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View Full Version : Question - working with HD in VT (specifically via Raylight)



tspencer
03-28-2006, 06:15 PM
Greetings,

Has anyone had any experience succesfully working with HD footage in VT, specifically, using the Raylight codec?

[For further info on this tool please see:]

http://www.dvfilm.com/raylight/index.htm

So far we've used it to successfully generate SD placeholder AVI's that work fine on the timeline. These, in turn, render out to an RTV that seems to produce a pretty good image. But they still have some slight artifacting. And the biggest problem is that the image is way desaturated. (Take a look at the attached jpg which shows a histogram of an SD image of some HD footage converted via Raylight.)

But forget about that if you don't have an answer. The deeper question is has anyone figured out ANY way to work with HD in VT? Even an SD down-conversion of some type? Just so you'll know, I have read some of the threads regarding the DVC *.DIF files that are wrapped up within the HD *.MXF files. And yes, I do know about the Snell & Willcox software for unwrapping the *.MXF files. That's all well and good. But so far nobody seems to have come up with a workflow or even workaround to actually use these things in a production environment.

If somebody out there has some answers to these riddles please share them with the rest of us!

It stinks having access to HD footage and not being able to DO anything with it. I'm not even going to get into the issues that After Effects has with HD because this isn't the appropriate place. But on top of that, VT can't handle it either. So I can't composite the stuff, I can't do FX work with it, I can't edit it...

The drop-dead date for HD is, what... 2007? That ain't that far away, gang. We need to rally together and resolve some of these issues. All of our workhorse applications need to be able to work with this new format or we're going to be facing some very difficult situations.


Regards,

Todd W. Spencer
Ad-Venture Video Productions

ScorpioProd
03-28-2006, 06:39 PM
With NAB less than a month away, I think that's where you'll find the answers.

I don't think you'll find any useable workaround for VT[4] 4.6c.

I'm not saying there aren't ways to get HD in, but ways that are efficient enough to be used currently? No. And definately no way to get it out.

Hopefully Newtek will have HD/HDV and MXF solutions at NAB.

Dan Hong
03-29-2006, 07:35 AM
Hey Todd (and Ted),
We've been shooting HDV for a few months now. Initially, we tried to bring in the HDV clips and edit by downsizing in VT, but even with the fastest machines we have, the timelines can get a little pokie. So we shoot in HDV and down convert to SD to edit. We don't have any outside clients who need HD yet. I'm sure NewTek will have a solution for us before our clients start demanding HD. By the way, we are using the Cineform intermediary codec to bring HD down (Aspect HD), although I'm just starting to mess with Premiere Pro 2 which recognizes the HDV.

ted
03-29-2006, 10:51 AM
Eugene, The workflow we are currently trying to use is NOT acceptable for a normal project. I certainly hope NewTek has a solution by NAB or my new GFX guy will win the VT/FCP war.
This is the first HD project we are doing and it's been a frikin pain! I need to come back from NAB with the ability to send out a client letter stating our HD capabilities.

Dan, thanks. What's the deal with cineform? Is it a practical solution?

tspencer
03-29-2006, 11:38 AM
I realize that there is no way to directly edit HD files in VT right now. What I'm looking for is either a workaround (which is why I'm experimenting with Raylight) or the ability to edit an SD down-conversion of HD footage.

VT cuts SD just fine. If I can get a clean down-conversion of HD I'd be happy for now.


Todd W. Spencer
Ad-Venture Video Productions



With NAB less than a month away, I think that's where you'll find the answers.

I don't think you'll find any useable workaround for VT[4] 4.6c.

I'm not saying there aren't ways to get HD in, but ways that are efficient enough to be used currently? No. And definately no way to get it out.

Hopefully Newtek will have HD/HDV and MXF solutions at NAB.

tspencer
03-29-2006, 11:40 AM
By the way, we are using the Cineform intermediary codec to bring HD down (Aspect HD), although I'm just starting to mess with Premiere Pro 2 which recognizes the HDV.

So, just to be perfectly clear, you're using Cineform to do an HD to SD down-conversion and then editing the resultant SD footage? And, if so, that's working for you?


Todd W. Spencer
Ad-Venture Video Productions

ted
03-29-2006, 10:47 PM
Well, after 3 guys researching the internet for 3 days, lots of trial and error and several applications we finally got a HVX200 HD clip on the VT timeline.
Since I have to credit Todd with the actual step, I'll let him fill in the details.
Basically we took the clip into light ray, made it an .avi, rendered it to a .rtv and wala.
In this case it was a 1080 60i clip. There are several other issues we need to work out like why the heck it doesn't work right in After Effects, Final Cut Pro or QuickTime.
There are color space issues on the 1080 clips but not the 720??? This might be ray light related.

All that matters is I think this will be the first spot in our market that will actually be shot, edited, delivered and viewed in HD. We'll be having to use Final Cut to post and take it to an uncompressed QT and delivered to the theaters. But it gets us going for now.

I think we'll mostly be shooting on DVCPro50 for the next couple months so I don't think we'll worry about Posting HD after this one. I hope to goodness NewTek has a solid HD game plan by then.

More to follow.