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Norman
03-22-2006, 01:00 PM
I thought there used to be some push and pull type DVE's included with the VT, but I can't seem to find them. Do they still exist, or am I thinking back to the Flyer? :vticon:

Cineman
03-22-2006, 07:51 PM
Your memory is correct, if you are remembering prior to VT[4]. At that point, for people who did not retain their old content DVEs, they were lost. I suppose that people who started at VT[4], never had them. It was a great loss, and another example of how NewTek sometimes moved backwards over time.

Nes Gurley

Zane Condren
03-22-2006, 07:57 PM
You can always install these DVE's from your VT2/3 CDs.

John Perkins
03-22-2006, 08:33 PM
We just like to keep all the good toys for ourselves ;)

They were removed because they caused problems.

Some of those old DVE's were actually buggy, so I don't suggest digging them up.

Cineman
03-22-2006, 11:46 PM
Have you lost your last ounce of integrity?


We just like to keep all the good toys for ourselves ;)
Actually, not that. NewTek managed to lose a bunch of them, so they didn't even make it to VT[3].


They were removed because they caused problems.
Didn't cause problems on my VT, or, I guess, about 100 others that I worked with over time.


Some of those old DVEs were actually buggy, so I don't suggest digging them up.
To be completely straight with everyone, there were a couple that were completely broken. But, oh, that's right, those made it right on through to VT[4] and TriCaster.

Some people just say things, and others shoot straight. John Perkins, in his pre NewTek days, posted his admiration of my doing the latter.

Nes Gurley

John Perkins
03-23-2006, 12:04 AM
So which ones are you having trouble with? We need to do something about those too. Either a bug report or an email would be great.

I wasn't here until recently, so you may know something I don't about this. I thought the only ones that were removed were actually the ones that were broken.

I don't see how we could lose them, there would have to be one install CD here somewhere. Or we could borrow one for that matter. I've probably got them at home myself.

I like your straight talk, but sometimes to do come across a bit angry for some reason.

What did I do to lose my integrity? I've always been a bit of a joker, but I assumed you were used to hearing one bad joke to get one or two answers.

If I'm wrong about the DVE's, I'll gladly admit it. That was honestly what I thought had happened.

ScorpioProd
03-23-2006, 11:52 AM
Which "Push and Pull" type DVEs are you guys talking about?

I still have my DVEs from VT[2] and my DVEs from VT[4] both installed... I looked in the wipes folder and there's plenty of "push/pull" in both of them...

Norman
03-23-2006, 12:14 PM
Eugene,

I never intentionally got rid of them, but I can't find them in my wipes folder. Can you give me the names or numbers of the ones you have?

Cineman
03-23-2006, 12:40 PM
I still have my DVEs from VT[2] and my DVEs from VT[4] both installed... I looked in the wipes folder and there's plenty of "push/pull" in both of them...
Hey Eugene... (Sorry, You are in NY)... Eugene, this could help a lot. Do you have them separated so that you can tell which came from VT[2] and which came with VT[4]? I don't have any missing either, but I have customized my DVE folders to such an extent that I can't easily tell if they were a part of VT[4], or just moved there by me from the VT[2] version.

OK, you say: "both of them", so I guess that makes the above question redundant. I have been working on a reply to John that won't make things worse for NewTek and my research today was tending to indicate the same as you say.

Nes Gurley

ScorpioProd
03-23-2006, 01:14 PM
Yes, I have my VT[2] DVEs and VT[4] DVEs separate.

1031 thru 1041 are push-pull effects.

Though I do want to point out that the reason I have both directories is because Newtek did remove some DVEs from the past that were useful to me, which is why I am forced to keep both folders, until I reorganize them myself. And they wouldn't be useful DVEs if they didn't work. :)

An example being 7070_H2Ofall.

Also, there are still "broken" DVEs that slipped through and are still in VT[4]'s DVEs. What I mean by "broken" are ones that show a distinctive luma change when they start, making them unusable for anything I need. I don't have a list of them in front of me, but once upon a time, long ago, I did submit such a list. AFAIK, DVEs that were around back in VT[2] have never been recompiled in newer versions of the VT.

Norman
03-23-2006, 02:42 PM
Maybe I'm using the wrong terminology, but those effects are not what I meant. The effect I was referring to involves one scene coming in while pushing the other scene out, with both scenes moving at the same time. I guess it's possible that NewTek kept the same numbers and replaced the ones I need with plain wipes, but that sucks! :thumbsdow

ScorpioProd
03-23-2006, 04:39 PM
Based on limitations of the DVE creation software, I don't think what you are describing was EVER in VT. That would require moving both the A and B sources, and AFAIK, no VT DVEs do that. Actually, I think it's more a limitation of the real-time DVE engine than just the creation software.

And I'm quite sure the Flyer couldn't do that, either. That would require TWO digital buses, and the Classic Toaster only had one.

ScorpioProd
03-23-2006, 04:39 PM
Note that you could do this kind of thing in LW, and perhaps with Bob Tasa's LW Connect?

Cineman
03-23-2006, 10:01 PM
Norman,

Eugene is correct that what you were thinking of is beyond the capabilities of DVE creation for VT. I apologize if I added any confusion by assuming that you were speaking of the types of push/pulls available in VT. I suppose that it would be better to state that "pull to reveal" or "push to cover" is/was available in VT.

Such as you describe was not available in the Amiga Toaster and/or Flyer either.

Nes Gurley

Cineman
03-23-2006, 10:12 PM
So which ones are you having trouble with?
I am not, personally having problems with any of them. That is part of the problem I had with what you said.


We need to do something about those too. Either a bug report or an email would be great.
If, as likely, you are referring to the ones that were released, over and over, broken; I bugged them. I received E-mail that they had been fixed. I downloaded the fixed versions from an ftp site.

That only leaves the question as to if they are also fixed for all users? I read an implication that such was done for 4.6 on the download page.


version 4.6, General Improvements]Corrected errors with some DVEs.
My problem with this is how it could be done without new content disks. That is obviously something beyond what can be done for a free upgrade.

Gentel Readers: You might be able to help John and myself if you could report what you have with the two broken DVEs I commented about. Here would be a good place or you could E-mail to John and myself, <[email protected]>. The two I was talking about are: "9142_Pencil" and "9164_Rock". (The alpha and numeric parts of the name have been swapped several times and are different for TriCaster, but both should be in the DVE name as you find it.)

The broken versions of both of these run by first cutting to what was on Preview, followed by the bordered wipe to what was on Program, and then finally cut back to what had been origionally of Preview. The fixed version simply performs a bordered wipe from Program to what was on Preview.

Please be sure and include how you came to get your content directory. Did you buy your VT at 4.6, and install from the content disks? Or did you download 4.6 (Bld 6016), thus retaining content from VT[4]?


I wasn't here until recently, so you may know something I don't about this. I thought the only ones that were removed were actually the ones that were broken.
AFAIK John, none were ever removed because they were broken. (thus part of my objection to what you said above) I do theorize that some were removed because of heavy resource usage. I still have them, and they still work on my rather weak knead VT.


I don't see how we could lose them, there would have to be one install CD here somewhere. Or we could borrow one for that matter. I've probably got them at home myself.
I don't know how NewTek lost them either but as soon as they so stated, I E-mailed Paul Lara and offered NewTek my copy. He did not reply so I had to assume that they had been found or that NewTek was not interested, They never came back in.

The specific one that I am talking about is titled "VT%5B2%5DContentExpansionPack1.exe" and was created: Saturday, November 17, 2001. I searched my archives and found it on my own CD along with some zips of early VT and Speed Razor builds. Since it is not on a NewTek furnished disk, I kinda have to assume that it was a download. But it is definately a NewTek install.

Here is the content read_me from the install:

" The effects in this Expansion Pack are free additions to your current content.

This will change one set of currently installed DVEs. the 104X_Wipes are now
the Soft Edge Wipes (104X_Soft.dve) and a new section of effects (Picture In Pictures)
will be added if you do the Typical install. You will find these
in the 8000_Comprs\8100_P-in-P directory."

I still use and prefer these soft edge wipes for split screens of the bands. The softness of the edge does not spread across the screen as much as the new ones from VT[4] fuzzing out the individuals in the split.

Hope this helps,

Nes Gurley

ScorpioProd
03-23-2006, 10:54 PM
Yup, those two DVEs are broke as Nes describes. I'm running 4.6c with the DVEs from the 4.0 content discs.



Gentel Readers: You might be able to help John and myself if you could report what you have with the two broken DVEs I commented about. Here would be a good place or you could E-mail to John and myself, <[email protected]>. The two I was talking about are: "9142_Pencil" and "9164_Rock". (The alpha and numeric parts of the name have been swapped several times and are different for TriCaster, but both should be in the DVE name as you find it.)

The broken versions of both of these run by first cutting to what was on Preview, followed by the bordered wipe to what was on Program, and then finally cut back to what had been origionally of Preview. The fixed version simply performs a bordered wipe from Program to what was on Preview.

Please be sure and include how you came to get your content directory. Did you buy your VT at 4.6, and install from the content disks? Or did you download 4.6 (Bld 6016), thus retaining content from VT[4]?

Cineman
03-23-2006, 10:56 PM
Yes, I have my VT[2] DVEs and VT[4] DVEs separate.

1031 thru 1041 are push-pull effects.
1031 thru 1039. And do you have them in both your VT[2] DVEs and VT[4] DVEs separate?


Though I do want to point out that the reason I have both directories is because Newtek did remove some DVEs from the past that were useful to me, which is why I am forced to keep both folders, until I reorganize them myself. And they wouldn't be useful DVEs if they didn't work. :)

An example being 7070_H2Ofall.

Also, there are still "broken" DVEs that slipped through and are still in VT[4]'s DVEs. What I mean by "broken" are ones that show a distinctive luma change when they start, making them unusable for anything I need. I don't have a list of them in front of me, but once upon a time, long ago, I did submit such a list. AFAIK, DVEs that were around back in VT[2] have never been recompiled in newer versions of the VT.
Thanks (NOT) for reminding me of all those. I too submitted a list of them with a description of the problem to NewTek, but that was a long (years) time ago. Doesn't seem like it would be necessary to keep repeating, and sure illustrates that "broken" wasn't the criteria for pulling DVEs from the VT[4] release. I also recall that directions for correcting that problem, if you have the anim, is covered in the DVE Creation Kit directions.

Nes Gurley

Norman
03-24-2006, 03:22 AM
My thanks tall of you, especially Nes and Eugene. I must have used these effects in Vegas, because they're there. but I will have to create this in LightWave.

wvp
03-28-2006, 07:35 AM
Maybe I'm using the wrong terminology, but those effects are not what I meant. The effect I was referring to involves one scene coming in while pushing the other scene out, with both scenes moving at the same time. I guess it's possible that NewTek kept the same numbers and replaced the ones I need with plain wipes, but that sucks! :thumbsdow
I believe you can do this by using the control tree to keyframe clip A to slide off then do the same to clip B to slide on. Best to use the numbers rather than sliding the image with mouse, as it will not stay at the same level.
When you get each clip to move as you want you can then save each in the tool shed for further use.

billmi
03-28-2006, 08:45 AM
Yep. You can definitely acheive the transition, it's just not supported as a DVE.

Jim Capillo
03-28-2006, 10:51 AM
Should take all of 30 seconds to set up in positioner...... :thumbsup:

Bobt
03-29-2006, 04:36 AM
Norman,
Just make a LWC scene. Yeah you have to render but those kind of effects
are real real fast.

Bob

Bobt
03-29-2006, 04:37 AM
Is the motion real real smooth at all speeds?
That might be why the positioner isnt the best choice.
I know scaling has been upgraded.

Bob

joseburgos
03-30-2006, 06:47 PM
Here is a simple toolshed presets to push and pull.
You need to overlap the A and B to the points you want the effect.
Then cut the two at there overlap points to create two extra clips that are the end of the top and the begining of the bottom.
Click on the bottom and select overlay and then use the preset push left.
Now select the clip above and use the pull right.
That will give you your effect of the video on top pulling left and the bottom pushing right.

Take care,
Jose Burgos

Norman
04-03-2006, 06:47 AM
Thanks, Jose, I'll try your preset and let you know how it works for me. I would rather do it in TEd, rather than LightWave.

joseburgos
04-03-2006, 09:10 AM
No problem :)

Please let me know if it helped.

Norman
04-04-2006, 05:19 AM
Jose,

They didn't work as I had hoped, but they showed me how simple it is to get exactly what I wanted for this particular montage, Thanks again, Jose.

joseburgos
04-04-2006, 11:07 AM
Here is a new version of the preset's:
www.burgos-family.com/files/Push_Pull_Spline_Preset.zip

Also, here is a movie to see how they are used:
www.burgos-family.com/movies/pull_push_preset.wmv

Take care,

billmi
04-04-2006, 11:24 AM
Nice work Jose!

Jim Capillo
04-04-2006, 12:46 PM
Good stuff......... Thanks !

Cineman
04-04-2006, 02:23 PM
Absolutely exactly what I finally understood Norman to want to do Jose.

Really great.

Nes Gurley