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aurora
02-07-2003, 07:37 PM
First let me say I use LW 99.9% of the time. However on rare occasions I do use Maya 4.0. Last night I went to a Alias/Wavefront usergroups meeting where we had a incredible over view of their new fluids system. Granted, theres RealFlow and RealWave but I would love to see a solid fluids module added to LW.

Memz
02-07-2003, 08:57 PM
Well, you can use hypervoxels. But its hard to get it completely right. I agree it should be a little more simple to make more fluid like substances. But if your skilled enough.. fluids are simple to create. Usually, the harder it is to do something, the better the results. Just my opinion.. :)

Elmar Moelzer
02-08-2003, 09:24 AM
The problem with HVs for fluids is that the forcefield for the blobs is too weak and not adjustable. So you always get that weird blobby, bumpy look...
CU
Elmar

Skonk
02-08-2003, 04:39 PM
Yeh i have to agree here, i think lightwaves particle systems are amazing and perfectly capable of create realistic fluid simulations (contained liquids i mean, not things like oceans)but the surfacing of these fluids leaves a lot to be desired. Thought it is posible to get some great result with hypervoxels in most cases it could be very much improved.

James..

Joril
02-08-2003, 08:06 PM
Originally posted by SpankDaddy
...not things like oceans...


Check this out James :)
Not exactly particles, but an ocean non the less :cool:
http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27648&highlight=large+waves

Skonk
02-09-2003, 06:05 AM
I didn't mean lightwave couldn't do oceans :) i just meant u wouldn't use particles to create an ocean.

James..

Memz
02-09-2003, 08:16 AM
Well, you could use RealFlow. Its quite expensive for the full version but they have a demo version which has enough functionality for what your probably doing. Try it out. :)

Skonk
02-10-2003, 06:21 AM
Iv never tried realflow myself but i hear its very good.
Maybe i'll give the demo a try too :)

James..

aurora
02-10-2003, 07:00 AM
Using LW to create oceans, lakes, ponds, rivers and even waterfalls is nto all that hard in LW using displacments and/HV's. However for more complex situations you need the full force of using the stokes equations to solve the fluid dynamics. I may be good at math and I may be a programmer but writting scripts to solve for these situations everytime I run into them is really not something that is going to happen. I have seen Realflow and Realwave in actions and they are fantastic but after what I saw the other night using Maya Fluids. Well you have to see it to believe it.
So, since do to the complexity of fluid dynamics, I doubt that LW8 will have Fluids barring integration of RealFlow/Wave, as soon as I finish several new pluggins I'm working on to improve my work flow, I think I'm going to give writting a fluids solution a shot.

faulknermano
02-10-2003, 07:14 AM
Originally posted by SpankDaddy
Iv never tried realflow myself but i hear its very good.
Maybe i'll give the demo a try too :)

James..

learning curve is rather steep i hear. and the latest version is quite 'crashy.'

it's not really that user friendly, but it'll get you there, i think, if you're willing to invest much time and patience (as with anything).

Emmanuel
02-10-2003, 08:34 AM
Hm...I remember seeing a little simulation at NewTek's site where water was falling down and created realistic splashes.
I guess implementing a complete fluid system would probably be a third party job, cause its time consuming and like hair a special application for rare use only.
If You do it often, realflow seems the better alternative, or Maya.

Jimzip
02-12-2003, 05:52 PM
Why don't they just put inbuilt fluid dynamics in then, it would stop people going to Maya and it would be less expensive than a third party plugin.
Jimzip:D

Cman
02-14-2003, 09:22 PM
Originally posted by Jimzip
Why don't they just put inbuilt fluid dynamics in then, it would stop people going to Maya and it would be less expensive than a third party plugin.
Jimzip:D

Well, seeing as you want these things, how about this:

LW Standard - $1,500 (current LW)
Maya Complete - $2,000
(Maya price for comparison)

LW Advanced - $5,000
Maya Unlimited - $7,000
To get integrated fluids, cloth, fur, etc
(Maya price for comparison)

Maybe if enough people agree to the 2-tier system, NT would use it and you'd get your integrated bells-n-whistles! :)

Gregg "T.Rex"
02-15-2003, 12:11 PM
Hello everybody...
I use LW 100% for every 3D job i have. But for the current project, where i had to create a lot of different types of ultra-realistic looking clouds for a 1 min fly-through and render in 2K rez for output to film, LW wasn't up to the specs. HVs not only needed huge R&D times but also huge render times.

That put LW aside and my company went to Maya just for this shot. I'd never used Maya before, but i managed in one day to produce results, that convinced everybody Maya was the tool for that job.

Fluids in Maya is more that water or oceans. Maya can also create extremely good clouds and landscapes by using the intergrated fluid engine and with acceptable render times.

LW's HV were good when they came out, but now are outdated and slow. Lately, i've been testing OGO_Taiki plugin and i must say, that this plugin can do miracles with clouds and not only. The results are spectacular! But, it's still in beta so the render times are still... well, not suited for film production.... Yet...

And that's a plugin costing only 30 bucks, developed by one genius person. That tell us a lot. In LW lie the potentional to outperform all of its competitors, but the signs of its age are quite obvious. It needs a major re-design in its core programming, not neccecery in the interface, but in the way things communicate underneeth. HVs and displacement should cease to exist (in their current state) and be part of the Surface Editor...

Uhm... Ok, i'll stop now. This is for another thread i guess. Newtek should hire the genius programmer behind OGO plugins and not just buy his final products. I mean, how many guys in the world can take a program's SDK and code a volumetric engine with results like this one?

hrgiger
02-15-2003, 04:59 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Cman
[B]Well, seeing as you want these things, how about this:

LW Standard - $1,500 (current LW)
Maya Complete - $2,000
(Maya price for comparison)

LW Advanced - $5,000
Maya Unlimited - $7,000
To get integrated fluids, cloth, fur, etc
(Maya price for comparison)

Tim Jenison, founder of Newtek says his goal is to create software that is both powerful and affordable. Creating a advanced version of Lightwave for $5,000 would kind of go against that idea.

Skonk
02-15-2003, 05:13 PM
Newtek could just buy OGO_Taiki (maybe help the guy get it past the beta stage too) and include it in lw, that would sort out the cloud isue :) would make me happy.

James..

Jimzip
02-18-2003, 03:18 AM
True, but in that case NT should also buy Worley Labs and finally get inbuilt hair/fur/grass!!
It probably won't happen like that. ;)
Jimzip