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Kurtis
02-27-2006, 03:00 PM
We've added a new LightWave v9 Feature Video to the videos page:
http://www.newtek.com/lightwave/lw9_demos.php

The new video is Modeler: Connect Tool
http://www.newtek.com/lightwave/videos/Connect.mov

MrWyatt
02-27-2006, 03:03 PM
cool. will we also get some nodal vids soon?

Kurtis
02-27-2006, 03:21 PM
As soon as they're ready. :thumbsup:

Gettarobox
02-27-2006, 03:52 PM
another "OOH!!".
BRAVO NEWTEK!!!

Intuition
02-27-2006, 04:09 PM
I've been modeling like crazy since um.....First rule of Beta 9......We do not talk about Beta9.

;)

This stuff is really speeding up workflow. I remember days of adding points and splitting polygons till my wrist was sore.

KSTAR
02-27-2006, 04:12 PM
cool video

hrgiger
02-27-2006, 04:19 PM
If you're in the beta program, these questions should be asked in the beta forum. Remember the NDA.

KSTAR
02-27-2006, 04:32 PM
oops my bad my I have made all of my post to the beta forum. I wasn't paying attention. My first mistake see edit

Snosrap
02-27-2006, 05:29 PM
[QUOTE=Kurtis] Modeler: Connect Tool

Just my first impression, but it seems like the name of the tool doesn't match it's function.
Just my2cents.

Snos

hairy_llama
02-27-2006, 05:34 PM
looks like it should be called a split tool to me... If it merged the points or polys together or made a bridge it should be called a "connect tool"

GraphXs
02-27-2006, 05:45 PM
Ya, why not just name it split, I know the old split tool is still in LW, but that what this is doing. The only difference is ya don't have to select the polys to get the split tool to work with a point selection and it makes the point shared on all neighboring polys.

I really thought is was goinong to join (connect) the edges together.

That would be cool if ya had a tool that removes edges, points or polys without deleting the face, just makes it a n-gon or poly. Anything like that planned?

riki
02-27-2006, 06:29 PM
Sweet, looks like a great time saver.

slow67
02-27-2006, 07:26 PM
looks like connect in wings3d, Only it didnt seem to keep the edges it created selected in edge mode, so you will still have to drop down to point mode to do further editing to newly created edge. It is nice to see it works in all modes tho nice.

evenflcw
02-27-2006, 07:56 PM
Acctually it does connect. It connects points to points and edges to edges via a new edge. Just like the LW8.x Bridge command (aka Connect; Bridge is the name in the default menus and Connect is the internal name. *sigh*; Acctually this command already connects points), which connects polys to polys via new poly structures. Same action, just different kind of bridge/connection,... sorta.

Despite this, I agree that the name is badly chosen. I do not think it is LW lingo. Like GraphX, I think "Split" is a more appropriate name for this function inside of LW. And if it is made able to respect polygon selection under point selections so it's completely able to mimics the legacy Split Polygon command I to think it should replace the old command. Acctually I don't care personally if it iis able to mimic the old command or not. I would replace it either way because the old one sucks so much workflow-wise anyways, that I don't know why anyone would use it. :)

On simular but more nitpicky note, I wish NT wouldn't use the term "tool" so freely. Reading about Modeler getting a new tool always gets my hopes up. I'm often dissappointed because what is shown is seldome a genuine tool by Lightwaves definition! Tools are interactive, this is not. This is a generic function or whatever, call it a command or a function. I wish it were a tool though :)

I also agree with slow67. To hold true to how Modeler functions used to work in the past, it should select new edges in edge mode, and deselect points in point mode once the operation is done. Also new polys should be automatically assigned the same sketch color/part/surface as the original polys that were split. But I'm hoping that these comments are superfluous and that multiple people on the closed and open beta teams have already reported this! ;)

Very cool and usefull function despite comments! :)

What does it do if you select polys in a cross-like shape?

EDITED MANY TIMES: Just couldn't stop adding comments!

harlan
02-27-2006, 09:28 PM
Yeah, terrible name, but nice addition to Modeler.

Matt
02-28-2006, 07:01 AM
Regarding the name, I posted exactly the same comment on SpinQuad!!! Glad I'm not the only one!

Personally I reckon 'Slice' is a good name.

Cool tool though.

Matt
02-28-2006, 07:02 AM
I guess you can always just rename the button in Modeler as a quick fix!

GruvSyco
02-28-2006, 08:43 AM
connect is the name of the module as David Ikeda created it back in the LW7.x days. I've been using this for a while, sans edges.

Lewis
02-28-2006, 10:01 AM
Hi !

Hmm I totally agree about "weird" naming scheme of this tool and to be frankly i don't see any benefit of this tool when we can do same things with "CUT" tool (and "Bandsaw" tool some things one clickfaster)?? And on top of that it's NOT interactive :(? CUT tool was interactive and then it gone to non interactive state (aparently 'coz some bug was found) and now we get something like cut tool (called connect ;)) with even less interactivity ?? CUT tool at least can be driven to cut where we want and this cuts/connects only at middle ???

Sorry but i don't get it and i don't see it's benefit greater than what would interactive CUT tool be (especialy if is now interactive again like in LW 8.2/8.3) ?? Anyone care to explain me what this tool can and CUT tool can't ?

Only difference is that you now can select EDGES but since edges didn't been present in 8.5 we can't compare that :).

I think that we just need BandsaPro V2 (or whatever would new name be) WITH ability to CUT trinagles/Ngons like CUT tool and cut selection only also. It just needs TWO more buttons/checkmarks in it's numeric panel. One called "triangles also" and other "selection only". I think both would be self explinatory - right? So my suggestion is merge CUT and BandsawPro and leave Bandsaw interactivity and that's IT :).

This tool sure ins't adding to part where we talked that LW needs to UNIFY it's tools and become more streamlined ?

Don't get me wrong this tool is OK and it might help somene who didn't work with CUT tool (I know many people even didn't try it) but i don't see any benefit of ANOTHER shortcut key occupied with tool what don't do anything new than old tools already can ??

cheers

Stooch
02-28-2006, 10:14 AM
Hmm i brought up the same point but my comment was deleted. Anyway, ill go back to bandsawing and cutting with my "connect" tool. :rolleyes:

Or should i use the knife tool? Oops, i just "connected" in the wrong place, time to undo and "cut" it. Its right next to "QuickCut" 1, 2 and 3....

bk-fx
02-28-2006, 10:20 AM
Totally agree with Lewis, we need real solutions/improvements, no renamed tools :) Of all video demos of lightwave 9, i really think that only APS, Stress shader, wind path animation and node editor are real advances.

Regards and keep working Newtek, in general terms I think you're doing a good work.

Stooch
02-28-2006, 10:34 AM
the key word here is interactive. There are plugin writers that dont work for NT who are making modeler tools that are interactive and blow away all these rehashes of bandsaw. and the best NT can do is delete my reference to THE LW PLUGIN that should be the model of how its done. Cmon now, im not advertising competitive products here, ITS A LIGHTWAVE PLUGIN for christ sake.

kylekoch
02-28-2006, 10:56 AM
the key word here is interactive. There are plugin writers that dont work for NT who are making modeler tools that are interactive and blow away all these rehashes of bandsaw. and the best NT can do is delete my reference to THE LW PLUGIN that should be the model of how its done. Cmon now, im not advertising competitive products here, ITS A LIGHTWAVE PLUGIN for christ sake.
I went and watched a video by Proton on the easysplit plug, it was version 1 then, now its 2.5, just purchased today looked so good. I am real impressed with the pictrix, lwcad, and truart plugs in combo with LW. SPmove 2 is another killer plug(pictrix)oh and ez spline !, woo hoo fun!
Simply cant wait for lw9- I only pray that the edge wgts get in there!!
later kyle

ibanezhead
02-28-2006, 11:25 AM
Maya, 3DSMax, Wings, etc, have all had this tool, with the same name, for years. Many have requested this for LW. It's great that Newtek has added it...

Lewis
02-28-2006, 11:34 AM
Hi ibanezhead !

I don't know did moderators removed part of your post or you did (I'm glad it did get removed for sake of this thread) but can you please explain me what this tool CAN do and CUT tool can't ??? Also is industry standard NONinteractive tool :)?

ibanezhead
02-28-2006, 11:36 AM
I removed it cause I thought I was being rude. So I corrected myself... Industry standard means it is used as a standard in the industry...

shermanlu
02-28-2006, 11:54 AM
yap...it looks like a split tool for me...just called it Split+
:thumbsup:

jeremyhardin
02-28-2006, 12:03 PM
don't get to model to much nowadays, but i like it. Seems much improved over the split poly tool. and cut doesn't work in point mode, does it? it seems to combine the funcionality of both, and bandsaw too.

i look forward to using this. I remember a friend showing me similiar functionality in Silo, and I wanted it then. plus it looks like it will work great with FI's Wrinkle. good job Newtek. :thumbsup: (naming aside, that is ;) )

Lewis
02-28-2006, 12:03 PM
I removed it cause I thought I was being rude. So I corrected myself... Industry standard means it is used as a standard in the industry...

Good you removed it, 'coz it was kinda rude :).

I know what you ment by industry standard but agian I still need to see what this can do and CUT tool can't and on top of that it's totally uninteractive :(. No matter of it's name (i don't care what's name of tools when i learn what they can be used for - heck bandsaw ws used for loop selecting in start) who says that tools need same name in all applications :)?

cheers

GruvSyco
02-28-2006, 12:06 PM
and cut doesn't work in point mode, does it?
Yup, sure does.

jeremyhardin
02-28-2006, 12:12 PM
hmm. just tried it, and if there's a way for it to work in point mode, it isn't obvious. again, my kudos on the new tool.

GruvSyco
02-28-2006, 12:30 PM
hmm. just tried it, and if there's a way for it to work in point mode, it isn't obvious. again, my kudos on the new tool.
Here you go... no magic. Screen caps using cut with points (LW8.5).

jeremyhardin
02-28-2006, 12:44 PM
thanks gruvsyco. like i said, it isn't obvious though. i can do your example, but not my attached one with the cut tool. the split poly tool is a little better for my attached example i guess, but consolidation of tools and making things more intuitive is a very good thing IMHO.

i don't understand people arguing with a new tool. the new one seems to be a lot more obvious and intuitive. sure we could have lived without multi-shift or translate plus, but why? and if your current workflow is fine, then cool. keep it up. :thumbsup:

GruvSyco
02-28-2006, 12:50 PM
Jeremy... try Bridge

jeremyhardin
02-28-2006, 12:55 PM
GruvSyco, I see what you're saying. But I think you're missing my point. My point is not that the tasks in the vid could not be done with the current tools. Everything we will ever need to do, we could do with 5.6. I'm not stumped on how to take 3 points and add detail. I've modeled for million dollar productions. I was just giving an example.

But the tasks in the vid are quite simplified. I'm glad you mentioned bridge, because our discussion so far has shown that very similiar tasks would have required the user to discern between using Cut, Split, Bridge, and Bandsaw, depending on the case, and all of which work differently.
Now when you want to add localized detail, you have a single tool that will work in more cases and all the selection modes. Does that make sense?

GruvSyco
02-28-2006, 01:05 PM
I'll concede your point but in all fairness, everything shown in that video could be done with just 2 tools, cut and bridge. IMO, it's not that big of a workflow boost.

I'll step out of this now because, in all fairness, I'm bascially just a disgruntled LW user anymore.

jeremyhardin
02-28-2006, 01:13 PM
Fair enough. I will concede that everything in that video could have been done with those tools too. On the other hand, there are a lot more detailing circumstances than just those shown in the video. A tool's usefulness is measured by the number of dissimiliar circumstances it can be used in efficiently (like those awesome All-in-one Ronco cookers. :D :beerchug: )

Stooch
02-28-2006, 01:51 PM
the key word here is interactive. There are plugin writers that dont work for NT who are making modeler tools that are interactive and blow away all these rehashes of bandsaw. and the best NT can do is delete my reference to THE LW PLUGIN that should be the model of how its done. Cmon now, im not advertising competitive products here, ITS A LIGHTWAVE PLUGIN for christ sake.


DOh, i take back the claim that my comment was erased. i didnt realise there are two threads about this.
my apologies.

WilliamVaughan
02-28-2006, 03:23 PM
Bridge tool in LW9 is changing. It will support Edges and the point mode will no longer function to preform a split poly type operation.

Ztreem
02-28-2006, 03:34 PM
Seems like a nice tool, but the name feels a little weird. Now if we only could get one cut tool that does it all instead of ten different cut tools.

Netvudu
02-28-2006, 04:00 PM
Personally I canīt complain about this tool. I think itīs a nice addition and deserved to be added. What it didnīt deserve IMHO is a video tutorial, sorry. At least not now. Itīs absolutely unexciting and makes people (including myself) wonder if there arenīt other cool features to show, and also wonder why weīre not getting shown great stuff that we know itīs there.

WilliamVaughan
02-28-2006, 05:31 PM
What it didnīt deserve IMHO is a video tutorial, sorry. At least not now. Itīs absolutely unexciting and makes people (including myself) wonder if there arenīt other cool features to show, and also wonder why weīre not getting shown great stuff that we know itīs there.


There is plenty of new features as listed on the feature list page.

What may be exciting to you may not excite others....what you may find not so excitingothers may find to be the greatest tool. It goes both ways.

To say a new feature is not worthy of a demo video is a bit one sided IMHO. If it's not for you...that's ok...but to assume that it's not worth a video for everyone is very one sided.

NewTek is releasing new videos at what I think is a good rate....there are plenty more to come...

I'll take any video demo I can get...if it teaches me about a tool and how to use it I'm that much more prepared to use the tool when it releases.

Enjoy the videos!

Lewis
02-28-2006, 06:48 PM
EVERY tool deserves to be added (no mattter if we already can do that ;)) so no harm is done here :).

I just hoped for more unfied tools as NT Development team told us long time ago but I guess we need to wait more for that :(.

Proton , thanks for vidoes, I agree that not all tools are great for all users so just bring them more whenever you can no matter what tool they are showing :).

Wickster
02-28-2006, 07:13 PM
i think if its new (revolutionary or not) it deserves to have a demo video. otherwise its an invisible tool for people who don't read the manual. if proton never showed that video of the connect tool i probably would have never find it come lightwave 10.

dgon64
02-28-2006, 09:20 PM
Maybe no one else is excited but I sure could've used this tool today. Knife Tool and Add Edges work fine but this tool looks like it could save time at least for me. To each his own, I guess but like I say when choosing a gift- a woman never has enough jewelry and a man could always use another tool.

kml12
02-28-2006, 09:28 PM
Keep the vids coming Proton :thumbsup:

Chris S. (Fez)
02-28-2006, 10:51 PM
Condensing tools like this is brilliant. Thank you for the video!

pauland
03-01-2006, 02:12 AM
It kind of strikes me that this is a poor mans easysplit: http://www.trueart.pl/?URIType=Directory&URI=Products/Plug-Ins/EasySplit

Netvudu
03-01-2006, 04:11 AM
To say a new feature is not worthy of a demo video is a bit one sided IMHO.

No Proton. Itīs isnīt a bit one-sided. Itīs ABSOLUTELY ONE-SIDED. :D I mean, I can only judge from my own perspective. This is, how useful a given tool is for me.

I reckon Iīm absolutely egocentric regarding video tutorials. Please, donīt call the inquisition :)

But Iīll still try to make my point, Proton. I completely admit the educational value of this videos, and how useful are and have been for me...if you admit thereīs also a marketing edge to them. :) I mean,...these feature videos, sell copies, and sell upgrades. Iīm sure just the node shader videos themselves have sold many copies/upgrades of version 9. Same thing with your the new camera videos, which will be very useful for many people, specially arch-viz type jobs. Stress map shaders will be interesting for anyone doing CA, and so on...I doubt anybody is buying LW becasue of the connect tool, but as you say I might be wrong, and someone thinks itīs the genesis for a new breed of perfect models.

Hence, being natural for us to want them to show exciting stuff. Remember: not only we want LW to be an excellent app...we also want it to be admitted by the rest of the 3d community as an excellent app. This, in the long run, opens new positions and job opportunities for everybody here...

...at least, thatīs my point of view. Your point of view could differ from mine, of course.

pauland
03-01-2006, 04:41 AM
IMHO I think any part of lightwave is worthy of a video demo and we can each decide how useful it is to us. I'm not particularly convinced that this is such a great feature though since it's rather similar to "add edges" in 8.x (and I'd venture "add edges" might be more straightforward).

So, I understand where Netvdu is coming from, but whatever features newtek wants to show is fine by me.

ibanezhead
03-01-2006, 05:26 AM
Well anyone coming from a Max/Maya style modeling background will really appreciate this tool. I for one have specifically asked for this tool, and so have others. It's a great addition, especially for Low Poly modelers and those in the gaming industry. Many of us have been using the connect tool since Max 4 came out over 5yrs ago and there was the "Meshtools" script. Here are some examples of people (including myself) requesting this tool here on the forums:

http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42351&highlight=Connect

http://www.newtek.com/forums/showpost.php?p=116225&postcount=23

http://www.newtek.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1869&postcount=8

Thanks Newtek for listening...

SaturnX
03-01-2006, 07:32 AM
I like the connect tool... its seems fast and snappy...
Only thing i'd say is, it feels more like a split tool, than a connect tool.
... it does connect points... hmm... ok now i'm confused.

Has it got a shortcut ?
I like the connect/split tool. :)

WilliamVaughan
03-01-2006, 08:48 AM
Alot of other apps call this exact funtion the Connect tool...seems like a pretty standard name.

Lewis
03-01-2006, 09:03 AM
Maybe no one else is excited but I sure could've used this tool today. Knife Tool and Add Edges work fine but this tool looks like it could save time at least for me. To each his own, I guess but like I say when choosing a gift- a woman never has enough jewelry and a man could always use another tool.

Did you tried to work with CUT tool in LW 8.5. I'm getting same results as with this tool and i have more control of it also 'coz of numeric panel alows few tweaks :). Just a hint if you really need it NOW.

WilliamVaughan
03-01-2006, 09:06 AM
As far as the naming goes...The Connect tool in other apps works the same way....

Look in:

Wings 3D
Silo
3DS Max (originally in meshtools, now integrated in Max 4.0+)
Mirai,
Nendo,
Maya with MJPolyTools

I'll have to look and see if 'connect' for XSI also works like this.

I for one don't care what it's called as long as I get to keep it :)

harlan
03-01-2006, 02:37 PM
Just for clarification purposes, I too think the "connect" tool looks great and am glad it's being included in LW9. I just think the name isn't very descriptive of its funtion. If I want to split through or divide some polys, the last place I'd look to accomplish this is a tool named "connect".

LW9 is looking great. I for one am very excited about it and look forward to the opportunity of adding LW back into our pipeline.


c'ya

Wickster
03-01-2006, 03:50 PM
Strictly in regards to the Connect Tool.

Let's just face it, we were blessed with bandsaw pro, quicksaw and quickcut. Just think of the poor folks who used another app that didn't know about this and had to resort to Adding Edges one at a time, and finally had to result in downloading an external plugin called "MJ Poly something" to match LW's own Bandsaw Pro which we had the luxury of using for so long now.

I mean yeah it does the same thing as other tools but this is a workflow improvement for speed modelers, map it to key and just hit and divide. 'Points' , 'Edges' and 'Polys' alike.

Tima
03-01-2006, 04:31 PM
sorry i don't have read all post
but a don't understand qhat this fonction bring in the modeler.

1. Bandsaw can make split poly in loop, why do not make an option to not affect loop mode.
2. To split polygon from point selection you can use Split tool.

3. Ok this tool apply on edge selection, but we have another tool... name QuickCut1 , 2 and 3.

i think this tool is just completly useless, or you can make just one tool who make all of this fonction...

jeremyhardin
03-01-2006, 04:39 PM
sorry i don't have read all post
but a don't understand qhat this fonction bring in the modeler.

1. Bandsaw can make split poly in loop, why do not make an option to not affect loop mode.
2. To split polygon from point selection you can use Split tool.

3. Ok this tool apply on edge selection, but we have another tool... name QuickCut1 , 2 and 3.

i think this tool is just completly useless, or you can make just one tool who make all of this fonction...
a. this has been mentioned already. it's polite to read previous posts before replying to those posts. listen to others, and they're more likely to listen to you.

b. don't like it? don't upgrade, or continue using the tools you like even after upgrading.

ibanezhead
03-01-2006, 05:12 PM
Connect is good because you can add an edge between just 2 verts, unlike bandsaw. It is called connect because you can connect verts with an edge, and also connect edges together with another edge. It's benefit is that you can just choose 2 edges or 2 verts and not have it split all the way through the loop. It is also nice when needing to quickly make a tri, and only need to make one at a time. The only difference between LW's connect and other's is that LW's seems to also add a poly function. This might be what is throwing people off. The connect tool of other apps generally only works on verts and edges.

ih

dgon64
03-01-2006, 06:14 PM
Lewis-thanks for the tip but my real point was as a guy and the son of a carpenter, a new tool to play with is just too inviting to pass up-plus it does seem to offer to speed up some operations. BTW how's Croatia this time of year? I have close friends who are Croatian and they always tell me how beautiful your country is. Best wishes!

Lewis
03-01-2006, 06:44 PM
Lewis-thanks for the tip but my real point was as a guy and the son of a carpenter, a new tool to play with is just too inviting to pass up-plus it does seem to offer to speed up some operations. BTW how's Croatia this time of year? I have close friends who are Croatian and they always tell me how beautiful your country is. Best wishes!

Ahh sooo I didn't catch your point instantly :) :D. Croatia is cold right now , -5C degrees at nights and +5C at day but it's getting warmer :)

P.S. "cut" tool is still my favourite and if is speed wise "connect" vs "cut/quickcut" then why not just add shortcuts to Quick Cut 1,2,3 and it would be 1 click also - so no speed advantage of "connect tool" :).

dgon64
03-01-2006, 07:44 PM
Good point but I'm still looking forward to messing around with any new tool.

Nemoid
03-01-2006, 11:53 PM
the goodness is that you can do different operations depending from what mode you are in so its quite like sorta 3 tools into one. it will come in handy.

Tima
03-02-2006, 01:18 AM
a. this has been mentioned already. it's polite to read previous posts before replying to those posts. listen to others, and they're more likely to listen to you.

b. don't like it? don't upgrade, or continue using the tools you like even after upgrading.

it is not worth while to be irritated :thumbsdow


Connect is good because you can add an edge between just 2 verts, unlike bandsaw. It is called connect because you can connect verts with an edge, and also connect edges together with another edge. It's benefit is that you can just choose 2 edges or 2 verts and not have it split all the way through the loop. It is also nice when needing to quickly make a tri, and only need to make one at a time. The only difference between LW's connect and other's is that LW's seems to also add a poly function. This might be what is throwing people off. The connect tool of other apps generally only works on verts and edges.

ih

i just demand an explantion like this one.
thx for summary.
it is just to hard for me to understand all posts, that's all :D

BazC
03-02-2006, 04:18 AM
This isn't about adding abilities that Lightwave doesn't already have, you can already model anything in lightwave so no tool will make it more capable. They can make it smoother, faster or more pleasurable to use though!

The connect tool is a fast versatile tool that doesn't require pop up screens and checkboxes and that's great! Anyone coming from Wings, Silo, Mirai etc will appreciate this tool. If you have more complex requirements continue using tools like cut and bandsaw.

We all know modeler tools need streamlining but that doesn't mean that every tool need a dozen options and interactivity! If I were in charge of Modeler development I'd work towards 2 distinct toolsets. One would be very simple and direct in the vein of Wings, Silo and Polyboost (plugin for Max) Connect fit's in this toolbox nicely!

The other would be a sophisticated interactive toolset with loads of options for more specialised modeling. I don't want to mess with pop-up menus and options when I'm modeling a head! - Baz

SaturnX
03-02-2006, 06:13 AM
The connect tool is a fast versatile tool that doesn't require pop up screens and checkboxes and that's great! Anyone coming from Wings, Silo, Mirai etc will appreciate this tool. If you have more complex requirements continue using tools like cut and bandsaw.

Yup.
I wasnt sure about the connect option myself.. but after much thought and philosophical mediation... i quickly realised just how flippin 'handy' and 'fast' this tool can be when adding edges etc to tough little 'head wrecking' areas in your geometry.

connect is nice.

ok, next video please.

Lewis
03-02-2006, 09:46 AM
The connect tool is a fast versatile tool that doesn't require pop up screens and checkboxes and that's great! Anyone coming from Wings, Silo, Mirai etc will appreciate this tool. If you have more complex requirements continue using tools like cut and bandsaw.


I Understand your point but it looks to me that many LW users really don't use current LW tools (not aimed to you specifically :)). LW "QuickCUT" tool works without popups and it can be attached to shortcut and you get same thing (you even Have 3 versions To use if you don't need just cut at middle you can cut/connect wherever you want wiht one button/key hit). On top of that you can EDIT it's properties (in LW tools panel) to have different ways of behaviour so once you are setup what you like you work at SAME speed (one click like with connect tool). Nobody yet showed me what this tool can and QuickCUT or CUT tool can't. That's why i don't get it :). I don't have anything against it but i don't se it's benefit either when we have tool that will do same thing with same speed in LW8.5 :).





I don't want to mess with pop-up menus and options when I'm modeling a head! - Baz

AGAIN like I said TRY QuickCut tool - no popups, more options to tweak (if you want) and one click solution :).

cheers

BazC
03-02-2006, 10:13 AM
Well I don't think I'm going to convince you that this is a great tool any more than you will convince me it's not needed lol!
You're right, QuickCut is a cool tool (3 tools!) but I prefer using connect. There's no way to connect 2 points with QuickCut is there? I know you can use split (which I hate!) but connect will work on edges, points and polys. It's a matter of feel too, Connect is kind of like drawing with a lump of charcoal, Cut and even QuickCut feels like using a set square and pencil!

If Newtek also update "add edges" to work as well as the connect tool in Wings, or the upcoming combined split tool and split loop tools in Silo, or even Cinema R9 knife tool I'll be a very happy bunny! :D - Baz

Lewis
03-02-2006, 11:08 AM
Hi Baz !

We CAN'T talk about CUT tool work on EGES 'coz LATEST finsihed LW don't have EDGES - right :). I'm just saying that CUT tool could been upgraded to have that same thing (work with edges 'coz it currently works with Polys and points same way as connect) of connecting two points instead doing "new" tool what have less options than "old" tool (i'm doing merging wiht two points with BRIDGE tool now so that's answer to your other question :)). To my POV they just could enhance current CUT tool and it would be better than adding another tool :). To me this tool is not any better than new Null tool what almost all of users were complaining how it's not justified to make video of THAT (while i liked that video more than current one since it provides more enhancments than this new connect tool :)). Of course that's just my POV and yours could differ but then again I'm 90% of time in modeler (every day in week) so what would i know.

BazC
03-02-2006, 11:24 AM
Well it seems to me that the bridge tool and connect tool are the same thing, they have the same shortcut (lower case l) select faces and you get a bridge, select points and you connect them. Apparently this is changing in LW9 so maybe we should wait and see how it pans out!?

You're absolutely right you obviously use modeler a lot more than me and know it much better. However there is no right way to design a modeling app, work flow and modeling style vary from person to person. I come to Lightwave from Wings and Silo and the connect tool suits my workflow and style! :D

I'm looking forward to seeing how modeler develops!

Lewis
03-02-2006, 11:46 AM
I'm too looking forward to see how well modeler will develop :).

Your remark about right way to design modleing app is absolutely true but then agian i don't see how this tool could redesing way of work in LW 'coz it's pretty small tool for such BIG task and we already have similar tools :).

OK lets wait and see more LW9 videos :).

Nemoid
03-03-2006, 05:46 AM
ths best solution would be to have a single tool, with an options panel, and tool + option checked keyable, (its not the same as to have several tools)
in that way, you could make for example cut tool behave like ,lets say, split polygon tool in maya and key it, or behave like connect and key to another one... same tool, one panel different behaviours, different keys.

just adding options on the same panel, without key possibility would slow workflow down and you will have the **** panel popping up every time.
no way.

pauland
03-03-2006, 07:04 AM
This is one thing that I'm sorryabout the way lightwave has gone. Every new tool needs a new button to use it, or you have another shortcut to assign/remember. I suspect that in reality there are only a limited number of operations that people are interested in, but with variants on those operations.

Other software (not just in the 3D field, and god forbid - even with icons) get around this with flyouts or option menus selected on the panel. So, the panel would show the cut tool, but hovering over it you would be presented with all the variants in a menu to choose the particular cut tool that you wanted. The button then reflects that choice, so now choosing that option will give you that variant. This minimises the number of buttons required and allows you to easily switch between variants.

The second PIA is with popup panels, modal or otherwise. It would be great if there were an optional ever-present context-sensitive panel to replace the popups, so that setting numeric values/options would be easy, without messing around with the popup. I know this would require some screen real estate, but peoples displays are getting ever bigger and if it were optional, there wouldn't be a problem.

The use of separate tools to do the same kind of thing, needs to go - have variants of the same tool presented together rather than as separate things altogether.

I particularly like how the macromedia user interfaces have evolved in this respect.

2p over with!

Paul

metahumanity
03-03-2006, 10:58 AM
I'm too looking forward to see how well modeler will develop :).

.


Wasnīt LW to be unified? I thought Modeler development would be dropped?!

SaturnX
03-03-2006, 11:10 AM
Wasnīt LW to be unified? I thought Modeler development would be dropped?!


less of that !

Sensei
03-03-2006, 12:23 PM
It kind of strikes me that this is a poor mans easysplit: http://www.trueart.pl/?URIType=Directory&URI=Products/Plug-Ins/EasySplit

Maybe poor, but will kill EasySplit purchases for good..

Snosrap
03-03-2006, 07:42 PM
Maybe poor, but will kill EasySplit purchases for good..

Lower your price Sensei and I bet you'll be pleasantly surprised as how well it sells. I had been using Mootools 3D Browser Free for a year or so, and always thought I'd like to financially support Manuel, but it wasn't until he had a Christmas sale that I jumped on it for $19.95. Twenty dollars is pocket change, $50 you really have to think about it and most the time it can be hard to justify. Just a thought.

Cheers
Snos

Sensei
03-03-2006, 08:55 PM
Lower your price Sensei and I bet you'll be pleasantly surprised as how well it sells.

Only if there would be big title "in promotion just to xxx date for 30/40 $".. ;)

To be honest, when EasySplit was for $30 in March to August 2005, I have earned less than when it was for $50..

But generally you have to blame mr. Bush for that.. In 2002 1 USD was 4 PLN, and now it's just 3 PLN..

http://www2.trueart.pl/Products/Plug-Ins/EasySplit/Graphics/Movies/EasySplit_3.mov
(from new very fast secondary server)

EasySpline real-time patching show might start even today :D

Nemoid
03-04-2006, 02:37 AM
This is one thing that I'm sorryabout the way lightwave has gone. Every new tool needs a new button to use it, or you have another shortcut to assign/remember. I suspect that in reality there are only a limited number of operations that people are interested in, but with variants on those operations.

Other software (not just in the 3D field, and god forbid - even with icons) get around this with flyouts or option menus selected on the panel. So, the panel would show the cut tool, but hovering over it you would be presented with all the variants in a menu to choose the particular cut tool that you wanted. The button then reflects that choice, so now choosing that option will give you that variant. This minimises the number of buttons required and allows you to easily switch between variants.

The second PIA is with popup panels, modal or otherwise. It would be great if there were an optional ever-present context-sensitive panel to replace the popups, so that setting numeric values/options would be easy, without messing around with the popup. I know this would require some screen real estate, but peoples displays are getting ever bigger and if it were optional, there wouldn't be a problem.

The use of separate tools to do the same kind of thing, needs to go - have variants of the same tool presented together rather than as separate things altogether.

I particularly like how the macromedia user interfaces have evolved in this respect.

2p over with!

Paul

IMO the prob doesn't really rely in buttons or shortcuts, especially shortcuts. working alot into an app and using it through shortcuts is one of the best methods to work fast. the prob relies more in what you say ; different tools for similar tasks and ways to organize /reunite them.

in this particular case , connect tool is not that bad , because it reunites something like 3 tools at the same time, and works with all modes, differently from cut, and bandsaw, bandsaw pro...

the best way to organize these tools for the future is just to use a tool property editor. we have numeric panel for that, so, if every tool used has its option under that panel we wouldn't have any probs. even better, if we canassign shortcuts to tool + option

BazC
03-04-2006, 03:13 AM
Wasnīt LW to be unified? I thought Modeler development would be dropped?!

Nope! As I understand it modeler tools will be available in Layout but modeler will still exist as a seperate programme.