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dablan
02-21-2006, 12:47 PM
Hey all -
I'm happy to report that LightWave installs and runs just fine on an Intel Mac. As a matter of fact, there was not one hiccup in the process, not with the dongle installation, software, or registration. I have a Macbook Pro, with 2Gigs of RAM and can't really tell the difference between this and the Powerbook when running LightWave. But, renders are faster. I'm sure once NewTek gets their Universal version out the door we'll really notice the difference.

Hope that helps anyone worried about the transition.

:Tricaster

Captain Obvious
02-21-2006, 02:42 PM
Are you absolutely entirely sure about this? :eek:

Post some benchmarks, or I won't believe you! Render the Cornell box benchmark on both your PowerBook and your Macbook Pro!

dablan
02-21-2006, 02:48 PM
Sure about it working? Yes. I just installed 8.0 on a macbook pro. Upgraded to 8.5 all without issue.

I'll get some render tests together soon. Powerbook is gone - but I can setup some renders regardless.

Captain Obvious
02-21-2006, 02:54 PM
Looking at this page (http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2685&p=15), it seems a Core Duo at 1.83GHz would be a bit faster than a single 1.5GHz G4 at Cinema 4D rendering, even in Rosetta. That is fairly impressive. It would be interesting to see how Lightwave's renderer is affected. So please, post some benchmarks so we can see for ourselves! ;)


How do you feel about the viewport performance?

Scott_Blinn
02-21-2006, 02:59 PM
Sure about it working? Yes. I just installed 8.0 on a macbook pro. Upgraded to 8.5 all without issue.

I'll get some render tests together soon. Powerbook is gone - but I can setup some renders regardless.

I have a 1.67Ghz 15" G4 Powerbook and will render the scene with 8.5 for ya.

Scott_Blinn
02-21-2006, 04:35 PM
Here ya go- I just ran LW, loaded Radiosity_BOX.lws and pressed F9. Didn't change any settings at all.

Powerbook
OSX 10.4.5
1.67 Ghz G4
1 GB DDR SDRAM

Render Time: 1h 1m 7s (3667.6 seconds)

dablan
02-21-2006, 08:39 PM
Good to know Scott -
I had a Powerbook G4, 1.67 - so that's the one test.

I'll render out the same scene shortly on the 2.0 Intel Macbook.
Hang tight...

dablan
02-22-2006, 07:51 PM
Ok, after a full day with the Intel Macbook, I have to say it's pretty zippy. General working is very quick, such as mail, browsing the web, jumping between multiple programs which I do constantly. Photoshop loaded just fine, and frankly, runs no different. I'm not creating movie posters with dozens upon dozens of layers mind you, I use PS for texture creation, photo editing, etc. (CS2, btw).

As for LightWave, it runs great. I think the 256MB video really helps it, even though it's an ATI card. I don't see any lag in working. Rendering, some things rendered faster than my powerbook. Some things... not all.
The scene Scott listed on his Powerbook is about the same on this 2.0 Intel Macbook:

Macbook Pro
OSX 10.4.5
2.0 Ghz Core Duo
2 GB RAM
Render Time: 58m 9s

I did some other tests, and had longer times if I was working in the background - but unlike the Powerbook, I was able to work and forgot I was rendering. On the Powerbook, when rendering, I pretty much had to not work on anything else.

I'm sure certain tasks will run slower on this under Rosetta than others. I'm looking forward to a Universal version of LightWave.

jeremyhardin
02-22-2006, 08:00 PM
Good to hear, Dan. Thanks for the 'review' of sorts for how well it performs for the tasks we do regularly. :thumbsup:

It's a shame we never heard anything definitive like this directly from Newtek. Nonetheless... :rolleyes:

dablan
02-23-2006, 09:05 PM
Hi Jeremy,
actually, I think Chuckles posted something over on spinquad or somewhere about it.

NewTek hasn't let us down. I'm sure once development on 9 is finished, a Universal version is next.

As my third day nears an end with this Macbook - there are a few little annoyances of things not running. Azureus for bittorrent didn't run, not even under Rosetta. Within two minutes, I found a fix on the net. Runs great.
Another... Apple included a universal flash player for web browsers. But, installing my macromedia studio software (which runs great, btw) it overrode the existing plug-ins. Therefore, no flash player. Within a few minutes, sure enough, I found the fix on one of the Apple forums.

So, it seems that the user base has really got this transition nailed down. And mostly, 99% of the work I do on this is not affected at all.

More to come....

mattclary
02-24-2006, 08:05 AM
The CoreDuo is dual core, right? The G4 is not a dual CPU machine, right?

Dan, did you have the render set to use two or more threads?

Those times look a little too similar to me.

Captain Obvious
02-24-2006, 08:16 AM
As my third day nears an end with this Macbook - there are a few little annoyances of things not running. Azureus for bittorrent didn't run, not even under Rosetta. Within two minutes, I found a fix on the net. Runs great.
Rosetta won't run compiled Java applications, as far as I know. Azureus is probably one of them.



Matt:
Yes, the Core Duo is dual-core. Higher clock frequency and an extra core makes it a lot faster than the G4. Rosetta is kind of like emulation, however, and quite slow, so it brings it back down to the same speed. Still, that's REALLY impressive. Worlds beyond anything Virtual PC could do.

mattclary
02-24-2006, 08:27 AM
OK, didn't realize it was running in emulation. :thumbsup:

dablan
02-24-2006, 09:33 AM
DOH! Forgot about setting multithreading. I'm curious....

Scott_Blinn
02-24-2006, 09:37 AM
DOH! Forgot about setting multithreading. I'm curious....

That should really help things. I was wondering why you said it was easy to work on other things while render. You must have had an idle CPU. :-)

Captain Obvious
02-24-2006, 09:53 AM
DOH! Forgot about setting multithreading. I'm curious....
You mean it was that fast when rendering with just one core? :eek:

mattclary
02-24-2006, 09:55 AM
Holy cr*p. Impressive.

dablan
02-24-2006, 10:16 AM
Seems that way - but I don't trust it.
Another render showed 1h, 16m.

I'm doing a 2 thread render now.
I'll try a single, 4, and 8 as well.

The biggest thing I notice, even with 2 threads going is that my other work (such as this forum) and email, docs, all run and I can't tell that I'm rendering. I've never been able to work like that on any system, pc, mac, laptop, workstation, etc. That's interesting.

Working around LW is zippy. Not what you'd expect in emulation. So if a little render time suffers, so be it. I don't render on this (for projects) anyway.

Another thing I tested was screen recording for tutorials. Worked great. On the powerbook, the audio lagged behind the video, forcing all training videos to be pc based. The macbook changes that. :)

Scott_Blinn
02-24-2006, 11:32 AM
Hmm, that is very strange (no improvment with >1 thread). I wonder if emmulation only uses one core for the emmulated app? Maybe the other core is reserved for the emmulator itself? Or maybe Rossetta is a single thread app and that "caps" emmulation of multithreaded apps?

In any event, sounds like a nice machine! Can't wait to see what happens once a universal binary is available! :-)

Thought: What if you ran two copies of LW at once and rendered a frame with each at the same time? hehe

TheDynamo
02-24-2006, 11:52 AM
So far my aperture for buying a system remains in Fall '06, the ol Athlon 3000XP is a good workhorse but it's starting to show it's age in LW and After Effects. I'm still leaning towards an AMD X2 system at the moment.

Although I think the wife will notice the subtle things on our upcoming honeymoon due to budget "adjustments" so I can buy a Macbook.

Things like:

"I'm sure the Motel 6 in Honolulu is MUCH more luxurious as the ones on the mainland"

and:

"Look honey! A McDonalds! I bet local food tastes terrible and is LOADED with seafood." (inside joke, she HATES seafood)

-Dyn

dablan
02-24-2006, 12:24 PM
1h 28m with 2 threads!

mattclary
02-24-2006, 01:05 PM
I wonder if emmulation only uses one core for the emmulated app?

I bet that is the case based on his outcome with two threads.

So, is native support for the Intel Macs going to be in 9?

jeremyhardin
02-24-2006, 01:09 PM
I bet that is the case based on his outcome with two threads.

So, is native support for the Intel Macs going to be in 9?

Agreed. and as to native support, Newtek says no to 9.0 native support and 'when it's done' as to when it will be native. No 9.x or 10.0 or 10.x, etc. specifics have been given.

dablan
02-24-2006, 01:22 PM
That would make sense. But as I mentioned, unlike any other system, I'm able to work in other apps and have forgotten that I'm rendering. Good news is that we were all worried about LW even installing and running on an Intel Mac. Now we're just worried about faster render times.

jeremyhardin
02-24-2006, 01:24 PM
That would make sense. But as I mentioned, unlike any other system, I'm able to work in other apps and have forgotten that I'm rendering. Good news is that we were all worried about LW even installing and running on an Intel Mac. Now we're just worried about faster render times.
Too true, too true.

mattclary
02-24-2006, 01:30 PM
I'm able to work in other apps and have forgotten that I'm rendering.

That is another indication it is only using one core, especially if you see that when using two threads. You have a whole core dedicated to doing other stuff.

HeII, with that (single threaded) render time, sounds like a pretty good deal.

Captain Obvious
02-24-2006, 01:59 PM
Try running Lightwave for Windows in Virtual PC on a PowerPC Mac and see how good performance you get... ;) Seriously, I was expecting Lightwave to either not run or to be a slouch in Rosetta. Good to see that's not exactly the case. :) It doesn't seem like an option for actual heavy-duty work just yet, but yet, it's as fast as the previous model at the rendering, and it lets you work well while it's at it. No reason to complain! ;)

dablan
02-24-2006, 02:34 PM
8 threads -
1h 13m

Kuzey
02-24-2006, 04:56 PM
That's great news, have you tried the beta..does that work :D

Also, did you try a render without running other apps :D :D


Kuzey

dablan
02-24-2006, 08:11 PM
I'm going to be doing a lot more tests with other types of scenes, and comparisons to our main P4 machine. They'll all be done with LW 8.5.

nathan's dad
02-25-2006, 10:39 PM
Well I'm new to the Macs, Lightwave and the forum so be gentle. I'm trying to run the 8.5 Discovery and it wont start up. Here's the kicker.....it's an Intel Mac 17". I'm hoping I'm just a moron and don't know how to properly install or start it on a mac. The Maya PLE, Cinema 4D demo, and Modo demo all run fine. I'm thinking maybe something with the ser# or no dongle???????? Maybe someone has some ideas on what I can try. I really want to use Lightwave. I love the feel compared to the others (although Modo is nice, too) but it sucks I can't use it. Works great on my Smell PIII (I hate my Dell, or Winblows for that matter) but not on the Mac.:oye:

BazC
02-26-2006, 12:49 AM
I'm afraid I can't help much, it's nothing to do with Serial# or dongle, the Discovery edition doesn't ned either (in fact if I remove my dongle my full version runs as the Discovery edition) If it's installed I'd guess it's installed correctly. To start it just double click it's name or click it's dock icon, or you can probably right click and choose start from the right click menu (dunno I never tried that!)

I've heard that it will run on intel Macs too so I'm at a loss.
OK, first make sure it's installed in HD>Applications. You can install an app pretty much anywhere on OSX but some run best from the default location. Locate the applications Lightwave, Modeler and Hub all in Lightwave>Programs. Move Hub somewhere elseso that it won't start automatically. I think it's disabled in Discovery mode but It can cause problems on Mac so move it just in case. Make sure you're not selecting Lightwave cammandline (something like that - I'm not at my LW computer at the moment) or Modeler commandline. You want Lightwave and Modeler, find them and drag their icons to the Dock.

Now try and launch them from the Dock, what happens? Hopefully they'll launch now but if they don't you may get some clues about what's happening. If all else fails try reinstalling. - Baz

Verlon
02-26-2006, 05:23 AM
So you can now work on things while rendering (which you could not do before).....

does this mean I can expect Inside Lightwave 9 to arrive sooner??? :devil:

dablan
02-26-2006, 07:58 AM
Verlon - I have to finish the modo book first, then I'll be working on the Inside LW9 book. However, a bit of it is done already :) I plan to wrap by June. Book should be out before / at SIGGRAPH.

Nathan's Dad - where did you get the Discovery Edition of LW? How are you installing it? Can you list your procedures here of what you've done?

nathan's dad
02-26-2006, 08:58 AM
I installed it to the apps folder(default) and I've tried to move the modeler and layout icons to the dock and try it that way but all the little buggers do is bounce 2 or 3 times and then stop. Before I moved them to the dock, I double clicked them(and right click, start thinking that might work) from the apps/lightwave/programs folder and you see them show up on the dock, then disappear. When I installed, I just clicked on the cd icon and followed the instructions. I got the disk from Newtek (I love the demo DVD, cool stuff on there). How do you uninstall? I'm use to Windows where you have to either go to add/remove programs or put in the disk to uninstall. I just took the lightwave folder from apps and threw it in the trash and reinstalled. Lightwave still doesn't start up. Hope this triggers something for somebody. Thanks all.

nathan's dad
02-26-2006, 09:01 AM
Also the hub runs, the Modeler and Layout command lines run as well as LScripts.

cminshall
02-26-2006, 10:19 AM
You're missing the Eve3.framework in your system/Frameworks directory. Even though you are using the Discovery edition, I think it still checks for the dongle which that Eve3.framework software is required for. How did you install the discovery edition and where did you get it from?

Thanks,
Chris




I installed it to the apps folder(default) and I've tried to move the modeler and layout icons to the dock and try it that way but all the little buggers do is bounce 2 or 3 times and then stop. Before I moved them to the dock, I double clicked them(and right click, start thinking that might work) from the apps/lightwave/programs folder and you see them show up on the dock, then disappear. When I installed, I just clicked on the cd icon and followed the instructions. I got the disk from Newtek (I love the demo DVD, cool stuff on there). How do you uninstall? I'm use to Windows where you have to either go to add/remove programs or put in the disk to uninstall. I just took the lightwave folder from apps and threw it in the trash and reinstalled. Lightwave still doesn't start up. Hope this triggers something for somebody. Thanks all.

nathan's dad
02-26-2006, 10:41 AM
I got the cd from Newtek and the FAQ sheet they sent said I didn't have to install dongle drivers, but I did install the Eve3.framework according to the directions I believe after I tried it without....click on the dmg, then open the pkg and install. I'll give'er a shot again. To uninstall and reinstall, I just put the lightwave folder in the trash and empty it, right? Again, I'm new to the Mac, like 1 month new.

nathan's dad
02-26-2006, 02:41 PM
Well, I uninstalled Lightwave, removed the Eve3.framework, reinstalled Eve3, then installed Lightwave, then reinstalled Eve3 and BOOM.....it worked. I think that's what I did......Weird but ok. Thanks for all your help everyone.

randysolo
03-07-2006, 05:48 AM
Well Dan, I saw your original post at another 3D website and decided to check it out. I'm also glad to see LW working fine on an intel mac. BUT, I'm right at the crossroad, so to speak. I have a G4 Titanium that is about 5 years old and I want to get a new mac for travel. I want to order a G4 17" powerbook but I keep thinking about the Intel model. But the apps I use most aren't making any promises and I don't know weather they run at all or not. I also still need a few apps to run in Classic mode. (holding on!!) Since I read that you had a G4 17" powerbook, do you think I'd be wrong in getting one? At least until everyone else gets the graphics apps up and running decently - ie adobe, quark, etc. I might make a decision today to go with the G4 and stand back and look at what happens to the intel thing. I still have a G5 at work and a dual 800 G4 at home. I'm planning on making the switch at home in another year or so, when the desktops come out. I just think that Apple really knows how to make life uncomfortable. Not with choices but decisions!!
(not "this one or that one?", but "Do I or Don't I?") Any suggestions would be appreciated.

solo

dablan
03-07-2006, 08:00 AM
Hey solo,
well, that's entirely your call. You can get some good deals on the G4 Powerbooks right now. My partner bought mine as it was cheaper than getting a new Intel book. I took that sale and added to it to get the Macbook for me. It's important for my work to be current, especially with the new books and training I'm working on. The G4 Powerbook is proven, and you know the software you need will run on it. But as I've mentioned, I have no problems with the Macbook and software running. Sure, there's a few quirks with plug-ins like flash and schockwave, but that's quickly fixed once discovered.

Classic mode? Well, it might be time to move on. You need to get the 10.4 OS - it's smart and effecient, and runs better without the old baggage of OS9.

Good luck!

randysolo
03-07-2006, 08:28 AM
... thanks Dan!
oh!, love your book, write more! Could you send me an autograph for the one I have now..?

thanks,

solo!

dablan
03-07-2006, 08:34 AM
Ah, thanks a lot.

You can send me the book, I'll sign it and send it back if you want.

randysolo
03-07-2006, 12:45 PM
I bought a 17" powerbook. I thought "Well, this will be better than my old 15" and I can keep an eye on the progress of the intel laptops. I can get stuff done with the current model without having to explain why to my bosses... here and in Europe.

thanks for the help Dan!

solo

ACLOBO
03-07-2006, 04:34 PM
Dan seems to be really happy with the perfomance with his new machine and that is great. However, I remember blowing my friends minds when I used to render in lightwave on my Amiga while playing music, doing email and IRC at the same time.

Ahh... Amiga.... If only the world were just and right... We would all be using version 12 of lightwave on the Amiga right now....


-Adrian

dablan
03-07-2006, 07:29 PM
Randy, no problem!

Adrian, I still have my Amigas! Some a-hole once posted a review on Amazon that I'm a Mac hater and know nothing about LightWave on the Amiga. Hahahaa. That was classic.

I used the Amiga from 1989 with VT 1.0 and LW 1.0 up through about 1996 when everything was ported to the PC.... and, I was able to afford an upgrade :)
Go find any LightWave Pro magazine and you'll see a ton of my articles, all done on the Amiga. And check out the old Video Toaster User magazines - you'll find me in there doing LightWave articles, reviews, and the monthly "Dr. Toaster" column. Ugh..... don't tell anyone I told you that. :)

Ade
03-13-2006, 06:02 PM
I am getting huuge issues running the latest mac os on the latest intel "20 imac with 2 gigs ram and the latest lightwave with the latest Fprime.
Fprime either quits my lightwave or kernel panics my mac upon rendering.

One thing I feel it maybe is when you try older scenes they are made for PPC 64 bit sizes and panic when Fprime intel mac trys to render it?
I need a universal lightwave.

Scott_Blinn
03-13-2006, 06:23 PM
Dan seems to be really happy with the perfomance with his new machine and that is great. However, I remember blowing my friends minds when I used to render in lightwave on my Amiga while playing music, doing email and IRC at the same time.

Ahh... Amiga.... If only the world were just and right... We would all be using version 12 of lightwave on the Amiga right now....


-Adrian

Heh, nice. I have a total opposite memory involving lightwave rendering when I had my Amiga.

An old time Lightwaver and friend, Scott Wheeler, had just gotten LW for intel/windows when it was first ported from the Amiga. I went over to his place to check it out. He rendered a couple of standard lightwave scenes for me at blazing speeds that made my Amiga 4000 with an 040 warp engine look like it was asleep.

That was when I made the switch. Loved my Amigas though. They got me to where I am today really. :D

dablan
03-13-2006, 07:36 PM
Ade, I'm not getting any issues on the macbook pro, but I don't have fprime running on this dongle. I'll see if I can move things around and test it out too.