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View Full Version : HDV on VT4????



KenBennett
02-21-2006, 03:22 PM
Does anybody know what NewTek is doing about moving into HDV production on VT4x? I see more and more other NLE systems offering HD editing. I know clients aren't asking for HD in high volumes right now, since we can't deliver HD in either of the new batteling DVD formats (I vote for Blu-Ray). But they will by 2007.

We can shoot in HDV right now, we just can't edit in HD using the VT, yet.

Can we expect this to be a hardware upgrade or software upgrade?

We are still in the "wait-and-see" mode as far as purchasing any new HD cameras.

Thanks for any poop!

KSTAR
02-21-2006, 05:03 PM
Just do a couple of creative searches in the forums. This is a hot topic so plenty of threads on this subject. Also take a wait and see since NAB is coming up. Many of us are hoping some news or some product will be announced there :)

ScorpioProd
02-21-2006, 05:25 PM
Gotta wait for NAB, as we know, Newtek believes in not talking about such things ahead of time.

Though frankly, I think we are the only NLE left that doesn't support HDV yet.

Ivan
02-22-2006, 07:27 AM
Though frankly, I think we are the only NLE left that doesn't support HDV yet.


That's not true, the Flyer doesn't and neither does... well I guess that's the only other one.

Ivan

Jim_C
02-22-2006, 08:08 AM
That's not true, the Flyer doesn't and neither does... well I guess that's the only other one.


Windows Movie Maker doesn't either. :D

Although it does do HD-WMV :(

Jim Capillo
02-22-2006, 08:45 AM
That's not true, the Flyer doesn't and neither does... well I guess that's the only other one.

Ivan

I'm sure he meant NLE's in current production......:boogiedow

billmi
02-22-2006, 09:25 AM
Isn't that comparing apples to oranges?
How many other production switchers edit video at all, let alone HDV?

I would expect - considering that NewTek has openly asked for folks with DVCPRO HD to help with testing, that a new HD solution isn't that far off - at least from the public demo level.

Jim_C
02-22-2006, 09:30 AM
C'mon Bill, you know WE are just razzing..... :D

And it's more like Apples, dried plums, and grapes..... :beerchug:


Jim

Cineman
02-22-2006, 10:19 AM
Would you be referring to sour grapes, or just grapes, in general? :D

Nes Gurley

Jim_C
02-22-2006, 10:36 AM
In this instance... just general. :thumbsup:

ScorpioProd
02-22-2006, 02:19 PM
Isn't that comparing apples to oranges?
How many other production switchers edit video at all, let alone HDV?

I would expect - considering that NewTek has openly asked for folks with DVCPRO HD to help with testing, that a new HD solution isn't that far off - at least from the public demo level.

And how many of us here need the HDV for live switching? We need it for EDITING.

A public demo does not a product in the studio make.

NAB will be interesting.

PeteF
02-22-2006, 08:30 PM
I won't need HDV right now, as it's late and I'm too tired to edit. But tommorrow... :)

I think for the most part that capturing in HDV and having the material on file is the #1 priority. The HD recorders won't be ready till years end anyhow. I know I've said that I cannot wait, but the reality is, after much research, I have a lot of work to do before intergrating HDV into my workflow. If NT pulls this off at NAB, then I'll be ready for it.

Cineman
02-23-2006, 08:00 AM
If churches went to HDV it would be first for live switching.

Probably, it would be better stated that if churches went to 16x9, it would be for better phraseolgy of song lyric keys on wide screen. The cameras to support the screen would then follow.

John Perkins
02-23-2006, 10:57 AM
I've just got to give Nes credit for using "phraseolgy" in a sentence.:thumbsup:

As for the rest of the thread, I think we are in good shape. We'll still be far ahead of a delivery format if that EVER arrives. Even then we'll all be lucky if we can see it in full resolution without buying a new TV with the correct DRM restrictions.

Yes, I'm a BIG fan of movie studios and their never ending delay of restricted home HD. :devil:

Jim_C
02-23-2006, 11:10 AM
Even then we'll all be lucky if we can see it in full resolution without buying a new TV with the correct DRM restrictions.


Now THAT deserves a :devil: ! Double :devil: :devil:

Cineman
02-23-2006, 12:12 PM
As for "phraseolgy", since it so often seems to convey exactly what I'm trying to express, and evidently isn't a word, I thought of copy righting it. But since that is restrictive, I'll just go with having coined the expression. Hope that it expresses as well for others.

As for HD TVs, it is projection for church services. But you could be right in that home HD will actually drive churches to move to wide screen projection display.

David
02-24-2006, 02:30 AM
"Content Restriction Annulment and Protection. CRAP technology (aka DRM)":lol:

http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/index.php?cat=35

"High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection (HDCP). Developed by Intel, the technology provides a two-part cryptographic scheme to control video transmission and delivery at the very end of the video display process.":mad:

http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/hardware/hdcp-vista.ars

"One of the more touchy subjects crowding my inbox lately relates to how Windows Vista will fail to render High Definition video in "pure" High Definition on most existing monitors."

Very Interesting Reading in the links "above!

Liber777
02-24-2006, 08:37 AM
Yes, I'm a BIG fan of movie studios and their never ending delay of restricted home HD. :devil:

You bet! The really great thing is that the analog component outs on the HD-DVD and Blue-Ray players is expected to down-rez the HD video to 480 lines, so that you can only get HD through the digital rights managed pipeline. Go, major studios...*!*

I'm preferring HD-DVD to Blue-Ray so far. The Blue-Ray camp is sticking to MPEG-2 for their video compression. ugh.

~Stivan, whose natural hair colour is purple...

John Perkins
02-24-2006, 11:59 AM
The other side of the compression coin is that MPEG2 takes less CPU to decode.

So you can have a cheaper, cooler, longer lasting player than one that has to decode windows media or MPEG4. A lot of decent computers won't even play HD WMV files without dropping frames, so the decoding isn't easy. (read as: $$$)

The other thing is that an MPEG2 file can look just as good as MPEG4 or better, but not at the same bitrate. Given a huge storage medium, squashing to a low bitrate doesn't help anything unless you want 10 episodes on one disk. Look at HDV, compressed WAY down for no reason. They could have upped the bitrate, but didn't.

I'm not biased either way. I dislike them both equally ;)

ScorpioProd
02-24-2006, 01:03 PM
Look at HDV, compressed WAY down for no reason. They could have upped the bitrate, but didn't.
No reason? You have a better way to fit HD res video on miniDV tape?

Zane Condren
02-24-2006, 01:09 PM
I have always wondered why they didn't use full size DV tape, which you can get in sizes up to 274 minutes of sp recording time and use 75mbs or 50mbs encoding. To me that would make more sense then trying to squeeze an hours worth of 1080i on a 60 minute SD DV tape.

Liber777
02-24-2006, 02:53 PM
I have always wondered why they didn't use full size DV tape, which you can get in sizes up to 274 minutes of sp recording time and use 75mbs or 50mbs encoding. To me that would make more sense then trying to squeeze an hours worth of 1080i on a 60 minute SD DV tape.

Exactly. Love the GY-DV5000 and DV5100 cameras for that reason. And NewTek's NT25 codec is proof that a better colourspace could have been incorporated as well. From what I've read on these forums, it already supports HD resolutions.

...Stivan!

ScorpioProd
02-24-2006, 03:00 PM
But NT25 would take RTV data rates to support HD resolutions.

As for why miniDV, the answers are simple:

1) Ubiquitous existing format.
2) Cheaper to make the smaller camcorders. (This is what the manufacturers insist when I ask them why they did something that stupid.)
3) Protects their higher-end products.

jcupp
02-24-2006, 05:03 PM
Most churches (that are doing live switching) already have projectors that can do higher than SD resolution so for them HD switching for IMAG would be a natural progression.

eon5
02-25-2006, 06:16 AM
I need HDV for EDITING...

im thinking seriously to switch product... with less liveswitch & less realtime, ok. But with more NLE features...

radams
02-25-2006, 06:33 AM
Hi eon5,

NAB is just around the corner...I would wait to see what that will bring to check out ALL the options...and who knows NT may show something that might help do what you want...

As you know they don't talk about what they don't have ready...and you know they haven't just been sitting around :)


Now again when it comes to HD or HDV...it is now not the aquisition, or editing side that are the big issues...it is on the finish and distribution side of things that is still holding ALL the HD formats from mainstream. How & what do you plan to MASTER to?

Good Luck in what ever you do .

Cheers,

ScorpioProd
02-25-2006, 11:54 AM
I need HDV for EDITING...

im thinking seriously to switch product... with less liveswitch & less realtime, ok. But with more NLE features...

It is safe to assume that the competition has less live switching abilities, but it is NOT safe to assume that the competition has less real-time playback abilities.