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Edbittner
02-26-2006, 05:31 AM
For anyone who has read comics anytime in the last40 years,(or less), there's this effect called the "Kirby Crackle". This is the effect that Jack "The King" Kirby made,(invented), to show everything from energy surges to foaming water. So, here's the deal; Does-
1). Anyone know what I'm talking about? And-
2). Anyone know how to achieve this effect in Lightwave?
I've got an idea, and this effect would be perfect for it. Not to mention that the one who comes up with a 3D version of this 2D effect will have everyone using it.
E.

Edbittner
02-27-2006, 06:03 AM
Anyone? They kinda tried it in "Hellboy", but I don't think it worked very well.

E.

starbase1
02-27-2006, 06:41 AM
Looking at the example you show, I'd suggest 2 sprays of particles wiith HV's applied - one smooth volumetric gassy one with an age gradient on the colour for the fire / water jet, and a second with black knobbly lumps (ie hypertexture)that start to grow a short way into their life...

Nearest I have seen was this:

http://www.starbase1.co.uk/galleries/Graphics/Science%20Fiction/Nebulae/slides/nebubok.html

Which came out of the 'KLets build a nebula' thread, only for your example you would need different geometry...

Nick

HowardM
03-04-2006, 07:18 AM
did you search CGtalk and Spinquad, could of sworn i saw posts about this years ago...

Edbittner
03-04-2006, 07:27 AM
Howard,
Yeah, I think it was me that posted those, but I could be mistaken. I'll run a search and see what I come up with. Thanks,
E.

jeremyhardin
03-06-2006, 12:43 PM
a quick google search explained it further. it's apparently supposed to be used to create negative space more than defining shape itself:
http://www.penciljack.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16461

aurora
03-06-2006, 02:28 PM
Hey Ed, I have to admit I never knew that look had a name let alone a whole major topic. l have never made that kind of effect but I believe I can come up with something simular to the 'kirby dots' as illustarted in Jeremy's link. Let me see if I can do it and if so I'll post a quick tut and scene for you.
Question, what type of lighting & shading are you looking for for this effect?

Edbittner
03-07-2006, 04:36 AM
Jeremy,
Yeah, I understand that Jack Kirby evolved this effect over the years after seeing a photo of a deep space supernova. Thanks for the link.........

Aurora,
The lighting would be brightest at the "core" of the energy field. The surrounding "dots" would be the falloff, with maybe some vol. light shafts escaping through them. This effect is great for a dark background,(space for example), but it's in the real world lighting conditions that throw a wrench into the thing. Hey, any ideas or tuts would be cool. Heeere's a test.........
E.

aurora
03-07-2006, 08:17 AM
Well I almost have something working and looking like the image in Jeremy's link. Still trying to fine tune the number and size of the spheres. Theres a really, really, REALLY fine line between to many and none. I've got alot of work I need to get done this morning but I'll get back to it this afternoon and post an image or two along with the details.
Till then basically what I have done is made two HV emitter's one parented to the other. The second one (child emitter) is set to be a have a nozzle type of parent emitter. I set the parent emitter up with some heacy explosion motion. The child then emits particles along the parent particles path with some vibration. Then I adjust the sizes of the child HV's with a funky gradient. So in essence's its kinda like a fireworks setup, sorta.
Once I finish tweaking the sizing, the real trick will be finding a way to back the spheres look more seperated from each other, this is were life gets nasty real quick.

Edbittner
03-07-2006, 11:31 AM
aurora,
Listen, anything you can do to help make this happen will be GREATLY appreciated! As I said before, whoever comes up with a 3D ver. of this effect will probably be as well known as Jack "The King" Kirby himself. And surely coppied as much. The Kirby crackle is like..............immortal.
Thanks,
E.

aurora
03-07-2006, 03:34 PM
We'll I still have abit of work to get it right but I think I finally found the right path to follow. Let me know what you think of this compared to what you envision and then I'll move in that direction.

http://www.auroragrafx.com/images/Posting/KirbyDots_Mar_07_06.jpg

[EDIT]FYI, render time was 1min 36 sec on a AMD 4800 64 X2 dual core, 2gig ram, FX6800GS, AA-Enhanced high, volumetric HV's

aurora
03-07-2006, 04:27 PM
Heres another attempt

http://www.auroragrafx.com/images/Posting/KirbyDots_V2_Mar_07_06.jpg

Edbittner
03-08-2006, 06:35 AM
aurora,
It's like Jeremy and the article in the link he provided said:
"What makes the "Kirby dots" work is not the dots themselves, but the NEGATIVE SPACE around the dots."
This is more of what I had in mind,maybe a more realistic approach;
E.

Edbittner
03-08-2006, 06:56 AM
Or even...........
E.

aurora
03-08-2006, 08:08 AM
OK, wow, well thats a much bigger challenge. I LOVE CHALLENGES! I'll need to take a slightly different approach to this but I have a few different ideas to start with :beerchug:

GregMalick
03-08-2006, 11:16 AM
Ed,
Kirby is my all time favorite. Romita just behind him.

I was messing with Surface HVs - BESM to make them black.
Gradient linked to Particle Age - very tiny at birth - huge later....
here's a pic. Can't get it right.
Maybe shooting them at the camera would help.

BTW - how did you do that fire - is it simply a jpeg background?

GregMalick
03-08-2006, 11:26 AM
Looks like I'm in the Negative Zone!

Edbittner
03-08-2006, 11:39 AM
Greg,
The first 2 were vol. lights with black orbs. The last 3 were vol. lights only. Instead of having the spot light pointing directly at the camera as in the first 3, I aimed it from right to left, and another from left to right.
E.

aurora
03-08-2006, 11:46 AM
I second Gregs question, how did you create the 'fire' effects? It seems to me I knew how to do this once using volumetric lighting with procedurals but I never came up with anything so complex. But you do have something working in the right directio thats for dang sure. From there its semi-easy to add in negative space HV's.

aurora
03-08-2006, 12:38 PM
Ok I have my volumetric light trick working but what kinda of procedural setup did you use on them?

Edbittner
03-08-2006, 01:46 PM
Ok.
I don't know if this will load up. But here goes...............It should, put it in your vol. light presets-workspace.
E.
P.S. Let's not forget the "Kirby Crackle" out of all this........

aurora
03-08-2006, 02:38 PM
Got it, NICE!

GregMalick
03-08-2006, 03:23 PM
Punching holes in it with Crust.
I can't get Dots to do what I want.

aurora
03-08-2006, 05:14 PM
Best I have come up with so far :confused: I need rethink the process I'm using, its semi-close yet impossible to take farther. I'll sleep on it and see what I can create tomorrow.
http://www.auroragrafx.com/images/Posting/KirbyDots_Mar_08_06.jpg


[EDIT]Why is it my images not get displayed as thumbnails???

Dexter2999
03-08-2006, 07:07 PM
I am just a beginner so I am prepared to get shot down with this, but here goes....

It seems to me that the Kirby effect looks more like a flame thrower in reverse with the negative areas added. If you drew your path for your punch then the fire effect would be a tail. The negative dots placed on an invisible mesh as an emmitter that is triggered on collision when the fist passes through.

aurora
03-08-2006, 07:24 PM
You claim to be a beginner but I think you lost me. From what I think I understand it sounds like a viable plan. You gonna try it?

I think I have a way to combine a couple different methods to get this to work.

aurora
03-08-2006, 10:33 PM
I know this is not what we are after but it was a massive screw up that actually holds promise to getting the right effect with a bit more fiddeling. Now that the math part of my brain is working I might be closer to a simple(-ish) solution. Either way I thought this screw up was kinda funky.
http://www.auroragrafx.com/images/Posting/KirbyWild_Mar_08_06.jpg

Edbittner
03-09-2006, 03:45 AM
Excellent work guys. Gettin' closer here too.( I think).
E.

aurora
03-09-2006, 08:17 AM
Man heres a question I should have thought about at the very beginning. I'm assumming that we want this to have full animation capability correct? I was thinking along those terms when I started with the HV approach, then kinda got hooked on the V-lighting,. While V-lighting 'can' be animated it ALOT harder to control for this kind of effect. So I think I'll work on a combo of the two approaches.

Edbittner
03-09-2006, 08:33 AM
That's what those three pics in the previous post are. Animatable HV's w/ Vol. lights. The "surge" will come from the HV's then the blast from the Vol. light,( which texture can be animated). Actually, I had the 2 HV emitters following a path, then,(with the light), BZZZT-CRACKLE, then fade. Method works, still tweeking the look though.
E.

aurora
03-09-2006, 08:38 AM
Yeah I agree with this approach. I think I found a way to get the dark zones using v-lighting but controling them to do what you want, well they don't obey the flow you'd want thats for dang sure. But mixing the v-lighting for the bright zones and the HV's for the dark zones (like you did) provides the best of all worlds. I tried something really quickly and it showed great promise. However I have a bunch of work I have to get done this morning before I can get back at it. But I'll have time this afternoon.

Edbittner
03-09-2006, 08:53 AM
A small comparison test coming soon..
E.

aurora
03-09-2006, 03:40 PM
Ed, so tell me how do you envision this to be animated over time and what kind of parameters would you like to see if (and I use that 'if' loosely right now) I were to create 2 plugins to create this effect????

prospector
03-09-2006, 04:06 PM
well if your already talkin plug-ins then there are no ifs ands or buts, you found the answer :dance:

aurora
03-09-2006, 04:25 PM
Not really, gotta create it first and in order to do that I need to see what it is I'm really trying to create.

Edbittner
03-09-2006, 09:59 PM
aurora,
It would seem to me,( having only seen 2D images of this effect, unless anyone remembers the short-lived, Lightwave effects driven Silver Surfer cartoon show), one has to make a decision when to and when NOT to use the Kirby Krackle effect. "Jack Kirby didn't always use it for everything. He usually used it for energy effects, most often regarding cosmic energy (but sometimes for fire effects too)". So, that being said, it appears to me to be something like a firestorm. Where the center of the event is SO hot , it actually burns the surrounding air into ash which cools as it dissapates, hence the "blobs" or "dots" that eventually fade or dissolve. It would also make more visual sense always having those black dots surrounding the hottest space itself. It's weird cuz some people see the black dots, where others see the "crackling" open center.
So, to answer your question, the surrounding black dots would be in motion enough to give the illusion that the "hot" center was indeed crackling. Yes?

aurora
03-10-2006, 03:39 PM
Sorry Ed, been out all day. I have a VERY sick pup I've been dealing with. I'll try and get back to working on this some more.
Question, should I work on making the black spheroid negative space blob thingies sharp and clear edged or diffuse and volumetric? Ideally I'd think we'd want something setup making the switch from smooth to diffuse easy as pie. What do you think?

Edbittner
03-11-2006, 07:12 AM
aurora,
I really think they should sharp closest to center and "blobby" on the outside. I just don't know. I think Greg got pretty close on a couple of his. Gotta re-think my method here.
E.

GregMalick
03-11-2006, 10:30 AM
Some thoughts:

1. An animated effect like this will be visible for only (at most) a few seconds.
2. The crisp edges are what lend the feeling of speed and energy
3. The background will not always be black - I'm thinking of compositing and using the black as an alpha
4. I absolutely love Ed's light procedural... but I'm not sure how to make it animate down a spline path
5. I'm thinking this is some sort of plasma effect - something between lightning & ball-lightning.
6. After the effect is seen, a whisp of smoke would be hanging in the air along that spline path - slowly disipating.

So I'm convinced this is a multiple technique effect.

But Aurora - if you could write a procedural that did the "Kirby" negative hole punch effect along a specified 2-pt poly chain AND be able to use a weight map to control the "bubble" sizes - well that would be a huge part of this. Make it crisp - we can always use a guassian blur to soften the edges.

That poly-chain could also be used with an HV emmitter to set up the after-effect smoke.


:D

Dexter2999
03-11-2006, 01:31 PM
Greg,
That is the train of thought I was entertaining. Separate techniques or rather what I was working with was separate hypervoxel emitter processes. The Kirby Effect black blobs also would seem to need to be enveloped, as would the smoke effect. (I am envisioning a sort of after moment (or pre) where the clinched fist is still crackling from the energy and smoke whisps up.
So you have:
1. fire or plasma effect
2. negative space Kirby Effect
3. smoke effect
I think for whatever reason I have always made the leap to the fire effect. After seeing some of the test here so far I think the plasma would look pretty Bad @ss.
You guys are doing some nice work on this.

aurora
03-11-2006, 03:52 PM
Greg, I know what you mean by animating the lights. I've been working on that as well. I think that I can easily enough create the negative voids with HV's. Thats not where I'm struggling, its getting the hot 'crackle' area to work nicely. But I'm close, real close, hopefully I'll have an animation by Monday. I have a extremely sick dog I'm tending right now so I won't be around nor get much done on it this weekend.

Edbittner
03-12-2006, 01:59 PM
Think I'm gettin' closer guys. Frames 41 and 80 nad out of 120.
E.

aurora
03-12-2006, 03:27 PM
The crackle part looks great! HV, VL or both?

colkai
03-13-2006, 03:15 AM
I have a extremely sick dog I'm tending right now so I won't be around nor get much done on it this weekend.

OT: Hope doggy gets better, I know how distressing it is. Please let me know by PM Aurora.

GregMalick
03-13-2006, 12:02 PM
PS version of what's in my mind.
Ed's Volumetric-Light doesn't yet follow the negative space "crackle" flow.

<snip>

I just deleted a huge paragraph of ideas because each one has serious animations drawbacks. I keep coming back to HV's and needing a specially developed particle emitter that disperses the particles in a Kirby-like pattern. These could at least be viewed in real time - which pixel and image filters lack.
HV's could be applied to them and all the HV surfacing options would be available. You could also switch from Volume to sprite for the "smoke" after-effect.

I'm just not sure the SDK allows for developing custom particle emitters.

Edbittner
03-13-2006, 01:00 PM
Greg, you're right.
Got rid of the vol light idea a while ago. Couldn't make it work. Been trying HV's.4 emitters. Don't know about the blobs yet though.
E.

aurora
03-13-2006, 01:27 PM
I like that image Greg, it helps me out tons. Plus now I know I'm on the right track.
As for the SDK allowing you to create custom pXF emitters, she sure does. I do it all the time. Make it using a 'custom object' plugin.
I somehow seem to remember doing one with as a displacement plugin once but that's probably the lack of food today.

Colkai, thanks- Zando is not doing so well. He's had cancer for many moons. I'll PMail you in just a few with that image I promised you of my new friend.

aurora
03-13-2006, 04:06 PM
Hmmm, I somehow missed your last thread Ed, sorry about that. You answered my question about the crackle part. I have one last attempt I'm going to make with using VL's for the crackle. If it goes south then I'll go straight back to HV's for the crackle.

aurora
03-13-2006, 05:19 PM
Well heres my last attempt at using VL's so close yet SO far away

GregMalick
03-13-2006, 06:04 PM
Well heres my last attempt at using VL's so close yet SO far away


not so far away. I think it's the best one yet. :thumbsup:

Can you pump up the hotspot area a bit?


oh... what was your render time? I'd like to see this puppy move. :D

aurora
03-13-2006, 06:19 PM
Can you pump up the hotspot area a bit?
Yes that I can do easily.


oh... what was your render time? I'd like to see this puppy love
The render time was less then a minute (with no AA). But as for animating, well, thats where I finally gave up, It can't get it to animate correctly. I'm trying a couple last things that I thought about during dinner.

aurora
03-13-2006, 06:45 PM
Strike that I just found a bug (well in my book) and managed to get it animating thanks to the bug. So I'm going to stay quite. Now to get the rest of it moving nicely. Once I do that I'm render up an animation.

GregMalick
03-13-2006, 07:42 PM
BTW, I said "see this puppy move" not "see this puppy love"

We know what is on your mind.... :lol:

aurora
03-13-2006, 10:25 PM
BTW, I said "see this puppy move" not "see this puppy love"
If only there some truth into that. Sadly the only puppy love I have right now is for a 13yr huskey pup that is dying.
But enough of that. Heres a quick .avi animation from the previous image setup I posted. It should have given it alittle more velocity. Maybe tomorrow.
Render time with enhanced low 2 minutes on the nose.

[EDIT]OK so the zip did not attach after all. So Greg what is it we are doing wrong with attaching zipped files?
So here it is here my site.KirbySVL.zip (http://www.auroragrafx.com/images/Posting/KirbySVL.zip) (right click save as)

GregMalick
03-13-2006, 11:02 PM
Sory to hear about your puppy...

Is that the "cone" as a VolumetricLight trick or am I looking at HV's?
Whatever - it definitely is cool SciFi-FX.

Is it possible to get the motion moving toward the apex of the cone?
And maybe one a whole lot faster.

And you need to tell us what you're doing... :D

Edbittner
03-14-2006, 05:10 AM
Still trying here guys.........
E.

aurora
03-14-2006, 08:07 AM
Ed's got it, its a vulometric spotlight, only I have a twist that Ed can't try. Looks like you also found the interesting effect of using sprite mode in that second image. So Ed now knows theres a few limitations. First and worst its ogt horrible edgeing thanks to the cone of the spotlight and adjusting Soft edge does not help, However right before I quit for the night last night to start the renders I found something that may help with that. Gonna try it today.

bobakabob
03-14-2006, 08:51 AM
Great thread! :D

Aurora, Edbittner and GregMalick,

Those hypervoxel textures look fantastic. I had a go at creating animateable Kirby style outer space textures a while ago. They're not quite as wild...

http://www.invisibleray.co.uk/artwork/1_starmap.jpg

Here's a link to the animation (the "Kirby Krackles" appear at the end). It's still a WIP. I think the crackles should be slower. I'll post some settings soon :)

http://www.invisibleray.co.uk/lambretta.htm

aurora
03-14-2006, 09:40 AM
Nice colors! I'm a sucker for vivid blues and purples. DL'ed the vid buthave yet to watch it.

OK so heres the next iteration.

GregMalick
03-14-2006, 09:57 AM
Still trying here guys.........
E.
Ed - those are awesome!
Looking a bit like Johny Storm's flame... (see below)

In post #46 you mentioned you gave up on the VL idea.
I'm hoping these are HV's that could be applied to the vertices of any surface.

bobakabob - heh heh - cool. Quadrophenia meets StarTrek.

Aurora - looks like you and Ed are arriving at the same place.
But is it the same path?

a couple of Kirby's for inspiration....
notice how the inker blew it on the second image - makes the leopard look pregnant ;)

starbase1
03-14-2006, 03:20 PM
Yes, these are coming along VERY well! How about sharing a preset or two??

Nick

aurora
03-14-2006, 04:04 PM
PMail me if your interested.

FYI, give up working on VL's back to playing with HV's

Edbittner
03-15-2006, 09:24 AM
What I first started with, before starting this thread, was LW's fractal noise, or even turbulence. However it didn't seem "punchy" enough for me. A little too cloudy, not enough crackle. So, that brings us to a method, (which I have now), that gives me control over texture, speed and opacity. It ain't perfect yet but...............it's a little closer, VLs and HVs.
E.

aurora
03-15-2006, 09:58 AM
BUt have you found a way to conrtol the animation of the VL to do what you want when you want? Thats where I finally caved and have gone back to HV's & HV's

Edbittner
03-15-2006, 11:32 AM
aurora,
Well, yes I believe I have.
E.

aurora
03-15-2006, 11:45 AM
These last two images are fantastic Ed!!

aurora
03-15-2006, 11:54 AM
Hey Ed any chance of a scene file when you get a chance. I want to try something with your VL setup.

Edbittner
03-15-2006, 12:06 PM
Thanks,
When I consider it good enough to share, instead of a "test", yeah, I'll give up the scene file.
E.

aurora
03-15-2006, 02:32 PM
Works for me :)
Probably better not to distract myself with new issues to play with while I'm trying my own HV/HV tests

aurora
03-31-2006, 03:15 PM
Hey Ed any decent progress lately? I have to admit I have totally side tracked myself on coding work and have not done more then thought about this the last couple weeks.

Edbittner
04-01-2006, 07:02 AM
aurrrora,
I've been swamped with work, so I haven't had the time to do any further work on this effect.( Gotta pay the bills first, eh)? But, hopefully, soon this present project will be finished, on time, and I can get back to the freetime stuff. I'd like to see some of your work on this..........
E.

aurora
04-02-2006, 02:22 PM
I have been playing with other things the last couple weeks. I'll have to find time to jump back into this week.

GregMalick
02-25-2007, 08:09 PM
RJ made a tutorial on on Kirby Crackle using IFW2N:

http://www.ifw2.com/IFW2_Nodal/IFW2N_Kirby.html

aurora
02-25-2007, 09:05 PM
Man that was just way to simple :)
I just wish somebody would explain to me why I still have not invested in IFW2 Nodes. Thats kinda like chewing with only your upper jaw.

GregMalick
02-25-2007, 10:41 PM
;D That must be a Colorado-ism. :D

I also asked RJ if he would do a tutorial on how to do procedural Speed Lines with IFW2N. We'll have to wait and see if he comes up with something on that too.

jin choung
02-26-2007, 03:43 AM
anybody see the silver surfer animated show a while back? it was done in lightwave and i think they nailed the kirby crackle dead on....

jin

GregMalick
02-26-2007, 08:10 AM
anybody see the silver surfer animated show a while back? it was done in lightwave and i think they nailed the kirby crackle dead on....

jin

If someone can find a pic from that series showing the Kirby Crackle - please post in in this thread so we can see.

:D

Edbittner
02-27-2007, 03:22 PM
[QUOTE=Edbittner]
It would seem to me,( having only seen 2D images of this effect, unless anyone remembers the short-lived, Lightwave effects driven Silver Surfer cartoon showQUOTE] from page 4.........
It's difficult to say what was 2D or 3D on that "toon" show.
BTW, this is the closest I've gotten so far.
E.

aurora
02-27-2007, 03:44 PM
I have a few minor things I'm working on for 9.2 presets but as soon as I'm done with those setup/renders I think I'm going to give this another shot and see if I can come up with something new.

GregMalick
02-27-2007, 04:02 PM
Ed,

That's kinda dark & spooky....



meaning: it's very cool! :D

Edbittner
02-28-2007, 07:04 AM
Greg,
Thanks.
What I finally discovered is, that not only can you control the brightness,
color and the shape of the "energy", (and animate), you can also,(with the proper set-up), key it in to an existing scene. Wow, I haven't thought about this for quite a time now.
E.

GregMalick
02-28-2007, 08:22 AM
Ed,
I think we discussed this to death before - but I can't remember the technique
you used. Could you remind us....

Oh and here's a screen capture of the IFW2N Kirby Crackle....

GregMalick
02-28-2007, 08:29 AM
5 minute time limit (felt like 2 minutes)...

Here's an excellent example of Kirby Crackle and Speedlines on Galactus in FF#50. I guess I just love 2D effects. Makes my imagination spin...

Edbittner
03-03-2007, 11:08 AM
Greg,
You're right, we discussed this to death. About a year ago as I recall. My final solution was volumetric lights and HVs. Loaded this as an update.....
E.

Edbittner
03-03-2007, 11:29 AM
Meant to post this one.........
E.

aurora
03-03-2007, 03:34 PM
Nice Silver Surfer with the setup!
Did you ever get the preset stuff from me Ed?

Edbittner
03-04-2007, 08:03 AM
aurora,
Thanks about the sufer model. Just something I had sitting around. I wanted to try a nodal surface for the silver this time around.
Oh, and no , I haven't recieved the preset stuff. Thanks in advance.........
E.

bobakabob
03-05-2007, 06:21 PM
Greg,

Classic Kirby artwork there, Greg. Love the Joe Sinnott inking style - those slick 'luminosity' flicks of his pen are legendary. That's yet another texturing challenge. :D

All these images look great. Keep meaning to post some hypervoxel files but almost permanently busy. :(

GregMalick
03-05-2007, 06:59 PM
I kinda hoped to use Dpont's new Spline Map Node with "dots" or "crust" to get an interesting negative "punch-out" effect.

THREAD (http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?p=506666#post506666)

Not getting what I want at all. Another dead-end... :foreheads

dglidden
03-16-2007, 07:51 PM
I just might have to take a shot at this. Kirby was an amazing comic book artist and the kriby dots are such a recognizable aspect of his art.

If you were to make a "Kirby" plugin, you'd definitely have to have both the "Kirby Dots" mode as well as the so-distinctive character shading, with the heavy shadow along the edges.

And for some reason, I can't see most of the images attached to these posts!!

GregMalick
03-17-2007, 10:38 AM
Another Fantastic shot.
And a spoiler for the FF4 movie series.
I can't imagine Stan Lee letting this 3 comic classic story being left behind.


Good luck on the Kirby Crackle. Let us know if you have some success....

Edbittner
03-20-2007, 08:22 AM
Greg,
I read an interview with the actor who plays Dr. Doom recently, and according to him, THAT storyline is explored in FF2 and, possibly FF3.
E.

GregMalick
03-20-2007, 09:13 AM
If the storyline follows the original, the Silver Surfer has to be exiled to Earth before DD steals his power. (that's Doc Doom - not DareDevil).

Of course, plot changes don't bother me at all. I simply enjoy seeing the comics of my youth brought to the big screen. All except for the Hulk.

Anyway - I wonder who will play Iron Man... Keanu Reeves?
Thor ... Brad Pitt?
Dr. Strange ... Hugh Laurie?

:ohmy:

Marvin Miller
03-20-2007, 03:16 PM
Fun thread to read!

I took my lunch break to make these with Hypervoxels.

44134

44135

44136

I think I need to reduce the luminosity at the begining of each particle and increase it towards the end.

Edbittner
03-20-2007, 09:06 PM
Greg,
Robert Downy Jr. is Tony Stark / Iron Man!
E.

GregMalick
03-20-2007, 11:09 PM
Marvin.

Those are really cool.
Very realistic.
But somehow I feel I'm looking at something microscopic.
Maybe because there's nothing to reference it to.
But I have a feeling it's the DOF.

Are you usung LW9.2?




Robert Downy Jr. as Iron Man!!! :foreheads
I hope he can pull it off and not be plain annoying....

Edbittner
03-21-2007, 06:53 AM
I think he's been through enough to portray the troubled Tony Stark. Check out Zodiac or Scanner Darkly. He's back! In a big way.
E.

Marvin Miller
03-21-2007, 11:19 AM
I am using v9.2!

When I get more time, I'll add some things to the background for scale.

The fun thing about Kirby Krackle is that it can be used for sub-atomic particles to the Cosmos itself and everything in-between. :D

GregMalick
03-21-2007, 09:34 PM
Aloha Marvin,

Throw up a screen capture of your Nodal setup, please.



Ed,

I gotta admit I haven't seen those movies.
Well if he's really back - then great!
I'll look for those vids at BlockBuster I guess.

Marvin Miller
03-21-2007, 10:54 PM
No nodes needed. ;)

It involved adjusting the luminosity values for the hypervoxels. I'll post more details tomorrow.

bobakabob
03-22-2007, 11:22 AM
Nice... you're getting there, these look fab.

Marvin Miller
03-22-2007, 02:22 PM
Here's a screen shot of how I set up the Luminosity channel for Hypervoxels.

44267

This technique seems to work best with Local Density on the top layer. Then it's just a matter of tweaking the values for the other channels.

Here's a comp I made of two different test results. (No actual NewTek staff were injured during filming.)

44268

GregMalick
03-22-2007, 02:57 PM
No actual NewTek staff were injured during filming.Not sure I actually believe that.... :hey:


I can't find Local Density as in input parameter for a HV Luminosity Gradient.
My dongle's at home (boy does that sound weird!) but this is what I see without it in OB17...




downloading OB18 right now.....

jeremyhardin
03-22-2007, 02:59 PM
Not sure I actually believe that.... :hey:


I can't find Local Density as in input parameter for a HV Luminosity Gradient.
My dongle's at home (boy does that sound weird!) but this is what I see without it in OB17...




downloading OB18 right now.....

Looks like your on surface hv mode instead of volume?

Marvin Miller
03-22-2007, 03:04 PM
Ah, yes, forgot to mention that. I'm using sprites at the moment. Local density is not available in the surface type.

GregMalick
03-22-2007, 03:34 PM
DOH!

:foreheads

GregMalick
03-22-2007, 04:00 PM
Oh man.... I really like this technique.
And varying the HyperTexture really varies the results.


Marvin!

Any more cool techniques you can share?

GregMalick
03-22-2007, 04:17 PM
5 minute limit....

Here's a Discovery Render. :D

GregMalick
03-22-2007, 04:35 PM
ahhh screen captures --- no checkerboard

closer up....

Edbittner
03-23-2007, 07:11 AM
Been playing with Greg and Marvin's settings. I REALLY think we are on to it!
E.

Edbittner
03-23-2007, 07:12 AM
With ANY background color........
E.

Edbittner
03-23-2007, 07:12 AM
Or.........
E.

jin choung
03-23-2007, 08:34 AM
alright, this inspired me to give it a shot. i'm using crust and noise... not perfect but i think if i spent a lot of time on it, i can get something that would work....

jin

GregMalick
03-23-2007, 11:13 AM
Good stuff.
I agree, this looks very promising.
Ed, could you share some insight into exactly how you did that?

Here's what I did (besides the HV Luminosity gradient by Marvin).
I used Denis Pontonnier's HV node Editor for HyperTextures.
I then used a Dots node (that's the pics that have a uniform circles).
Then for variation hooked up a particle info node.
There are a lot of possibilities for variation - I just happened to use that one.

Here's a pic:

Marvin Miller
03-23-2007, 11:33 AM
Looking good!

I didn't even think about using a third-party node, but then again I try to keep my work computer (where I write the docs) as close as I can to a shipping state.

GregMalick
03-23-2007, 11:54 AM
Emmitting from surface of a string of 2-pt polys.
gotta run now!

Marvin Miller
03-23-2007, 11:59 AM
Now you are giving me some ideas, I'll see what I can come up with over the weekend.

Edbittner
03-23-2007, 12:38 PM
WAY,WAY simple. Along with the gradient...... I think we've got it.
E.

Edbittner
03-23-2007, 12:45 PM
On a simple null.
E.

Edbittner
03-23-2007, 01:01 PM
Oh, I'm just lovin' this! Kinda like what's on the FF cover Greg posted.....
E

starbase1
03-23-2007, 01:29 PM
I hope someone is going to clean all this up into a tutorial with samples when done!
Please!

Nick

ftown
03-23-2007, 02:12 PM
I second that motion, that was a fun thread to read.

GregMalick
03-23-2007, 04:21 PM
WAY,WAY simple. Along with the gradient...... I think we've got it.
E.

Post #118

Love that composite render!

I'm calling it "Dr. Strange Hands"

where can I get that FI scaly procedural?

Marvin Miller
03-23-2007, 05:10 PM
I hope someone is going to clean all this up into a tutorial with samples when done!
Please!

Nick

I'm working on new tutorials now, I'll add this to the list. ;)

Edbittner
03-23-2007, 06:41 PM
Check Flay.com for plug-ins. Search for FI.
E.

GregMalick
03-23-2007, 10:11 PM
Check Flay.com for plug-ins. Search for FI.
E.

ouch! how many times will I be :foreheads slapping my forehead in this thread?





lol ;D

aurora
03-25-2007, 08:29 AM
I stand corrected, from my SQ post that is, these are with HV's! Now I'm even more excited because you can dictate where, how you want/need them! I need to find time to play too:bowdown:

dpont
03-25-2007, 03:47 PM
Can't resist to put my short and thumb viper here,
same luminosity gradient + nodevolum (Shape_Bomber a bit slow)
+ node texture in color channel:

44395

Denis.

aurora
03-25-2007, 05:05 PM
First let me say I'm going to be in trouble because I'm playing with this new setup instead of working on FG07 stuff. But its so dang addictive!
Greg use your node setup but feed the Particle info count into a Crust nodes Background color. Then use the color output from Crust to go into your Dots[1] Fg color Doing that you automatically get a ton of great smaller dots!
Plus try adding a local density gradient to the Opacity channel.
Adjusting the Crusts width adjusts the smaller dots size. Adjusting scale increase the number of new Dots.

bobakabob
03-26-2007, 05:14 PM
These are wonderful. Looking at the samples so far IMHO Ed, you have the Kirby power. Can we see any samples / settings? The others are also great and reminiscent of Ditko's fab Dr Strange.

dwburman
03-26-2007, 05:29 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aVwYq3kt7o
someone put some silver surfer episodes on youtube.

starbase1
03-27-2007, 01:10 AM
These are wonderful. The others are also great and reminiscent of Ditko's fab Dr Strange.

By the hoary hosts of Hoggoth! Could it be that this mystic masters perceptions are enlightened by the eye of Agamotto?!?!

(I always felt that Dr Strange was sadly underrated, in case you hadn't guessed!)

Nick

Edbittner
03-27-2007, 05:23 AM
bobakabob,
Thanks, I think so. Over on the last page I posted some settings. It's self animating, all you need do is adjust the turbulence effect speed for a slower BZZZT. You can also adjust the scale depending on the needs of the scene.
E.

jeremyhardin
05-02-2007, 12:21 AM
If you guys haven't seen it, the new Fantastic 4 trailer is up.
Rise of the Silver Surfer (http://www.apple.com/trailers/fox/fantasticfourriseofthesilversurfer/)

Bit OT I know, but somewhat relevant. :D

GregMalick
05-02-2007, 01:16 AM
If you guys haven't seen it, the new Fantastic 4 trailer is up.
Rise of the Silver Surfer (http://www.apple.com/trailers/fox/fantasticfourriseofthesilversurfer/)

Bit OT I know, but somewhat relevant. :D

WOW.

as Johnny Storm says "Oh, that is cool!"

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

McFilms
05-02-2007, 11:04 PM
FI scaly procedural <----------- Is there a version of this or a substitute that can work on a Mac?

McFilms
05-05-2007, 05:35 PM
Apparently not.

GregMalick
05-05-2007, 06:31 PM
I personally didn't respond since I'm a PC user. :hey:

McFilms
05-05-2007, 09:36 PM
No biggie! Thanks for the post though Greg!

I'm seriously considering getting at least one more workstation license and a PC for just this reason. There are TONZ of great things out there for PC (and Mac, but not nearly as much).

starbase1
05-06-2007, 02:46 AM
Massively better than I expected...
Nick

Edbittner
05-11-2007, 08:41 AM
Massively better than I expected...
Nick

Nick,
What ?
E.

starbase1
05-11-2007, 08:23 PM
Nick,
What ?
E.

Whoops, loss of context error...
I was referring to the FF trailer.

bobakabob
10-02-2007, 12:09 PM
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/211/519951480_9d2232f5ea.jpg

Anymore progress with Kirby Krackle? I posted this image above a while back with the intention of conveying something of the King's cosmic style. The Planet rings were taken from Starbase's excellent Saturn Model :thumbsup:
There are three starfields and the hypervoxel settings are totally maxed out in the size variation department.

Also there's a great homage to Kirby (http://www.lwg3d.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=14054&d=1191169174)on the LWG site by Deg, do check it out. It's a recent piece and got me thinking about this thread...

GregMalick
10-02-2007, 05:39 PM
How do you think Deg created that black sun tendral flame look?

deg
10-04-2007, 10:22 AM
Gregory,

(Answered you over on LWG, but thought I may as well share the info here for others as well.)

The flaming black suns were done is Photoshop, as was most of the backgdrop. I used over 100 layers to create the backdrop. The black sun(s) flame efx was created using the Alien Skin's Eye Candy 4000 Smoke filter, eight separate renders for each sun, as the filter only does one angle at a time.

If you are interested, there are board-stroke "stages" renders on my website.

deg

deg
10-04-2007, 10:36 AM
Also there's a great homage to Kirby (http://www.lwg3d.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=14054&d=1191169174)on the LWG site by Deg, do check it out. It's a recent piece and got me thinking about this thread...

Oh, and thanks for the shout-out there my friend. ;)

Lovin' yer androids with yer KK. ;)

deg

GregMalick
10-04-2007, 05:30 PM
Gregory,

(Answered you over on LWG, but thought I may as well share the info here for others as well.)

The flaming black suns were done is Photoshop, as was most of the backgdrop. I used over 100 layers to create the backdrop. The black sun(s) flame efx was created using the Alien Skin's Eye Candy 4000 Smoke filter, eight separate renders for each sun, as the filter only does one angle at a time.

If you are interested, there are board-stroke "stages" renders on my website.

deg

I'm thinking this could also be done with a blue HV fire.
Not sure that it would be as tendrally...(is that a word?) :D

deg
10-04-2007, 05:35 PM
Sure it could be, as anything is possible given enough time and effort. Lots of different ways of doin' stuff, just a matter of pickin' which one works best for ya at the time.

deg

aurora
10-08-2007, 11:04 AM
I was looking for some insight into a new app I'm writing and found a cool OpenGL procedural texturing demo showing great potential to create something similar to those suns. But do you think I can find that link again? I know I saved it but I'll be damned if I can find it. I do know it was somewhere in a trail of cellular aggregation sites I was looking at. Will post the link when/if I ever find it again.

GregMalick
10-08-2007, 01:21 PM
This (http://www.ozone3d.net/hyperion.php) looks interesting.
Was that it? :D

aurora
10-08-2007, 03:10 PM
First I can promise nope, but which item where you looking at on that page Greg?

GregMalick
10-08-2007, 09:45 PM
Hyperion.

I saw the mandlebrot at the bottom and thought that might have caught your eye. Nice idea to test out code. Sounds like it could be used to test out procedurals using a script language.

Here's (http://www.ozone3d.net/demos_projects/mandelbrot_set.php) a further link.

aurora
10-09-2007, 08:28 AM
Ahhhh, OK so now I see. But nope that deff was not it. It was something mixed in with cellular automota textures. They had a some sort of cool spherical translation for perlin noise that caused some awesome effects early in its evolution (noise evolution over time that is).


Nice idea to test out code. Sounds like it could be used to test out procedurals using a script language.
If you want a mega cool system to test out texture/shader code you HAVE to check this out.
http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/AIF_Toolkit
The AIF toolkit uses Adobe's new cg language code named Hydra and I really like the couple minutes I've played with it so far.

othornton
10-20-2007, 01:11 AM
Is FI's site down? I recently came across this thread and went to Flay to dig up the link for the Scaly shader and it took me to some site called livedoor.com(?). Anyone out there have a new link or can post the files?

-Oliver

arma3d
10-20-2007, 02:02 AM
OT: but related, has anyone seen the Minoriteam on cartoon network?

My eyes are glued to every detail, it looks like they channeled Kirby.

a.

arma3d
10-20-2007, 02:04 AM
OT: but related, has anyone seen the Minoriteam on cartoon network?

My eyes are glued to every detail, it looks like they channeled Kirby.

a.

GregMalick
10-20-2007, 10:52 AM
Is FI's site down? I recently came across this thread and went to Flay to dig up the link for the Scaly shader and it took me to some site called livedoor.com(?). Anyone out there have a new link or can post the files?

-Oliver

Here you go.
LINK (http://www2.ocn.ne.jp/~fis_junk/plugin-page.html)

othornton
10-20-2007, 01:12 PM
Awesome, much thanks Greg!

-Oliver

jwiede
10-25-2007, 02:02 PM
Here you go.
LINK (http://www2.ocn.ne.jp/~fis_junk/plugin-page.html)

I'm getting a 404 for all the actual download links for the plugin, though.

Is the download working for others?

JohnMarchant
10-25-2007, 07:25 PM
Yeah Same here all gone :(:(

Edbittner
10-26-2007, 09:44 AM
Well, if I'm not supposed to do this, I'm sure someone will let me know.....
E.

bobakabob
10-27-2007, 05:43 AM
Has anyone any new images to show?

GregMalick
10-27-2007, 05:51 AM
This link http://www2.ocn.ne.jp/~fis_junk/plug/win/FIsShaders-i-R4_1.zip seems to work.

At least for now....

aurora
10-27-2007, 08:41 AM
Sorry not from me. I'm still desperately hunting for that website with that funky OGL shader I mentioned earlier. It was so freakin cool and could really help out in this area. Dang where the heck was it?!?!?!?!?!

GregMalick
10-27-2007, 01:03 PM
Sorry not from me. I'm still desperately hunting for that website with that funky OGL shader I mentioned earlier. It was so freakin cool and could really help out in this area. Dang where the heck was it?!?!?!?!?!
Filter Forge? (http://www.filterforge.com/filters/)
Marvin Landis? (http://amber.rc.arizona.edu/darktree/cellular.html)
DarkTree? (http://www.darksim.com/html/dt25_description.html)
MapZone? (http://www.mapzoneeditor.com/index.php?PAGE=FEATURES)
ProFX? (http://www.profxengine.com/index.php?PAGE=GALLERY.SHADERS)
:D


We need more hints in order to help. Please, describe fully.

aurora
11-03-2007, 07:47 AM
Thanks Greg, but nope none of those. It was some obscure site dealing with cell automata. I also know I found it originally using that as my google search criteria. Sadly it was one of those where I looked at a site found on google, hit a link->hit a link->hit a link.....
The page I found the link to that texture had a square graphic of it set right aligned, about a third of the way down a long scrolling page, the graphic was animated as showed the texture as a sphere with spherical noise flowing off it, yellowish white. Clicking the image took me to a code breakdown page of the OGLSL shader. Also on the page where other extensions of cellular automata generated textures. Extremely cool site but staying hidden from me.

GregMalick
01-02-2010, 01:27 PM
I'm not going to let this thread die... ;D

deg
01-02-2010, 03:02 PM
NIce! :)

deg

aurora
01-03-2010, 09:18 AM
Best effect so far Greg! I think you finally have something worthwhile. If only there was a way to design exactly where the energy zones lie so you can wrap them at will around characters or other objects. I'm wondering if in the near future we got together and brainstormed this nice and hard again if we couldn't use this basic concept of yours and create a Kirby Crackle plugin for Core?

GregMalick
01-03-2010, 09:41 AM
Aloha Aurora,

I was thinking the same thing about placement.
Obviously a 2pp chain would give the best control or even a series of nulls that are parented or locked to a surface with sticky.

But I'm unaware of any node that will paint a open/closed curve on a material based upon positions of a series of points or Nulls.

Are you aware of anything like that?
I wonder if dPont has something that could be used...

aurora
01-03-2010, 10:22 AM
We, as usual, are on the same wavelength. No I don't currently know of any off hand. But I can envision the math to make it happen. Would not be the fastest of shaders but should be doable.

jwiede
01-03-2010, 01:29 PM
Hmm, it's vaguely similar to that Worley plugin (in Polk?) called Acid, where geo can write on other geo's textures, only have it lay down offset "negative space" areas such that the target winds up on the "bolt" part. I just saw a neat XPresso (C4D) thing to do something similar (geo writing on geo), from the "No Keyframes" anim.

I think the target math isn't so bad, what's messy is figuring out the "range" such that you have some control of where the branches off the main bolt wind up.

Greg's sample looked pretty spot on. Not quite sure how to translate it to a 3D volume, though.

In 3D I always kind of pictured it looking like a sort of Voronoi graph, with point density increasing towards the edge of the overall volume, and with the source located at a/the main internal V. edge junction (V. vertex, as it were) nearest the center? The crackle effect would just originate from the V. edges through the volume, and spread out onto the surfaces formed by the V. edges. Opacity/Luminosity/whatever dropping off fast as you move away from the center (perhaps cube-law).

Wish I had a fast implementation for 3D Voronoi (who doesn't, right?) to try it out, alas. Nice thing is that the texture could just use a modified dirt/AO shader to spread from the edges, at which pt we could use that crumple-crackle combo. Not sure if it'd still look too 2D if it only appeared on the internal V. surfaces, though.

Mr Rid
01-03-2010, 05:28 PM
Applying an erode to a fire image in Fusion and crushing levels is a quick-n-dirty thought-
80754

The trick is to get something that looks good animated while controllable to interact with a character or whatever.

jwiede
01-04-2010, 12:19 AM
As I understand it, the key aspects of the look stems from the negative space boundaries being formed by (typically dark) circular (spheroid in 3D) shapes, such that they cut a "lightning-like" crackle pattern into whatever is used as "foreground space" to represent the "bolt". As the circles/spheres are what makes it a "Kirby Crackle", they're essential.

Or am I misunderstanding the problem definition?

GregMalick
01-04-2010, 01:46 AM
As I understand it, the key aspects of the look stems from the negative space boundaries being formed by (typically dark) circular (spheroid in 3D) shapes, such that they cut a "lightning-like" crackle pattern into whatever is used as "foreground space" to represent the "bolt". As the circles/spheres are what makes it a "Kirby Crackle", they're essential.

Or am I misunderstanding the problem definition?

Absolutely correct.
Although you begin to see the same effect in Mr Rid's example.

I'm personally more interested in the 2D effect.
But placement/control is the issue so far.

Edbittner
01-04-2010, 09:58 AM
As the starter of this thread, I like what I'm seeing so far . However, I think , it's all in the animateabllity{sp} of the "krackle".It's what's most important. REALLY like what I'm seeing though.
E.

GregMalick
01-04-2010, 10:21 AM
As the starter of this thread, I like what I'm seeing so far . However, I think , it's all in the animateabllity{sp} of the "krackle".It's what's most important. REALLY like what I'm seeing though.
E.

Right on the button, Ed!

I tried doing a 2-second animation sequence last night and it looked like crap. The luminous lightning bolt looked fine - but the surrounding portion definitely revealed that this is based on a simple honeycomb structure. It's like in an animation, my eyes just ignored the negative detail and mostly saw the general structure.

I have to admit it was a pretty lazy attempt doing simple linear animated HPB rotation of the textures. I have some ideas about adding noise & stuttering to the animation that might help. If I get something that isn't embarrassing, I'll post it.

Oh and BTW, as was probably apparent, the second pic in post #167 shows the basis of the node network. The further additions were to the luminous channel and some tweaks to the position and thickness settings. And of course some simple color.

Rove
01-04-2010, 03:31 PM
Some brainstorming here:

Have you ever tried using the Radial node from Dpont's Renderman Collection?

I think if you combine that with something like ... crust and then add some more pizzazz you could come even closer. Hmm, marble with a radial and crust? The only thing you might need to figure out is the blending and scaling (for depth perception) of the dots from the inner part of the ray to the outer part.

I attached a sample I came up with in about 10 minutes or so. It still needs alot of work but it's meant to give you an idea of what I'm mumbling about :)