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Captain Zinc
02-16-2003, 03:14 PM
The newtech website just wants to fob us off to resellers.

So as a professional, I may want to buy direct, not from
some jive-resseller who may end up marking up my purchase
40 or more percent for absolutely NOTHING.

I have been doing much of my own research into the toaster and
with to be treated like a professional by nu-tech.

In most cases, re-sellers do virtually NOTHING or want
to sell it integrated into their system at a hefty mark-up.

Why is the wholesale cost of toaster? What is the average
retail cost?

Thanks.

UnCommonGrafx
02-16-2003, 04:14 PM
Only because I can:

Captain Zinc,
First of all, please look at the above company name: it's NewTek.
Secondly, that's not very professional.
Thirdly. ;) You've got to be kidding, right? :0
Lastly, look on the net and find your best deal. Order. Or, become a reseller; you'll then be even more privy to luxurious answers to such questions. :rolleyes:
A dealer will take care of you, no matter how cheap a bastard you are; I know. ;) So, do yourself a favor and give the world economy a go and get that Vt[2]! The numbers go up often and 3 is not far off knowing these guys.

It's a good time to invest in your local community. Start with your VideoToaster reseller.

Captain Zinc
02-16-2003, 04:51 PM
Thanks for replying,

Are you a dealer rep? Do youget a cut?

I just want to know the bottom line cost.

It has nothing to do with being "cheap".

I have no interest in giving away money for nothing.

Now I am willing to hear any dealer's "pitch", but in the
end, when researching other software, they are just
marking up something and providing very little. Exept
the privilege topay them even more for additional services.

By the way, I am interested in version 3. I get the impression
there will be some feature that will allow us to adjust the
speed with a curve on the fly.

Questions about such new feature, naturally, will need to come
from Newtech, not some middle man. If I am going to be working
with these tools and indirectly promoting them through my work,
then I don't think it unreasonable to have a direct relationship
with the manufaturer.

eheupel
02-16-2003, 05:45 PM
Robert is not a reseller or dealer, and he is not an official rep. However like many others you will find in this forum, he does promote the Toaster actively.

Get a Toaster, you won't be sorry. It is an extremely capable tool, especially for the money. Got Lightwave? Then you can take advantage of a Newtek special price on the T2 through any dealer. Or subscribe to Newtekniques and get a $50 coupon useable towards any Newtek product at a Newtek dealer. (Besides getting a kick___ magazine for Lightwave/Aura/Toaster)

Regarding Dealers contributing to the value of your purchase.... there are a number of excellent dealers who add much more than their markup value to every system and board they sell in support before and after the sale. I'm sure any number of users will attest to this if you ask nicely. As far as having a direct relationship with the manufacturer... buy from any dealer and you've got a built in direct relationship with Newtek as well as a relationship with your dealer. 2 avenues for support as well as the community support you will find on Newtek, dealer and independently provided forums.

No I'm not a rep, no I dont get paid anything by NEWTEK. (N-E-W-T-E-K ok?)

UnCommonGrafx
02-16-2003, 05:55 PM
Dawgoneit Eric,
You made the point I should have: a fun an' lovin' group... ready to bite NewTek's head off if we don't get MORE!!!

NewTek

:cool: Testing the new features from NewTek . :p

Paul Lara
02-16-2003, 06:20 PM
I don't think it unreasonable to have a direct relationship with the manufacturer

...and every NewTek customer is granted that with a purchase, regardless of the source of the purchase. I think you will quickly find NewTek to be responsive to customers on a 1-on-1 basis.

Video Toaster is unlike LightWave, since there are a lot of hardware variables that can impact performance, and we therefore rely on resellers developing a relationship with the customer to find out what is needed, and therefore what hardware should be used.

No one is preventing you from purchasing just the card and software from a reseller; they won't force you into a turnkey system if you don't want one.

However, the online discussions are populated by a varying crowd, with two distinct types of Toaster users: the frustrated DIY-types who have repeated problems, and the happy turnkey customers who purchase a revenue-generating device from an authorized reseller that's been built, burned-in and tested before they ever lay hands on it, meaning they most likely get to work the same day they recieve their Toaster.

Regardless of which route you take, NewTek will be here to help you, support you, and guide you.

Paul Lara
NewTek
Toaster Boaster

SBowie
02-16-2003, 07:30 PM
Originally posted by Captain Zinc


So as a professional, I may want to buy direct, not from
some jive-resseller who may end up marking up my purchase
40 or more percent for absolutely NOTHING.

SNIP....

Now I am willing to hear any dealer's "pitch", but in the
end, when researching other software, they are just
marking up something and providing very little. Exept
the privilege topay them even more for additional services.



No, Robert doesn't work for NewTek, nor is he a dealer. I, on the other hand, AM a dealer -- just like quite a number of other dealers that frequent this and other forums. You clearly have a low opinion of us as a group, and I find your tone offensive enough that I'm going to bother to reply. Don't worry - this is not a "pitch." I really don't want your business, trust me on this.

First, if any NewTek dealer is making 40% or anything even remotely like that, it is a huge surprise to us (dealers).

Second, most of us work long and hard to provide customer service that goes the extra mile. This starts by gaining years of product knowledge at our own expense, and continues with bought and paid for NewTek training. Good dealers (and there are many) do extensive testing and research to gain intimacy with the product line. They do this to assure our customers get a system that works correctly the first time, and is properly configured to do so 'right out of the box,' and that it does so without simply throwing money at it.

Most of us do extensive demos before a sale, answering countless questions and providing solutions to user requirements so that they know exactly what they need and how it will serve them. We help them to understand the reasons behind intricate design decisions, and to make balanced decisions reflecting their needs and budget.

(BTW, many times the person who has benefited from our answers to all these questions figures that he now knows everything, so off he goes to buy a Toaster from some discount place and build it himself, perhaps saving himself a hundred bucks in the short run. This would probably be annoying were it not for the fact that we money-grubbing leech dealers really want to build long-lasting relationships with our clients, and since we're going to be friends and collaborators with them for many years, it's actually a good thing if any who happen to be unnapreciative jerks weed themselves out right at the start.)

Handing the unit over is only the beginning. Most of us provide significant hours of training with it, and continued extensive support in the days to come. If problems crop up, we're there then too. Many of us could supply client testimonials about the times we went out evenings, weekends and holidays at no charge to help clients resolve some production problem. I have personally helped a significant number of Toaster users resolve issues that were the direct result of poor decisions they made in the first place -- whether because they didn't have clue #1 when they built their own system, or they bought their unit from a dealer that may have given a 'bargain' price but lacked intimate product knowledge. I know I'm not the only one here who has bailed people out time and again who bought their systems elsewhere.

As well, many of us provide lengthy and detailed technical help to people we have never met and will never do business with through forums such as this one, as well as by phone and e-mail. Then again, when 'stuff happens' as it does with any product from time to time, we're there to help with spares, diagnostics, loaners and often to represent the user to NewTek, handling shipping, customs, etc.

Yeah, I'm an authorized NewTek "jive-reseller" -- and damn proud of it.

dreamvisionmp
02-16-2003, 07:33 PM
;)
Captain Zinc:

You will find buying a Toaster card or Turnkey System very different from buying a regular piece of consumer or prosumer gear like a camera. Most Toaster's are not sold by rip-off artists in big city gray-market electronics shops. Often, they are sold by people who are actually video professionals themselves. They love the Toaster so much they want to help get other people started in the business and take a piece of the action away from the people who over charge to pay for their bloated AVID systems.

My dealer did not sell me a complete system. I thought I could do it myself and save money. After 2-3 months of fooling around with it I took it down to Bloomington, Indiana and they got it going for me at a price I was happy to pay. They could have just said ""Hey, it's your problem," but they didn't. Any time I need advice I can just pick up the phone and get a live person directly. Needless to say, they have my complete loyalty. Would paying them a few hundred bucks more for a complete system be worth it? You bet. But if you want to buy a Toaster card, SX8, or software at a price as good as anyone, they can do it. From what I can tell there are dealers like these all over the country. Just ask around. Then go visit them. It's nothing like going CircuitBuysUSA and having a teenager hustle you.

For the record, our Toaster2 system will net what our two man shop has in it this month alone.
Blessings,

bbeanan
02-16-2003, 10:02 PM
There is an old saying:

"Penny wise, Pound Foolish"

The set-up of a Toaster system itn't as simple plugging in a few cards and hitting the power button. For me my Toaster was the first computer I didn't build myself. Not that I most likly couldn't have done it, but why waste a good week (or month(s)) tweaking the set-up, when a good dealer already knows all of the tricks.
Not to mention having a person who knows your system and knows the Toaster that you can call when you have problems (and you will have some user error problems).
My dealer Video Hardware has been great and built a great system and from my research for maybe only 5% or less, more than if I built it myself.
Heck, 24 hours after I recieved my system I shipped it out to do a live switch 4 camera event with President Bush... talk about faith in a new system (granted I did have a back-up switcher in line just in case).


The only bad thing is if I were a dealer I wouldn't want your business after your post...

ldituri
02-16-2003, 11:36 PM
Thank you Steve...

UnCommonGrafx
02-17-2003, 12:58 AM
Hay Dave,
hehe, where are you in Indy?! Me, too!

Get in touch.

ted
02-17-2003, 02:05 AM
The KEY with any computerized system is get only recommended and proven components, and I can't stress this enough, spend the little extra money to have a dealer who's build dozens of Toaster systems build yours.

Just last week I had a drive go down. One of my dealers Lisa @ istudiostv.com said, "send me the drive and I'll take care of it". This was on a system they built nearly a year ago.
No hassle on my part whatsoever.

I tend to think most Toaster problems now are people saving a few dollars by using new or untested components, or systems which were not built by people who've learned what works and what doesn't.

I can't tell you how many "Computer Experts", (some Microsoft level 5 certified), that screwed up my systems in the past.
I locked the door on one guy and told him to at least get me back where I was before he came. He finally left about 2am, but never fixed what he said he could do!

Edit systems are another beast. Like Dan said, saving a few bucks is NOT worth the headaches or down time.

I can make more than the dealer charges for configuring the Toaster system in just one day!!!
Not to mention how many customers I might lose with a malfunctioning system.
Not to mention my time and health!

Spend the money, live long, and be happy.
:)
I want to have you join us and give us new tips, not visit us trying to figure out why your system isn't working.;)

SBowie
02-17-2003, 06:46 AM
Originally posted by ldituri
Thank you Steve...

Why, what a nice thing to say. Thank YOU :)

SBowie
02-17-2003, 07:03 AM
Originally posted by ted


I can't tell you how many "Computer Experts", (some Microsoft level 5 certified), that screwed up my systems in the past.


I've got nothing against "experts", though I too have noticed that the majority of problems we see come from people who felt they 'could go it alone.' Still, we all learned where the gotchas and bottlenecks are mostly by experimenting. And since naivete is the special province of youth, we can all sympathize.

What does irritate the heck out of me is arrogance. I confess it irks me mightily when someone's first words when they pop up out of nowhere presumptuously insult a group of hard-working people they know nothing whatseover about.

I'm at a point in my life that I can do what I do because I love doing it, and do it with and for people I like. I do not expect to get rich at it (and so far have succeeded in not doing so), and I am not greedy. I am certainly not gouging anyone; my wife is forever chewing me out for doing stuff for free. And I know I am far from the only dealer that follows a similar course. For these reasons and many more I am disinclined to stand still while we are being verbally abused. My aplogies to all the rest of you.

Captain Zinc
02-17-2003, 07:08 AM
Thank you all for your comments.

Maybe my comments were a bit harsh and partly based on bad experiences
with "other" software manufactureres and dealers.

For example, in order to purchase autodesk products, one is also required to
go through a dealer even if it is a software purchase with no special hardware
considerations.

After the internet meldown, it also appeared that a number of dealers in the area of higher end hardware just disappeared. Poof! So if I would have purchased a year or two ago the chances were pretty high that the dealer
may have dissapeared and I would have been stuck with an expensive peice of equipment with no support.

Not happily, I seem to be getting the impression that Newtech and toaster people might be a somewhat different breed. More like real people than some of the others I have run across.

I would be delighted, for example, to find alternatives to AVID. Even if I might need to be more proficient with their products to do industry work.

JReble
02-17-2003, 07:08 AM
I have only one question....Is this person for real?

For one, the name is highly questionable and the comments are laughable.

If he is for real, I have sorely underestimated the challenge Newtek has created for themselves by offering a professional video production device at a price which makes it attainable to any reasonable or unreasonable person. It's already been made apparent that there are an awful lot of hardheaded people out there who bought the Toaster card to put in some clunker computer that they didn't want to upgrade. The one's that knew what they were doin also knew better than get bent out of shape about performance in such a situation. The others though, are difficult to listen to when they come here complainin about how bad Newtek is when their Toaster doesn't work right in their 486 Compaq or somethin' despite clear minimum system requirements posted by the manufacturer.

If Capt. Moonlight or whatever doesn't have a grasp yet that dealers can often sell components for less that the flat retail price that the manufacturer offers, then I tremble at the thought of how his DIY system is going to come together. If this guy is genuine and he insists on avoiding a dealer, (in which case he will end up paying more money actually) then I wish him and NeughTequi the best of luck cuz their both going to need it. God help us all.

Captain Zinc
02-17-2003, 07:11 AM
I mean't not unhappily....

I gotta type a little slower. Or change my user name!

SBowie
02-17-2003, 07:31 AM
Originally posted by Captain Zinc

Not happily, I seem to be getting the impression that Newtech and toaster people might be a somewhat different breed. More like real people than some of the others I have run across.


.... "somewhat different?" Yeah, that's a remark I can embrace. You're right, this is not your average community. Welcome to the Rebel Alliance. May your visit be joyous :)

p.s. - It's "NewTek" ... n-e-w-t-e-k. :p

UnCommonGrafx
02-17-2003, 07:36 AM
NewTek

Paul Lara
02-17-2003, 08:27 AM
Originally posted by ted
I can make more than the dealer charges for configuring the Toaster system in just one day!


now THERE is some indisputable logic, Ted, since Video Toaster is, after all, a revenue-generating device.


Jreble also added ...dealers can often sell components for less that the flat retail price that the manufacturer offers

Which is another point of truth in this discussion: NewTek has a dedicated team of authorized resellers, and NewTek will not undersell them. If you purchase something from NewTek, you will pay full MSRP, whereas our resellers have a (tiny) bit of wiggle-room to go below retail price.


Zinc speculated: ...the chances were pretty high that the dealer may have dissappeared and I would have been stuck with an expensive peice of equipment with no support.

Not if it's NewTek equipment, you wouldn't.

NewTek stopped making & shipping Amiga Video Toasters about 6 years ago, and to this day, offers tech support and even repair on them.

My recommendation?
Purchase a turnkey system from an Authorized NewTek reseller. Look at it this way: The difference in price between building your own and getting one tested and guaranteed is FAR less than the price mandated you pay for a year of AVID tech support. :p

Jim Capillo
02-17-2003, 09:29 AM
Originally posted by JReble
I have only one question....Is this person for real?

For one, the name is highly questionable and the comments are laughable.

If Capt. Moonlight or whatever doesn't have a grasp yet that dealers can often sell components for less that the flat retail price that the manufacturer offers, then I tremble at the thought of how his DIY system is going to come together. If this guy is genuine and he insists on avoiding a dealer, (in which case he will end up paying more money actually) then I wish him and NeughTequi the best of luck cuz their both going to need it. God help us all.


Hey Jeff - sounds like one of those Globelstreems guys has a new marketing "scheme", huh ?????

LOL! :p :rolleyes: :D

JReble
02-17-2003, 11:09 AM

JReble
02-17-2003, 11:12 AM
http://www.beenzeria.com/killtard.gif

I dunno yet if that's the case this time, but if it were, it wouldn't be the first time. Although, it's probably about time those guys pointed out the gross inefficiencies of any company that actually retains a dealer network. :D

ted
02-17-2003, 11:29 AM
So the moral of the story is...
Pay a dealer and save your blood pressure and clients.
Dealers don't make enough money.:eek:
NewTek is spelled NewTek, don't forget it.
This community is great, unless you piss us off.;)

Jay, somebody ought to help that turtle.

SBowie
02-17-2003, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by JReble
[img]
Although, it's probably about time those guys pointed out the gross inefficiencies of any company that actually retains a dealer network. :D

I don't even want to know what that statement might mean. My blood pressure is just returning to normal as it is :p

JReble
02-17-2003, 11:38 AM
A lot of us tried to help that stupid turtle, but he just wouldn't take good advice. Then he raised his rates....now look at him. http://mps.esmartweb.com/Smilieys/laugh.gif

Looks like this alien's gonna kick his butt!

Captain Zinc
02-17-2003, 12:15 PM
Rates? That opens up another interesting question.

Perhaps one for another thread.

After I buy or lease a spiffy system (from a reputible dealer, of course) how to go about getting real paying work.

From my experience in the (gulp) autodesk cad world, the whole scene is twisted.

While one doesn't need the most up-to-date system to do cad work anymore, the software remains insanely high.

All the while working in a field that pays highly skilled cad operators squat. Truly amazing.

What is at least interesting about the video world is that there are opportunities to align with a union that can keep rates fair, but that's another story.

The toaster does look like a great tool! I"m just still so surprised that everyone (well most of them) still only talk about avid and final cut pro.

Original1
02-17-2003, 06:56 PM
I've worked in Broadcast Studios and Multimedia for more than 8 years. I started doing Video Capture and Mpeg Compression when it was a Real Black art and an AVID cost you £40000 and still screwed stuff up.;)

Dealers have disaapeared because of thin margins, so most of the Toaster dealers are also Post houses and/or do something profitable rather than sell Toasters.

The Exact Set up of your Toaster Box depends on your Application, the use you want to put it to.

The Box round the Board can easily cost you 3 times the Toaster.

So decide on your application, build your system appropriately, and once its set up, don't mess with it, don't try installing some two bit program from @**! which demands its own drivers and screws up Directsound and your video codecs etc in the process.

Go to plenty of demos and find a supplier you can build a relationship with, a good one will save you something more valuable than money, they will save you time.

One of the really valuable things about the Lightwave / toaster community is the helpful attitude of most of the dudes out there,
they are all enthusiasts and will often help above and beyond the call of duty.

I can still call up Andy Bishop the guy I bought my first copy of Lightwave from, even though he no longer works for AMG FX, and is now busy running his own animation company. They will still answer to odd dumb question from me, of course I respect the value of his and his employees time. So I don't abuse that relationship.

In my exprience when you buy from Newtek, from a dealer or direct you get the whole rest of you (sometimes thats tough you get me:D other times its good you get Steve Bowie, Chuck Baker or Paul Lara)

Original1
02-17-2003, 07:01 PM
Just as a Follow up The Toaster is one Of the most versatile tools I have ever used. Is not without its faults and Newtek are working hard based on feedback to make it even better.

In some Areas it leaves AVId and FCP eating dust, I am hoping that Toaster 3 The next version of the software does every thing the user base has been asking for 'cause then it will absolutely ROCK THE FREAKING HOUSE!!!!:D

Original1
02-17-2003, 07:05 PM
last line should have read:-

In my exprience when you buy from Newtek, from a dealer or direct you get the whole rest of us.

Its late here

kleima
02-17-2003, 10:12 PM
You've come to the right place!!

kleima
02-17-2003, 10:45 PM
Oops, I'm still getting used to the new forum. I didn't see that there was two more pages of comments! My previous comment was supposed to be after Captain Zinc's comment:


"Thank you all for your comments.

Maybe my comments were a bit harsh and partly based on bad experiences
with "other" software manufactureres and dealers.

For example, in order to purchase autodesk products, one is also required to
go through a dealer even if it is a software purchase with no special hardware
considerations.

After the internet meldown, it also appeared that a number of dealers in the area of higher end hardware just disappeared. Poof! So if I would have purchased a year or two ago the chances were pretty high that the dealer
may have dissapeared and I would have been stuck with an expensive peice of equipment with no support.

Not happily, I seem to be getting the impression that Newtech and toaster people might be a somewhat different breed. More like real people than some of the others I have run across.

I would be delighted, for example, to find alternatives to AVID. Even if I might need to be more proficient with their products to do industry work."

bobby
02-17-2003, 10:47 PM
I agree that the best thing to do is to buy a system from a NewTek dealer.

I did not follow my own advice and configured my own VT2 system. And it, of course, has given me nothing but complete joy and bliss. It's rock solid, and really quite easy to configure, even for a newbie video retard as myself. It does way more than I currently need, though I'm slowly gaining ground :)

So this just goes to show you, it's well worth it to buy from a dealer, but the aliens have put their time in to assure that anyone can be a nerdy video guru in no time!

Captain Zinc
02-18-2003, 08:23 AM
I don't know if I have enough room in my apartment for everyone, but if for some reason everyone manages to get up to New York at the same time, we can figure out something.

Rich Deustachio
02-18-2003, 01:49 PM
If you are in NY city, you are very close to VartoTechnologies. They are NewTek dealers and if you need more information on the Toaster, go see them and they will answer all your question and give you a demo.

mann1970
02-18-2003, 04:40 PM
I bought my system from Louie at Computer Connection in Stockton, CA. Great guy to work with..reasonable price with excellent support. They deliverd the system and gave few hours of training..it can't get any better then this. VT2 is working great! Our quality of the program has gone way up.

Gary

Alamovideo
02-18-2003, 10:13 PM
I don't work there, although I did. Got laid off, but love these folks. One of my most fun times is editing with the T[2] using TED, AURA, LW and CG.

Based on your posts, you should definitely contact one of the many incredibly qualified dealers. I’ve know several of these men and women personally and they work their buts off for their customers and ongoing clients.

I built my own system which at the time cost well over $4,500. Building a home for the Toaster is not for the light hearted.

About that worthless piece of crap avid comment. . . What a piece of total crap the avid is! From time to time I train people on the Toaster, some have used the avid... they don’t know why they did. Besides lacking many standard features of the T[2] for live production (which wasn’t listed above in the four other MAIN features of the Toaster) where else can you get so many options in edit views. Or HAVE SO MUCH FUN IN PRODUCTION!!!!!

Pt 1

Alamovideo
02-18-2003, 10:14 PM
Pt 2

Oh yeah, you mentioned that length of time in business thing. I have an Amiga Toaster 3 feet away from me that I still use on occasion. Bought it in 1990... IF it craps out, I can send it in to NewTek and good ol’ Gary Penn will fix it and send it back without a bill (ie, money owed). Know any other company with that attitude? Hmmmmmmm? Well, you can thank the founder of “Desktop Publishing” Tim “The Customers are Gods” Jenison for that little quirk of NewTek.

Sorry guy, I don’t have time for this much input, but I just couldn’t resist. You have found the “Holy Grail” of video - multimedia - broadcast - webcast all in a box tool and WHY are you waiting? Community support, do it yourself (if you dare we don’t care, but we still help and happily so)

Get the damn Toaster!!!!!!!!

Greg

wyoming22
02-19-2003, 11:12 AM
Well, Captain Zinc...I too, had some reservations about going through a dealer, thinking I was getting ripped off...man, was I wrong! After a couple of initial rough spots, my dealer in Atlanta got both of my Toasters running smoothly...I have been using both of them for 6 months now and neither one has crashed a single time...he has gone way the heck out of his way to make me happy...when I read in these forums about how much trouble do-it-yourselfers have had, I really appreciate the folks at ACS Video in Atlanta...Ray, Bruce and Faraz have never hesitated to answer any question I might have...the couple of times that none of them were available, I called another dealer in another state and although I had never done any business with him, he was more than happy to answer my questions...now, maybe you have had difficulties in working with dealers for other products but I'm here to tell you that these Newtek dealers are a different breed...
don't knock 'em til you've tried 'em....

wyoming22
02-19-2003, 11:18 AM
Well, Captain Zinc...I too, had some reservations about going through a dealer, thinking I was getting ripped off...man, was I wrong! After a couple of initial rough spots, my dealer in Atlanta got both of my Toasters running smoothly...I have been using both of them for 6 months now and neither one has crashed a single time...he has gone way the heck out of his way to make me happy...when I read in these forums about how much trouble do-it-yourselfers have had, I really appreciate the folks at ACS Video in Atlanta...Ray, Bruce and Faraz have never hesitated to answer any question I might have...the couple of times that none of them were available, I called another dealer in another state and although I had never done any business with him, he was more than happy to answer my questions...now, maybe you have had difficulties in working with dealers for other products but I'm here to tell you that these Newtek dealers are a different breed...
don't knock 'em til you've tried 'em....

Blaine Holm
06-02-2003, 01:50 PM
Thanks Steve...

Hey Captian Zinc....

No one is stopping you from puchasing yourself and installing it yourself. You will get help on this board with problems you may get.

You can buy direct.

But, why would you when you can save money from a dealer, because NewTek sells at list and most dealers sell below list.

Personally, after your post, I'd tell you to go direct.

Captain Zinc
06-02-2003, 03:00 PM
Now that I've spoken with a couple of dealers, I'll have
to agree. They have been VERY knowledgable and
there are so many partiuclars in this area.

Blaine Holm
06-02-2003, 03:08 PM
Thanks for allowing the dealers to change your views!

The Newtek community of users and dealers is really something no other platform offers.