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KSTAR
03-30-2006, 01:41 PM
Has anyone read the new Lighwave newsletter? In the Nab 2006 announcement it says Newtek will be demoing SpeedEdit amongst other products. Is SpeedEdit the long awaited unbundled version of toaster edit :tongue:

SCS5
03-30-2006, 02:05 PM
After I got the email from Newtek I just came here to find out the same thing.??? What's SpeedEdit???Hmmmmmmm

No word on VT5 HD support yet though?

Jim Capillo
03-30-2006, 03:22 PM
Interesting..... got a link ?

chribba
03-30-2006, 03:24 PM
Here is something :)

http://www.sharbor.com/news/1337.html

chribba

KSTAR
03-30-2006, 04:28 PM
You can get the LW9 newsletter from the main page, but its pretty much the same as the Safe Harbor site.

Hmmmmm Speeeeeeed Ediiiiiiiiiiiit, what is it? I sure hope its what I think it is. Actually any kind of new editing tools functions at this point would be a great compliment to TED.

robewil
03-30-2006, 04:54 PM
Yes, the name is interesting. You don't suppose it has any of the code from another, now defunct, editing software with the name "Speed" in it?

Gary Robinson
03-30-2006, 05:03 PM
"Speededit' is actually a great name for a TED related edit system, because VT's edit interface is easily the fastest I've used.

ted
03-30-2006, 05:46 PM
If this is true, Speed Edit is much better then TED or VTEdit. Now when a client asks, (like today), what do you post on, I can say Speed Edit by NewTek. They might not have heard of it for a while, but it sounds Coooooool! :thumbsup:
I like it.

John Perkins
03-30-2006, 08:29 PM
You don't suppose it has any of the code from another, now defunct, editing software with the name "Speed" in it?

No Razor code here, it's all home grown. ;)

Brian Peterson
03-30-2006, 09:08 PM
25 days until we know the truth... This sucks, this sucks!

Watch we'll need VT5 to get HD support...

whoops I just noticed it says VT5... details please! Waiting is so hard.

robewil
03-30-2006, 10:57 PM
No Razor code here, it's all home grown. ;)
It was just a thought.

JReble
03-31-2006, 07:25 AM
So are you sayin' it's time for Paul to roll out his new sig......

"VT5, now with HD support.....so shut the **** up already!"

Jim Capillo
03-31-2006, 09:07 AM
So are you sayin' it's time for Paul to roll out his new sig......

"VT5, now with HD support.....so shut the **** up already!"


LOL! :D

joseburgos
03-31-2006, 09:23 AM
So other than we would need a PCI Express mother board (rumor), we do not know if VT5 will be a new board or a daughter board for HD video.

Also if Speededit is stand alone software, would it handle HD but not realtime for post work.

Lots to speculate about :)

Take care,
Jose Burgos

Paul Lara
03-31-2006, 10:02 AM
So other than we would need a PCI Express mother board (rumor), we do not know if VT5 will be a new board or a daughter board for HD video.

Actually, it seems no one has noticed the VT[5] Specifications Page (http://www.newtek.com/vt/requirements.php).

:D

billmi
03-31-2006, 10:11 AM
Actually, it seems no one has noticed the VT[5] Specifications Page (http://www.newtek.com/vt/requirements.php).

:D

C'Mon Paul, you should know by now, it's so much easier for us all to speculate than actually
read. I'm expecting people to post that they will have to sell their VT and look for something else if HD isn't supported soon - for another 6 months after an HD solution is shipping. :-)

It is quite pleasing to see this on the new specs:


* 4x 10,00 RPM U160 or U320 SCSI drives, with the controller on a 64bit PCI bus (preferred); or 4x software-striped SATA drives

For Hi Definition editing, dual CPUs or dual dual-core CPUs are suggested for the smoothest and fastest operation.

ScorpioProd
03-31-2006, 10:34 AM
Yipee! A SATA stripe is now OFFICIALLY endorsed! :thumbsup:

nevmoor
03-31-2006, 01:07 PM
OO!! OOO! OOOOO!!

Now the next round of complaints begin!

I bought VT4.6 in December.Are you telling me I have to buy a whole new.....blah blah!!!



The natives will never be satisfied but I am SOO HYPED about VT5 HD BABY!!!
QUAD CORE MANIA!!!

joseburgos
03-31-2006, 01:09 PM
So you do not need a PCI Express to edit HD, from what I just read.
And I may have to upgrade my VT board again (swear I just did that last year) for the new VT[5] board with VT[5] software for HD capability.

Please correct where I am wrong in my speculations :)

Jose Burgos

billmi
03-31-2006, 01:36 PM
Considering that


NewTek is providing free software upgrades for VT[5], when it ships, to all VT[4] purchases after February 1, 2006

I would be surprised if you needed to upgrade your board.

ScorpioProd
03-31-2006, 02:17 PM
So you do not need a PCI Express to edit HD, from what I just read.
And I may have to upgrade my VT board again (swear I just did that last year) for the new VT[5] board with VT[5] software for HD capability.

Please correct where I am wrong in my speculations :)

Jose Burgos

Nothing in their specs suggests that. A "VT[5]" would have a "VT[5] card", even if nothing has changed. But I run VT[4] 4.6c on my VTNT card. :)

cholo
03-31-2006, 02:42 PM
And you don't even need an array if you work with NT25 HD files :) I do that already from my system drive.
Actually, it must be around 10 MB/s for a 1080 file. Great codec. Here's an idea... Why not make a box with
a single 250GB drive, SDI and TC input and some sort of LCD display to record on the field directly into NT25?
You could use the same boxes you use for tricasters, but with some sort of battery. Just an idea :)

joseburgos
03-31-2006, 02:47 PM
Nothing in their specs suggests that. A "VT[5]" would have a "VT[5] card", even if nothing has changed. But I run VT[4] 4.6c on my VTNT card. :)

Yeah but VT[4] software works on VT[3] cards but as the Newtek web page matrix http://www.newtek.com/vt/matrix.php shows, there are things that you can not do unless you upgrade the card.

So I do hope your theory is right in that the VT[4] board will do HD without a hardware upgrade/addon :)

Jose Burgos

Brian Peterson
03-31-2006, 04:22 PM
Actually, it seems no one has noticed the VT[5] Specifications Page (http://www.newtek.com/vt/requirements.php).:D

I just noticed something, I was hoping the next generation would run on Windows 64 XP. the specifications page only says windows XP service pack 2. I really hope the drivers will exist to run it on 64 bit chips. I hate the thought of building a computer with dual 64 bit processors and can't run 64 bit! :compbeati

UnCommonGrafx
03-31-2006, 05:22 PM
I'm gonna miss all the first-hand excitement in 'Vegas...

But I'm glad to see some of (what I speculate) our dreams come even further.

Hey Brian, you don't really think they need to be committed, do you? ;)

jport
03-31-2006, 06:07 PM
i can't wait for VT5 sounds promising.

Speed Edit sounds like "VT Express" aka "Premiere Elements" aka "Final Cut Express" aka "AVID Xpress". probably with that one click bells and whistles set-up. you know click a button and your CGs go flying across the screen in a spectacular intro, no muss no fuss.

if they can incorportate that in VT5 i'll be a happy puppy.

johnhuebbe
03-31-2006, 07:06 PM
Sounds good, but CRAP!!! I finally saved up enough money to upgrade to VT 4.6 and purchased it this past January 2006, and I see on the requirements page (http://www.newtek.com/vt/requirements.php) that had I waited until February 1, 2006 "NewTek is providing free software upgrades for VT[5], when it ships, to all VT[4] purchases after February 1, 2006"

DOH! :(

ScorpioProd
03-31-2006, 11:05 PM
Yeah but VT[4] software works on VT[3] cards but as the Newtek web page matrix http://www.newtek.com/vt/matrix.php shows, there are things that you can not do unless you upgrade the card.

So I do hope your theory is right in that the VT[4] board will do HD without a hardware upgrade/addon :)

Jose Burgos

Just "live" things, nothing for "post" in those features noted... ;)

Heck, I originally believed the 66MHz in the VT[4] card was needed for those features, turns out it wasn't. That was only done for compatibility, not for any of the new features. That surprised me.

Again, I'm not saying "the VT[4] board will do HD", I'm saying the board is superflouous for HD. HD/HDV is via firewire nowadays.

ScorpioProd
03-31-2006, 11:06 PM
I just noticed something, I was hoping the next generation would run on Windows 64 XP. the specifications page only says windows XP service pack 2. I really hope the drivers will exist to run it on 64 bit chips. I hate the thought of building a computer with dual 64 bit processors and can't run 64 bit! :compbeati

Do any of the other NLEs run in 64-bit XP yet?

eon5
04-01-2006, 07:11 AM
VT5 HD or VT5 HDV ?

which HDTV formats could i edit in real time ?

what about the real time effects ?

Keith Gandy
04-01-2006, 08:06 AM
UGH. Missed the Feb. 1st date by buying VT4 32 days earlier. Ouch.

johnhuebbe
04-01-2006, 08:30 AM
UGH. Missed the Feb. 1st date by buying VT4 32 days earlier. Ouch.

:agree: (actually it was 28 days)

Maybe :newtek: NewTek can make an exception for me :D

Brian Peterson
04-01-2006, 08:57 AM
VT5 HD or VT5 HDV ?

I'm going to guess the spectrum of HD. Andrew was requesting Panasonic HD footage a few months ago for experimentation. So it they are supporting that, HDV and all the others I would think is going to be easy.

Who cares if it is real time, I just want what we need. It's newtek after all if it isn't real time it will still be fast.

ScorpioProd
04-01-2006, 09:30 AM
Well, Newtek has just about always beat any other software based real-time editing systems in the past... And Canopus EDIUS can do even HDV really well in real-time... So I expect Newtek will as well.

KSTAR
04-01-2006, 09:39 AM
With the ability to edit in HD or HDV in VT5, I wonder if we will still be locked into video 29.9/30 FPS, or will film 24 FPS editing now be possible as well?

joseburgos
04-01-2006, 09:42 AM
24fps would open a few doors.

KSTAR
04-01-2006, 09:50 AM
Yeah that could be a thorn in FCP's side, and a huge coup for digital film makers in general, especially independant film makers.

If by chance SpeedEdit is an unbundled new version of TED and would also support 24 FPS, boy imagine the possibilities :bowdown:

Keith Nealy
04-01-2006, 10:38 AM
"For Hi Definition editing, dual CPUs or dual dual-core CPUs are suggested for the smoothest and fastest operation."

This may be the most positive indication yet!

Aloha,

Keith

PeteF
04-01-2006, 06:45 PM
OO!! OOO! OOOOO!!

Now the next round of complaints begin!

I bought VT4.6 in December.Are you telling me I have to buy a whole new.....blah blah!!!...

This is why I stuck it out with VT3 and just skip version 4 - a good gamble. Now with v5, I can stuff my new BOXX Dual-core 7400 with a significant piece of hardware. (Rats, I was looking forward to reconfiguring VT3 : )

Pete

harlan
04-04-2006, 03:16 PM
So are you sayin' it's time for Paul to roll out his new sig......

"VT5, now with HD support.....so shut the **** up already!"

LOL!!!!! That was toooo funny!!

wbd12
04-04-2006, 04:54 PM
Probably no has noticed a VT5 page because your link goes to a VT4 spec page.

Zane Condren
04-04-2006, 04:57 PM
the specs have been updated for VT5, that is the correct link.

joseburgos
04-04-2006, 06:48 PM
What about a teaser screen shot/shots and/or some wmv's of new features :)

Seti Orion
04-04-2006, 10:09 PM
So what do you guys think

VT 5 HD addon card shipping within 3 to 6 months?

takabanana
04-04-2006, 10:42 PM
IF SpeedEdit is an unbundled VTEdit, I would love to see a bundle deal...
VT[5] with SpeedEdit upgrade.
OR.. include ONE copy of SpeedEdit with every copy of VT[5] as a standard. I think that would be awesome too (so you can edit on super-high end, but when you have to be away, you can still edit on your laptop).

billmi
04-05-2006, 06:25 AM
So what do you guys think

VT 5 HD addon card shipping within 3 to 6 months?

Considering that NewTek has said that people who bought VT[4] this spring get a free software upgrade to VT[5], I'm not expecting an addon card.

Lightwolf
04-05-2006, 07:14 AM
Do any of the other NLEs run in 64-bit XP yet?
Well, Blackmagic at least have drivers that allow 32bit editing software to use their boards when running XP64.

Cheers,
Mike

KSTAR
04-06-2006, 03:41 PM
Looks like my wish for 24 FPS has been fufilled :thumbsup: take a look

http://cgfocus.com/news/story/2217

Cineman
04-06-2006, 05:32 PM
Looks like my wish for 24 FPS has been fufilled :thumbsup: take a look

http://cgfocus.com/news/story/2217
I looked Kevin, but did not find anything there from which you could draw that conclusion.

Nes Gurley

ted
04-06-2006, 07:10 PM
I think it's because of the following quote...:hey:
"...which features our new resolution-independent, frame-rate independent editing engine within SpeedEdit"

Randall Chesbro
04-06-2006, 07:10 PM
I looked Kevin, but did not find anything there from which you could draw that conclusion.

Nes Gurley

It says frame rate independent. doent that mean anything?

Cineman
04-06-2006, 08:16 PM
...which features our new resolution-independent, frame-rate independent editing engine within SpeedEdit"
I took that as referring to input to the editor.

So you folks believe that it will output projects with mixed resolutions and frame rates? I read it as saying that the editor will handle those as inputs, and not saying anything about what it will output.

Nes Gurley

eon5
04-06-2006, 08:57 PM
NewTek, makers of VideoToaster and LightWave are looking for your 16:9 standard-def clips or HDV clips. Paul Lara of NewTek wants to know if you have any gorgeous footage NewTek could use for their video demos at NAB this year

We l want to show off our new edit capabilities at the show, which features our new resolution-independent, frame-rate independent editing engine within SpeedEdit and VT[5]." says Paul.


for their video demos... hdv source footage making sd video demos have no sense (for me)

KSTAR
04-06-2006, 09:07 PM
Yeah I definately interpret that as being able to edit in other frame rates than SD. I sure hope Im right because being able to edit at 24fps opens up a huge opportunity for more clients

Brian Peterson
04-06-2006, 10:18 PM
Since Newtek is leaking like a seive about the upcoming SpeedEdit and VT5 maybe we could get an answer on something: Will a new card with HD outputs be available to those who want to preview an HD source image? I think it's pretty safe to assume that we will need a card, is Newtek going to offer one?

ScorpioProd
04-06-2006, 11:50 PM
If you're looking to "preview" your HD from it, why not use your graphics card?

ScorpioProd
04-06-2006, 11:51 PM
I took that as referring to input to the editor.

So you folks believe that it will output projects with mixed resolutions and frame rates? I read it as saying that the editor will handle those as inputs, and not saying anything about what it will output.

Nes Gurley

I also take it to mean in and out of the editor.

Paul Lara
04-07-2006, 05:43 AM
Will a new card with HD outputs be available to those who want to preview an HD source image?

Full resolution previews will be available without any additional hardware.

joseburgos
04-07-2006, 05:58 AM
Full resolution previews will be available without any additional hardware.

Now I am even more excited :) :newtek:

Paul,
What about a teaser screen shot, wmv of a function...
Throw us a bone man :D

Take care,

Dillon
04-07-2006, 08:00 AM
I'm guessing Paul is talkin about using toaster vision as a "monitor". Or perhaps they have a way to send the HD signal out the 2nd head of a dual head graphics card (like FCP does on digital preview).

What I want to know is - how does someone like me (who still has VT2) use his old card to ingest and output HD besides firewire?

Also - I'd like to be able to send an HD signal directly to a plasma TV i'll be getting eventually so I can present WIPS or finals on the large plasma display directly out of the toaster. How will VT5 enable me to do that?


Full resolution previews will be available without any additional hardware.

Brian Peterson
04-07-2006, 08:44 AM
If you're looking to "preview" your HD from it, why not use your graphics card?

Because I prefer to use an outboard professional monitor for color correction and such. I've never had much luck with setting up a computer monitor correctly for such. Also I prefer using a dual monitor setup for the computer and dedicating a connector from my graphics card for the outboard monitor would sort of ruin that.

The Pope
04-07-2006, 09:22 AM
Then simply get another dual head video card for your computer. That is what I have set up. VT spans three monitors and one slot left which you could configure for preview

David
04-07-2006, 10:23 PM
This is why I stuck it out with VT3 and just skip version 4 - a good gamble. Now with v5, I can stuff my new BOXX Dual-core 7400 with a significant piece of hardware. (Rats, I was looking forward to reconfiguring VT3 : )
Pete

I know, I shouldn't say this "BUT I TOLD YOU SO!" My VT[3] works great for me there was no real reason to buy VT[4]!!!:thumbsdow

David
04-07-2006, 10:49 PM
What about a teaser screen shot/shots and/or some wmv's of new features :)

Why Not!:devil: :devil: Its like those night clubs you see with a line around the block then when you get inside the place is empty. It's all about advertising, marketing, and promotion. All this my friends = Sales:devil:

radams
04-07-2006, 11:56 PM
I'm guessing Paul is talkin about using toaster vision as a "monitor". Or perhaps they have a way to send the HD signal out the 2nd head of a dual head graphics card (like FCP does on digital preview).

What I want to know is - how does someone like me (who still has VT2) use his old card to ingest and output HD besides firewire?

Also - I'd like to be able to send an HD signal directly to a plasma TV i'll be getting eventually so I can present WIPS or finals on the large plasma display directly out of the toaster. How will VT5 enable me to do that?

Well First, most of the affordable HD options are thru firewire...NT's existing hardware is NOT HDSDI compatible...from what I understand....But realize that your VT is your SD output option...so that you can work with BOTH HD and SD....

Also if you look at the other HD options...Panasonic's P2 or Sony's XDcamHD...both use MXF and digital storage...so why would you need to digitize it ???

Now if you understand what NT is stating...they are talking about a NLE/POST independent framerate-resolution solution...NOT a LIVE Switcher solution at this time... But no one else has a HD cost effective solution either...

(maybe NAB-07...;)

Also understand that even the NEW camera's are starting to come with Giga ethernet output... Think...Why would you need HDSDI...if you could connect it thru your standard off the shelf cables and connections...BTW...when was the last time you saw a BNC cable or connection sold in common stores ?

Now as for your Plasma or other HD monitoring....MOST will have DVI or HDMI...or Analog HD....For half the price of those SAME panels with HDSDI input...

So now if you can output thru the graphics card output...you can setup one output as your HD OUTPUT...in DVI, HDMI (thru a converter), or even analog HD...and that is with a $200 graphics card....Why do you need to spend Thousands to monitor your output...with your input already digitized...why?

I think NT is VERY understanding of these changes...
NT will show us all the pathway they see that can help to move us forward with.

Cheers,

ted
04-08-2006, 12:59 AM
I know, I shouldn't say this "BUT I TOLD YOU SO!" My VT[3] works great for me there was no real reason to buy VT[4]!!!:thumbsdow

I've made good money with my VT4, and will again with Speed Edit. You can save even more if you wait for Speed Edit 9. :hey:

David
04-08-2006, 01:58 AM
I've made good money with my VT4, and will again with Speed Edit. You can save even more if you wait for Speed Edit 9. :hey:

I've made good money with VT[3] you can wait for what you want for your needs and I'll do the same!:thumbsup:

PeteF
04-10-2006, 01:49 PM
David. I wasn't using my VT3 enough to justify a complete upgrade. Most of my stuff is corporate powerpoint w/video and animation for booth. I either project this stuff on a wall, or present it on HDTV monitors. I wanted 720p, and the VT4 didn't have the resolution. Yet I could do it with plain old PPro 1.5 and cineform plugin (the free one that came bundled, believe it or not). I just started cutting hi-def rez, using 4:3 video material framed alonside the PPT slides. With LW I could render 720p stuff from LW without too much of a hit, and make animations in HD that stand out.

Still, PPro needs help in the still/sequences department. I could muscle it with Matrox Axio, but at $$$$, I think going VT5 so I can edit in HD is a better deal. I haven't really taken a serious look, I'm bogged down with work, only coming up for air during long renders -like now.

I don't want to give up the VT, as I still get the occasional live event, old media to DVD, and even still can you give me a VHS request. Besides, this will be it's third PC to find a home in. I've never had a piece of hardware endure so much and keep ticking (bought when it was VTNT). I have some respect for that card. Although I rarely open it up now, something tells me that times a coming when I'll rarely close it.

John Perkins
04-10-2006, 02:15 PM
So now if you can output thru the graphics card output...you can setup one output as your HD OUTPUT...in DVI, HDMI (thru a converter), or even analog HD...and that is with a $200 graphics card

Not that I'm saying anything feature-wise, but I've seen decent Nvidia PCIe cards with component HD for $80.

radams
04-10-2006, 03:12 PM
Not that I'm saying anything feature-wise, but I've seen decent Nvidia PCIe cards with component HD for $80.

Yeah, John, I know...I was just trying to give some pad to wiggle in ;)


I should also have stated it better this way...

"So now "IF" you can output thru the graphics card output...you can setup one output as your HD OUTPUT...in DVI, HDMI (thru a converter), or even analog HD...and that is with a $200 graphics card....Why do you need to spend Thousands to monitor your output...with your input already digitized...why?"

Since NT has not stated how they plan to output HD at this time....thou going out thru the graphic's card makes the most common, technical, and economical sense.

Cheers,

joseburgos
04-10-2006, 05:28 PM
Full resolution previews will be available without any additional hardware.

Did not Paul clear this up already with the above statement :)


Take care,

Jim Capillo
04-10-2006, 08:48 PM
Preview is a different animal than output....

David
04-11-2006, 12:43 AM
David. I wasn't using my VT3 enough to justify a complete upgrade. Most of my stuff is corporate powerpoint w/video and animation for booth. I either project this stuff on a wall, or present it on HDTV monitors. I wanted 720p, and the VT4 didn't have the resolution. Yet I could do it with plain old PPro 1.5 and cineform plugin (the free one that came bundled, believe it or not). I just started cutting hi-def rez, using 4:3 video material framed alonside the PPT slides. With LW I could render 720p stuff from LW without too much of a hit, and make animations in HD that stand out.

Still, PPro needs help in the still/sequences department. I could muscle it with Matrox Axio, but at $$$$, I think going VT5 so I can edit in HD is a better deal. I haven't really taken a serious look, I'm bogged down with work, only coming up for air during long renders -like now.

I don't want to give up the VT, as I still get the occasional live event, old media to DVD, and even still can you give me a VHS request. Besides, this will be it's third PC to find a home in. I've never had a piece of hardware endure so much and keep ticking (bought when it was VTNT). I have some respect for that card. Although I rarely open it up now, something tells me that times a coming when I'll rarely close it.

I agree every piece of equipment especially VT[3] & VT[4] can be of use to someone with specific needs. It all depends on what your doing. I like my VT[3] because I can batch capture and still edit and the same time.

Lightwave has been a challenge to me also, with all of the rendering options it is realy easy to make a mistake. I recently rendered a 20 second animation 16x9 letterbox at the highest AA with volumetric lighting in an .mov Cineform codec and it took almost 2 days to render and the final product didn't even play. I had to start all over next time I'll just render a few frames to test and then tie up my workstation (dual Xeon 2.6, 533 FSB, 2 gigs of registered mem, 7 74GB Seagate Cheetah 15,000 RPM drives). Is that a normal render time for a dual Xeon?

I hope VT[5] also offers many improvements I can use. I have many clients that want HD or HDV. I enjoy this forum and all the feedback I get from the Newtek community, I have been mildly abrasive in the past because I was trying to push for an HD solution. I'd like to take this time to apologize if I offended anyone. I look forward to making a lot of money with VT[5]!!!

Jim Capillo
04-11-2006, 04:49 AM
........ it took almost 2 days to render and the final product didn't even play. I had to start all over next time I'll just render a few frames to test and then tie up my workstation (dual Xeon 2.6, 533 FSB, 2 gigs of registered mem, 7 74GB Seagate Cheetah 15,000 RPM drives). Is that a normal render time for a dual Xeon?


While I don't do a huge amount of LW rendering anymore, I would have to say it is normal ~ you had a lot of stuff turned on.

You could always ask over in the LW forums.

billmi
04-11-2006, 06:18 AM
I recently rendered a 20 second animation 16x9 letterbox at the highest AA with volumetric lighting in an .mov Cineform codec and it took almost 2 days to render and the final product didn't even play.

One bit of advice often handed out here is to always render still frames and compile them into an animation/video format later. The key reason is that if something interrupts rendering, you can pick up where you left off.

If I'm rendering something that will take longer than 20 minutes or so, I usually go for the best of both worlds - I render both to an RTV or whatever video codec, and to still frames. That way the RTV is ready as soon as possible, but if something goes south - or even if the RTV save has a glitch (as they sometimes do) the still frames are still there, ready to be converted to an RTV by Speed Razor or Aura.

2 days to render 20 seconds doesn't sound bad if you're using radiosity or many volumetric lights - that takes a lot of horsepower to render.

joseburgos
04-11-2006, 06:43 AM
Render still frames is the way to go for anything long or short.
But if you wish render to a movie format, then go with uncompressed format and convert after.

2 days of "20 second animation 16x9 letterbox at the highest AA with volumetric lighting" does not tell me anything as far as LW goes.
How many polygons?
How many lights are are set to HV?
Is there radiosity?

But before we go into a whole LW thread, check one thing for me;
If you open the render properties, how many threads is being used?
For a dual system you want it at 2, 4 or 8.
I have it set to 8 99% of the time but if you have yours at the default 1 then you are not maxing your cpu's and that would be a huge reason for the time it took to render.
If you do have multithreading on, then like someone suggested, take it to the LW list/forum and we can help you better there.

LW is extreemly deep and many factors come into play.
Like someone here saying if you have radiosity on it could take two days and I can say I have had radiosity on for 600 frames @ HD res and have had the whole thing render in 6 hours.

Take care

PeteF
04-11-2006, 07:08 AM
Yup, yup, render image sequences. Yes, if you enable only a few threads and click the enable radiosity, expect to play the waiting game. I only use about 4 threads, so I can have some processing for editing DV in premiere and other stuff while I wait. That's the power and beauty of having a dual xeon system, multi-tasking friend. Gotta love it.

Do you need radiosity? Can you bake some of your surfaces? Can you fake some of the radiosity using the spinning light trick, etc. Using too many render passes? Yes, you need to test a few frames and plan accordingly. Learn to render in layers, and tweak changes in post to save from having to re-render, After Effects is your friend. You should address or read up on this stuff in the LW forums. Take care.

Dario Bajurin
04-11-2006, 07:38 AM
Or you can turn everything ON and use FPRIME!!! You will probably save more than 50% of rendering time and with radiosity on maybe 99%.

PeteF
04-11-2006, 09:47 AM
Or you can turn everything ON and use FPRIME!!! ....


Oh, sure. Go ahead and cheat and miss all the fun we have before Worley labs stepped in. :)

Pete

David
04-11-2006, 03:45 PM
But before we go into a whole LW thread, check one thing for me;
If you open the render properties, how many threads is being used?
For a dual system you want it at 2, 4 or 8.
I have it set to 8 99% of the time but if you have yours at the default 1 then you are not maxing your cpu's and that would be a huge reason for the time it took to render.

I know this may sound dumb but, where is the render properies pannel? is it render options?

robewil
04-11-2006, 03:48 PM
The Multithreading option is near the bottom of the Render Options panel in the Rendering Tab.

David
04-11-2006, 08:44 PM
The Multithreading option is near the bottom of the Render Options panel in the Rendering Tab.

I have a 533FSB dual Xeon with 2.8 Ghz CPUs hyper threaded it is currently on 4 threads should I put it on 8?

PeteF
04-11-2006, 09:17 PM
Yes. It will make a difference, cut your time almost in half. It'll hog all your processess. Test a few frames and compare the difference.

ScorpioProd
04-11-2006, 09:33 PM
Opps... I must be in the LW forum now...
:hijack:

David
04-12-2006, 03:40 AM
Yes. It will make a difference, cut your time almost in half. It'll hog all your processess. Test a few frames and compare the difference.


Opps... I must be in the LW forum now...

Yes it did work renders much faster! I removed the odd field rendering in camera properties and image improved greatly, now it's progressive! Also, I have a Nvidia Quadro FX 3000 graphics card with 256MB of ram should that make the render faster, are there any options I should change for that? Would a GeForce 7900 GTX (PCI-e) be faster?

and

ScorpioProd I'm sorry I highjacked this thread but you guys are the best!

David
04-12-2006, 04:24 AM
I can say I have had radiosity on for 600 frames @ HD res and have had the whole thing render in 6 hours.

What are your specs (CPU, Ram, Mem, etc. . . )? Do you render progressive or NTSC odd field first?

robewil
04-12-2006, 10:07 AM
Also, I have a Nvidia Quadro FX 3000 graphics card with 256MB of ram should that make the render faster, are there any options I should change for that? Would a GeForce 7900 GTX (PCI-e) be faster?Better graphics cards allow faster and smoother manipulation of objects in Modeler and Layout. They have no effect on rendering speed, whatsoever. Rendering speed is based on the processor(s) and amount of RAM.

cholo
04-12-2006, 12:39 PM
There's a plugin from Re:vision to add motion blur to high shutter speed video or animations rendered without any motion blur, that could in theory also cut your rendering time because you wouldn't need as many passes, but I haven't tested it. Another time saver is rendering many layers and using compositing to add DOF later on, with better control and less rendering time. If your renders are slowing you down, consider a couple of Dell servers, they can be cheap if you do your homework. Screamernet setup is not straightforward, but once you get it up and running it makes a huge difference. You can continue working on VT while rendering and save tons of time.

Brian Peterson
04-12-2006, 01:09 PM
Re-hijacking this thread back on topic.

Well after beating Newtek over the head harshly about the VT4.0 upgrade a while back, something to this day I still don't consider to be much more than a 3.x upgrade, it looks as if my faith is being restored with VT5.0!

From the rumors I'm hearing and count them as rumors but...:

Break out the dual core opterons we're going to need them!
Yes, HD and HDV editing!
REALTIME with no hardware acceleration! WooHoo, eat that FCP and AXIO! (this however is where the opterons come in handy)
IF true us VT4 upgraders are going to be really happy with the upgrade deal. Frankly I couldn't have even dreamed this one and I can't believe the deal is true. But if true, Speed Edit is going to rock VT5!
Price point of Speed Edit. I've heard several ranges for price, but in my opinon if Newtek can get it on a par with FCP, they could take a serious bite out of the Event market.

What I am midly disappointed in, no 64bit support that I can dig out. Yes Eugene, even though no other nle is advertising this, can you imagine the publicity and push Speed Edit and VT5 could get if they were the first to implement 64bit technology. Everyone would be playing catch up at that point!:D
No ship date announced. Call me an optomist but I have a feeling we may just see this by June no rumors to support this though. IF not maybe a public beta guys, I'll happily pound on beta software to get it a few months early!:thumbsup:
:dance:

joseburgos
04-13-2006, 07:50 AM
David-LW thread:The system specs help but what I was trying to explain was it is more the scene and how you are rendering the scene that matters.
I could render a HD res scene faster than you on a slower machine than you have by numerous methodes.
Write me private email and I can go over simple statergies to increase render times with the biggest being "Not everything needs to be done in LW at the same time or in LW at all" or a better universal saying "All does not have to be done in Camera, finish in post".
Since you where rendering to a movie file, that tells me you have one laoded scene and rendering the whole thing as one.
This alone can be the reason your scene has long render times.
eg If your where asked to make a house blow up behind the main character and a piece of the house hits him on the head, knocking him out;
You would not film the shoot by making the house blow up with a wire connected to a wood board and an actor who you have just asked to risk his life.
No you would blow up a house and hopfully do this in LW with a board flying and match moved/animated to hit the head of an actor that was shot seperately on greenscreen.
Then in your Composite program you would bring it all back togeather with tweaks in composite like adding a little orange color to the actor as the house blows up, maybe some blur to the board, etc, etc.
LW is a studio and "All does not have to be done in Camera, finish in post".
**End LW thread, please send private email

I think Newtek waited a little on HD but if they got it right, it will make up for that delay BIG TIME.
Also hoping new things where added to VT Edit and or SpeedEDIT.
Things like mattes, the ability to change the center axis of a video for moving/rotating, features missing from the tool shed (folders and other things), QT loading, push to a video server on streaming, the ability to sync/cue a sound file to a DVE (minimum at the switcher), better manual (looking at the index is most of the time no good to me), some kind of integration with LW (Why can't I import/export key frames to and from VT Edit?), and a couple of other things but my list is stuff I want or the "Me" list :)
64 bit VT will be nice but without 64 bit everything else and I mean everything else, would be N.G. to me since I run multiple programs to create a project almost all of the time.
I know again, this is the "Me" 64 bit thing and a lot of you with bigger studios can just add a 64 bit Edit bay and be quite happy.
So it would be nice but 64 bit is not ready for my studio.

Take care,

ScorpioProd
04-13-2006, 10:58 AM
I think Newtek waited a little on HD but if they got it right, it will make up for that delay BIG TIME.


Well, we'll know within two weeks. I wish them well. :thumbsup:

(Though I'm practical, so I also realize that all the other NLEs that have already had HD for a year have been advancing as well...)

jport
04-14-2006, 09:50 PM
i love a feature rich NLE just like anyone else with custom Mattes, Tracking tools, 64 bit support, etc.

can anyone guess whether or not VT will open support for other HD codecs. DVCpro HD might already be a given but what about Cineform, Luminaire, or Raylight. and will these codecs require intense processing power resulting in a sluggish performance in VT or SE. similar to what DV files do to VT4?

personally i've been leaning more towards Cineform based on the quality and performance i've been getting with it on PPro and Vegas.

ScorpioProd
04-14-2006, 11:29 PM
Just gotta comment... I only run VT[4] on my old dual-Xeon 2.8GHz machine, and I only work in DV, and there's nothing sluggish about it. I know some have had problems with DV sluggishness, and I don't dispute that, but it's not a universal problem.

KSTAR
04-14-2006, 11:47 PM
Yeah I think with a dual zeon and DV your almost always fine. With a single 3.2 P4 DV sometimes can be unbearable depending what your doing. Thats why I capture with NT25 now instead :I_Love_Ne

ted
04-15-2006, 07:47 PM
While I'm optimistic, I wouldn't expect for SpeedEdit to connect all the HD dots perfectly. Like Eugene said, the first generations will undoubtedly need some tweaking.
But I'm happy to be getting it!

Jim_C
04-15-2006, 07:53 PM
Just gotta comment... I only run VT[4] on my old dual-Xeon 2.8GHz machine, and I only work in DV, and there's nothing sluggish about it.


And fwiw, I am still running VT4.6 on a Dual 1.8.

Recently, a very large portion of my work has been creating DVDs from 14-100 separate DV clips. Throw on timeline, move around, trim chop etc. I have remarkably stable and zippy results and interface resonse.

Nary a crash or lock up to be seen or had.


fwiw

Jim

joseburgos
04-17-2006, 09:20 AM
NAB is a week a way so..........
Paul,
Throw us a bone :)

Screen shots, list of added features, movie file showing a new feature,......

Jim Capillo
04-17-2006, 09:22 AM
My guess is that they're pretty busy right now..... :D

Paul Lara
04-17-2006, 11:41 AM
NAB is a week a way so..........
Paul, Throw us a bone :)

Bones are inbound.

NAB attendees get the goods Sunday night, and all you home-bound editors get the whole enchilada Monday morning, when our live booth stream begins.

joseburgos
04-17-2006, 11:51 AM
Good your streaming live again :)
Can't wait.

deejay
04-17-2006, 11:58 AM
Bones are inbound.

NAB attendees get the goods Sunday night, and all you home-bound editors get the whole enchilada Monday morning, when our live booth stream begins.

I'll be at the Sunday meeting with NewTek but I don't expect to be back to my studio before midnight ... I'll try to post the news around that time (MST) unless someone beats me to it.:thumbsup:

KSTAR
04-17-2006, 12:09 PM
Kind of off topic. I have never had the privilege to attend NAB. There is a chance I might be able to make this years. What is the reality, with NAB being a few days away that I could get a hotel room?

Gary Robinson
04-17-2006, 12:28 PM
You'll have no problem getting a hotel room. You just won't get the best prices. Try vegas.com

KSTAR
04-17-2006, 12:47 PM
Thanks for the link.

pnelson
04-17-2006, 01:07 PM
FYI:

We will be streaming LIVE from NAB this year!! Keep your eye on NewTekTV.com..
:)

KSTAR
04-17-2006, 01:16 PM
Yeah I figured worse case scenario. I can sit in front of the computer Monday morning and drool, but I would rather drool in person on Sunday night :)

kleima
04-17-2006, 06:06 PM
VT[4] already works with Cineform (Connect HD).