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View Full Version : Has anyone got experience of the EIAS 6.5 program?



aquapan
03-16-2006, 08:38 PM
Has anyone used the EIAS 6.5 program. See detail here: http://www.eitechnologygroup.com/products/eias.html

Used in many major feature films and the company claims it has the fastest renderer around.

I ask cos i am getting a little over the slowness of the lw8.5 renderer plus the fact that it sh*ts itself on large format renders and want something that is industry tested.

I would like to know if anyone else has experience with this renderer and what sort of speed differences have been noted when using it.

It must be good cos they used it for Star Wars!

Thanks
Chris

hrgiger
03-16-2006, 09:47 PM
Well, considering that Jay Roth, CEO and co-founder of Electric Image is now the Vice President of 3D Product Management at Newtek, I'm sure that we'll be seeing some nice new changes in Lightwave and it's renderer over the next few versions.

You may want to direct your questions to him for Electric Image.

ingo
03-17-2006, 02:38 AM
Man you are funny guys. So if they used it for Star Wars it must be good ? And that Jay is now with Newtek makes Lightwave better ? AFAIK Jay left EIAS ages ago, so i think he didn't know a lot about what is going on now at the company.

Regarding your question, just get the demo version of EIAS and look around in their forum, that way you get some good overview. I don't think its faster anymore, but the AA is better and faster than LW's AA. Otherwise Mr 3Dworks can tell you more about it, i guess. ;)

aquapan
03-17-2006, 02:52 AM
Regarding your question, just get the demo version of EIAS and look around in their forum,

The demo costs 99 to loan off of them for 30 days and then you have to return in the allotted 7 days or you get charged for it!

So i am a little reluctant to take that offer on.

The international postage alone is ridiculous to get the item here for testing.

Read the forums.. interesting but not enough. Want to read real world experiences of people who use both concurrently.

Thanks

hrgiger
03-17-2006, 08:14 AM
Man you are funny guys. And that Jay is now with Newtek makes Lightwave better ? AFAIK Jay left EIAS ages ago, so i think he didn't know a lot about what is going on now at the company.



Well, first of all, I was referring to the fact that Newtek has hired someone who has a proven track record of achieving results in this area. And yes, now that Jay is with Newtek, I think the outlook does look good to make lightwave better.

As far as your second point, Jay might have a better idea then anyone on this forum about EIAS and what is going on. He was a co-founder and CEO after all, not the janitor.

Matt
03-17-2006, 09:46 AM
As far as I know it is still pretty fast, the version I saw years ago ripped through massive poly heavy scenes on a pretty naff Mac.

pixelinfected
03-17-2006, 10:50 AM
last version that i seen was on an old mac, a 68040 at 50 mhz mac.... (just two or three days ago), and friend that show me eias render under my eyes 1 million of poly with reflection, refraction and shadow in less than two minutes, with a very good quality.

eias was and is a very faster polygons eater, with good quality of render, the lack of original eias was the lack of real modeler, when exit like universe (ones of latest version) i see that with modeler and many other tools that every 3d artist need, but the time is gone, and many eias user was gone on other software. rebel unit of ILM goes to lw and other software, and more.

actually i not see last release, but i think that a software which not have a demo (selling demo at 99$ is not a real demo) is not a software that keep my interest. every other 3d software from small to bigger have demo version, all.

ivanze
03-17-2006, 01:52 PM
"As far as your second point, Jay might have a better idea then anyone on this forum about EIAS and what is going on. He was a co-founder and CEO after all, not the janitor."

ROTFL

barnabythebear
03-17-2006, 02:01 PM
Hiya,

I use both, but have not tested them side buy side. My gut feeling is that EIAS is still faster, but remember whats being claimed for V9 re render speed. I'd wait for 9 to ship. Also, a lot of technolgy like HyperVoxels has no equivelent in the basic EIAS so any test render would need to be a fairly basic phong/raytrace set-up I guess. I much prefer working with EIAS than layout though.

ta

nige.

Tartiflette
03-17-2006, 06:00 PM
Has anyone used the EIAS 6.5 program. See detail here: http://www.eitechnologygroup.com/products/eias.html

Used in many major feature films and the company claims it has the fastest renderer around.

I ask cos i am getting a little over the slowness of the lw8.5 renderer plus the fact that it sh*ts itself on large format renders and want something that is industry tested.

I would like to know if anyone else has experience with this renderer and what sort of speed differences have been noted when using it.

It must be good cos they used it for Star Wars!

Thanks
Chris

Hello !

I have taken advantage of the 30 days demo. They are pretty cool with the delays if you ask them friendly and directly ! :)

As for the speed of the renderer, it's true (and i will speak of the tests i did, not in general...) that in some scenes, Camera, the EIAS renderer is fast as **** ! Coupled with the fact that it has probably one of the most efficient AA that i have seen, that make this renderer extremely efficient !

The GI solution in EIAS 6.5 is very fast too, which was quite a surprise to me, since its monte carlo type of GI (like in LightWave...) However, one thing i didn't manage to do in the renders i tested was to have color bleeding... I'm sure it does this type of effect, so i must have missed something in the settings, but i didn't find the solution.

The big downside i have seen is when activating raytracing in reflection or in refraction : in the 3 scenes i did the tests, it slowed down to a crawl each time, going from, say 2 mins a frame to 2,5 HOURS when activating these fancy effects !!! :devil:

I'm sure it had to do with the settings too, since it's too much of a gap, but, like with color bleeding, i didn't find the solution...

In conclusion, i didn't take advantage of the offer (keep the soft...) and returned it to EITG group, but i think it's a very nice package, especially if you have to render loads of polygons with a great AA and at a good pace. I still think that the LW renderer is "deeper" than the EIAS' one, though !

Hope it helps ! :thumbsup:

Regards,
Laurent aka Tartiflette :)

JML
03-17-2006, 06:27 PM
Don't read what the software companies says about their softwares, instead look on the web for renders that were done with the software you are interested in.
it give you an idea of the renderer quality.

we used to use EI at work and we switched to LW.
we tried EI6.5, we have a few seats of it, and the openGL is a lot faster than before which was much needed.
render wise, AA is good but mainly because by default it blurs everything. One time I did a project with both package, and to get the same crispness of my textures, I had to set the samples to 5 instead of 1 in EI, (to match LW textures crispness), and on a big building, it became really slow to render.

EI was famous to render fast, but phong renders mostly, anything raytrace was just horrible on scene larger than 1M polys.
6.5 might handle bigger raytrace scene but on the PC platform (workstation and renderfarm), the camera is really buggy. I think they developed mostly for the Mac.
Also EI community is really small.. and last year we thought they were going out of business.. that's where my boss started buying more LW seats..


2 weeks ago, we had to work on a old project, so we opened it in EI 6.5
to do modifications.
when I finished the modifs, I was happy to go back to LW+Fprime..
Fprime realtime rendering feedback is really a dream..

if you still want to switch, I would suggest switching to softwares starting with the 'M' letter. (2 of them)
anything else would be less powerful than LW in general.
just my thoughts.

And before that, try LW9 , it's really the best LW ever.
(and I'm not a fanboy)

aquapan
03-17-2006, 08:02 PM
wow... thanks everyone for your opinions... ideas... and answers. If Jay is around i would love to hear his response to this (that is if he has any actual input into the backend of the renderer itself).

If anyone else out there has some input they would like to add... please feel free.

:) C

toby
03-18-2006, 12:52 AM
EI is a fantastic product, for 1995 - that's when it was King, and it is rather featureless compared to current apps. I think raytracing was brand-new in 2003.

It does have great AA and speed, but the limitations I remember ( it was 5.5 last I used it ):

32 bit pipeline, so it could not use or output HDRs, and lights or luminosity were limited to 100% white. This means that if you pan the camera past the sun, motion blur will smear the 100% white, and then you've got a gray sun.

Only a handful of keyboard shortcuts, and you can't edit them.

A texture-preview sphere like the one in LW's surface editor, only smaller and didn't show any texture maps, just raw color and things like the falloff for diffuse, spec and reflection.

No support for more than one surface per object. One object = one surface.

Starting the Modeler would force you to quit the animator. You could not have them running at the same time.

Radiosity solution was calculated in a separate program, then that was used in the renderer. I don't think it was possible or practical to use radiosity in animations if anything in the scene moved.

Rendered slower than Lightwave when raytracing was used, in all of my tests.

And lots of little things we take for granted - no area lights, backdrop radiosity, dynamics, endomorphs, hair, etc.

Most of these things weren't around when the renderer was written, by Jay Roth btw. They may have added some things since I used it, but I doubt it's overtaken LW. I think Camera was a great achievement for it's time, but it wasn't written current effects in mind, so I don't recommend EI.

I do recommend you stick around long enough to see what Mr. Roth brings to LW... anti-aliasing and motion blur that's even better than EI's? :hey: