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Marvin Miller
03-03-2006, 07:14 PM
Hey everyone!

A couple new tutorials are up on the NewTek site:



G-Toggle Subpatch and Center Pivot



http://www.newtek.com/lightwave/lw9_demos.php

evenflcw
03-03-2006, 08:22 PM
Great to see Assign Pivot (LW8 function) updated/replaced by Center Pivot which work on edges and has a better name! Hopefully it is not a slow lscript anymore either.

Also great that something like Global Toggle Subpatch now is provided natively.

Snosrap
03-03-2006, 08:28 PM
Looks like I'll have to re-map my tab key to the Global subpatch. This is the way it should have always worked IMO. Why does NT always insist on keeping legacy stuff. Just change it! Better yet have the user define how they want it to work in some kind of .cfg file. Adding more buttons IMO is not the way to go. Same way with some of the other tools. Just as an example, with the Bevel tool, make it so the user can define what mouse motion sets the inset and shift settings. These are the workflow things I'm looking for, and I fully understand that LW is still in a transition stage, but if these and other issues are not addressed by v.10 I think there may be an exodus to other applications. I'm still keeping the faith though and hope 9 shapes up nicely. Also why would Center Pivot have to be a two mouse click operation. If you click on the Center Pivot I would hope that LW would actually know that you want to move the pivot point without first clicking on the Pivot button. Duh! (Maybe the presenter wants to show where the Pivot is and where it ends up, but just clicking on the Center Pivot would have sufficed.)

Cheers
Snos

evenflcw
03-03-2006, 08:37 PM
They can't completely replace the original Subpatch Toggle function because ngons still don't subdivide under the original Subpatche SubD Mode: (if I've understood things correctly). And since not all polys/patches toggle together you might find yourself in a situation when some polys are in subpatch and others are not. How would you resolve that if Subpatch toggle always disregards selections?

This function will then mainly be usefull for the new CatmullClark SubD mode which is able to subdivides all kinds of polys, even ngons!

Then again, this function will still fail if you add a new polygon to a layer where everything was previously in SubD mode. So they should perhaps script all functions that create new polys to check what mode all current polys in the layer are in currently in and adapt the new polys to that... Then again this means all functions will have to have that bit of code integrated so it should really be built into the core somehow and there are probably more pitfalls still... *sigh*

They should really make the original Subpatch Toggle command stop bitching and moaning about 'No polys selected' when points are selected and have it subdivide anyway. That get's them half the way without introducing any of the stated pitfalls. But in that situation there are others. Such as you might want to toggle all polys/subds while a tool is active. But then you can't change modes without the tool automatically being deactivated. But you can't do that today anyway. So it'll still be a better situation without any serious pitfalls.... I think. Tricky situation.

EDITED!

Snosrap
03-03-2006, 09:21 PM
Tricky situation.

You make some very valid points, and your right a tricky situation.

Cheers
Snos

BazC
03-04-2006, 02:34 AM
You make some very valid points, and your right a tricky situation.

Cheers
Snos

Yes you'll need to keep the old selection based subpatch but I'd rather see this as the default and selection based as an option, preferably with a shortcut. But we are in a transitional state so maybe there has to be more buttons before they can start consolidating?

As for the pivot point, it must be a one button operation surely! I assume the demonstrator was just using the pivot button to show the original position. If not that's SERIOUSLY bad design!

What I'd really like to see is the ability to set the pivot point like this while you have a tool selcted. For anyone whos used Wings it would be very similar to Wings vector operations which are really powerful and quick to use. So you could be using the rotate tool and press a modifier to set the pivot point to rotate around. Or using the translate tool you could use the modifier to set the pivot, select a couple of verts to set a precise vector for movement!

evenflcw
03-04-2006, 06:09 AM
I disagree about changing the default subD Toggle. Imho G-toggle might be more trouble than it's worth. There are ways to solve the issues, but unfortunatly the video didn't cover any of the bad scenarios.

I'm quite sure he was using the Pivot Point Tool just for demonstrational purposes. Only genuine Tools (the ones that utilize the numeric panel) have access to the drawing rutines. The Center Pivot command however is probably a generic function, just like Assign Pivot is. As such it executes instantly and has no ability to draw the crosshair. Having it only execute while a tool, specifically the Pivot Point Tool, is active would probably require alot of hacking or be impossible.

It would be great if the pivot could be rotated in modeler! Action Center:Pivot would indeed become much more usefull if it did.

SCS5
03-04-2006, 06:13 AM
I hate to say it, but, all the videos ( Except the Nodal Textures) for LW9 are trivial at best. WOW..Center Pivot...I'm going to upgrade right now! (And yes I've already paid for the upgrade) Where is all the new ground breaking stuff?..... Better Bones, Rigging, New animation tools, Animatable Modeling in Layout, Consolidated tools in Modeler, We have about 4 or 5 different tools to Bevel, Should be 1, Etc. ...Anything?

toonafish
03-04-2006, 07:37 AM
hmm, I already have both as a 3rd party plugin in 8.5.

Emmanuel
03-04-2006, 07:49 AM
Sure ? Was the old plugin as flexible as this ?
Just another remark: the fact that half of the videos are in *mov and the other in *avi format is something that some might consider...unnatural...

Cageman
03-04-2006, 07:51 AM
SCS5:

Well, maybe it is because LightWave is supposed to be an easy app to use? Didn't you like the Adaptive Pixel Subdivision video? Or the new tool to make a path for wind? Stressmap is pretty cool too. Those tools adds some good, usefull stuff, still being simple to use. :)

Emmanuel
03-04-2006, 08:09 AM
We'll see what the studios will say regarding LW's "fake" APS versus Modo's *real* micropolydisplacement (their latest dev shots look terrific for terrain stuff).

colkai
03-04-2006, 08:10 AM
YAs for the pivot point, it must be a one button operation surely! I assume the demonstrator was just using the pivot button to show the original position. If not that's SERIOUSLY bad design!

I very much took it to mean he was showing where it was, if you don't need to see it realigning, i wouldn't of thought you'd need to click pivot first. Leastways, one would really hope not.

Cageman
03-04-2006, 08:58 AM
We'll see what the studios will say regarding LW's "fake" APS versus Modo's *real* micropolydisplacement (their latest dev shots look terrific for terrain stuff).

Are APS and micropolydisplacement supposed to be the same thing? I view APS as a way to have more control over where subpatched objects are divided at rendertime. Increasing the level at certain places will help controll the deformation where a bone is bending etc. Maybe I'm totally wrong about this, though. :)

bluerider
03-04-2006, 12:48 PM
I very much took it to mean he was showing where it was, if you don't need to see it realigning, i wouldn't of thought you'd need to click pivot first. Leastways, one would really hope not.

Your absolutly right. The reason why the pivot point is highlighted first is to show it jump to centre.

Try it without selecting pivot first and just hit Center Pivot function first ad you'll see, its a straight forward function as you correctly state.

Thanks for your feedback, the thread has been really helpful :thumbsup:

lardbros
03-06-2006, 05:31 PM
Your absolutly right. The reason why the pivot point is highlighted first is to show it jump to centre.

Try it without selecting pivot first and just hit Center Pivot function first ad you'll see, its a straight forward function as you correctly state.

Thanks for your feedback, the thread has been really helpful :thumbsup:

:thumbsup: Good news!!