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unyun
05-17-2003, 07:30 AM
i've had problems with VT recognizing my SX8 intermittently but at times it does work. here's what i've found...

i actually have to fully shut down my machine (NOT a restart) TWICE or sometimes THREE TIMES before the SX8 will properly send video AND audio to the toaster

it seems critical that i allow the machine's capacitors to FULLY DISCHARGE before restarting XP. And then i have to wait until XP is completely finished booting (drives are not being accessed) before launching VT[2] or i won't get video (or sometimes audio)

i am using Y/C inputs on the SX8
also using audio inputs 3,4,5
i'm running XP Pro

if i follow this procedure VT[2] works flawlessly
until i shut down again in which case i may have to follow the same shut down/start up procedure again.

i'm willing to do this, but ideally i'd like it to work every time...

anyone else noticing this??
mark

Rich Deustachio
05-17-2003, 12:02 PM
I have the same problem once in a while. It seems to be related to NewTeks winrtme file. If you shut winrtme before rebooting the computer it will recognize the SX8. Seems to me this started at aroud the time build 2881 came out and has been there ever since. I don't think if you use windows XP the VT2/3 needs to run this program I could be wrong.

James Moore
05-18-2003, 11:46 AM
If you simply close the toaster, use the task manager to kill winrtme (cntl alt delete) under the process tab, then restart the toaster it will probably see your SX8 just fine

Gordon
05-19-2003, 12:26 AM
Yes, this happens with some motherboards. It's a timing thing between the VT + SX-8 and PCI, I think. NT optimized VT timing and shaved a frame off the latency which is very important for live production. The downside is that some motherboards, VT and SX-8 have a problem starting up sometimes. (Very intermitent, I might add).

However, I have found that killing WinRTME and restarting the Toaster never works for my customers. If it was not recognized at bootup during the hardware intialization then there is no chance of the software triggering it to restart.

You are correct in that it seems to have a better change of succeeding if all power has been removed, either unplug or turn the switch off on the power supply, not just the front of the computer. Warm reboots do seem to work almost as often however.

There is a short cut that for sure tells you if VT will work once Windows is loaded. The occurs right at boot up during the POST, (power on self test), phase. Here is what to do:
1. Have a monitor connected to a VCR that will output a blue screen when a valid signal is not present.
2. Connect one of the outputs on the SX-8 to the input of that VCR and have the VCR and monitor turned on.
3. Turn all power off on the computer. This should generate a blue screen on the VCR monitor.
4. During the POST watch this monitor. If the the blue screen is NOT replaced with a 'static' image then don't bother going through the Windows load. Press 'F8' to get the the Windows advanced options screen and reset, (warm boot or cold boot), the machine.

Generally about two or three warm boots and the VT card will init properly, (you will see the blue replaced with static and then black), and from that point on the software will work.

ted
05-19-2003, 01:24 AM
I've been having this from the beginning. I'm using a SuperMicro Board.
I don't get anything like this on the two systems that don't have a BOB, both also have SuperMicro Boards.
I'm hoping NewTek can resolve this someday.

Gordon
05-19-2003, 09:20 AM
Ted:
If I remember correctly, the recognition of the SX-8 on boot up was more of an issue after the timing was tightened. I think this was a year ago. However, as we do live production and will show the image magnified on a big screen, and with the projector adding another 2 frames, we were willing to put up with the problem in order to lose some of the delay on the Toaster end. NT said that the release shaved off a frame but it seems more like two frames to me.

However, not everyone is doing live production with ImageMag. Therefore, I wonder how many would prefer the old way?

I sympathize with the developers because this really is a puzzle. It can work without problem for several boots in a row and then one day, for no apparent reason, it seems like it will never come up. (However, now that I discovered the secret mentioned in the above post - it is quite tolerable.)

I just remembered another thing. We beefed up the power supply in the system, which also helped, (but NOT solved), the reliability a bit.

I wonder how diverse this list is of motherboards that this happens on? Supermicro, ASUS, MSI - any others that people are having a problem with?

Is anybody using the SX-8 and NOT having this trouble? Is so, what motherboard, memory size and type, and what power supply are you using?

Gord

Timing is everything!

ted
05-19-2003, 10:07 AM
Even though I don't use VT for live production, I'd vote for fewer delayed frames first. I'm sure it is more important then a reboot every few mornings.

Still hoping NT can resolve it though.

RayLarson
05-19-2003, 01:10 PM
Here's my method.

I start the computer up in the morning with the speakers on. When I hear a "snap" in the speakers (not a dangerous spike, but a indication that signal is going to the speakers from the SX-8) I know I am all set (or if I am laying on the floor, which I do often after a late edit session, I can see the red led on channel 1.

If these indications don't happen, I run wintime again until they do. Usually this happens to me one out of every 5 times I boot up. I am running a SuperMicro MoBo with 1gig ram and Dual 1.8 Xenons.

Knowing the workaround makes it just annoying..(like the quirks of the Toaster CG).

unyun
06-01-2003, 08:42 PM
gordon -
you are quite right
killing winrtme does not fix the problem at all
either the blue screen on my tv monitor (an output from the sx8), or the speaker snap mentioned by ray seem to give an earlier warning. the speaker snap seems a bit extreme, however (what causes this snap - seems like quite a dc jolt to my sound system)
so, i prefer the bluescreen warning...

will VT[3] fix this?
thanks, guys
mark

Gordon
06-01-2003, 09:08 PM
For the last 10 or so starts using 3890, I have not had a single problem! I also moved the VT card into a different slot and this seems to help a bit. So here is what I have tried so far and it seems to be quite a bit better.

1. New larger more reliable power supply. I would recommend the Antec True Power 550 EPS12V.

2. Changing the VT card to a different PCI slot - I moved it a couple down.

3. Running version 3890 software.

Don't know about VT[3] adding more reliability, furthermore it will be hard to tell because it has been pretty reliable for a couple weeks now.

James Moore
06-02-2003, 09:01 AM
I used to have this kind of problem back on VT1, the toaster card wouldn't even post, I found that the toaster liked to have a specific irq assigned. I was using 3 or 11 (I think) OS was NT and if I had trouble starting then I would manually change the irq setting for that slot the toaster was in. I don't think you can do this in Win2k and I haven't had a problem in my Dell 530 machine. The problem used to occur on ABIT board I believe.

Pete Draves
06-02-2003, 12:53 PM
I have an intermittant problem with the booting of the system from cold start.

No BOB!

I have a shortcut for "kill EinTime.exe" and a shortcut for "RTME.exe on the desktop

first kill "wintime" then run "RTME" you will probably have to run it twice as the first time it will just flash.

It should detect the bob and load the software.
To quit RTME you must type "quit" and hit enter

This works on my system and all the others that we have set up.
Pete

RayLarson
06-02-2003, 02:41 PM
Basically, Pete that is what we do. Seems to work for us too. Just an annoyance.....one I will gladly put up with to do things in real time.

eon5
07-17-2003, 11:50 AM
same problem here :(

Im tried all the steps, but doesnt work.

Any another help is welcome.

Gordon
07-17-2003, 12:07 PM
If you are saying that even after a few cold boots, (including unplugging the power cord from the computer for 30 seconds), you still don't get the SX-8 to initialize then you may have a hardware problem with a.) the SX-8 daughter card or b.) possibly even the SX-8 itself.

(You have checked that there is power to the daughter card - using the four pin floppy power connector - right?)

.

eon5
07-17-2003, 02:03 PM
yep

It can work without problem for several boots in a row and then one day, for no apparent reason, it seems like it will never come up.

VT recognizing my SX8, i have OuTput signal, but... i havent input signal: No Video Signal Present. (!?)

I have the 'virtual BOB' assigning inputs to the switcher, but a red LED NO LIT at input on the SX-8.

I test YC/Cp/Co inputs.

Gordon
07-17-2003, 02:17 PM
Don't forget to use the shortcut I mentioned at the top of this thread, (reproduced below). It shortens the reboot cycle from 90 seconds to 9 seconds. You will know if the Toaster is going to work right after the lights for the keyboard, (num lock, caps lock and scroll lock), are intialized. If the keyboard has initialized and the output monitor from the VCR is still blue - reboot immediately. If a couple warm boots don't do the trick then power off, unplug the computer from the wall outlet/power bar, wait 30 seconds, plug it back in and try again.

--

Here is a short cut that for sure tells you if VT will work once Windows is loaded. The occurs right at boot up during the POST, (power on self test), phase. Here is what to do:
1. Have a monitor connected to a VCR that will output a blue screen when a valid signal is NOT present. (Generally this is a choice is the VCR setup menus.)
2. Connect one of the outputs on the SX-8 to the input of that VCR and have the VCR and monitor turned on.
3. Turn all power off on the computer. This should generate a blue screen on the VCR monitor.
4. Start the computer.
5. During the POST watch this monitor. If the the blue screen is NOT replaced with a 'static' or black image by the time the keyboard is initialized, then don't bother going through the Windows load. Reboot immediately or power off, unplug, wait 30 seconds, plug it back in, and then restart.

Generally about two or three warm boots and the VT card will init properly, (you will see the blue replaced with static and then black), and from that point on the software will work.

unyun
07-17-2003, 05:34 PM
one other factor that i've found seems to be important:

all y/c input devices (cameras, e.g.) need to be powered ON before your computer is turned on. these devices must be ON before the sx8's power comes up.

also, on my system i need to shut down as opposed to reboot my computer. i also make sure the capacitors have fully discharged (e.g. by waiting about 30-40 seconds or dumping capacitors charge with the power switch on my cabinet).

mark

eon5
07-18-2003, 01:16 PM
W2K boot but SX8 led doesnt LIT.

so... go to /controlpanel>services>VIDEO TOASTER REAL TIME MEDIA ENGINE and STOP IT.

Then open VT... or type newtekrtme in cmd console.

VOILA! Tthe red led LIT and VT works fine.

I must do this EVERY TIME i power on the PC... this is real hassle!

any help is welcome :)

Gordon
08-10-2003, 11:00 PM
I have noticed a couple of improvements with VT3.

First - the computer seems to recognize the VT card much more reliably now! It is now rare that I don't get black output, (that replaces the blue video from the decks), from the VT card upon startup. This has been true for the last couple dozen boots.

The timing has been tightened even more! I'm fairly sure that it is down to 1 or 2 frames with non-genlocked video sources for a live switch. We just did a three day live via satelite, image mag leadership conference and put the satelite image through VT3 then to a 8000 ansi lumens projector, (cost as much as a small house - not counting lot), and the video lag was only about 100 milliseconds. (Video went through the VT3 but audio went straight to the delay box and into the FOH mixer). When we just sent the video to the projector without going through VT3 the delay was at least 50 milliseconds, so that puts the delay caused by VT3 at just under 2 frames.
That is amazing!:D

wuilly
08-22-2003, 02:41 PM
What wotk for me is to chage the power supply to at least 480 watts
or to remove a fan or a hard drive or another thing that uses the power from the power supply..

The Big Finn
08-23-2003, 06:16 AM
I've also had problems with VT recognizing my SX-8. In my case however the SX-8 is recognized fine when I boot up my computer (well at least most of the times), but sometimes the SX-8 just drops out in the middle of editing. No sound or video will come thru unless I reboot my computer. I bought the largest power supply I could get for this system so getting enough power shouldn't be a problem. Could it be the timing thing that Gordon tells about, I don't know... I know however that it's not a very nice problem to have. :( I've also got a few other problems with my VT system and to me it all seems that there are serious problems in the program itself. I hope these all will be history when I get my VT3 PAL version.

It seems like most of you use Supermicro motherboards. Mine is Tyan with i7505 chipset.

Gordon
08-25-2003, 09:14 AM
but sometimes the SX-8 just drops out in the middle of editing. No sound or video will come thru unless I reboot my computer.

Neither I, (nor any of my customers), have ever had this problem.

The only time I have lost sound is when I have started up an external program like a midi program, audio editing program, cd player or DVD player. However, in VT[3] this is handled better as well. Almost everything is showing up in the VT[3] audio mixer. So if you thing you have lost sound - open the audio mixer and check.