sense. People say, but now you can make a direct comparison. To what? When there is no Mac OSX software to run. It would have made more sense to have Mac OSX run on Windows machines! That would have encouraged more Mac development. The first market to go will be games. Developers have been looking for any reason to pull out of that. Apps like Photoshop, Lightwave, and Maya will pull out and save a ton on costs. Why write for the Mac when the Mac run windows. I can here it now. "Do you have a Mac version"? Oh no, but your Mac now runs Windows, just boot up into that. The only thing that might save them is if Apple Writes all these pro apps themselves and make them very innovative.

DiscreetFX
04-06-2006, 08:24 AM
I don't think that will happen Tony3d. Macs used to support booting in Classic Mac OS or OS X but developers still created lots of OS X apps. Don't forget Apple's software division generates over a billion dollars a year from all of their software tools. Developers enjoy using X-Code and developing apps in the X enviroment.

pantone
04-06-2006, 08:45 AM
Just because you can run windows on a Mac doesn't mean a developer can suddenly ignore the Mac OS market.

You have to keep in mind that the ability to run Windows only 3D applications is a big hit in our (smallish) galaxy. There is, however, a much bigger pool of OSX users who have no need or interest in running both OSes on the Mac.

I agree that it could put off companies like Avid or Discreet from investing in ports of XSI and Max, but for companies that have already invested in porting to the Mac it doesn't make sense to ababndon that investment. If anything they should see bundling opportunities for increased revenue.

fxgeek
04-06-2006, 09:30 AM
The idea that developers are suddenly going to abandon the mac is ludicurous. First of all, if anything this will drive more people to the platform. If a developer sees that more people are using a piece of software on a mac, they can see there is an interest in their software my mac users, and they are more inclined to develop a native version.

People seem to think that software developers are out to screw everyone. This is not true in the vast majority of cases. Dual booting is far from an ideal solution for running a piece of software. If a developer uses this as an excuse to leave the mac platform then they did not understand their market in the first place. Mac users are macusers because of the OS first and the hardware second. Any developer with a grain of intelligence will understand this.

by allowing the Mac to boot windows, Apple has opened up the platform to those who wanted to buy a mac but were on the fence, either due to a large software investment or the need to run a particular piece of software. As these people start using Apple hardware and expirement with osx they will want less and less to have to boot into windows if they like to osx environment.

Peopleneed to stop going chicken little over this. By the arguments being used here, linux should have died at birth and would see no development. This is not the end of the world. This is not the end of the mac, if anything this strengthens the platform.

DiscreetFX
04-06-2006, 09:33 AM
Well said pantone, developers can't count on Mac users running XP just because they can. They would still have to go out a buy a full Windows license after all before Bootcamp will even work on their Mac. DiscreetFX is a Mac OS X developer and Bootcamp does not change any of our plans for our Mac ports.

Scazzino
04-06-2006, 11:17 AM
Run any OS within a Mac OS X window...

Mac OS X, one OS to rule them all... (http://www.parallels.com/en/products/workstation/mac/) ;)

Gui Lo
04-06-2006, 06:47 PM
The Switch campaign didn't work and the Mac Mini and iPod "halo" effect is doing slightly better but the main thing that is stopping most people is that a Mac simply does not run Windows software. Now there is no reason to stop Wintel software users from switching.

Is this the reason Apple went for Intel?

Apple are now the first company to offer a product to 99% of desktop users.

This only offers more software choice to the Mac users. Some software developers will stop supporting Mac natively but others will not because there are features in OSX that cannot be found in Windows.

Ade
04-06-2006, 07:30 PM
UPDATE -
Paralells virtualisation software http://www.parallels.com/en/products/workstation/

Run windows while in Mac OS.

avkills
04-07-2006, 05:07 AM
I doubt major software developers like Newtek or Adobe will cease development for the Mac OS. Case in point; I don't want to dual boot every other hour to switch between using AfterEffects, Lightwave and Final Cut Pro to get my work done. No other professionals will either.

If companies stop OS X development the very simple fact is that they will lose my business and my support of their products.

Games I could care less if I need to dual boot, but you can't have dual booting part of a professional workflow. Even Windows within OS X running in a OS X Window is not going to cut it.

-mark

vee
04-07-2006, 06:18 AM
You can forget Mac development. After 20 years, if most companies don't develop for the mac, they definitly won't start now.

From this day forth the "mac" version will be a bundled CD with XP on it.

Tony3d
04-07-2006, 06:18 AM
Dual Boot will be replaced by instant switching between OS's with months!

avkills
04-07-2006, 02:06 PM
You can forget Mac development. After 20 years, if most companies don't develop for the mac, they definitly won't start now.

From this day forth the "mac" version will be a bundled CD with XP on it.

Uh, whatever man. Maya (sorry Newtek forums ;) ) is a pretty recent App to make it to OS X. In fact, the only reason it did come to the Mac was because of OS X being a variant of Unix.

Apple going to x86 chips will make it a no brainer for companies to re-compile for the Mac OS. About all that will need to change is the hooks to the GUI and any file i/o routines for disk access.

-mark

Johnny
04-07-2006, 05:30 PM
I'm wondering if this could spell the death of OSX software. If the Mac runs windows, why should these companies write two version's? I think Mac OSX should have run on Windows machines. This should bring Mac Games to a halt and fast.

At first glance, yeah, but really, all you'd have is Windows running in a different plastic box, and places that have a Mac-based workflow, plus decades' worth of legacy files aren't going to be into ditching that, and taking on all the debugging and dekinking to flip over to Windows.

Just because windows can run on a Mac doesn't make it less windows-ish.

J

vee
04-07-2006, 07:04 PM
About all that will need to change is the hooks to the GUI and any file i/o routines for disk access.

-mark

Better tell this bit of news to the LW9 developers
:)

avkills
04-07-2006, 10:39 PM
Better tell this bit of news to the LW9 developers
:)

Well I am over generalizing it a bit, but you all should be smart enough to figure out what I meant. It is not like they have to start from scratch.

The only reason it would take longer is if you "wanted" to code it in xCode and compile for the PowerPC also. I think strictly doing a Mac-Intel compile would not be that big of a deal.

I've seen Newtek go from Moto 680xx to Alpha to Sparc to PowerPC to x86 to whose knows what next.

-mark

DiscreetFX
04-07-2006, 11:08 PM
I've seen Newtek go from Moto 680xx to Alpha to Sparc to PowerPC to x86 to whose knows what next.

-mark


NewTek even had Lightwave 3D running on my Toaster Oven back in the day.


:lwicon:

avkills
04-07-2006, 11:42 PM
NewTek even had Lightwave 3D running on my Toaster Oven back in the day.


:lwicon:

Yes I have one of those things at work...hidden deep. But I think it still works. :D

-mark

DiscreetFX
04-08-2006, 12:26 AM
Does it look like this avkills?

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&hs=ygl&safe=active&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&sa=N&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=amiga%20toaster%20oven&spell=1&percentage_served=100&tab=wi

Lightwolf
04-08-2006, 03:44 AM
Apple going to x86 chips will make it a no brainer for companies to re-compile for the Mac OS. About all that will need to change is the hooks to the GUI and any file i/o routines for disk access.

That is a common misconception. The main issue with porting software is usually the OS, not the hardware it is running on (with the exception of assembler optimized code and endian issues).
So running on x86 hardware doesn't really make porting a lot easier.

Cheers,
Mike

avkills
04-08-2006, 09:58 AM
That is a common misconception. The main issue with porting software is usually the OS, not the hardware it is running on (with the exception of assembler optimized code and endian issues).
So running on x86 hardware doesn't really make porting a lot easier.

Cheers,
Mike

Yeah but the only things that are different are the hooks to the GUI and the file i/o. I was kind of implying that the GUI hooks is talking to the OS. I know I am making it sound easy, I know it is not "real easy", but good programmers do this stuff all the time, so it is not like they are treading into unknown waters.

-mark

avkills
04-08-2006, 09:59 AM
Does it look like this avkills?

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&hs=ygl&safe=active&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&sa=N&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=amiga%20toaster%20oven&spell=1&percentage_served=100&tab=wi

No I am afraid it is just a Amiga4000 with a Toaster in it. I have not fired it up in years.

-mark

griggsyboy
04-13-2006, 05:49 AM
got imac >got xp> got bootcamp> all worked - xp on mac, stuck on lightwave with usb dongle drivers, got my biggest lwmodel (havent stuck any content or plugins yet, just base programme) - my god dave its full of stars with the 20" screen lwave 8.5 works flawlessly will do some render tests over weekend - but its good people and if you do your xp format as fat32 os x can see the partition.

so lightwave 8.5 works on pc under bootcamp
also got battlefield 2 to run at max res, my imac is the best gaming pc ive owned - which is a bit dirty!

Ade
04-13-2006, 07:56 PM
WARNING - Lost my whole HARDDRIVE.

Bootcamp bug not allowing windows mode to switch back to mac mode.
Had to refotmat my whole HD.

http://www.macnn.com/articles/06/04/13/boot.camp.flaw.found/


Sooooo mad!

jeremyhardin
04-13-2006, 08:19 PM
sorry to hear that mate. that's rough.

Gui Lo
04-13-2006, 08:49 PM
Anybody even thinking of using a public beta needs to backup their work.
I hope you did Ade.

Sorry, but it sounds like an April fools gag. "Macs can only run Windows" or worse still "Macs prefer to run Windows".

How embarrassing for Apple.

Lightwolf
04-14-2006, 04:40 AM
I know I am making it sound easy, I know it is not "real easy", but good programmers do this stuff all the time, so it is not like they are treading into unknown waters.

No, but many people seem to imply that the switch to intel hardware made porting to OSX easier, which is not the case (due to the reasons you'Ve outlined - in an _extremely_ simplyfied fashion).

Cheers,
Mike

riki
04-14-2006, 05:24 AM
Hey Ade, ouch that's a nasty gottcha. Sorry to hear that.

I just got finished backing my whole system and all my external hard drives up onto DVD

mnbear
04-14-2006, 11:16 AM
I have Lightwave running on OSX on my dual 2.16 macbookpro flawlessly, installed bootcamp and then windows xp pro and Lightwave 8.5 and 9.0 and both work flawlessly.

The only problem that I've run into with bootcamp is that wireless keyboards and mice dont seem to work during the boot (selection) process.

Also, parallels has introduced its product for $39 (limited time) bucks that allows you to run Windows XP inside OSX, they allow you to download and test it out first, too. They also state that it runs at near "native performance". I havent had the chance to check this out yet, but will do so this weekend. I have to say that I'm very impressed with Bootcamp though, everything I have tried works flawlessly, including (cough) alot of Peecee games. If anyone is interested in some benchmarks re: speed, I can do that too, but it seems pretty darn fast in both OSX and WindowsXP.

ackees
04-14-2006, 01:32 PM
WARNING - Lost my whole HARDDRIVE.

Bootcamp bug not allowing windows mode to switch back to mac mode.
Had to refotmat my whole HD.

http://www.macnn.com/articles/06/04/13/boot.camp.flaw.found/


Sooooo mad!

What could work is to open up the MacBook (if you can), unplug the hard drive, connect an external hard drive with Mac OS on it, make that drive the default boot drive, turn off the MacBook, reconnect the drive. Once you are up get your files. I have had to do this in the past when caught by a murderously bad system on a disk.

asmith47
04-15-2006, 04:58 PM
WARNING - Lost my whole HARDDRIVE.

Bootcamp bug not allowing windows mode to switch back to mac mode.
Had to refotmat my whole HD.

http://www.macnn.com/articles/06/04/13/boot.camp.flaw.found/


Sooooo mad!

I THOUGHT that happened to me. You need to hold down the "OPTION" key while booting to get the dual boot menu. Next time, don't panic.:tsktsk:

jeremyhardin
04-15-2006, 05:07 PM
How 'bout don't panic if the Option key works. From the reports, this isn't just a bunch of folks that haven't read the manual.

asmith47
04-15-2006, 05:26 PM
How 'bout don't panic if the Option key works. From the reports, this isn't just a bunch of folks that haven't read the manual.

I would be willing to bet that these users formatted their MAC partition during the XP install. Or didn't update their firmware. Or something. Since we didn't sit over their shoulder taking notes, we can't really say. The question is, why would this work on my machine using the same hardware, software etc. Well, I followed the instructions for one thing. :D

griggsyboy
04-16-2006, 02:25 AM
have to agree - if you follow the instructions ( i even foramtted fat 32) its a doddle, did need to install firmware and reapir my disk using the os x boot disk but the bootcamp app took me through all of that

Stooch
04-29-2006, 06:58 AM
“Apple has no desire or plan to sell or support Windows, but many customers have expressed their interest to run Windows on Apple’s superior hardware now that we use Intel processors,” said Philip Schiller, Apple’s senior vice president of Worldwide Product Marketing.

When are they going to cut it out with the "superior hardware" bullsh|t??? i mean they have gone so far as to completely rip off the pc architecture down to the CPU and still claim to have superior hardware. its mind boggling.

Johnny
04-29-2006, 08:45 AM
When are they going to cut it out with the "superior hardware" bullsh|t??? i mean they have gone so far as to completely rip off the pc architecture down to the CPU and still claim to have superior hardware. its mind boggling.


probably when m$ knocks off braggin' on their own plug n play superiority of longtooth.

;-)


J

Stooch
04-29-2006, 02:49 PM
what does microsoft have to do with my question?

MS doesnt tout that it runs on superior hardware, there is no need for that since anyone who knows about hardware already knows this fact.

asmith47
04-30-2006, 07:36 AM
When are they going to cut it out with the "superior hardware" bullsh|t??? i mean they have gone so far as to completely rip off the pc architecture down to the CPU and still claim to have superior hardware. its mind boggling.

I'll tell you about superior hardware. The IMac is one of the nicest pieces of industrial design I have ever used. Elegant. Beautiful screen. Silent. No bulky CPU under the desk collecting dust bunnies. I love my Mac. My first Mac, btw.

/of course when it needs service I'll be cussin :D

Anybody done any benchmarks? It seems very fast to me.

I am starting to love OSX too. I would have to bite and get PS and Office for MAC, but it might be worth it not to have to keep rebooting.

griggsyboy
04-30-2006, 07:44 AM
im mucking around with parrallels at the mo has anyone got lwave working in that yet?

asmith47
04-30-2006, 07:48 AM
And I guess until LW goes into unicode, the idea of abandoning XP is not gonna happen. :cursin:

Johnny
04-30-2006, 10:48 AM
what does microsoft have to do with my question?

MS doesnt tout that it runs on superior hardware, there is no need for that since anyone who knows about hardware already knows this fact.

you mean your hypothetical, who-on-earth-could-possibly-know-the-answer-but-steve-jobs question? m$ prbly doesn't tout its hardware, because it isn't a hardware company, whereas Apple is. Kind of a no-brainer, but you knew that, right?

As you gain more experience with computers and other consumer goods, you'll learn that all companies brag on their products. You'll also learn that some of the claims are true, some are BS.

But you'll find that very few companies will say "our product is lousy."

Again, sometimes THAT's true..sometimes not.

As far as slamming Apple's claim to have superior hardware, that's kind of a dumb move considering this is a MAC forum. In Mac fora, you tend to find people who like and use, erm...MACs!

Hoodathunkit! Gol-durn golly-gosh!

What would be the response if someone went to a PC forum and trashed all things PC and anyone stupid enough to use them?

Ya smack a hornets' nest, odds are you'll take a few stings.

J

Ade
04-30-2006, 06:11 PM
Jusy some wind of Apples next rendition of Boot Camp will be able to boot 3 os's like VPC could. Its being tested to run linux and Windows in the background like classic would.

Kuzey
05-01-2006, 03:23 AM
That's very cool news!!


You pc guys do know that micosoft wanted Apple to port OS X to windows because vista is soooooo dead and they are desparate :stumped: :stumped:

I see it as the beginng of big things for Apple :hey:

Kuzey