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View Full Version : Generi Rig now for LightWave!



bk-fx
02-26-2006, 03:36 AM
Hello, i have been building a setup in lightwave for the character "generi", the blue puppet very used in forums like 10 seconds club for animation excersises. Originally was a puppet for Maya. Now we've got him in LightWave too!!

Regards!!

Carlos Reding

P.S.- Original setup by Andrew Silke: http://andrewsilke.com/generi_rig/generi_rig.html

http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/196/generilw1li.th.jpg (http://img115.imageshack.us/my.php?image=generilw1li.jpg)

28115

Wickster
02-26-2006, 02:19 PM
SWEET!!!! You have come in my most desperate hours (I'm using this for class but I don't have maya at home and I don't plan on purchasing one). Is there any chance "Package Man" can be converted as well? Hehehe.

Thanks! You are a true saviour.

umstitch
02-26-2006, 06:16 PM
nice conversion

i like this rig:thumbsup:

riki
02-26-2006, 07:57 PM
aaah I still haven't masterred rigging. My rigs always get screwed up when reloading a scene.

riki
02-26-2006, 08:00 PM
A pix might help. This is what I get when loading the geniri scene.

riki
02-26-2006, 08:01 PM
Selecting all the bones and hitting the 'r' key fixes the models but the bones are messed up now.

toby
02-26-2006, 08:56 PM
Hey Riki

Have you tried opening the original file in BBedit and resaving it with Mac line breaks?

Resting the bones will always fix the model, because you're telling the bones to deform from their current position - it resets the deformation to 0. So it's not really a fix -

riki
02-26-2006, 09:11 PM
I can open the scene file in BBEdit. But regarding the Mac Line breaks, I'm not sure how to do that, is it just a matter of saving it out as a copy?

I also get this error when first opening the original scene.

riki
02-26-2006, 09:12 PM
If I hit okay I get this error.

phaedrus
02-26-2006, 10:15 PM
this is a great rig, cheerz!

toby
02-26-2006, 10:39 PM
When you do a 'save as' there's an options button in the requester. When you hit that you'll see a 'line breaks' drop-down list.

I've never seen that error before, but it looks like an lscript, maybe third-party? Try changing your fps?

toby
02-26-2006, 10:48 PM
Mmm well it loaded fine for me, fps was 25 ( which reminds me, fps always loads with the scene ). Could that lscript be messing things up?

riki
02-26-2006, 11:14 PM
wow it loads okay if I just change it to 25fps. Thanks for the help.

toby
02-27-2006, 12:55 AM
Oh, good! I guess I should say fps 'should' load with the scene ;D

Nice rig!

riki
02-27-2006, 01:00 AM
LOL yeah you'd think by logic that it would load with the scene.

toby
02-27-2006, 01:03 AM
That's what's funny, it did load the fps when I loaded this rig, unlike yours :confused: I never have mine set to 25fps. That's what made me think it was that lscript -

riki
02-27-2006, 01:17 AM
I just did a test with a blank scene. I saved a blank scene with the frame rate set at 25fps. I then cleared the scene and changed the frame rate of Layout to 30fps. Then when I tried to reload the blank scene, the same popup window displayed the "mismatched fps" message. Oddly enough, when I push "Cancel" the scene continues to load correctly with the correct frame rate "25fps". I also tried the generi.lws and when I pushed "cancel", it also loaded without a problem. So it must be that script, that was causing the problem. Also strange is that I'd expect "cancel" to actually cancel the scene from loading. But it must be cancelling the script which was stuffing things up. How odd :)

toby
02-27-2006, 01:34 AM
I'll bet your pref file is set to load that lscript. And since LW8, lscripts have been failing unless you tweak them, I did it once but I forget scripting-type stuff faster than I learn it - maybe do a search for it and nuke it.

Nice talking to you Riki, it's been a long time. Are you living in jp now?

Red_Oddity
02-27-2006, 02:55 AM
Nice rig, one little problem though, maybe i'm not using the rig right, but, when i pitch his spine, his eyes/pupils roll to the back of his head...really creepy, nice if you want to do a Romero animation, but otherwise, creepy.

mav3rick
02-27-2006, 03:06 AM
25 rocks :)

bk-fx
02-27-2006, 04:42 AM
Oh my god!!! too much replies! haha. Sorry for this late answer!! Thanks for your comments.
For those people having troubles with fps, the scene has a 25fps setup (as usual in Europe). So i think loading it as 25fps you should not have troubles. I have been reported for a trouble when rotating the spine and the eyes too, Im working on a "release" 1.1 to fix this :). I think could be a good idea talk about the 25fps option in the readme.txt too.

About a rig for Package Man, i'll think about it later, because the creation of custom setups in LightWave is a bit stressing because of the leak of right tools. Maybe the next rig, no doubt!

Regards, Carlos Reding.

bk-fx
02-27-2006, 05:21 AM
Hello again, the problem has been fixed. Here is the new file.

28187

I'd thank to the administrator/s to put the link of this file in the first post for an easier access, because my limit of 1440 minutes has expired.

Regards, Carlos Reding.

adrencg
02-27-2006, 12:16 PM
I love this rig!

I use Maestro, but I think this one is has better hip control....and it's simple, and less cluttered, which is a BIG plus.

One thing that is key though, at least in being able to modify the rig to my own character. The size of the rig is way out of scale as to what LWers usually use. An average character in Lightwave is 1.5 meters(normal human height). Generi is about 15 meters high, which makes it extremely difficult to get the rig into a human sized character.

Not to look a gift horse in the mouth, or anything...it would be a great fix if the Maya scale factor was more LW friendly.

Mike

bk-fx
02-27-2006, 12:34 PM
Hi andrencg! Thank you for the comments :) The why of that gigant generi is quite simple, the original one, in maya, has that size. I saw that, and I resized him BUT, I had had all the endomorphs so when i scaled it and used any endomorph... the result was a disaster. Then, I decided to mantain his original size (or remake 37 endomorphs, i used the easiest way :p ).

I really like the rig too, I have built it following my preferences. It has even a "little" secret for a better deform, but it's hidden =) (If you unhide the skeleton, you'll see the "Jambhala's Microbone System" ;) ) Those programs/plugins that creates a standar rig are okay, but not all of them give me the control for many details so i prefer to create a custom setup, while i can.

Cheers!

adrencg
02-27-2006, 12:39 PM
Hi andrencg! Thank you for the comments :) The why of that gigant generi is quite simple, the original one, in maya, has that size. I saw that, and I resized him BUT, I had had all the endomorphs so when i scaled it and used any endomorph... the result was a disaster. Then, I decided to mantain his original size (or remake 37 endomorphs, i used the easiest way :p ).

I really like the rig too, I have built it following my preferences. It has even a "little" secret for a better deform, but it's hidden =) (If you unhide the skeleton, you'll see the "Jambhala's Microbone System" ;) ) Those programs/plugins that creates a standar rig are okay, but not all of them give me the control for many details so i prefer to create a custom setup, while i can.

Cheers!

Can you make a small version without the character?

I guess I could just re-bone my character, using your setup as a guide to follow. Thanks

Mike

bk-fx
02-27-2006, 01:16 PM
Sure! I'll try to upload it tomorrow!

ftown
02-27-2006, 02:20 PM
great rig, if there was a scaled down version that would be appreciated.
I also like the way it doesn't bog down the IK that much.

st45
02-27-2006, 02:26 PM
For some reason, I cannot move the hips up and down and without everything else moving with them. More specifically, I find no handle that performs this funcion. Am I missing something?

kfiram
02-27-2006, 04:46 PM
Then, I decided to mantain his original size (or remake 37 endomorphs, i used the easiest way :p ).



Just use the "Scale Morph" tool - it's under Modify >> Transform >> More.
Click on "Transform All Morphs", insert the scale factors you used for the base object and voila - all 37 morphs are corrected for you!

bk-fx
02-28-2006, 05:15 AM
Hello, here it is! a scene only with the skeletons :)

28244

kfiram, WOW, i didn't know that tool! I'll try to use it the next time, for sure :D

st45, no, you're not missing something :) The hips control, in this rig, is only a way to have the hips rotation independent of the spine, if you move the hips up and down indepently of the spine, spine controls will be re-located to a wrong place and you'll get a wrong result. If the rig had stretchy hips, you could move the hips indepently of the spine. But i didn't stretchy hips setup :)


Regards, Carlos Reding.

Piolla
02-28-2006, 07:31 AM
WOW! Thanks a lot, man! I don't get tired of saying how much I like this community!

Cheers!

adrencg
02-28-2006, 08:08 AM
Hello, here it is! a scene only with the skeletons :)

28244

kfiram, WOW, i didn't know that tool! I'll try to use it the next time, for sure :D

st45, no, you're not missing something :) The hips control, in this rig, is only a way to have the hips rotation independent of the spine, if you move the hips up and down indepently of the spine, spine controls will be re-located to a wrong place and you'll get a wrong result. If the rig had stretchy hips, you could move the hips indepently of the spine. But i didn't stretchy hips setup :)


Regards, Carlos Reding.

Thanks man. You should charge money for this rig...

What happened to the scale though? He's gigantic at about 16 meters. Is that an issue with Maya vs LW scale? Almost impossible to use unless I make my character 15 meters...do you know of a way to to fit the rig to a normal sized character without screwing everything up? Thanks again.

Mike

bk-fx
02-28-2006, 08:26 AM
Hi! Sorry, I forgot to re-scale it. But re-scaling the master control to 0.1 of the original size, the whole skeleton and controls should be rescaled as well :)


Cheers!

adrencg
02-28-2006, 09:17 AM
Hi! Sorry, I forgot to re-scale it. But re-scaling the master control to 0.1 of the original size, the whole skeleton and controls should be rescaled as well :)


Cheers!

Not that easy really....

When scaling the master control, the bones are resized as well, thus making my character smaller with them.

I think it's a bone rest issue. If the skeleton is 15 times bigger than the polygon model, re-sizing the skeleton will essentially resize the model as well. Bone size changes polygon size. The model can't really be "re-rested" with the skeleton. Someone else please chime in if you know something I dont about this.

The skeleton has to have been created at the same scale as the model, which in this case I think it was Maya -- which probably has a huge scale difference. There's probably no solution for this.

Let me ask this....was the skeleton created in LW using the Maya rig as a guide? -- or was it exported from Maya to LW using some kind of translator?

If we can't figure this out, I'll just setup my own version of the rig at the right scale, using your awesome rig as an example -- reverse engineering. Thanks for your generosity.

Mike

bk-fx
02-28-2006, 09:57 AM
Let me ask this....was the skeleton created in LW using the Maya rig as a guide? -- or was it exported from Maya to LW using some kind of translator?

I built the whole setup in LightWave, trying to mantain the simplicity of Maya's (I really love it). I exported the model and blendshapes using the maya's obj export plug-in, then, used "background to morph" and "finally" created the skelegons and controllers. I worked all the time with the exported model, 15m tall.

Now I know about the existence of the scale morph tool, I might try to modify the whole setup and make it smaller, ~1.5m tall. Might be this weekend :)

Both setups are quite similar, almost equal. I did this because I love the setup for Maya, but I use LightWave. So I wanted to have, as far as possible, the same controllers to work in the same conditions in animations excersises.

Regards, Carlos Reding.

adrencg
02-28-2006, 10:14 AM
I built the whole setup in LightWave, trying to mantain the simplicity of Maya's (I really love it). I exported the model and blendshapes using the maya's obj export plug-in, then, used "background to morph" and "finally" created the skelegons and controllers. I worked all the time with the exported model, 15m tall.

Now I know about the existence of the scale morph tool, I might try to modify the whole setup and make it smaller, ~1.5m tall. Might be this weekend :)

Both setups are quite similar, almost equal. I did this because I love the setup for Maya, but I use LightWave. So I wanted to have, as far as possible, the same controllers to work in the same conditions in animations excersises.

Regards, Carlos Reding.

On a side note, I believe the IK will be even more stable if the rig is scaled down. The further away from 0,0 you get in LW, the shakier the ik becomes.

Mike

umstitch
02-28-2006, 01:20 PM
yeh love this setup

i have a question :help:

what exactly do you have the point affector on the foot control for?

is it there just to make sure only pitch keys get recorded?

or is it doing something else with the orientation of the foot control?

great setup tho

bk-fx
02-28-2006, 01:45 PM
Hello umstitch, that's a really good question. It's absolutely useless ;D It should be some residual stuff, I have modify several times few controllers before to publish so I may forgot to remove it. You can remove it safely if you want :)

Thanks for reporting!

umstitch
02-28-2006, 02:16 PM
redundant yeh

thought so:agree:

i guess ill find a good use for it if i try tho

you should go for generi rig v2 Ultimate Edition

my suggestion would be:

-expressions (or some better mechanical method) on the knee bones to have them follow the leg a bit

-and a simple implementation of a stretchy hip (like you previously mentioned)

that would finish off a great setup for a pretty flexible rig:thumbsup:

thanks for sharing

bk-fx
03-01-2006, 05:22 AM
-expressions (or some better mechanical method) on the knee bones to have them follow the leg a bit

Im working on it, for knee and elbow bones, not hard to fix.



-and a simple implementation of a stretchy hip (like you previously mentioned)


Let's add it to the "TODO" list :)

adrencg
03-01-2006, 08:09 AM
I've started on my own version of the rig at the average human scale, and also made a few of my own mods.

I've added a "kneecap" bone between the thigh and calf. This bone is part of the leg IK chain and helps keep volume in the knee during extreme bends. It also has a higher stiffness setting, which keeps the legs from popping backwards when the character bends over at the waist.

I've taken out some of the nulls(fingers mostly). I don't know about object management in Maya, but it sucks in Lightwave. Finding an object in the list is a pain, so I try to keep the number of nulls to a minimum. Less clutter. I realize the nulls are there so bones don't need to be touched, but selecting bones to rotate fingers doesn't bother me. I use motion mixer for hands anyways..I'll probably add some motion mixer hand poses to my version of the rig.

I've also added a little to the foot control as well. Now the toes should stay locked when rotating at the ball of the foot.

I've kept the great stuff, like the arm and hip joints and hand controls. This'll be more of an offshoot of the Generi rig, not really a copy. I'll try to finish it and post sometime in the next few days.

Mike

bk-fx
03-04-2006, 03:42 AM
Okay, here is the v1.2 of the setup. Elbow and knee deformation and orientation fixes:

28451

For the stretchy hips, I would have to rebuild and reconfigure ~50% of the setup, because the actual bone/controls configuration doesn't seem to work as well as I want. Looks weird. And I have sereval things to do these weeks, so probably Im parking the setup by now.

Cheers!

umstitch
03-04-2006, 06:38 AM
thanks bk!

gonna give it a test drive this weekend:thumbsup:

bk-fx
03-04-2006, 08:33 AM
Excuse me!! Eyes orientation has been "unfixed" in v1.2, please, use this lws instead of.

28460

Sorry! Now it's 100% operative.

umstitch
03-05-2006, 01:13 PM
thanks dude!

by the way the for the eyes to work correctly, you need to activate the "after ik" switch for follower.

bet you forgot that bit cause you is workin like a hoss, and dont have time :hey:

bk-fx
03-05-2006, 02:04 PM
hey umstitch! If you do that, and animate the spine, the ayes won't work, just try the last scene i have post, the eyes are using IK instead of follower (IK never fails!)


Cheers!

umstitch
03-06-2006, 06:18 AM
sure i understand that bk, but as you are with v1.2a, you cant control the eyes with the eyes controller setup the way you have it, unless you activate the switch?...no?

gonna take a closer look later see if i cant figure this one out so you get the best of both worlds, i mean i like the way it is , but i also like the way you had it!:lol:

alvin_cgi
03-06-2006, 03:43 PM
Thanks mate, really appreciated!:thumbsup:
Now I have a very stupid question to ask(because I am very new to LW rig or bad in rigging always)...hmmm... how do I use this rig for my character? Do I just replace with new model but keep the bone in Modeler, saved and reload in Layout? Thanks everyone.:)

umstitch
03-06-2006, 08:01 PM
well its all gravy bk-fx, i just re parented the eyes controller to the eyes main object, and now everything works as expected!!!:thumbsup:


....>>as for a simple method of rig creation, using the generi rig, you could always add the skelegons from the original generi model into your own model, send it into vertex paint to get some wmaps on all your bones, then swap out the generi model in bk-fx`s scene file and use the update bones plug from dodgy(check flay.com) to reset the size and position of the rig!
(not entirely sure if that quite works tho--gonna check it meself)

--bear in mind tho that bk built this rig from a rig design originally used in a Maya setup--the point here really is to explore the setup,play with it and incorporate what you learn into your own setups----otherwise maybe check out motionbuilder? :phone_cal

prospector
12-02-2006, 06:30 AM
None of attachments now work..any chance of reupdating this thread?

kfinla
12-02-2006, 08:25 AM
yep, i tried all of the attachments also.. all just give me an invalid link, contact your admin..

Extent
12-02-2006, 03:25 PM
This is really something. I just picked up Maya to start getting into it about a week ago (trying out the LW->Maya->LW pipeline), I checked out Generi and the first thing I thought was "Hey, I could totally build this in LW". And now here it is! I haven't tried it since the links are down, but very cool none the less. I do really like the selection script in the most recent Generi, it would be nice to implement that as well, maybe with proxy pick?? I'ld be all over it myself but I won't have much time for experimenting until I finish my current project :D

tonyrizo2003
12-03-2006, 09:58 AM
call me lazy!! (LAZY)

thanks for doing something wonderful, it's awesome to have a group of people dedicated to sharing the knowledge!!

Can't wait to try this rig out!!

bk-fx
08-21-2008, 02:11 PM
None of attachments now work..any chance of reupdating this thread?

Hello partners!! im very sorry for that mistake. I uploaded sometime ago the file to megaupload. Here you got the link (it works, i cheked it out):

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=B7DT12KN

Sorry again. And don't forget to make it move, he likes to move it move it ;)

bk-fx
08-21-2008, 02:40 PM
I hope to update the rig in few weeks (exams :() to remove the "patch" of elbow/knees/shoulders and use the brand new features of lightwave 9.5, which works, as far as i checked, really really good. My contratulations to the whole team of developers!


developers! developers! developers! developers!


:D